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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolguy View Post
    you know what would be cool if both consoles used the same gpu in the PS4 and 720.
    then all thrid party games will be even. and when it comes to frist party games this is where sony is the best,
    there frist party games look better then other consoles frist party games i hope they have a killzone 4 ready for the PS4 launch
    GPU is not the only deciding factor in terms of how things could look graphically.
    Memory sub systems, API and many other things can affect what is the most feasible way to do things.

    But yes, similar amount of power and programmability would be nice for Ps4 and Xbox3. (hopefully both will be beasts.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlippone View Post
    GPU is not the only deciding factor in terms of how things could look graphically.
    Memory sub systems, API and many other things can affect what is the most feasible way to do things.

    But yes, similar amount of power and programmability would be nice for Ps4 and Xbox3. (hopefully both will be beasts.)
    Rumours are suggesting ps4 to have a significantly beefy GPU compared to the 720
    1.8 Teraflops vs 1.2 Teraflops is a much bigger difference than this gen

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    Rumours are suggesting ps4 to have a significantly beefy GPU compared to the 720
    1.8 Teraflops vs 1.2 Teraflops is a much bigger difference than this gen
    Do you really think MS would let themselves be put at such a big disadvantage even for a 1yr headstart?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Do you really think MS would let themselves be put at such a big disadvantage even for a 1yr headstart?
    It makes sense for microsoft to cheap out of specs due the the intergrated kinect 2 processor costs

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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    It makes sense for microsoft to cheap out of specs due the the intergrated kinect 2 processor costs
    Again, do you really think they would make such a sacrifice just to have the kinect hardware in the console itself.

    MS is smart, they won't make any concessions.

    They will ensure their hardware is competitive and entice developers by assisting them with game development in various ways. They will also design their hardware in a way that allows them to make manufacturing improvements on a regular basis that allows them to save money and reach profitability on the hardware asap.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    Rumours are suggesting ps4 to have a significantly beefy GPU compared to the 720
    1.8 Teraflops vs 1.2 Teraflops is a much bigger difference than this gen
    2TF GPU from AMD isn't really beefy anymore and even less so when consoles are released.
    I would hope something around >~4 TF.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Again, do you really think they would make such a sacrifice just to have the kinect hardware in the console itself.

    MS is smart, they won't make any concessions.

    They will ensure their hardware is competitive and entice developers by assisting them with game development in various ways. They will also design their hardware in a way that allows them to make manufacturing improvements on a regular basis that allows them to save money and reach profitability on the hardware asap.


    i couldn't resist

    you can only go so far before you start cutting corners. im sure the $1Billion they spent for 256mb more ram led to corner cutting with original xbox's, which in turn led to the systems reliability.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlippone View Post
    2TF GPU from AMD isn't really beefy anymore and even less so when consoles are released.
    I would hope something around >~4 TF.
    the power is too damn high!

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    Well, this whole topic has been debunked. In case certain people aren't noticing, AMD appears it will be shrinking by up to 30% in just a short while. They haven't been in great shape for years but their tablet/smart phone GPU failed to meet expectations and has totally fallen by the wayside since last year. They knew that was the market but didn't live up to the fantasizing. Nvidia Tegra line is lapping that up.

    Now, Sea Islands is collapsing before it even launches. Launch has been delayed and the specs have been decreased, not a good sign there. There is almost zero chance that the 720 is going to have 8XXX, more like 7XXX+ at best.

    What is the latest on AMD’s Sea Islands?
    Not much new, not too exciting

    What is the latest on AMD’s Sea Islands (CI) line of GPUs? The short story is not much, it is pretty ho-hum.
    Sea Islands is not going to be a 2012 product, it is looking like a March 2013 release for now. Things could of course change, but that is unlikely given what the card is. CI is a 28nm evolution of the current 7xxx line of cards, think optimizations rather than massively new features.
    As far as performance goes, AMD was promising AIBs roughly a 30% speed boost from the new silicon a few months back. That we hear is fairly optimistic, with more measured sources saying +15% is more likely. AMD is power bound and die size equals cost, so what you are looking at is process improvements and algorithm optimizations rather than any new big bangs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bligmerk View Post
    Well, this whole topic has been debunked. In case certain people aren't noticing, AMD appears it will be shrinking by up to 30% in just a short while. They haven't been in great shape for years but their tablet/smart phone GPU failed to meet expectations and has totally fallen by the wayside since last year. They knew that was the market but didn't live up to the fantasizing. Nvidia Tegra line is lapping that up.

    Now, Sea Islands is collapsing before it even launches. Launch has been delayed and the specs have been decreased, not a good sign there. There is almost zero chance that the 720 is going to have 8XXX, more like 7XXX+ at best.
    Still doesn't mean that next gen consoles can't incorporate improvements made with the 8XXX gpu's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post


    i couldn't resist

    you can only go so far before you start cutting corners. im sure the $1Billion they spent for 256mb more ram led to corner cutting with original xbox's, which in turn led to the systems reliability.
    You do realize that issue affected the entire computer industry, right?

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    Sony and Microsoft are huge corporations. They buy millions of chips. They get discounts and they get technology that the normal customer doesn't get. They have tech that's way more advanced than current high-end PC's. Even if graphics card XYZ is released in fall 2013 (for example), Sony and Microsoft could've access to it right now. It takes a while to develop new tech and in this part of the hierarchy, business is done in a way very different from business like "person XYZ buys graphics card XYZ on launch".


    If Sony and MS don't put in near-high-end graphics chips into their consoles, the jump in graphics quality won't be as satisfying as it needs to be. Seriously, they need to put in stuff that kicks ass.

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  15. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    You do realize that issue affected the entire computer industry, right?
    it was merely a bit of tongue in cheek

    for arguments sake though; what affected the entire industry? there was quite a lot that happened as a result
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    is there a chance ps4 will be more powerful than contemporary top end pc's?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KungMartin90 View Post
    is there a chance ps4 will be more powerful than contemporary top end pc's?
    they'll have to be, or close to. otherwise they're obsolete upon release.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post
    it was merely a bit of tongue in cheek

    for arguments sake though; what affected the entire industry? there was quite a lot that happened as a result
    Lead free solder which affected computer gpu's (especially Nvidia) among other components in the same way.

    It also doesn't help that lead free solder devices tend to have more finite lifespans than their lead solder counterparts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Lead free solder which affected computer gpu's (especially Nvidia) among other components in the same way.

    It also doesn't help that lead free solder devices tend to have more finite lifespans than their lead solder counterparts.
    i will admit, this is did not know

    so was this the reason for the failures on early 360 models?
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  20. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post
    i will admit, this is did not know

    so was this the reason for the failures on early 360 models?
    For RROD issues.

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    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Teraflops dont really mean any thing the PS3 HAS MORE Teraflops then the 360. and games are pretty much look the same

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    Quote Originally Posted by coolguy View Post
    Teraflops dont really mean any thing the PS3 HAS MORE Gigaflops then the 360. and games are pretty much look the same
    Fixed
    Yeah they don't mean THAT much but they are a rough estimate of what to expect from a machine. CPU flop counts are pretty much useless though.
    Since floating point performance (FLOPS) is a theoretical measure it doesn't tell us anything out 'real world' performance and how actual software will run

  23. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolguy View Post
    Teraflops dont really mean any thing the PS3 HAS MORE Teraflops then the 360. and games are pretty much look the same
    The difference was on CPU, GPU was not up to par when compared to Xenos.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlippone View Post
    The difference was on CPU, GPU was not up to par when compared to Xenos.
    I disagree. I say it was the split with the RAM going half and half. Its not that the system didn't have enough RAM its because it had to vary between 700 Mhz RAM and 3.2 Ghz RAM in the system for PS3. Not only that, but to actually use the Cell's Gigaflops it required specialized coding that most just skipped over just to get a quick port out the door. Sony obviously didn't like that if they are going with x86 CPU this time around. Maybe two.

    I believe that both consoles will range from 3-4 Tflops at a minimum. Well from all the rumors and facts I find around. I say these are pretty close to what I suspect for PS4/XB3

    PS4: AMD Kaveri APUx2(1 Tflop each?) + GPU(Last rumor was around 1.84 Tflops so lets say AMD 7970M for now) = 3.84 up to 4.1 Tflops depending on if the AMD 7970M or whatever GPU is in there gets a boast to 2.1 Tflops or higher? AMD 8850(2.99 Tflops) possible? If so it could reach 5 Tflops or 4.99 Tflops. That or maybe another solution.

    Why would I say 2 Kaveri APUs? Well this is what I believe is to be in XB3. I say two because I expect them to match the core count if XB3 has 8 cores.

    Intel Haswell 8 core CPU(1 Tflop) + NVIDIA ARM APU(500-800 Gigaflops) + NVIDIA GPU(2.2 Tflops or more?) = 3.7-4.0 Tflops

    Just my two cents. Take it or leave it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyFire View Post
    I disagree. I say it was the split with the RAM going half and half. Its not that the system didn't have enough RAM its because it had to vary between 700 Mhz RAM and 3.2 Ghz RAM in the system for PS3. Not only that, but to actually use the Cell's Gigaflops it required specialized coding that most just skipped over just to get a quick port out the door. Sony obviously didn't like that if they are going with x86 CPU this time around. Maybe two.

    I believe that both consoles will range from 3-4 Tflops at a minimum. Well from all the rumors and facts I find around. I say these are pretty close to what I suspect for PS4/XB3

    PS4: AMD Kaveri APUx2(1 Tflop each?) + GPU(Last rumor was around 1.84 Tflops so lets say AMD 7970M for now) = 3.84 up to 4.1 Tflops depending on if the AMD 7970M or whatever GPU is in there gets a boast to 2.1 Tflops or higher? AMD 8850(2.99 Tflops) possible? If so it could reach 5 Tflops or 4.99 Tflops. That or maybe another solution.

    Why would I say 2 Kaveri APUs? Well this is what I believe is to be in XB3. I say two because I expect them to match the core count if XB3 has 8 cores.

    Intel Haswell 8 core CPU(1 Tflop) + NVIDIA ARM APU(500-800 Gigaflops) + NVIDIA GPU(2.2 Tflops or more?) = 3.7-4.0 Tflops

    Just my two cents. Take it or leave it.
    Do you realize how much a 3-4 TF machine would cost?

  26. #74
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    Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think it work by simply adding up each processors flops, just like SLI you do not gain another 100% in rendering power with each GPU that is added to the system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think it work by simply adding up each processors flops, just like SLI you do not gain another 100% in rendering power with each GPU that is added to the system.
    SLI has a huge amount of overhead that is absent from a closed environment. In a console you can have 2 GPUs working together to half the render times of a single GPU. It can also be more like using a separate card for physx and a separate card for rendering images.

    I may be wrong on this

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