MGS2 Plot -WTF? [Spoilers]

[mynd]

The ability of this game to countermind everything the last guy told you about the plot verges on the insanley stupid.

The initial plot/mission is fairly standard fare.
It all go a bit sideways in the last few acts of this game however.

Colonel -check, totally plausabile. Up untill the point where he reveals "they" are some sort of nutured intellgient non-human sentinent being. Thats fine, and I assume he is born from AI (since the formation of America? -yeah right). But does this infact mean that GW was somewhere else being born?
Does it mean the patriots are infact themseleves pupets of this non-human sentinent?

Ocelots reasons -insanly stupid, he collects "data" on the S3 scenario, and prooves absolutly nothing! His conslusion was that any standard guy could become "snake" makes no sense, given Raiden is NOT any standard guy, and actually has a tremondous amount of help from Snake himself (unforseen). If S3 was an experiment in this sense it was a complete failure.

The Patriots reasons - well I dont know, who are the patriots? Colonel seems to have told us that "they" are in charge, and pretty much ignores the Patriots.

The censorship argument -Just stupid.

There is so much good sub plot points, its a pity the raison d'etre for this game is completly and utterly fucking stupid!

Things I did love:-
-E.E.'s sub plot. (you dirty little man Otacon!)
-Snakes bait and switch to get inside Arsenal Gear
-Colonals insane rantings due to the virus
-Naked Raiden (my son spent 20 mins trying to get him to become unmodest!)
-Olga's sub plot.
-Raidens back story
-Snake presenting Raiden with the sword -thats a holy fuck moment given what we know about Raiden in the future)
-The initial plot, was solid, well constructed and worked for 95% of the game. It drove the story and missions along beautfiully.


Also could someone tell me why in Gods name did Ocelot decided to choose "that" arm of all the friggin donars in the world?

[daLa]

Lol sounds like you need to play the rest of the MGS games, MGS it's one of the hardest plots to understand. I've played MGS1, MGS2, MGS3, MGS4, MGS Peace Walker, MGS Acid 1, MGS Acid 2 and I still get confused about some stuff with the plot now that I'm replaying MGS4.

[mynd]

Lol sounds like you need to play the rest of the MGS games, MGS it's one of the hardest plots to understand. I've played MGS1, MGS2, MGS3, MGS4, MGS Peace Walker, MGS Acid 1, MGS Acid 2 and I still get confused about some stuff with the plot now that I'm replaying MGS4.

Oh I think I understood the plot, just the reason's where stupid.
I mean Ocelots a complete dunce if he thought that S3 was anothing but a complete disaster.
I can even go along with S3 being a setup/mock up of Shadow Moses.

[Sir_Scud]

I thought the ending where the Colonel was explaining everything to Raiden was pretty cool. I like how basically everyone is just a pawn with a role. How the colonel instructs Raiden he has to kill Solidus or Sunny is killed and Solidus wants to kill Raiden because he has information on where the Patriots may be.

Ocelot is smarter than he appears. He's only playing his part, so he was just playing his role in the "S3" plan, as instructed by the Patriots. But keep in mind he is really backstabbing the patriots and the whole being Liquid thing is a deception to set up the events in MGS4. But there is so much more to this, could seriously write a paper on this alone.

Yeah, the whole being around since the formation of the country is questionable. However, all that stuff about the digital age and the masses being controlled was cool stuff.

[mynd]

I thought the ending where the Colonel was explaining everything to Raiden was pretty cool. I like how basically everyone is just a pawn with a role. How the colonel instructs Raiden he has to kill Solidus or Sunny is killed and Solidus wants to kill Raiden because he has information on where the Patriots may be.

The problem being, if Colonel or "it" is controlling things, then that makes the partiots pawns as well doesnt it?

Ocelot is smarter than he appears. He's only playing his part, so he was just playing his role in the "S3" plan, as instructed by the Patriots. But keep in mind he is really backstabbing the patriots and the whole being Liquid thing is a deception to set up the events in MGS4. But there is so much more to this, could seriously write a paper on this alone.

Ahh well that would make sense.

Yeah, the whole being around since the formation of the country is questionable. However, all that stuff about the digital age and the masses being controlled was cool stuff.

Cool but ultimatley never goign to happen, there is still the printed word. Even if you wrote an article for a newspaper and it got published differently, I mean what the hell your going to know somethign happened.
You have to control the source of the informasiton flow, not the flow itself.

[Sir_Scud]

I'm led to believe the Patriots are pawns, pawns of Zero. The AI systems and everything were built around Zero's philosophy and desire to control everything. I think they kind of allude this by even stating how everything was already planned well in advanced. All the events of the tanker and plant were under their watchful eye.

Yeah, I totally agree the information flow. The idea is cool, but yeah, unless they go all Men In Black with the neuralizer, it cannot be achieved.

[mynd]

S3 itself, ultimatley prooved nothing really, other than Snake wasnt dead.

I'm goign to hook into MGS3 next, Im just hoping the control scheme is updated.

[Sir_Scud]

Yeah I need to replay 2, 3, and 4 haha. I know the Solid Snake Simulation, was to mirror the events of Shadow Moses with the Plant. The S3 plan the colonel explains, basically sets up the events for MGS4. S3 plan is to control individuals.

The information collected from the plant helps test the AI's ability to manipulate events around them. However, it gets fuzzy for me there. I know that the Patriots wanted the events of the Plant to unfold because the virus spreading, Solidus' revolution, the President's betrayal, etc were all planned and manipulated by them. This data basically proves they can manipulate people and other events.

[bigCman123]

I'm led to believe the Patriots are pawns, pawns of Zero. The AI systems and everything were built around Zero's philosophy and desire to control everything. I think they kind of allude this by even stating how everything was already planned well in advanced. All the events of the tanker and plant were under their watchful eye.

Yeah, I totally agree the information flow. The idea is cool, but yeah, unless they go all Men In Black with the neuralizer, it cannot be achieved.

Well by the time of MGS4 Zero had succumbed to extreme old age so they guy was pretty much a vegetable. The world was being run by machines who did their own bidding. Basically there was a point when Zero no longer had any control because eventually became useless. The Patriot AI's continued the legacy or what ever.

Perhaps over fall break I'll pick up the MGS HD collection and do another run through of the MGS series. Definitely will do it before Ground Zeroes comes out and Rising.

SPOILERS

Ocelot probably used liquid's arm because liquid is a clone of Big Boss. Ocelot looked up to Big Boss (he even starts pretending to be him at times in MGS4). Also he was possessed by liquid in MGS2 because his father is the Sorrow who had some sort of weird powers that allowed him to deal with the dead or what ever (also it was an excuse to have liquid in MGS2 to be honest).