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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeanutButterMunky View Post
    Not true. The PS4 will use a liquid nitrogen cooling system...









    ... if only.
    Yeah, love to see the product warnings on that.

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    if they would go with an AMD processor, Sony could be leaning more towards the Zambezi 6100 or the Vishera 4300 3.8GHz. either way with a little tweaking on either of those, they could last in console terms 6 years for the cpu that is.

    I doubt Sony will do with the 8000's. lol
    what about the GPU?
    Last edited by Bigdoggy; 12-10-2012 at 18:19.

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    The name of PS4 APU is 'Thebes' while durango's is 'Kryptos'
    http://semiaccurate.com/2012/12/10/c...s4-code-names/
    Last edited by Itachi; 12-11-2012 at 00:22.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    The name of PS4 APU is 'Thebes' while durango's is 'Kryptos'
    http://semiaccurate.com/2012/12/10/c...s4-code-names/
    Thebes, Orbis.......Egyptian uh? Thats interesting



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  5. #105
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    Insiders at GAf say that both MS and Sony will reveal their new console before E3 with one company revealing much earlier than the other

  6. #106
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    who the hell knows what they will do. lol for me it will come down to performance. if the PS4 is amazing performance wise, than I will get that.

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    So we seem set on the idea of an APU + a separate GPU. Sounds idealistic though I wouldn't put it past Sony to do such.


  8. #108
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    what is the benefit of a APU vs. CPU?

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdoggy View Post
    what is the benefit of a APU vs. CPU?
    less power and heat with more efficiency but actual computational power will be half as a good stand alone CPU

    I'm not sure about the heat part though
    Last edited by Itachi; 12-11-2012 at 03:00.

  10. #110
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    hmmm, I thought it was because there was greater communication between the GPU and CPU or something like that. while the communication is greater, the CPU separate from the GPU is so far ahead that for a PC gamer, getting an A10 APU isn't worth it. So if they are using an APU from the A10 line and want games to run 1080p60fps, it's obvious they are using a newer A10chip while being tweaked and beefed up. If the chip is cheap enough barebones, then they will definitely beef that sucker up to be a powerhouse for consoles at least.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdoggy View Post
    hmmm, I thought it was because there was greater communication between the GPU and CPU or something like that. while the communication is greater, the CPU separate from the GPU is so far ahead that for a PC gamer, getting an A10 APU isn't worth it. So if they are using an APU from the A10 line and want games to run 1080p60fps, it's obvious they are using a newer A10chip while being tweaked and beefed up. If the chip is cheap enough barebones, then they will definitely beef that sucker up to be a powerhouse for consoles at least.
    Yes its 'based' on the A10 architecture.
    Also you are ignoring the 80% of the computing power of the device i.e discrete 1.84TF GPU

    Combined with 0.7TF A10 APU you have a 2.5TF machine that can EASILY reach Samaritan and agni visuals

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    Yes its 'based' on the A10 architecture.
    Also you are ignoring the 80% of the computing power of the device i.e discrete 1.84TF GPU

    Combined with 0.7TF A10 APU you have a 2.5TF machine that can EASILY reach Samaritan and agni visuals

    itachi, you can't say that it is doing 1.84TF GPU because the specs haven't been released yet. nothing about it has been released. LOL

  13. #113
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    Here is a comparison of AMD's latest APU/GPU's to the RSX in the PS3:



    This is a ROUGH comparison. It's very difficult to compare many architecture differences based on the specs provided, and it does not take into account many additional features that the AMD graphic units have over an older architecture like the RSX.

    Some caveats to take into account:
    - RSX was released at 500 MHz, and not at 550 MHz as listed in Sony's specs, probably due to heat issues.
    - 200 watts for PS3 was for entire system in 2006, and it had a 380W power supply. 2012 PS3 total is around 50 watts.
    - Note, TDP is the maximum wattage a chip might produce, and not necessary the total wattage a chip will ever produce.
    - RSX has 32 shaders (8 vertex, 24 pixel). All the AMD shaders are unified.
    - RSX shader ops is 5 ops/cycle for the pixel shaders, and 2 ops/cycle for the vertex shaders. Is 1 op/cycle accurate for the AMD unified shaders?
    - A10-5800K has 32 Z/Stencil ROP Units?
    - Sweet spot for next generation looks to be AMD 7870, based on die size, and roughly 10X performance increase. Or a A10-5800K with a AMD 7850 (GPU in APU would have to match the tech in 7000/8000 series GPU, as right now, both chips cannot work together, due to different formats: VLIW4 versus SIMD).
    - PS3 cost is for whole system with 250GB HD, and the other GPU costs are graphics cards retail pricing. A10 APU is retail pricing for the APU only. Note, newegg.ca (Canadian) pricing listed. Pricing of a GPU going into PS4 would involve many factors not listed here.
    - Average difference is heavily skewed by very high shader counts in modern GPU's.
    - PS4 will most likely use AMD 8000 series technology, so you would have improvements in many areas.
    Last edited by Alpha; 12-11-2012 at 20:45.

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  16. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdoggy View Post
    itachi, you can't say that it is doing 1.84TF GPU because the specs haven't been released yet. nothing about it has been released. LOL
    I do look stupid in retropect
    but then even the A10 APU in ps4 hasn't been announced yet. I was basing my opinion on the latest rumour which seems very believable.

    Also, A10 smokes the RSX at everything with half the TDP. Nice

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    I've heard many people saying that Sony will use a GCN (SIMD) based AMD 7000/8000 series GPU in the PS4 (the thread even proclaims it). There have been leaks reading the first two of 4 rumored dev kits for the PS4. And, at least in the rumored dev kits, there is no mention of any GPU based on GCN architecture. Does anyone find that strange?

    The first dev kit supposedly had an AMD A8 APU (quad core CPU plus 6550D graphics) and an HD 7670 discrete GPU, both based on VLIW4. The second dev kit reported an A10 APU, which also includes VLIW4 based graphics, and no mention of a discrete GPU. VLIW and GCN are completely different graphics architectures; dev kits are meant to simulate final hardware so game developers can get a head start coding games so that can be ready when the system ships. Wouldn't changing the architecture of the graphics card be serious change in the design?

    If they were planning on using GCN based card for their final design, why not have their dev kit use an AMD FX 4170/4300 and HD 7700/7850, rather then A8+7670 or an A10? If Sony wants to use an APU, base on the previous dev kits I find it much more likely that it will be a quad core cpu with something like a 6950 (2.25 TFLOPS) or 6970 (2.7 TFLOPS), which are still very powerfull cards.

  18. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by dagnastyep View Post
    And, at least in the rumored dev kits, there is no mention of any GPU based on GCN architecture. Does anyone find that strange?
    It is strange, that no seperate GPU has been mentioned in the 2nd generation development kit, but I think the assumption is logical, that there will be a GCN architecture, considering AMD's VLIW4 architecture will be like 2 to 3 years old by the time the PS4 comes on the market.

    GCN is much better at handling GPGPU, and that's important for next generation games. It's much easier to debug code written in SIMD.

    The whole GCN architecture is more forward looking, and will get better compiler optimization support and different language options overtime.

    Plus it helps developers. They are already coding for the PC, so it's good to have a similar architecture that is growing in the PC market.

    I can't see much software investment in VLIW4 from now on.

    Not sure how difficult it is to convert code from VLIW4 to SIMD. Maybe AMD has automatic conversion tools to support that.

    If Sony does not include GCN, it's not the end of the world, but will be a major disappointment to a lot of people.

    Note that the next generation APU's due from AMD next year will support GCN.

    Sony has already upgraded it's APU twice in the development kits, going from Llano (VLIW5) to Trinity (VLIW4). Hopefully next will be Kaveri (SIMD), but I'm concerned about the timing for a late 2013 launch.

    You made some good points, and now I'm worried!
    Last edited by Alpha; 12-12-2012 at 01:24.

  19. #118
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    well the latest report from semi accurate says that sony may slip into 2014 spring or august release

  20. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by dagnastyep View Post
    Rumors point to the next xbox have an 8 core CPU, while Sony would have 4. For Sony to add a second CPU would be extremly costly, and wouldn't be very power efficient. Don't forget that xbox 720 will not only have kinect 2, but also rumored body sensors, heads up display, and DVR functionality; these could easily chew up 2-4 cores. It's likely that the 720 will need the extra 4 cores just to stay even with the PS4.
    The 720 will not need any catching up if Sony goes with 2GB RAM, it will not matter if Sony can somehow add another CPU in there either. RAM is and has always been the deal breaker.

    As for Kinect, not many games will have cross functionality apart from maybe racing titles. You are either going to have the more traditional controller or Kinect being the controller as has been the case this generation.

    Also, just like all consoles, you are not going to access all functions at once which makes computing more efficient.
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    Quote Originally Posted by acryllicaltair View Post
    The 720 will not need any catching up if Sony goes with 2GB RAM, it will not matter if Sony can somehow add another CPU in there either. RAM is and has always been the deal breaker.

    As for Kinect, not many games will have cross functionality apart from maybe racing titles. You are either going to have the more traditional controller or Kinect being the controller as has been the case this generation.

    Also, just like all consoles, you are not going to access all functions at once which makes computing more efficient.
    If the 2nd dev kit for the PS4 had a rumored 8 (or 16) gigs of RAM, I doubt the final version will have 2. Plus, there was the recent news from Crytek CEO suggesting that both next gen consoles have 8GB.
    http://www.computerandvideogames.com...-gen-consoles/

    I think you're underestimating Kinect 2, rumors say MS will pack it in with the console, it means that 100% of xbox 720 would have Kinect, versus 15-20% of 360 users that have Kinect. Because it will be so ubiquitous, I think it will be implemented much more then it has this gen, I read a rumor that all MS first party games will have some kind of Kinect functionality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dagnastyep View Post
    If the 2nd dev kit for the PS4 had a rumored 8 (or 16) gigs of RAM, I doubt the final version will have 2. Plus, there was the recent news from Crytek CEO suggesting that both next gen consoles have 8GB.
    http://www.computerandvideogames.com...-gen-consoles/

    I think you're underestimating Kinect 2, rumors say MS will pack it in with the console, it means that 100% of xbox 720 would have Kinect, versus 15-20% of 360 users that have Kinect. Because it will be so ubiquitous, I think it will be implemented much more then it has this gen, I read a rumor that all MS first party games will have some kind of Kinect functionality.
    And if they are bundling kinect 2 with the console, that will cost them a lot. That cost will mean less budget for the console itself would it not?

  23. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by dagnastyep View Post
    If the 2nd dev kit for the PS4 had a rumored 8 (or 16) gigs of RAM, I doubt the final version will have 2. Plus, there was the recent news from Crytek CEO suggesting that both next gen consoles have 8GB.
    http://www.computerandvideogames.com...-gen-consoles/

    I think you're underestimating Kinect 2, rumors say MS will pack it in with the console, it means that 100% of xbox 720 would have Kinect, versus 15-20% of 360 users that have Kinect. Because it will be so ubiquitous, I think it will be implemented much more then it has this gen, I read a rumor that all MS first party games will have some kind of Kinect functionality.
    Just for the sake of us gamers, I hope BOTH consoles have a great CPU/GPU combination with 8GB of RAM! I would hate to see one console be underpowered to the point that all 3rd party games get designed with the lower specs in mind to keep the porting easy...


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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyClaw View Post
    Just for the sake of us gamers, I hope BOTH consoles have a great CPU/GPU combination with 8GB of RAM! I would hate to see one console be underpowered to the point that all 3rd party games get designed with the lower specs in mind to keep the porting easy...
    I completely agree. I'm sure game companies such as Crytek, Epic, EA, etc have had there say of what they want to see in next gen consoles from Sony and MS. The director of technology at Square recently teased that we can expect to see the Agni's Philosophy running on consoles at E3. I'll be a very happy man, if they'll be able to run that demo in real time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dagnastyep View Post
    I completely agree. I'm sure game companies such as Crytek, Epic, EA, etc have had there say of what they want to see in next gen consoles from Sony and MS. The director of technology at Square recently teased that we can expect to see the Agni's Philosophy running on consoles at E3. I'll be a very happy man, if they'll be able to run that demo in real time.
    If they can pull off that demo at E3 running in 1080p @ 60 fps in realtime I will be one happy person!


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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyClaw View Post
    If they can pull off that demo at E3 running in 1080p @ 60 fps in realtime I will be one happy person!
    I wish...

    That way smart devs, such as ND, can crank back to 720p and 30fps and take a huge crap graphically over those 1080p 60fps games.
    Destiny is going to be EVERYTHING that EA and MS hoped titanfall would be

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