Shootings At Connecticut Elementary School

[reasonable_doubt]

10 years is hardly very long when your nation is awash with guns. and banning assault rifles, but not pistols, and then having a disjointed state approach to weapons is hardly likely to be effective.

actually the 1994 Assault rifle ban has prove a lot of what legit guns owner have been saying.

Here's the 1997 Hollywood shootout and yes, the criminals was using Assault Rifle( real one, and u can't just walk in store and buy it like CNN claims.). Tons of cops was out gunned that day, Where they had to go to a local gun store and grab a Semi-auto( mass killing weapon) AR15 to fight the criminals waiting for the SWAT to come.

[Equinoqs]

I strongly disagree with some of your opinions on guns and the need for gun control. But a lot of you have great taste in videogames, so we're cool.

[Completely Average]

Why show info you are lost in mate... do you know what youhave posted

Could you try reposting your thoughts in coherent English please? I don't speak gibberish.

Mate I said sorry for my actions of attacking your flag and nation

I was caught up in the moment and i just went for the one thing you all love...
Again sorry for my actions

You sure do get caught up in that moment an awful lot. Almost daily. Seems this "moment" of yours never stops, as I have been pointing out your attacks for months now. Are you sure that you're just being caught up in the moment and aren't just someone hates America and Americans? Your "moments" are so frequent it's hard to tell the difference.


I wonder if I could get away with attacking the UK and Brits as often as you do Americans on this site. Somehow, I doubt it.

[claud3]

We can show all the videos we want on how guns kill and ruin lives and post all the evidence we want in favor of gun ban or not to ban them

The bottom line is, it will still bring death and destroy families and leave a mark on society with hatred for guns and the people who carry them..... look the government have blame for certain parts of why guns are so easily obtained and gun shop owners to and so are parents...

The amendment was not ment to be taking as gospel.... It was written so it could be part of a freedom aspect of the revolution back in the day of the birth of America..... Those that take this amendment as gospel are the ones needed to be brought into question.... They not all of them though, they are the ones that would kill their own to safe guard this and that is a dangerous mix....

I know I do not fully understand why the amendments were created and why they are safe guarded to the point that they are worshipped like gospel....But I do know that they will be the one thing will bring separation of a nation over one of the things that keeps you together.

Guys we live in a world of uncertainty and gun crime is unwelcomed, but it's part of this world no matter if you try and ban them all

It's the same as knife crime, rape crime, drug crime peado crime etc etc....

I like others are outsiders looking in and preaching what we believe how the u.s should run their country might actually know more than some American people do... Are American members here on the forum

Can teach us a thing or two about why they guard these amendment right so dearly... We just need to sit and wake up and listen to them...

Lets not knock or criticize a country or preach to people that know more than we do

[chrisw26308]

Very interesting read. If someone can quote it for me. I dont know if I ca w tapatalk.

http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.c...kable.html?m=1

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

[Completely Average]

The amendment was not ment to be taking as gospel.... I was written so it could be part of a freedom aspect of the revolution back in the day of the birth of America.....

Your ignorance is only exceeded by your arrogance.


Just a few quotes for you, from one of the men who wrote the US Constitution....

Laws that forbid the carrying of arms..disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one

The constitutions of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property and freedom of the press

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government

The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first.

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.


What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance?

The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.


------------------Thomas Jefferson




Now, can you show me precisely where, in the words of one of the authors of the US Constitution, you get the idea and belief that he only meant the 2nd Amendment to be temporary?

[claud3]

I did not say it was temporary, it was put in so it could be acted upon when threats arises

[Completely Average]

I did not say it was temporary, it was put in so it could be acted upon when threats arises

And since you don't know when that threat will arise, it is necessary to insure that the Second Amendment remains in place and the people remain armed at ALL times.

Right?




And for the record, if you Brits really knew better like you claimed, then why is your violent crime rate MORE THAN 5 TIMES HIGHER THAN THE US?

[claud3]

Nope mate... As I stated that US outsiders do not fully understand why they are in place and the reason why they are so guarded as gospel

But you have to see it from my point of view mate, I see it differently and i am going to go and look all the amendments up

[claud3]

Very interesting read. If someone can quote it for me. I dont know if I ca w tapatalk.

http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.c...kable.html?m=1

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

For you mate

Friday, December 14, 2012

Anarchist Soccer Mom at 10:07 PM

Thinking the Unthinkable

In the wake of another horrific national tragedy, it’s easy to talk about guns. But it’s time to talk about mental illness.

Three days before 20 year-old Adam Lanza killed his mother, then opened fire on a classroom full of Connecticut kindergartners, my 13-year old son Michael (name changed) missed his bus because he was wearing the wrong color pants.

“I can wear these pants,” he said, his tone increasingly belligerent, the black-hole pupils of his eyes swallowing the blue irises.

“They are navy blue,” I told him. “Your school’s dress code says black or khaki pants only.”

“They told me I could wear these,” he insisted. “You’re a stupid bitch. I can wear whatever pants I want to. This is America. I have rights!”

“You can’t wear whatever pants you want to,” I said, my tone affable, reasonable. “And you definitely cannot call me a stupid bitch. You’re grounded from electronics for the rest of the day. Now get in the car, and I will take you to school.”

I live with a son who is mentally ill. I love my son. But he terrifies me.

A few weeks ago, Michael pulled a knife and threatened to kill me and then himself after I asked him to return his overdue library books. His 7 and 9 year old siblings knew the safety plan —they ran to the car and locked the doors before I even asked them to. I managed to get the knife from Michael, then methodically collected all the sharp objects in the house into a single Tupperware container that now travels with me. Through it all, he continued to scream insults at me and threaten to kill or hurt me.

That conflict ended with three burly police officers and a paramedic wrestling my son onto a gurney for an expensive ambulance ride to the local emergency room. The mental hospital didn’t have any beds that day, and Michael calmed down nicely in the ER, so they sent us home with a prescription for Zyprexa and a follow-up visit with a local pediatric psychiatrist.

We still don’t know what’s wrong with Michael. Autism spectrum, ADHD, Oppositional Defiant or Intermittent Explosive Disorder have all been tossed around at various meetings with probation officers and social workers and counselors and teachers and school administrators. He’s been on a slew of antipsychotic and mood altering pharmaceuticals, a Russian novel of behavioral plans. Nothing seems to work.

At the start of seventh grade, Michael was accepted to an accelerated program for highly gifted math and science students. His IQ is off the charts. When he’s in a good mood, he will gladly bend your ear on subjects ranging from Greek mythology to the differences between Einsteinian and Newtonian physics to Doctor Who. He’s in a good mood most of the time. But when he’s not, watch out. And it’s impossible to predict what will set him off.

Several weeks into his new junior high school, Michael began exhibiting increasingly odd and threatening behaviors at school. We decided to transfer him to the district’s most restrictive behavioral program, a contained school environment where children who can’t function in normal classrooms can access their right to free public babysitting from 7:30-1:50 Monday through Friday until they turn 18.

The morning of the pants incident, Michael continued to argue with me on the drive. He would occasionally apologize and seem remorseful. Right before we turned into his school parking lot, he said, “Look, Mom, I’m really sorry. Can I have video games back today?”

“No way,” I told him. “You cannot act the way you acted this morning and think you can get your electronic privileges back that quickly.”

His face turned cold, and his eyes were full of calculated rage. “Then I’m going to kill myself,” he said. “I’m going to jump out of this car right now and kill myself.”

That was it. After the knife incident, I told him that if he ever said those words again, I would take him straight to the mental hospital, no ifs, ands, or buts. I did not respond, except to pull the car into the opposite lane, turning left instead of right.

“Where are you taking me?” he said, suddenly worried. “Where are we going?”

“You know where we are going,” I replied.

“No! You can’t do that to me! You’re sending me to hell! You’re sending me straight to hell!”

I pulled up in front of the hospital, frantically waiving for one of the clinicians who happened to be standing outside. “Call the police,” I said. “Hurry.”

Michael was in a full-blown fit by then, screaming and hitting. I hugged him close so he couldn’t escape from the car. He bit me several times and repeatedly jabbed his elbows into my rib cage. I’m still stronger than he is, but I won’t be for much longer.

The police came quickly and carried my son screaming and kicking into the bowels of the hospital. I started to shake, and tears filled my eyes as I filled out the paperwork—“Were there any difficulties with....at what age did your child....were there any problems with...has your child ever experienced...does your child have....”

At least we have health insurance now. I recently accepted a position with a local college, giving up my freelance career because when you have a kid like this, you need benefits. You’ll do anything for benefits. No individual insurance plan will cover this kind of thing.

For days, my son insisted that I was lying—that I made the whole thing up so that I could get rid of him. The first day, when I called to check up on him, he said, “I hate you. And I’m going to get my revenge as soon as I get out of here.”

By day three, he was my calm, sweet boy again, all apologies and promises to get better. I’ve heard those promises for years. I don’t believe them anymore.

On the intake form, under the question, “What are your expectations for treatment?” I wrote, “I need help.”

And I do. This problem is too big for me to handle on my own. Sometimes there are no good options. So you just pray for grace and trust that in hindsight, it will all make sense.

I am sharing this story because I am Adam Lanza’s mother. I am Dylan Klebold’s and Eric Harris’s mother. I am James Holmes’s mother. I am Jared Loughner’s mother. I am Seung-Hui Cho’s mother. And these boys—and their mothers—need help. In the wake of another horrific national tragedy, it’s easy to talk about guns. But it’s time to talk about mental illness.

According to Mother Jones, since 1982, 61 mass murders involving firearms have occurred throughout the country. (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...-shootings-map). Of these, 43 of the killers were white males, and only one was a woman. Mother Jones focused on whether the killers obtained their guns legally (most did). But this highly visible sign of mental illness should lead us to consider how many people in the U.S. live in fear, like I do.

When I asked my son’s social worker about my options, he said that the only thing I could do was to get Michael charged with a crime. “If he’s back in the system, they’ll create a paper trail,” he said. “That’s the only way you’re ever going to get anything done. No one will pay attention to you unless you’ve got charges.”

I don’t believe my son belongs in jail. The chaotic environment exacerbates Michael’s sensitivity to sensory stimuli and doesn’t deal with the underlying pathology. But it seems like the United States is using prison as the solution of choice for mentally ill people. According to Human Rights Watch, the number of mentally ill inmates in U.S. prisons quadrupled from 2000 to 2006, and it continues to rise—in fact, the rate of inmate mental illness is five times greater (56 percent) than in the non-incarcerated population. (http://www.hrw.org/news/2006/09/05/u...ons-quadrupled)

With state-run treatment centers and hospitals shuttered, prison is now the last resort for the mentally ill—Rikers Island, the LA County Jail, and Cook County Jail in Illinois housed the nation’s largest treatment centers in 2011 (http://www.npr.org/2011/09/04/140167...-ill-prisoners)

No one wants to send a 13-year old genius who loves Harry Potter and his snuggle animal collection to jail. But our society, with its stigma on mental illness and its broken healthcare system, does not provide us with other options. Then another tortured soul shoots up a fast food restaurant. A mall. A kindergarten classroom. And we wring our hands and say, “Something must be done.”

I agree that something must be done. It’s time for a meaningful, nation-wide conversation about mental health. That’s the only way our nation can ever truly heal.

God help me. God help Michael. God help us all.

[djpenny]

lmfao

[keefy]

Had a few trolls convicted inthe UK lately.

[chrisw26308]

Thanks claude, I knew a kid like that when I was younger. Hes now in jail for life as he has commited violence towards others. Not letting him off the hook but adam clearly had mental issues.

I dont know what his mother wasbthinking teaching him how to shoot.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

[BoyBettaKnow]

And for the record, if you Brits really knew better like you claimed, then why is your violent crime rate MORE THAN 5 TIMES HIGHER THAN THE US?

Just wondering where you get that statistic from? Not looking to start anything as i generally enjoy reading your posts as more often than not they are interesting but whenever I look for murder rates, US has more than the UK

In the US – population 311.5 million (1) – there were an estimated 13,756 murders in 2009(2), a rate of about 5.0 per 100,000 (3). Of these 9,203 were carried out with a firearm.
In the UK – population 56.1 million (4) – there were an estimated 550 murders in 2011-12(5), a rate of about 1.4 per 100,000. Of these 39 were carried out with a firearm (6).

Source

Obviously i don't know how accurate that is but i'm interested to see where you are getting your numbers from.

Again, not trying to stir anything up, just interested to read more.

Edit: Reading your post again has answered my own question. I keep looking up murder rate, not violent crime rate. Anyone have any idea what constitutes to a violent crime? Is that things such as assaults, thefts, rapes and the like?

[claud3]

Thanks claude, I knew a kid like that when I was younger. Hes now in jail for life as he has commited violence towards others. Not letting him off the hook but adam clearly had mental issues.

I dont know what his mother wasbthinking teaching him how to shoot.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

Anytime mate

Sorry to hear, I have had friends that have suffered to over guns. None have died or put in jail

But memories of what they have witnessed over the troubles here

[keefy]

Just wondering where you get that statistic from? Not looking to start anything as i generally enjoy reading your posts as more often than not they are interesting but whenever I look for murder rates, US has more than the UK


Source

Obviously i don't know how accurate that is but i'm interested to see where you are getting your numbers from.

Again, not trying to stir anything up, just interested to read more.

Edit: Reading your post again has answered my own question. I keep looking up murder rate, not violent crime rate. Anyone have any idea what constitutes to a violent crime? Is that things such as assaults, thefts, rapes and the like?

Swings and roundabouts

guns vs violence

One isnt better to have than the other, nobody wins.

I have no idea where to get such stats from either.

[claud3]

Some times stats can be lies and put together and made to be worse than what they are

[J3ff3]

Put it this way... the u.s has a amendment that the right to bar arms, other nations do not

the uk's bill of rights includes a right to bear arms. as far as i'm aware we've just regulated that right with laws.

[BoyBettaKnow]

Swings and roundabouts

guns vs violence

One isnt better to have than the other, nobody wins.

I have no idea where to get such stats from either.

Yeah both bad as each other - I'd say I'm comfortable that we have a lower murder rate though.

Could it be argued that America has a higher murder rate due to guns being readily available so any crimes that had the potential of 'just' being a violent crime was turned into a murder?

Obviously I'm just speculating and talking out of my ass but still.

People are quick to find these numbers but I can't ever find up to date ones or don't know the sources to look at

[J3ff3]

It used to be taught in high schools in the past for example.

The issue is there are people who have such an irrational fear/hatred of guns that they believe nothing good can come of them. These people become very uncomfortable if they are in the presence of a gun. Hell some even take issue with police/military being armed. They unfortunately have a lot of power and are able to influence and shape our society in various ways.

In addition the people I mentioned above don't bother to properly inform themselves about guns to back their views. They are perfectly happy to run with any drivel that suits their agenda even if it is factually incorrect or based on lies.

It may shock you (and others here) but in addition to gun/hunter saftey being taught in high schools it was not uncommon in the past for high schools to have shooting teams, who practices in/around the school. (weapons were present in/around the school) Also during the hunting season it was not uncommon for students to have guns/ammunition in their cars in the school parking lot so they could go hunting after school ended. In those time's shooting like the one in CT were rare. Guns have been prevalent in the US for a long time. And you didn't have the prevalence of these sorts of acts then as you do in more recent history.

The culture changed, and because of that we have become more violent as a whole.

i grew up around rifles and shotguns.

i would prefer that people are taught about them, having had several shotguns pointed in my face by shorter friends who have swung round with the gun un-broken on their shoulder.

and i'm not surprised by anyone with hunting equipment being left in cars at school. what i am surprised about is that it would be allowed to have them loose in the vehicle, rather than in a locked box. its not an irrational fear of guns, its common sense. i'd similarly worry about someone with knives in their vehicle, or on their person - which is also not allowed in this country.

again, i don't worry about people having weapons, i worry about how they handle them, so to speak. leaving a weapon loose in a vehicle to me demonstrates a certain disregard for the weapon itself. and if laws are the only way to make people show a gun a little more respect, then so be it. this includes recinding the right of ownership to those that prove they cannot sensibly handle a weapon.

i don't see much wrong with that. are people really saying that responsibility shouldn't be a prerequisite for weapons?

[admartian]

Thanks claude, I knew a kid like that when I was younger. Hes now in jail for life as he has commited violence towards others. Not letting him off the hook but adam clearly had mental issues.

I dont know what his mother wasbthinking teaching him how to shoot.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

Very Interesting. Gong by Liza Long's blog; I think if you know what your child is like (case in point the ASM) then you wouldn't do something like that.

In regards to Lanza's mum, did she recognise any exhibition of instability from her son at an early age? Did he not show w any signs? Or did he show signs, but simply neglected it as a child 'acting up'?

[claud3]

All countries have some arms law that is balanced and fair...

It's the fact we all see the u.s.a version just that bit crazier

[MATRIX 2]

i grew up around rifles and shotguns.

i would prefer that people are taught about them, having had several shotguns pointed in my face by shorter friends who have swung round with the gun un-broken on their shoulder.

and i'm not surprised by anyone with hunting equipment being left in cars at school. what i am surprised about is that it would be allowed to have them loose in the vehicle, rather than in a locked box. its not an irrational fear of guns, its common sense. i'd similarly worry about someone with knives in their vehicle, or on their person - which is also not allowed in this country.

The guys were typically secured in gun racks in the vehicle.

Let me show you an example of the person I'm talking about:

http://splodetv.com/video/30-days-gun-nation-episode

[J3ff3]

The guys were typically secured in gun racks in the vehicle.

Let me show you an example of the person I'm talking about:

http://splodetv.com/video/30-days-gun-nation-episode

unfortunately i don't have sound on my pc, but will watch that later. also, i added a bit to my previous post.

[J3ff3]

@matrix - but if we're talking about concealed weapons then i definitely don't agree. i work in a bar, and too many arguments would escalate imo.

i can understand defense of your home and other recreational purposes, but if you can't conduct your daily life without a weapon, then something seriously needs fixing!