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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuuichi View Post
    I fully agree. It is ashamed at what happened but the swat responded as they are trained to do. The people who issued the warrent need to be brought forward as what evidence they had. It started with whoever thought they had drugs.

    I am willing bet that most of those swat guys feel bad for what happened. This is something they will carry with them forever. Not one of you including me will ever know how that feels.
    Exactly. I had an uncle that worked on a SWAT team. Danger close situations like this induce a certain amount of...anxiety in the team. If a gun is pointed at them, they kill.

    But their grunts, they have an exact mission directive, and they follow that order to the tee.
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  2. #27
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    This is so $#@!ed up. Either there's more to this than we know, or that SWAT team royally screwed up.

    Also, shot 71 times? That's ridiculous.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigCman123 View Post
    This is so $#@!ed up. Either there's more to this than we know, or that SWAT team royally screwed up.

    Also, shot 71 times? That's ridiculous.
    You're a liar if you said you would have gone in and done any different.

    Any person is that says that.
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    So anyone getting ready for revolution? I am.

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    The only thing I think SWAT did wrong was going in without identifying themselves. As for the shooting SWAT did the right thing. He came at them with an assault rifle, to SWAT it was kill or be killed. I'm positive he would have shot the same way if he was raiding a house in Iraq and someone came out pointing a assault rifle at them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Kwesnoth- View Post
    Exactly. I had an uncle that worked on a SWAT team. Danger close situations like this induce a certain amount of...anxiety in the team. If a gun is pointed at them, they kill.

    But their grunts, they have an exact mission directive, and they follow that order to the tee.
    Induce anxiety on a SWAT team? Are you f. kidding me? If they are so trigger happy and have "anxiety" they shouldn't be given the title Special Weapons and Tactics maybe special in a retarded way. They are trained to deal with volatile situations all the time. They are also taught to use nonlethal devices to help end situations without having to shoot anyone. Specially trained for far worse situations and you're saying that a team that's supposed to be an elite force, one of the toughest in law enfrocement had anxiety...yeah sure.



  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by vladTGS View Post
    Induce anxiety on a SWAT team? Are you f. kidding me? If they are so trigger happy and have "anxiety" they shouldn't be given the title Special Weapons and Tactics maybe special in a retarded way. They are trained to deal with volatile situations all the time. They are also taught to use nonlethal devices to help end situations without having to shoot anyone. Specially trained for far worse situations and you're saying that a team that's supposed to be an elite force, one of the toughest in law enfrocement had anxiety...yeah sure.
    How many times have you been shot at? How many SWAT team members do you know? To have anxiety and to be able to operate professionally with it are very different. Are you suggesting that just because a team is labeled as an elite force, that they don't still have fears, or emotions?

    Even green berats can be afraid.
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    Funny how the Swat team would have no non lethal options. Like a taser or beanbag rounds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    They had a warrant and served it by kicking in the door, lmao. Why didn't they bang on the door and surround the perimeter instead?

    The entire incident could have been avoided completely. A marine, who is geared towards military intelligence, isn't going to think he can fire his way out of a 12-1 battle -- especially with his family hiding in a closet and could be a victim of crossfire.

    The SWAT team is entirely to blame for his death in this situation.
    Not quite. If a swat team kicked in my door, I sure as hell would point my ar at them. You have no idea what his mental state was. It is police training that if someone has a gun pointed at you, you then shoot to kill. The swat team will announce who they are and they have a police warrant.

    Could it have been handled better? Maybe. The details of the situation are scarce and based on a person who has the potential to make a lot of money in this situation. I am sorry for her loss, but for all we know her husband could be a drug runner. Being a veteran doesn't make him innocent.

  11. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post


    Funny how the Swat team would have no non lethal options. Like a taser or beanbag rounds.
    Not funny really if you think that in the mission brefieng based on what they felt it wasent an option and on drug raids, whuch is what this was, non lethal is never an option because of how dangerous it is.

    All those non lethal are mainly for riots.

    @Oatmeal: we don't know if they didn't identify themselves. They could have but he was so shocked with people burtsting in that he didn't hear them and went for gun.
    Last edited by Yuuichi; 09-01-2012 at 20:24.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuuichi View Post
    Not funny really if you think that in the mission brefieng based on what they felt it wasent an option and on drug raids, whuch is what this was, non lethal is never an option because of how dangerous it is.

    All those non lethal are mainly for riots.
    So what happens when they encounter people like his wife and son, do they get a bullet too? Don't give me that BS. Taser the guy first and then if he is still a threat, shoot him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    So what happens when they encounter people like his wife and son, do they get a bullet too? Don't give me that BS. Taser the guy first and then if he is still a threat, shoot him.
    They didn't shot them because they didn't have a gun. The only person feeding bs is you because you clearly know absolutly nothing about how mission brefings are done. Based on what info was given the team leader felt non lethal force was not an option. That is a $#@! up on who ever gave the leader information. And not you the guy behind you or that guy over there would ever pull out a taser when a gun is pointed at you. But please pick up your cross and say differently.
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  14. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuuichi View Post
    They didn't shot them because they didn't have a gun. The only person feeding bs is you because you clearly know absolutly nothing about how mission brefings are done. Based on what info was given the team leader felt non lethal force was not an option. That is a $#@! up on who ever gave the leader information. And not you the guy behind you or that guy over there would ever pull out a taser when a gun is pointed at you. But please pick up your cross and say differently.
    My point is did they expect to encounter only dangerous (possibly armed) individuals? If so then it makes sense to only have lethal force. But if they expected to encounter any individuals that were not armed (highly likely since it is a normal residential area) then it is inexcusable that they did not have a less lethal option.

    Also if they simply wanted to capture whoever was inside they could have smoked them out with tear gas.

    Keep on making excuses though, its the only way they will continue to get away with this $#@!.

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    They had to retract their statement that he shot first since the safety was on. They knew they had $#@!ed up.

    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    My point is did they expect to encounter only dangerous (possibly armed) individuals? If so then it makes sense to only have lethal force. But if they expected to encounter any individuals that were not armed (highly likely since it is a normal residential area) then it is inexcusable that they did not have a less lethal option.

    Also if they simply wanted to capture whoever was inside they could have smoked them out with tear gas.

    Keep on making excuses though, its the only way they will continue to get away with this $#@!.
    They probably knew he was armed if his guns were registered.

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  17. #40
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    ok every body is mentioning the swats training, but wasnt the guy a marine? i'm pretty sure he was also trained to protect himself, and seeing a bunch of ppl rush your house/apt and kick in the door, my first reaction would also be to protect my FAMILY! SUE!!!!

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    I think the fact they sent in the SWAT says they expected a fight.

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    I can't believe people are defending the murder. This is disgusting, may the guy rest in peace.
    What a shame, a married man with 2 young children, that defended his country twice gets shot 71 times, just for being suspected of using drugs he didn't consume or have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion View Post
    They had to retract their statement that he shot first since the safety was on. They knew they had $#@!ed up.



    They probably knew he was armed if his guns were registered.
    In AZ? 100% chance of that not being the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    I think the fact they sent in the SWAT says they expected a fight.
    Or you know because regular cops aren't trained for this sort of thing and they wouldn't want an even bigger $#@! up than what already happened.

  23. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    My point is did they expect to encounter only dangerous (possibly armed) individuals? If so then it makes sense to only have lethal force. But if they expected to encounter any individuals that were not armed (highly likely since it is a normal residential area) then it is inexcusable that they did not have a less lethal option.

    Also if they simply wanted to capture whoever was inside they could have smoked them out with tear gas.

    Keep on making excuses though, its the only way they will continue to get away with this $#@!.

    From what weapons they brought yes they expected to encounter only lethal force. That's why they didn't bring anything or go about it another way.

    It is not an excuse when it is a solid fact he pointed gun at them and they responded the same way you would. It is obviously they went in expecting lethal force and someone on the chain of command royaly $#@!ed up the information so everyone on the entire chain should be brought into question not just the swat. But politics is politics and the swat will bear the burden while the guys who feed info will go scoot free which is bull$#@! because again everyone on the chain should be investigated.

    Again this entire thing is tragedy and should never have happened. I do not think for one seconed the man is to blame, I think the swat was trigger happy but I know how they are trained which is why I can see why they opened fire. The main person to blame is the idiot who feed clearly wrong information and was able to get the warrent to send in swat. Agaian MAIN person not ONLY person.

    And if you think at least some of the swat members are not sorry for what happened and will be haunted by it your wrong. Your all painting them as evil devil because that's what people like to do. As if the cops are some inhuman monster with no feeling sent by hell to torment everyone. Making judgments not knowing a dam thing about everything what happend just what you guys read on the net which is mainly just $#@! you agree with to justify your thinking. Asking well why didn't they do blah blah blah, when you don't even know $#@! about their training, proceedure, what info they where given.


    This is just a waste of time. F the police is very cool and hip and they always do wrong and never good(not just this thread but I'm sick of seeing when I have proven you can find just as many stories about good copaas but they never popular). So I'm sure all you guys never ask the police for help ever because they are all so evil. Get over yourselves. I'm done with these threads. Same people always saying the cop is wrong with out knowing $#@!.


    Quote Originally Posted by YoungMullah88 View Post
    ok every body is mentioning the swats training, but wasnt the guy a marine? i'm pretty sure he was also trained to protect himself, and seeing a bunch of ppl rush your house/apt and kick in the door, my first reaction would also be to protect my FAMILY! SUE!!!!
    I think that would be everyones first reaction. The two things in question here that we will never know is.

    1. Did the team storm in and not say anything?
    2. Did they storm in say something but he was in shock and didn't hear them so he went for gun because he thought people where breaking in?
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    Ugh. Only in America would people defend the indefensible. The problem is that the whole operation was illegal as per the constitution. Nowhere on the document, are drugs deemed unconstitutional. Yeah. I challenge anyone to provide me with a link to a law that makes drugs illegal without violating the constitution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gangsta_795 View Post
    No marijuana was found on him or in his home.
    he was being sarcastic.



    Also if the guy thought he was being robbed isnt he entitled to raise his weapon ? I'm fairly certain you can kill somebody in the US for breaking and entering if you feel you or your family are threatened ?

    If they didn't identify themselves as police hes going to do what hes $#@!ing trained to do (and has every $#@!ing right to do)
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    I don't think there's necessarily a good guy and a bad guy in this situation, but damn did that SWAT team goof big time. That's like the Police Academy of SWAT teams.
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    Quote Originally Posted by squirrelbo1 View Post
    Also if the guy thought he was being robbed isnt he entitled to raise his weapon ? I'm fairly certain you can kill somebody in the US for breaking and entering if you feel you or your family are threatened ?
    That's considered as self defense, so yes you can.

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    I wonder who the Detective was on the case, I would like to see him make a statement on his poorly researched case.
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    http://reason.com/blog/2011/05/20/sh...ose-guerena-li

    But Michael Storie, the attorney for the SWAT officers, said the raid turned up rifles, hand guns, body armor and a piece of a “law enforcement uniform” inside Guerena’s house. (Guerena family attorney Christopher Scileppi, tells Echávarri none of the seized items were illegal.) From the Daily Star:
    “Everything they think they’re going to find in there they find,” said Storie in a news conference called a day after the Sheriff’s Department complained media reports on the incident spread misinformation and encouraged speculation about events surrounding the shooting…
    All statements made by Storie on Thursday morning came from the five SWAT officers he is representing, he said.
    The five officers had “no choice but to shoot” when they breached the front door of the house in the 7100 block of South Redwater Drive and saw Guerena holding a rifle, Storie said.
    The house was targeted as part of an investigation into home invasions and drug rip offs. The Guerena house was among homes that “were identified as locations where these activities were being carried out from.”
    Whole article. Storie has revived the detail that Guerena shouted “I’ve got something for you, I’ve got something for you guys” before he was shot (which Guerena's widow denies). He says that Guerena’s name was not in any of the search documents, and uses some intriguing phrasing to tell Echávarri that “if SWAT members had been let in to the home, those inside ‘probably they wouldn’t have been arrested.’”
    Kinda turns it around for this "innocent" marine don't ya think?
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