Bad Port or Bad Hardware? (Update: Confirmed slow CPU)

[keefy]

Neither do I but I didn't have to put my PS3 controller on charge after every gaming session.

[mynd]

My kids would, they'd kill this thing, because I know they would never put the dam thing on charge. between the three of them, they can easily slice through 6 hours plus in a day on a weekend. And if they are using or have to use the tablet, thats fairly restrictive.

Considering it take only 2 hours to charge, i think most of us would forgo say a four hour charge to get 6 hours out of it.

[RaY_210]

I wouldn't use these games as measuring sticks. EA is simply horrible when it comes to Nintendo. Hell, it's already been confirmed that this years Madden and Fifa are the same game as last years! Just because theres an interesting idea with the Gamepad is no proof of effort. As far as Ninja Gaiden, yes it's possible it might be the CPU, but I wouldn't go stating it just yet. Yes they have similar hardware compared to the Wii. But that also means its that much different from the current consoles. I don't know ifTeam Ninja actually handled the port, but either way, this is a launch game that whoever ported, probably had trouble with it.

[DarkVincent07]

I am pretty sure that a lot of gamers have gaming sessions longer than three hours. The only option would be to buy many additional controllers.

@ mynd too, Hardly, you can charge it with a cable while playing...

[mynd]

@ mynd too, Hardly, you can charge it with a cable while playing...

Not in my house you won't unless you want to be camped under the TV. Power sockets are not plentiful.

I actually think they are being dicks about this battery, they sit there and advertise the bloody thing as a karaoke tablet for petes sake.
When we have a party/karaoke thing going it usually involves multiple consumptions of alcohol and hour might pass before anyone even starts singing.

Is it weight thing that restricted them to such a smaller capacity battery?

[DarkVincent07]

Hmm true true.

Either way, I'm interested in the hardware but its early days. Will wait and see what comes of it

[Cybertox]

@ mynd too, Hardly, you can charge it with a cable while playing...

Yeah but if you have two of those you can always switch. One being played while the other one charging.

[mynd]

Yeah but if you have two of those you can always switch. One being played while the other one charging.

I didnt think you could buy the tablet by itself? Or have they changed that?

[RaY_210]

I didnt think you could buy the tablet by itself? Or have they changed that?

They're not selling them standalone until next year except through Nintendo themselves. But they're supposed to be replacement, so I don't if you can just buy one straight out from them

[mynd]

According to PC Perspective's teardown, the Wii U has 2GB of DDR3 memory (provided by Samsung). User AlStrong on the Beyond 3D forums says this means the memory runs at a maximum speed of 17GB/s.

http://kotaku.com/5961547/report-wii...speed-revealed

Well, yup, there ya go. Piss poor, to average.
There better be something in that chipset thats alleviaitng the bus like some edram

[Vulgotha]

Well that's pleasing news atleast. This thing has 2GB of RAM? I'm impressed Nintendo did this.

Though I'm a bit fuzzy on how they got the math for the 17GB\s for bandwidth. How could they know precisely how much?

Edit: LOL @ Quaz's remark on B3D in response to AlStrong:

i don't think nintendo use the max chip frequency (because more failure and heat).
probably use intermediate 1866mhz data rate = 15Go/s.
X360 have 50% more bandwith (22.4Go/s). it's a bottleneck, WiiU game probably need max use of eDRAM for map and not just frame buffer. it will be difficult to use MSAA or 1080p...

[mynd]

Well that's pleasing news atleast. This thing has 2GB of RAM? I'm impressed Nintendo did this.

Though I'm a bit fuzzy on how they got the math for the 17GB\s for bandwidth. How could they know precisely how much?

Edit: LOL @ Quaz's remark on B3D in response to AlStrong:

[/FONT][/COLOR]

Without the edram, the 360 would be a turkey and stutter the crap out of it.
Basically if your wiriting the framebuffer back, you need almost allthat 20+gbs exlcusive to the GPU.

When you have to share it with the CPU? Hells teeth.

Throughput? bits x mhz I assume.
Been a while since I bothered calcualitng them myself.

[TGO]

I just cant agree with any of you.
There is a significant difference between the WiiU and rest.

This isnt like this is actually new hardware, you might all think it is but if you dig in behind it this tech it is well known.

This is not some new CPU core.
This is not some new graphics chip.

All of this runs on well tested well understood hardware.

The only possible exclusion to that would be the cache hit and buss performance.

MS struggled with completely new tech (EDRAM cache new GPU tech and multiple cores).

Sony struggled with new tech (Asymmetric CPU, shader graphics which first party had never dealt with before)

Nintendo have 3rd party devs struggling with known GPU tech and known CPU tech.

I kinda agree
With new hardware comes new ips, new engines and unknown grounds
360 was a easy to develop for console which while games run fine in the early days they was far from perfect and porting them to PS3 was a headache for some developers
We are now at the point where developers are using optimized engines they know very well
PS3 can rise or fall with those engine's depending on development
Putting their game on the Wii U shouldn't and I don't believe it is like a new console doing something the previous consoles couldn't
I just believe it can't

Sent via Codec

[KillingSpree0]

That's almost exactly what Mynd said earlier or in another thread. I Just remember him saying something like that

[skinny_jr]

Omg!!! I'm agreeing with Mynd!!!!!!

[Vulgotha]

Ah, only 1GB of the total RAM is accessible for games on the WiiU from what I'm reading.

[mynd]

Ah, only 1GB of the total RAM is accessible for games on the WiiU from what I'm reading.

Yip thats correct, the 1gb for the operating system, which it appears rivals that of the death star.

"Thats no moon, thats an operating system"

[sainraja]

Sounds familiar.

At point, is it okay to consider that the blame lies on the developer?

Not all hardware is going to be built or work the same. And even if the Wii U uses familiar technology/specs.....doesn't mean that developers won't struggle with how Nintendo put it together.

Unless you are saying X360 + Wii U have exactly the same type of tech....

[mynd]

At point, is it okay to consider that the blame lies on the developer?

Not all hardware is going to be built or work the same. And even if the Wii U uses familiar technology/specs.....doesn't mean that developers won't struggle with how Nintendo put it together.

Unless you are saying X360 + Wii U have exactly the same type of tech....

Give a man a fast car, they can drive fast. doesnt matte rif they drive fatsre than others, they will still drive faster than they would have if you give them a horse.

[sainraja]

Give a man a fast car, they can drive fast. doesnt matte rif they drive fatsre than others, they will still drive faster than they would have if you give them a horse.

....they can also crash that fast car, like so:

[Vulgotha]

Yip thats correct, the 1gb for the operating system, which it appears rivals that of the death star.

"Thats no moon, thats an operating system"

LOL dude, what on earth could Nintendo have pieced together that will soak up a whole GB of RAM in an embedded system?

The more i think about that... The more confused I am. I'm guessing, at the least, people can surf the web while in-game then? Cross game chat? Security?

Xbox 360 OS = 32MB of RAM
Nintendo WiiU OS = 1024MB of RAM

lol


Wait, it gets better:

anand thinks the ddr is 800 mhz https://twitter.com/anandshimpi/stat...89178242195456

he's also been tweeting about his teardown and he tore the heat spreader off. said he damaged the dies but was able to get measurements. which will be in his article.

4 chips * (1600Mb/s*16) ->102,400Mb/s -> 12.8GB/s

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread...60501&page=131


So it looks like the final bandwidth figure is hovering around 12-13GB\s. That is truly and absolutely pathetic. That Edram better be made of miracles and unicorns, because otherwise this piece of crap will barely be able to beat out the current generation.

[mynd]

....they can also crash that fast car, like so:

LOL I love that video, but we are are talking about a straight road here.

The cell...now there's a windy mother of a road.

Better explanation would be this.

You have a Bicycle.
I have a car.
I don't have to drive it faster to beat you. Just keep it on the road. Later I'll be skilled and confident enough enough to drive fast. But for the mean time, I know even if I'm careful I with the raw speed advantage I have, I'm going to be able to at least keep up with you.

[sainraja]

I am just saying that you can't ignore the skills that a group of developers have and always assume that it's the hardware. Wii U does not obey the same rules as X360. Or does it?

My understanding is that it doesn't.

Regardless of what anyone here believes. If a game does not work properly on a system, most consumers aren't going to blame the hardware for it. They'll look at who made the game..

...so if a company has decided to make a game for a certain platform, they should make sure that it works properly on it and matches the quality of all their products. If it doesn't, then it really is a reflection of what they are okay with releasing, of what they are willing to put their stamp on.

If it does run and work properly, you're not going to be concerned about how it looks elsewhere because if you bought it for a Wii U, it was a decision that you made....

Not really a big deal and I don't think blaming the hardware all the time will provide the answers.

We only seem to be talking about games that don't match the X360/PS3 versions, what about the ones that do?

Or none do? what about Arkham City? nobody is talking about that here? is that a bad port as well? I am guessing it's not which is why the lack of mention here..

[mynd]

I am just saying that you can't ignore the skills that a group of developers have and always assume that it's the hardware. Wii U does not obey the same rules as X360. Or does it?

My understanding is that it doesn't.

Regardless of what anyone here believes. If a game does not work properly on a system, most consumers aren't going to blame the hardware for it. They'll look at who made the game..

...so if a company has decided to make a game for a certain platform, they should make sure that it works properly on it and matches the quality of all their products. If it doesn't, then it really is a reflection of what they are okay with releasing, of what they are willing to put their stamp on.

If it does run and work properly, you're not going to be concerned about how it looks elsewhere because if you bought it for a Wii U, it was a decision that you made....

Not really a big deal and I don't think blaming the hardware all the time will provide the answers.

We only seem to be talking about games that don't match the X360/PS3 versions, what about the ones that do?

Or none do? what about Arkham City? nobody is talking about that here? is that a bad port as well? I am guessing it's not which is why the lack of mention here..

So we are happy then that a brand new system can show of the same and some worse graphics/power systems than a system 6 years older than it?
Maybe I have higher standards then you but, I could understand that from a system maybe 3-4 years newer, but no, not 6 years newer.

[Vulgotha]

Seems like there may be an ARM dual core shoved inside the Wii U.. And the chaps over at B3D seem to think that the CPU is something a bit more than a beefed up Broadway.