View Poll Results: Which OS will falter with the release of Win 8

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  • Andriod, iOS will be fine.

    2 14.29%
  • iOS, Andriod will be fine

    1 7.14%
  • Microsoft arent going to be able to compete.

    7 50.00%
  • Both Andriod and iOS will suffer.

    4 28.57%
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  1. #26
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    Is IOS only on Apple products then?

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    Quote Originally Posted by uofmtiger View Post
    The main issue with the pro is the weight. It is in a different league than the iPad and just short of a slim laptop. Also, the screen is smaller than a 13 inch and it may be harder to type on than a laptop's keyboard. However, the screen is still large enough that it may make it more unweildy than the iPad. In other words, it seems to fit between a laptop and iPad, so I am not sure what the market will be for that type of device. I assume that people that want Office on their tablets will be their largest audience.

    I am sure a lot of businesses will try it out, but its functionality compared to a ultra thin laptop will determine its long term fate. I was talking to the head of our IT dept and he said he may get one...mainly to test Windows8 in a touchscreen environment. I will have more of an idea about its functionality compared to laptops and iPads at that point. I don't think it will have any affect on the mini tablet market, though.
    Not really.

    1.5 vs 2 pounds is pretty comparable. Remember, both versions of surface have built in kickstands and folding keyboards. Which is much more sleek than a 3rd party stand for the ipad and physical keyboard.

    Initial impressions to both keyboards have been favorable, the touch cover does require a slight adjustment period.

    Not sure what display size has to do with anything. Several companies make sub 13 inch screen laptops.

    Surface pro is the most portable computing device created that gives you the same functionality as a laptop (ultrabook). The regular surface is just an improvement over other "dumb" tablets.

    This is what people said about the samsung series 7 tablet running windows 8:


  3. #28
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    Interesting to read your guys thoughts.

    I'm definitely interested in a Windows Tablet, that's for sure

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    Is IOS only on Apple products then?
    iOS is the mobile version of OSX, so yes. However both are derivatives of open source code.


  5. #30
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    But they are not open source.

    2 pounds is almost 1 bag of sugar. 2.2 = 1 kilo.
    The pro seems a bit heavy to meI wouldn't want to carry that about with me.
    Last edited by keefy; 10-19-2012 at 16:29.

  6. #31
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    IOS and Andriod tablets will lose sales to the windows 8 tablet like mynd mentioned alot of educational institutions use Office programs. My company like most provide blackberry's to supervisors and managment however in the near future we are looking to move into tablets for the management team to use and with the Windows based tablet its a no brainer we all use outlook and other ms office programs. MS many take over the market if people who use them for personl use decided they like them better than iOS and Android devices

    ~~~OLD SKOOL~~~

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    But they are not open source.

    2 pounds is almost 1 bag of sugar. 2.2 = 1 kilo.
    The pro seems a bit heavy to meI wouldn't want to carry that about with me.
    ? BSD was open source. Apple uses it for the foundation of OSX and iOS. It's a Unix based OS.


  8. #33
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    OSX and IOS isnt open source right?

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    But they are not open source.

    2 pounds is almost 1 bag of sugar. 2.2 = 1 kilo.
    The pro seems a bit heavy to meI wouldn't want to carry that about with me.
    Considering pretty much all laptops are significantly heavier....

    And there really isn't anymore to be done to make it lighter.

  10. #35
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    ...Kind of. But not really? This is something that has been kinda confusing to me.

    http://www.apple.com/opensource/


    This quote sums it up:

    "To put it simply: The kernel is open source; the user interface and all the applications that the OS comes with are not."


  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Considering pretty much all laptops are significantly heavier....

    And there really isn't anymore to be done to make it lighter.
    They are but we sit them on a desk or even more surprsingly our lap. Tablets we are meant to carry about like a clip board.

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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    They are but we sit them on a desk or even more surprsingly our lap. Tablets we are meant to carry about like a clip board.
    Right, but if you wanted to use surface pro with the keyboard, it is a much more efficient solution than 3rd party stands/docks for other tablets.

    To not have a built in kickstand and thin/folding keyboard would be a mistake.

    Realize that MS created a full power tablet that weighs 1/2 pound more than an ipad.

    I think you are making this out to be a much bigger issue than it is. Nothing with a comparable amount of power/ability weighs as much or less.

  13. #38
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    Doesnt matter what you think, I am not buying one for you.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    Doesnt matter what you think, I am not buying one for you.
    So much for your argument.

    And you never said why the regular surface wouldn't suffice.

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    Why does it always have to be an argument with you.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Right, but if you wanted to use surface pro with the keyboard, it is a much more efficient solution than 3rd party stands/docks for other tablets.

    To not have a built in kickstand and thin/folding keyboard would be a mistake.

    Realize that MS created a full power tablet that weighs 1/2 pound more than an ipad.

    I think you are making this out to be a much bigger issue than it is. Nothing with a comparable amount of power/ability weighs as much or less.
    The half pound difference, if you want to use it like a tablet, is significant. People complain about the weight difference between an iPad 3 and 2. Also, it is thicker and larger. People want even lighter tablets, so I just don't think it makes a good tablet.

    A half pound is less significant for a laptop. It isn't used the same way, so the form factor makes more weight easier to handle. The Surface Pro weighs a half pound less than ultra thin laptops. Pretty insignificant for this type of use, but the trade offs are that it will probably be more difficult to type on, especially when it sits in the lap. Also, I am not sure how beneficial Excel would be on a screen that small. I personally couldn't use it for work.

    I think the pro version is a "Jack of all trades, and a master of none". I would rather have an iPad for a tablet and laptop for a laptop. This seems to be a compromise on both fronts. Of course, I would need to use one to be sure, but this is my opinion based on what I am reading about it.

    In short, I don't think it will steal many users from the iPad. The exception will be those that want to own just one device and are obsessed with that one device being a tablet rather than a laptop. In the corporate world, I just can't see this replacing a laptop. I could be wrong, but we will know for sure in the next several months.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by uofmtiger View Post
    The half pound difference, if you want to use it like a tablet, is significant. People complain about the weight difference between an iPad 3 and 2. Also, it is thicker and larger. People want even lighter tablets, so I just don't think it makes a good tablet.

    A half pound is less significant for a laptop. It isn't used the same way, so the form factor makes more weight easier to handle. The Surface Pro weighs a half pound less than ultra thin laptops. Pretty insignificant for this type of use, but the trade offs are that it will probably be more difficult to type on, especially when it sits in the lap. Also, I am not sure how beneficial Excel would be on a screen that small. I personally couldn't use it for work.

    I think the pro version is a "Jack of all trades, and a master of none". I would rather have an iPad for a tablet and laptop for a laptop. This seems to be a compromise on both fronts. Of course, I would need to use one to be sure, but this is my opinion based on what I am reading about it.

    In short, I don't think it will steal many users from the iPad. The exception will be those that want to own just one device and are obsessed with that one device being a tablet rather than a laptop. In the corporate world, I just can't see this replacing a laptop. I could be wrong, but we will know for sure in the next several months.
    Except there are windows 8 tablets (x86 not RT) that are just as light as the ipad......

    Again I'll reiterate what you guys are not really getting here....

    The only people who drive iPad design is Apple.

    Samsung, HP, Dell, Asus, Acer etc etc are all going to be competing with each to drive the weight down and the power up on these tablets.

  18. #43
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    Will Sony be offering Windows 8 tablets?

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    Quote Originally Posted by uofmtiger View Post
    The half pound difference, if you want to use it like a tablet, is significant. People complain about the weight difference between an iPad 3 and 2. Also, it is thicker and larger. People want even lighter tablets, so I just don't think it makes a good tablet.

    A half pound is less significant for a laptop. It isn't used the same way, so the form factor makes more weight easier to handle. The Surface Pro weighs a half pound less than ultra thin laptops. Pretty insignificant for this type of use, but the trade offs are that it will probably be more difficult to type on, especially when it sits in the lap. Also, I am not sure how beneficial Excel would be on a screen that small. I personally couldn't use it for work.

    I think the pro version is a "Jack of all trades, and a master of none". I would rather have an iPad for a tablet and laptop for a laptop. This seems to be a compromise on both fronts. Of course, I would need to use one to be sure, but this is my opinion based on what I am reading about it.

    In short, I don't think it will steal many users from the iPad. The exception will be those that want to own just one device and are obsessed with that one device being a tablet rather than a laptop. In the corporate world, I just can't see this replacing a laptop. I could be wrong, but we will know for sure in the next several months.
    Taken from a Reddit interview of the surface team:

    http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comment...face_amaa_ask/

    Does the kickstand arrangement work for someone who wants to type with Surface on their lap? To me it looks like it's only stable on a table top.

    I've been using my Surface for a couple of month now. It works on your lap in multiple ways. Typing on the lap works fine, Surface is great for typing while on your couch. There are so many ways it folds and adjusts to your typing needs. You will be pleasantly surprised.




    If you flip the cover back, say to rest the tablet flat on a surface or to hold it, is there a mechanism that disables the keyboard so that it's not randomly typing? (This would be when the cover is flipped to the back of the device)

    Yes absolutely. Both TouchCover and TypeCover have sensors that understand orientation relative to Surface… in fact the Type and Touch Covers talk to Surface to figure out their relative position no matter the orientation of gravity of the device (pretty neat!). There are 3 positions modes: Closed (keys and mouse are off), Open to 180 degrees (keyboard and mousepad on), beyond 180 degrees to the back (keys and mouse off). That way you can flip back the covers and feel secure you are not pressing keys by mistake.




    What about the type cover? Do you type much faster? I'm wondering if I should get the type cover to take notes at school or if I can learn fast enough on the touch cover

    It depends on how you type. I have been using both for a while, and love them both. I love the sleekness of Touch Cover. Touch Cover has a very special digitizer that we invented.. it senses the impact force of your key presses. We designed super-fast electronics and smart algorithm in the keyboard so that Touch Cover can profile your key press down to a 1ms (1000 times a second). Using that information Touch Cover can infer if the user meant to press the key or not.. It is a smart key. So even though there is no key travel, the user can rest their hands on top of the keyboard and find home position without accidentally triggering keys.. pretty cool! The first time I typed on a full working version of Touch Cover, I typed just as fast as I do on a normal keyboard. I am confident you will be able to type significantly faster on Touch Cover than an onscreen keyboard. And with a little practice you will even do better (maybe even faster!) For folks who really love and really need keys that have travel, then Type Cover is one of the best keyboards I have ever used (desktop or other). It has a super awesome snappy key mechanism that feels great (has a strong hysteresis curve). Honestly both are great… try them both, actually get them both.



    Which cover do you personally prefer and why?

    I'm using a white Touch Cover. I like its thinness, Surface feels like a book with Touch Cover. We designed Touch Cover to be washable. If you spill your Coke on it you can just wash it off...


    How fast can you (personally) type on the Surface Touch keyboard? How about the Surface Type?

    I am Yi-Min and I am on the User Research team. I can type about 86 wpm on the Touch Cover and I am typing on a Pink Touch Cover!

    People complain about a lot of things. Hell, people make a big deal about the Lumia 920's weight. Not to mention you are neglecting to consider how the weight is balanced in the Surface Pro which can make a big difference.

    Also 2 more expensive devices < 1 less expensive devices.

    Besides, smartphones are starting to encroach on the tablet market. Really the only tablet that fits nicely between the two are in the ~7 inch range which presents its own issues.

    Not to mention you assume things will remain static and the device won't get lighter as technology improves.

    Bottom line is that there is nothing like it on the market.

    And one last thing about the ipad 2 -> 3 weight complaints. I bout anybody would complain if the original ipad started out with the weight/dimensions of the 3.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nitey View Post
    Will Sony be offering Windows 8 tablets?
    X86, not RT

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitey View Post
    Will Sony be offering Windows 8 tablets?
    Yes, there first offering is one with a slide keyboard....


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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitey View Post
    Will Sony be offering Windows 8 tablets?
    I think at the moment they are only offering hybrids such as the Sony VAIO Duo 11(which is nice if the extra weight and size doesn't bother you). By early next year they will probably offer one.

    I plan on getting the Samsung ATIV Smart PC 500T. I was going to wait until next year but I am wanting to take one with me on my trip next month. The 500T should be able to do pretty much anything I was wanting a tablet for and has 4G, S-Pen, expandable memory, micro hdmi and full size USB.

  22. #47
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    Thanks guys.

    That looks pretty neat, but quite large. I like the idea that MS themselves are going with, with the touch cover. It's quite exciting having Windows 8 tablets, I think the potential is huge and it seems that lot of hardware manufacturers feel the same way.

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    I think I will do without one for this trip. Watching some of these Surface RT videos the tablet looks very well built. I think I will wait for the Surface Pro and hope that the base model doesn't cost much more than $1000.

  24. #49
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    I installed Win8 on the laptop that I am using for media in my bedroom last night. It is a bit weird moving from the Start page to the old desktop and back. I am not that impressed with it as a way to work in a typical desktop environment. I will probably install it on my desktop PC, though. Since I don't use Windows that much at home, I can live with some of the quirks. For work I bring home, I use Win7 on a MBP and I am not going to update from Win7 on that computer at this time.

    I installed the Jump app ($15) on my iPad and laptop. It allows some of the touch features using it as a Remote Desktop. It works more smoothly in this environment compared to using a mouse all the time. If you can stick with apps, it works pretty smoothly (although streaming video is extremely choppy). It is definitely better than using Remote Desktop software with Win7.

    EDIT (added later): I got a chance to mess with a Surface tablet today. The form factor is definitely made for sitting it on a desk and typing in landscape mode. It is awkward to hold in portrait mode. I expected it to be more seamless than the desktop version of Win8, but it also has the issue of clicking on Excel and the Desktop pops up before you see Excel open up. If you are using it like a tablet, you can't just click in the cell to get the keyboard up. You have to actually click on a keyboard icon at the bottom of the screen for the keyboard to pop up. I thought that was strange after using an iPad for a while.

    Another issue is that apps stay open if you want to move on to something else. From what we could tell, you had to open the task manager (by searching for it after getting out of one of the apps...you get different behavior if you aren't in the main menu) to manually close anything down.

    From my understanding, you can assign different shortcuts. I think these will be important to make it a smoother experience.

    Personally, I think this is a much different market than the iPad. It is not as easy to use in Portrait mode, which many prefer when consuming content. As an example, we opened Zinio (the magazine app) and held it in Portrait. However, it had black bars at the top and bottom of the page. You could zoom in, but it would not let you go to the next page without zooming back out again. It just works better on an iPad.

    The upside is you get Word and Excel. I would rather just use Remote Desktop and get the best of both worlds. My iPad has LTE and I am rarely anywhere that can't connect to the internet.
    Last edited by uofmtiger; 10-29-2012 at 20:01.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uofmtiger View Post
    Another issue is that apps stay open if you want to move on to something else. From what we could tell, you had to open the task manager (by searching for it after getting out of one of the apps...you get different behavior if you aren't in the main menu) to manually close anything down.
    You can close the apps by holding your figure anywhere at the top of the screen and then dragging it down to the bottom of the screen.

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