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  1. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shibby View Post
    Morgan Freeman has earned himself another freckle.
    That was a great post by Freeman.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Kwesnoth- View Post
    You should not be embarrassed for the small number of people that are bad in America, you should be proud of how fast fellow Americans rally together to support the families of the fallen, and be proud of people like this.


    She died to protect her fellow Americans, and you are $#@!ing about how this embarrasses you? How do you think the families of this patriot feel? Proud or embarrassed?
    I couldn't give a f* if anyone is American, Jamaican, or Swedish - people like this should be celebrated. This type of person, and anyone else like this or those that share traits like her; is not exclusive to one group such as 'Merica.

    Saw the news of a father telling his story about he and his daughter's last moments in that morning. Puts things into perspective (as I write this, I've ranted on the NFL thread how my team sucks). But we know what is really important.

    I couldn't give a $#@! if you like guns or not; fact is; this is not the only occurrence in the history of the USA for this to happen. Won't be the last.

    Arming principals i s not the answer (they're not trained, it's not a videogame - they're not gonna react like some Jason Brody/FarCry3 character).

    People around the world are debating this "gun issue" not because we want to control ho "Mericans" live, but because we care for these things not to happen- regardless if they're American or not.

    I'm not saying one way or another - but just look at the proof in the pudding.

    Love all the guns you want, just don't be surprised when these things happen 50 times a year or what not. And I certainly don't wish for that to happen.

    I'd rather you Yanks get what you (few? many?) want - sitting on a porch hick-like peacefully shining your guns, than anything like this to happen, ever.

    Sadly, that isn't reality.


    /sadAndAngryRant
    Last edited by Admartian; 12-16-2012 at 19:41.

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  2. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by admartian View Post
    That was a great post by Freeman.


    I couldn't give a f* is anyone is American, Jamaica, or Swedish. People like this should be celebrated. This type of person, and anyone else like this or those that share traits like her; is not exclusive to one group such as 'Merica.

    Saw the news of a father telling his story about he and his daughter's last moments in that morning. Puts things into perspective (as I write this, I've ranted on the NFL thread how my team sucks). But we know what is really important.

    I couldn't give a $#@! if you like guns or not; fact is; this is not the only occurrence in the history of the USA for this to happen. Won't be the last.

    Arming principals i s not the answer (they're not trained, it's not a videogame - they're not gonna react like some Jason Brody/FarCry3 character).

    People around the world are debating this "gun issue" not because we want to control ho "Mericans" live, but because we care for these things not to happen- regardless if they're American or not.

    I'm not saying one way or another - but just look at the proof in the pudding.

    Love all the guns you want, just don't be surprised when these things happen 50 times a year or what not. And I certainly don't wish for that to happen.

    I'd rather you Yanks sitting on a porch hick-like peacefully with your guns, than anything like this to happen.

    Sadly, that isn't reality.


    /sadAndAngryRant

    A 1997 high school shooting in Pearl, Miss., was halted by the school's vice principal after he retrieved the Colt .45 he kept in his truck.

    Just sayin'.




  3. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    The IRA are government based NOW. They weren't when they started though, when the whole of Ireland was under UK control. They formed an illegal militia and armed themselves with illegal weapons to fight for their independence, which, with the exception of Northern Ireland, they achieved.








    Brief history lesson for you.

    America is a country that was born from armed rebellion against it's tyrannical ruling government (The British).

    America is unique in the world in that power in the US comes from the people, NOT the government. The 2nd Amendment was put in place to insure that the American people ALWAYS retain the ultimate power in the country. The 2nd Amendment is a Constitutional guarantee that the American people will ALWAYS have the ability to overthrow their own government and replace it if necessary.

    It's not there simply to protect against crime. It's not there to protect Americans from the British. It's there to protect Americans from ANY tyrannical government, expecially their own.



    This is also why the US military takes an oath to protect the Constitution for ALL enemies, both foreign AND DOMESTIC. The Military does NOT take an oath to protect the government, nor the president. They take an oath to protect the Constitution, which means that they too have the right and ability to aid the people in armed rebellion. They are bound to take orders from the president, provided the presidents orders do not conflict with the Constitution.


    It is our guns which make us citizens of the US. It is your lack of guns which make you British SUBJECTS. Our government cannot subjugate us like yours does you. Little slaves who do as you're told.
    PRetty much agreed.

    Apart form the last, chest-thumping vitriolic xenophobia in the end there.

    Tone it down mate, we're all just upset at this thing. No need to be chanting "USA, USA USA" when we're all in the same 'team' here.

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  4. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post

    A 1997 high school shooting in Pearl, Miss., was halted by the school's vice principal after he retrieved the Colt .45 he kept in his truck.

    Just sayin'.
    That is one person out f many. And that person should certainly be commended.

    I don't think your average principal can do that though.

    Not agreeing or disagreeing with you. I just think the majority form a cross-section of society that by and large, educators - are not going to react like that.

    Of all the examples you posted, it would certainly be interesting to see what kind of person all those people were.

    And out of all those people in the malls (or schools, or workplaces etc) how many were not able (or had the capacity/wherewithal) to do anything? Whether they had a gun or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by admartian View Post
    That is one person out f many. And that person should certainly be commended.

    I don't think your average principal can do that though.

    Not agreeing or disagreeing with you. I just think the majority form a cross-section of society that by and large, educators - are not going to react like that.

    Of all the examples you posted, it would certainly be interesting to see what kind of person all those people were.

    And out of all those people in the malls (or schools, or workplaces etc) how many were not able (or had the capacity/wherewithal) to do anything? Whether they had a gun or not.
    So they shouldn't even have the option of being armed and receiving training in order to prevent such things from occurring.?

  6. #281
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    Btw, Morgan Freeman didn't make that quote. =(

    http://now.msn.com/morgan-freeman-ne...ment-is-a-hoax


  7. #282
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    I just wonder what will take for things to change
    Plato and Aristotle, a detail of The School of Athens, a fresco by Raphael. Aristotle gestures to the earth, representing his belief in knowledge

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  9. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    So they shouldn't even have the option of being armed and receiving training in order to prevent such things from occurring.?
    Exactly.




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    Quote Originally Posted by claud3 View Post
    I just wonder what will take for things to change
    Ending the prohibition of guns in public places like schools, malls, theaters, etc. Allow teachers and students alike to carry protection after a certain age.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    So they shouldn't even have the option of being armed and receiving training in order to prevent such things from occurring.?
    No one said that. I was jstu posing the questions. Clearly there should be a restriction on what type of gun. BUt the pro-gun people have never been ever about compromise.

    And by the tone of pro-gun people's posts before and I'm sure it's the same in real life, there will never be a compromise.

    Very very defensive folk the way I've seen it. The moment you mention any form of any law/rule; out come the guns (literally and figuratively).

    Very hard for any mindful discussions that don't turn heated.

    Heck take my post as just one trying to figure this out, and we get responses like these.

    Like I said, keep your guns. Just be prepared to bury your children more regularly than most people in the western world do, too... (I hope you don't but that is reality in the bed you wish to make).



    EDIT:
    lol yep; defensive.

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  12. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morganator View Post
    Ending the prohibition of guns in public places like schools, malls, theaters, etc. Allow teachers and students alike to carry protection after a certain age.
    Why stop there? Surely preventing kids form holding guns has led to this?

    Why not allow them to carry Would've have given the kids a chance to defend themselves.



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    Quote Originally Posted by admartian View Post
    No one said that. I was jstu posing the questions. Clearly there should be a restriction on what type of gun. BUt the pro-gun people have never been ever about compromise.

    And by the tone of pro-gun people's posts before and I'm sure it's the same in real life, there will never be a compromise.

    Very very defensive folk the way I've seen it. The moment you mention any form of any law/rule; out come the guns (literally and figuratively).

    Very hard for any mindful discussions that don't turn heated.

    Heck take my post as just one trying to figure this out, and we get responses like these.

    Like I said, keep your guns. Just be prepared to bury your children more regularly than most people in the western world do, too... (I hope you don't but that is reality in the bed you wish to make).



    EDIT:
    lol yep; defensive.
    Why would you say that? What even supports that? This isn't about pro-gun, keep all guns, no limitations, etc. That's starting even more to discuss than what is being done now. So, let's say that gun bans are lifted from schools for certain people; teachers, staff, etc., how does that generate a comment about burying our children more regularly....?

    Quote Originally Posted by admartian View Post
    Why stop there? Surely preventing kids form holding guns has led to this?

    Why not allow them to carry Would've have given the kids a chance to defend themselves.



    "A certain age" kinda means, age that you're legally able to buy a weapon. I don't think he meant a kindergartner. smh




  14. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Why would you say that? What even supports that? This isn't about pro-gun, keep all guns, no limitations, etc. That's starting even more to discuss than what is being done now. So, let's say that gun bans are lifted from schools for certain people; teachers, staff, etc., how does that generate a comment about burying our children more regularly....?




    "A certain age" kinda means, age that you're legally able to buy a weapon. I don't think he meant a kindergartner. smh
    This particular shooting for example.

    I apologise if this starts anything. Things like this, and this more specifically really get to me. I really do wish there was s something I could do. I just think prevention is better- preferably without guns. Just a difference in approach I suppose.

    I really mean no offense to anyone if anyone thinks their rights are being 'impinged'.

    Just $#@!ing mind blowing and frustrating that something like this can happen/has happened.

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  15. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by DayWalker View Post
    Guns don't kill people.

    Idiots, and criminals, and assholes, and mentally unstable people with ridiculously easy access to guns kill people.
    Although I agree that the tool can't be held responsible for the action of the one holding it, I think people need to re-evaluate their stance on weapons. Wrath got a lot of criticism in this thread but he made an irrefutable point; Guns are solely meant to KILL. Guns DO kill people. If they don't then why are there restrictions on the size and caliber of weapons available for purchase?

    If Guns don't kill people then the same can be said about UAV drone strikes and nukes right? lets give every citizen a portable nuke and some missiles for self defense. I'm sorry for beating a dead horse here (guns laws etc) but we can't just ignore this subject by saying its the man who did it and move on. It WAS the crazy bastard who did it but do you think he would have wreaked the same havoc just with a knife? I don't think so.

    The man made the intention but the gun allowed him to see it through. And if we can't sort out the major variable in this (twisted and mentally sick criminals) then we need to focus on the other parameters that aid them (weapons) because it's all about minimizing damage
    Last edited by Itachi; 12-16-2012 at 20:34.

  16. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    "A certain age" kinda means, age that you're legally able to buy a weapon. I don't think he meant a kindergartner. smh
    No - but I'm just using the rationale of proponents of the issue; as in, why stop there? Why "restrict" (which is a word that some REALLY hate) anyone?

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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    Although I agree that the tool can't be held responsible for the action of the one holding it, I think people need to re-evaluate their stance on weapons. Wrath got a lot of criticism in this thread but he made an irrefutable point; Guns are solely meant to KILL. Guns DO kill people. If they don't then why are there restrictions on the size and caliber of weapons available for purchase?

    If Guns don't kill people then the same can be said about UAV drone strikes and nukes right? lets give every citizen a portable nuke and some missiles for self defense. I'm sorry for beating a dead horse here (guns laws etc) but we can't just ignore this subject by saying its the man who did it and move on. It WAS the crazy bastard who did it but do you think he would have wreaked the same havoc just with a knife? I don't think so.
    Of course he did.

    NoO other way around it other than people thinking they are being attacked if things like this are being prohibited or controlled.

    Read; control.

    Not ban. Not outlaw.

    Either way, it's a "you're with us or against us type of deal with some.

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  19. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by admartian View Post
    This particular shooting for example.

    I apologise if this starts anything. Things like this, and this more specifically really get to me. I really do wish there was s something I could do. I just think prevention is better- preferably without guns. Just a difference in approach I suppose.

    I really mean no offense to anyone if anyone thinks their rights are being 'impinged'.

    Just $#@!ing mind blowing and frustrating that something like this can happen/has happened.
    I understand what you mean.. just doesn't make much sense in the scope of it all. No one had any means of protection except making a phone call, locking doors, and hiding. Hoping for help. I'd rather have some way to protect these kids. That's why we have officers in our schools. It'll start from there. What if that VP that lunged for the shooter in this, actually had a gun? I mean, the differences it COULD make with the option is a lot better than the difference it made without having that option.




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    I understand what you mean.. just doesn't make much sense in the scope of it all. No one had any means of protection except making a phone call, locking doors, and hiding. Hoping for help. I'd rather have some way to protect these kids. That's why we have officers in our schools. It'll start from there. What if that VP that lunged for the shooter in this, actually had a gun? I mean, the differences it COULD make with the option is a lot better than the difference it made without having that option.
    I get it. I just don't know how every Joe blow can get a high powered weapon though.

    IN either case, it's a shame. Just racking my brain for solutions that can't ever be enacted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by admartian View Post
    I get it. I just don't know how every Joe blow can get a high powered weapon though.

    IN either case, it's a shame. Just racking my brain for solutions that can't ever be enacted.
    It doesn't necessarily be a high powered weapon, but hey, those that are killing others are getting them, legally or otherwise. Might as well allow these places to have SOME method of protection, even if it's a handgun...




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    It doesn't necessarily be a high powered weapon, but hey, those that are killing others are getting them, legally or otherwise. Might as well allow these places to have SOME method of protection, even if it's a handgun...
    What about just making body armour and headgear more affordable?

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    Quote Originally Posted by admartian View Post
    What about just making body armour and headgear more affordable?
    That directs the fire at those who aren't wearing it. Whereas someone with a gun, engaging the shooter, directs that shooters fire at them.




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    I understand what you mean.. just doesn't make much sense in the scope of it all. No one had any means of protection except making a phone call, locking doors, and hiding. Hoping for help. I'd rather have some way to protect these kids. That's why we have officers in our schools. It'll start from there. What if that VP that lunged for the shooter in this, actually had a gun? I mean, the differences it COULD make with the option is a lot better than the difference it made without having that option.
    I completely understand your point, and more importantly, I understand the feelings of fear and helplessness that the victims would have been facing. Yet still it seems strange to me that we want to solve a gun problem by MORE GUNS. Its just one of those gray areas of life where there's no clear solution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by admartian View Post
    I get it. I just don't know how every Joe blow can get a high powered weapon though.

    IN either case, it's a shame. Just racking my brain for solutions that can't ever be enacted.
    It helps if you don't spew bs like that.

    Shocker: all calibers of ammunition can be lethal. From the diminutive .22lr up to the gigantic .50BMG.

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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    That directs the fire at those who aren't wearing it. Whereas someone with a gun, engaging the shooter, directs that shooters fire at them.
    Or maybe jsut making sure there are less and less of these "shooters" around.

    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    I completely understand your point, and more importantly, I understand the feelings of fear and helplessness that the victims would have been facing. Yet still it seems strange to me that we want to solve a gun problem by MORE GUNS. Its just one of those gray areas of life where there's no clear solution.
    Yeah that's sort of what I was thinking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    I completely understand your point, and more importantly, I understand the feelings of fear and helplessness that the victims would have been facing. Yet still it seems strange to me that we want to solve a gun problem by MORE GUNS. Its just one of those gray areas of life where there's no clear solution.
    THe only way to get rid of it is to get rid of every gun on earth. The other option is to allow people to protect themselves, and in this case, the children. There's a lot going on here. How did he get in the school is a start. From there, things can be done to slow $#@! like this down.




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