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  1. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by claud3 View Post
    That's the easy way out still mate....

    Not all gun criminals in America gun crime are mentally unbalanced....

    Look at the history of gun crime
    Again, crime is on a downward trend in the US. Given the sheer amount of guns we have for a population (88/100) we have remarkably low gun crime. Given our total population, our crime levels are also respectable.

    But all of these shootings were committed by disturbed individuals from what I have seen.

    People asking for tighter weapon regulation, when we already do background checks via NICS and other local measures (like here in Nebraska) and disallow fully automatic firearms.. That's the real band aid solution and red herring here.

    I blame the emasculation of men. We have told boys that their sex is evil and that they cannot be and do what they're inclined to do. On the one hand, we say all that but then on the other we still hold them to the archaic gender role\stereotype of "the provider" who must sacrifice happiness and fulfillment in order to get the biggest paycheck to attract a woman and raise a family.

    I think the majority of this has its roots in the various psycho-social factors hammering men these days.

    But I also blame how the villains of these events get all the recognition and infamy. They're world renowned, their names and deeds remembered (inter)nationally for decades by their "kill count". The media has a field day with this.

    Is it any wonder why copycats sprout up after this $#@! happens? Omaha (where I work) had a brief scare here in Nebraska when somebody stated that "big things" were going to happen and that people should watch the news at 9am.

    Just a hoax, right? It turned out that way. But it wasn't that way when THIS happened the day before the Von Maur shooting 2 min away from where I work:

    Last edited by Vulgotha; 12-19-2012 at 03:04.


  2. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Illustration of how pointless the 1994 AWB (Assault Weapon Ban) was on effecting crime. From the FBI themselves:

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...tables/table-1

    Nothing. Crime was on a downward trend and literally that 'ban' did nothing except jack up the prices of certain weapons (as they became scarce).

    It doesn't. Work.


    @Jeffe,

    What I'm saying is this entire generation of male youth in the US have been $#@!ed over hard. You want to tackle this? Start looking at how men have been degraded the past few decades and how teenagers are growing up. Pent up resentment, confusion and anger has only one way to go.

    These shootings are fairly rare. However, they're all committed by young men with a ton of emotional issues.

    I see a connection there. What lead to this? It's just like my first post in this thread, there's a ton of horrifying statistics for the average male in the US that nobody in the US, with their feminist agenda, seems to give two $#@!s about.

    Higher divorce rates, men killing themselves exponentially higher than women, living shorter, tons of broken homes, a disproportionate amount of male youth being thrown into jail- btw we arrest and lock up more people than any other western nation on the planet both in terms of raw numbers and proportionally- a system that has incentives in place to have more inmates.

    But yea, like, this is "placating the populace" and "nothing can be done" about this $#@! right?
    ah, well then that's not really just an issue of mental health - sorry i must have misread your post.

    yes, i agree with you. that's exactly why switzerland doesn't have gun crime, or really any crime. but then that's a huge ask. i'm not even sure it's possible to manufacture that when you consider that politicians look at the short, not long term. they talk about it, sure, but only in as much as it helps them in this or the next term.

    and what i meant in my previous post by 'placating' was that the sorts of care and money that would be needed to 'fix' the country's mental health (ie a $#@!ing awesome universal healthcare) would cause just as much political resistance and controversy as gun control, whilst being much more difficult to implement, so i wouldn't have seen it as anything more than empty words really.
    Last edited by J3ff3; 12-19-2012 at 03:12.
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  3. #503
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Again, crime is on a downward trend in the US. Given the sheer amount of guns we have for a population (88/100) we have remarkably low gun crime. Given our total population, our crime levels are also respectable.

    But all of these shootings were committed by disturbed individuals from what I have seen.

    People asking for tighter weapon regulation, when we already do background checks via NICS and other local measures (like here in Nebraska) and disallow fully automatic firearms.. That's the real band aid solution and red herring here.

    I blame the emasculation of men. We have told boys that their sex is evil and that they cannot be and do what they're inclined to do. On the one hand, we say all that but then on the other we still hold them to the archaic gender role\stereotype of "the provider" who must sacrifice happiness and fulfillment in order to get the biggest paycheck to attract a woman and raise a family.

    I think the majority of this has its roots in the various psycho-social factors hammering men these days.
    Why because people say so.... I am a normal person and yet I can go and kill a $#@! load of people for no reason, I could write a note of my reasons....

    Who automatically puts two and two together and comes up with the third answer and says I am mentally unstable....

    You can not throw a label at someone that might not or might be mentally screwed up....

    It makes no sense
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    Sorry, I'm just livid. As mad as I've been in a very long while.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Sorry, I'm just livid. As mad as I've been in a very long while.
    no, don't be put off, what you say makes alot of sense. i'd still personally combine it with more than background checks when applying for licences - i don't see why a background check couldn't be bolstered by a face to face meeting, but its working out how you make certain demographics feel less disenfranchised.

    these are fundamental changes to society that again, like gun control - or perhaps its better to phrase it 'education', will probably have their critics as its very difficult to quantify in the short run.
    Last edited by J3ff3; 12-19-2012 at 03:20.
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    Originally Posted by Vulgotha Sorry, I'm just livid. As mad as I've been in a very long while.
    Look mate we all have come to a stage were it's a cross nations debate, from the UK to America

    How this has came about is amazing... But we will support how you are American brothers deal with this
    Last edited by claud3; 12-19-2012 at 03:23.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Again, crime is on a downward trend in the US. Given the sheer amount of guns we have for a population (88/100) we have remarkably low gun crime. Given our total population, our crime levels are also respectable.

    But all of these shootings were committed by disturbed individuals from what I have seen.

    People asking for tighter weapon regulation, when we already do background checks via NICS and other local measures (like here in Nebraska) and disallow fully automatic firearms.. That's the real band aid solution and red herring here.

    I blame the emasculation of men. We have told boys that their sex is evil and that they cannot be and do what they're inclined to do. On the one hand, we say all that but then on the other we still hold them to the archaic gender role\stereotype of "the provider" who must sacrifice happiness and fulfillment in order to get the biggest paycheck to attract a woman and raise a family.

    I think the majority of this has its roots in the various psycho-social factors hammering men these days.

    But I also blame how the villains of these events get all the recognition and infamy. They're world renowned, their names and deeds remembered (inter)nationally for decades by their "kill count". The media has a field day with this.

    Is it any wonder why copycats sprout up after this $#@! happens? Omaha (where I work) had a brief scare here in Nebraska when somebody stated that "big things" were going to happen and that people should watch the news at 9am.

    Just a hoax, right? It turned out that way. But it wasn't that way when THIS happened the day before the Von Maur shooting 2 min away from where I work:

    Eh? I don't know if thathas anything (at least any significant correlation or causation) to do with it. Though it is a very frustrating notion.


    It really is attention + mentally unstable * (access to killing machines) = disaster. With killing machines (in this case, guns) being a multiplier rather than the cause. Though what the hell do I know? I'm not a mental health expert or a social scientist.

    But I think "crazy" is definitely the biggest factor.

    I dunno, I just don't think can blame everything on them,, but you can't say it has NOTHING to do with it.

    Either case, it's terrible these things happen regardless of weapon(s) used.
    Last edited by Admartian; 12-19-2012 at 03:22.
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    Quote Originally Posted by claud3 View Post
    Look mate we all have come to a stage were it's a cross nations debate, from the UK to America

    How this has came about is amazing... But we will support how you are American brothers deal with this
    what?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Illustration of how pointless the 1994 AWB (Assault Weapon Ban) was on effecting crime. From the FBI themselves:

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...tables/table-1

    Nothing. Crime was on a downward trend and literally that 'ban' did nothing except jack up the prices of certain weapons (as they became scarce).

    It doesn't. Work.
    oh and i wasn't suggesting a ban on auto weapons, or any weapons. i was suggesting that weapons are somehow more appropriately allocated and handled. that's very different to a blanket ban, as it accomodates education and targeting illegal weapons. i don't see why that has to threaten anyone, or anyone's views, unless you honestly believe that anyone, regardless of their emotional and mental state, should be able to access a weapon.

    i do however agree that promoting a sense of belonging and purpose is very important for preventing these sorts of things, i just thinks its very hard to achieve.
    Last edited by J3ff3; 12-19-2012 at 03:43.
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  10. #510
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    Wake up mate and understand cross nations debate

    Because what happens in the u.s, affects what happens in the UK

    Do you actually think 1776 was an American thimg
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    Quote Originally Posted by claud3 View Post
    Wake up mate and understand cross nations debate

    Because what happens in the u.s, affects what happens in the UK

    Do you actually think 1776 was an American thimg
    i'm sorry, i actually just don't understand what you are talking about.

    i don't care where they come from, i'm just trying to have a discussion with out stirring this into some sort of 'them vs us' debate.
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    Mate it's cool... Its not them vs us

    It's the understanding, that what happens in the U.S will affect the UK
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    i don't see the link. its been mentioned that its the unique make up of the US and the concentration of weapons that make other nations experiences completely distinct, whether that be switzerland with its low crime and guns, or the uk with high crime and lack of them. they are two polar opposites that each argument tends to fall back on, with each being reasonably inappropriate comparisons without a significant amount of policy change.

    i don't see this affecting the uk greatly at all.



    $#@! it, i've got to be up in 6 hours....
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    A history lesson is to long mate
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    usa should give up guns they haven't won a war with them lol j/king



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    It's like a political truth search... mate not going to happen
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    maybe the shooter wanted guns laws changed , you use action over words

    think about it whats the best way to changed gun laws

    use guns what they are made for
    throw in a few kids
    everybody talks about changed the laws
    then new laws are made
    Last edited by -Dj-; 12-19-2012 at 04:43.



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    Then all actions are towards that mindset and it ended up a real thing
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    Quote Originally Posted by djpenny View Post
    maybe the shooter wanted guns laws changed , you use action over words

    think about it whats the best way to changed gun laws

    use guns what they are made for
    throw in a few kids
    everybody talks about changed the laws
    then new laws are made
    u mean like a martyr?

    They said he did destroy his Computer, maybe he was reached out by someone through the net who manipulated him to do such act.

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    Twenty-one pages into the thread and we're pretending to know what the guy was thinking so we can try and push our own political agendas. =/

    The story that makes the most sense right now is that his warped mental and emotional state led him to believe that his mother cared more about the elementary school he shot up than himself. That he was afraid of getting committed.
    Last edited by Metal King Slime; 12-19-2012 at 08:23.
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    What the $#@! is going on in this thread anymore.


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    Quote Originally Posted by claud3 View Post
    That's the easy way out still mate....

    Not all gun criminals in America gun crime are mentally unbalanced....

    Look at the history of gun crime
    I don't think he's quite saying that. What I got was how men are treated by society in general. Men get pushed around a lot because we're, well... men. When you get pushed long and hard enough, you're gonna let some steam out sooner or later. The weapons aren't the problem, it's society as a whole. If you push someone past their limit, they're going to strike back and it's not going to be pleasant. In today's society, men have it rough. For women, it's the complete opposite.

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    People be hating like never before...just going crazy...this sorta $#@!s almost daily now. Its depressing when you realise that even tho your surprised and shocked when a event like this happens, inevitably, your not really. What the hell is happening to humanity?

    Focus on the 'why' is this happening?

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    Last edited by jj03; 12-19-2012 at 08:40.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacksite View Post
    Twenty-one pages into the thread and we're pretending to know what the guy was thinking so we can try and push our own political agendas. =/

    The story that makes the most sense right now is that his warped mental and emotional state led him to believe that his mother cared more about the elementary school he shot up than himself. That he was afraid of getting committed.
    You have a link to this, I haven't been able to fin anything along those lines here from the UK press.


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    They are just saying he is mentally unstable, because it's just so easy to attach that label to him...
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