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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronSOLDIER View Post
    It's pretty clear which of the two bring more unique and new experiences to the table, I think you need to step back and take a look yourself, this isn't subjective at all, it's clear as crystal Sony have taken more risks this gen with new IPs and ideas.
    Whatever, lets cut half there offerings of the table as derivatives of established genres and you are left with Farenheit 2 and LBP.

    Who developed the third person cover based shooter? Wasn't Sony.
    Who risked an established genre by making an RTS out of it? Wasn't Sony.
    Who created an entire genre out of a bunch of piniata's growing a garden? Wasnt Sony.

    What outside of LBP did they do that was risk taking and genre defining?

    Where can you play a console version of the biggest phenomenon in a long time on? Not Sonys.

    Keep your plethora of shooters.

    I will give Sony props for wrapping up Fahrenheit 2 though.

    BTW MAG, LAIR, Socom were not risks, there were just poor executions.
    Last edited by mynd; 12-31-2012 at 15:16.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronSOLDIER View Post
    It's pretty clear which of the two bring more unique and new experiences to the table, I think you need to step back and take a look yourself, this isn't subjective at all, it's clear as crystal Sony have taken more risks this gen with new IPs and ideas.
    It's not subjective? Get outta town!

  3. #103
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    Oh i forgot home. Thats was definitely a risk.
    Not a new idea though. But definitely a risk.

    Last of us definitely is a risk. Its late and definatley could be genre defining if it is executed right.
    And that western RPG they are developing...oh wait they'd rather make another shooter.
    Or that awesome open world racing game they aren't making.
    Last edited by mynd; 12-31-2012 at 15:32.

  4. #104
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    But isn't the point of diversity of too hit different demographics right.

    Sesame Street TV does that and as I showed in the videos is some pretty innovative stuff.

    Your able to buy on disc or using the app which gives you 8 interactive episodes and a while slew of on demand content from the sesame workshop. It seems to be selling well enough to have been greenlit for a 2nd season.


    The problem here is that you guys see diverse as only the types of games and not the actual demographics your trying to get.


    For all this talk of Sony has the exclusive games we really haven't seen it pay off in spades as much as Nintendo/Microsoft blue ocean strategies have.

    My uncle just bought a 360 for Christmas. Not to play Halo or anything but because of the sports apps and the Nike+ game that integrates with his Nike+ fuel band.,

    So while you guys laugh at the whole apps and kinect ' you fail to see that a console with only a focus on games will die in the oncoming generation. The main reason why the 360 grew on the first place was Netflix and with the rise of boxes like the apple TV and google TV/fiber now is the time too start cultivating these partnerships to make the transtion better for the next gen something Sony has failed to do.



    Ecosystem is king and honestly Sony has a pretty $#@!ty one.


    Even on the games front for next gen Microsoft has building up its studios for a while now.

    America
    343 industries
    Turn 10
    Good Science Studios
    Twisted Pixel
    Kids and Life style entertainment
    Microsoft Studios Los Angeles
    Microsoft studios mobile gaming
    Platform next studios
    Playful learning
    Microsoft Studios redmond publishing
    Skybox sports

    Canada
    Black Tusk Studios
    Big park
    Microsoft Studios Victoria

    Europe
    Rare
    Lion head
    Soho productions
    Press play
    Microsoft Studios London

    Just can't agree that sony is doing the unique stuff this generation. I don't see them green lighting 2D stealth games or cross platform turn base strategy games.

    Hell there attempt at motion control brought nothing nre at the table. I'd ah rue nothing is touching Kinect/viva pinatan in forms of unquie game styles.

    I mean I can control my whole experience with just my hand and my voice which is incredible when you think how this year was the rise of siri and Google now and Microsoft had been doing this since 2010.




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  5. #105
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    Sonys biggest issue this genre were that the studios were ordered to make more realistic games in order to compete with Microsoft. And then spent way to much time trying to chase the shooter market.

    They also lost there biggest advocate for family friendly games, who now works for Microsoft.

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    Yeah its weird how the 360 is called the shooter box when Sony has put out a ton of shooters. I mean even they,re free to play game is a shooter compared to Happy Wars and Ascend at Microsoft.


    Really kind of worried that we might see Don't try that again for the PS4. They so far are trying this with the vita having around three shooters released in a short time frame and another announced for next year. Hoping to see more sly cooper games and the like.


    Another thing I think Sony needs to find is not just an IP but a brand. Look at how pokemon sales regardless of quality and all of the cart tons and card games behind it. Halo is the same way with a slew of novels, short films, and comic books. Sony really needs a defining brand that can hit the mainstream.

    Also as much as people dislike Microsoft's retail approach to only a few games it works because they pick all of the games that have mass appeal and don't overlap. Right now they have

    Halo- biggest IP they have by far.

    Gear of war- Microsoft will pay to keep this and epics next game exclusive.

    Fable- easily digestible WRPG. Beyond journey tanking the series puts up respectable numbers and does well in bundles.

    Forza- its a good racing game. I blame lack of real advertising for horizon failing despite being a critical darling.

    Kinect something - not for the audience of this site but people like Kinect sport/dance central.

    Then Microsoft wants Alan Wake to become a franchise and has Ryse on the way. They also have a good digital footprint with stuff like dust, skulls of the shogun, super time force, crimson dragon.

    I will say Microsoft had really off advertising this year with little to no advertising for forza horizon and fable the journey. I think that has to do with with having three big product launches but it meant two good games tanked.








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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronSOLDIER View Post
    It's pretty clear which of the two bring more unique and new experiences to the table, I think you need to step back and take a look yourself, this isn't subjective at all, it's clear as crystal Sony have taken more risks this gen with new IPs and ideas.
    Too right mate. I think I could get away with having just a PS3 - just a 360? Nah not so sure about that. Good thing I have both though!

    @Shingi - if anything, the Vita needs a shooter! Of real quality, that is. Unit 13 was ace, the two Nihilistic games are laughable. The system needs a top quality FPS stat

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    Quote Originally Posted by shingi70 View Post
    Yeah its weird how the 360 is called the shooter box when Sony has put out a ton of shooters. I mean even they,re free to play game is a shooter compared to Happy Wars and Ascend at Microsoft.
    Thing is they still cover pretty much every genre

    Shooters: KZ, Resistance
    Racing: Gran Turismo, MotorStorm, ModNation, LBPK
    Platforming: Ratchet, Sly, LBP
    Action Adventure: GoW, UC
    Horror: Siren, Until Dawn
    Sports: The Show Series, Sports Champions
    Fighting: The Fight, PSASBR
    +Unique genres such as Journey, PAIN, Fat Princess
    Just from 1st/2nd Party

    The only genre they've not bothered with this gen is RPG, which seems like a dying genre all round, only Bethesda seem able to keep it alive.

    The same can't be said for MS, they mainly only cover 2-3 genres fully.

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    Would be cool to see a Sony RPG. That whiteknight chronicles has it's fans but I mean something from a Western dev. Imagine if Stig is working on a RPG

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    I own both consoles but I still prefer the PS3.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitey View Post
    Would be cool to see a Sony RPG. That whiteknight chronicles has it's fans but I mean something from a Western dev. Imagine if Stig is working on a RPG
    Forgot about WK and Demon's Souls, but yeah I really hope SSM is working on a WRPG, that would totally make me buy PS4 much earlier than I want to. ND has made RPGs in the past too but it's unlikely they'll make another with the amount of time and effort that's needed nowadays.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    I hope I can quote you on that this time next year.
    You sure can. I'll even send you a pic of me playing God of War: Acension and The Last of Us.


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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Oh i forgot home. Thats was definitely a risk.
    Not a new idea though. But definitely a risk.
    But Home wasn't a game ip, and if you're going to say Home was a risk, so were Gamercards and Achievements. And unlike Home, Gamercards and Achievements were so successful that the competition raced to copy them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronSOLDIER View Post
    Forgot about WK and Demon's Souls, but yeah I really hope SSM is working on a WRPG, that would totally make me buy PS4 much earlier than I want to. ND has made RPGs in the past too but it's unlikely they'll make another with the amount of time and effort that's needed nowadays.
    Would be nicer to see than some of the genres Sony has dabbled in, I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by AaronSOLDIER View Post
    Thing is they still cover pretty much every genre

    Shooters: KZ, Resistance vs Halo & Gears.
    Racing: Gran Turismo, MotorStorm, ModNation, LBPK vs Forza MS, Forza Horizon, PGR
    Platforming: Ratchet, Sly, LBP vs Kameo, Banjo, Shadow Complex
    Action Adventure: GoW, UC
    Horror: Siren, Until Dawn vs Alan Wake
    Sports: The Show Series, Sports Champions
    Fighting: The Fight, PSASBR
    +Unique genres such as Journey, PAIN, Fat Princess vs Viva Pinata, Dance Central, Kinect Sports, Viva Pinata:PA
    Just from 1st/2nd Party

    The only genre they've not bothered with this gen is RPG, an open world racer, a RTS and a Simulator games which seems like a dying genre all round, only Bethesda, Bioware, and Big Huge Games (defunct through no fault of there own, seem able to keep it alive.

    The same can't be said for MS, they mainly only cover 2-3 genres fully.
    Just fixed that for you to show how your perception does not equal reality.

    About the only genres Sony manage to become "unique" in is action adventure,fighting and sports, and yet they miss out on WRPGS, RTS, Open world Racers, Street Racers, Sims.

    In terms of fighting you only have to delve into XBLA to find some. Not a genre worthy of full RRP.
    Last edited by mynd; 12-31-2012 at 22:02.

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  18. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronSOLDIER View Post
    Thing is they still cover pretty much every genre

    Shooters: KZ, Resistance
    Racing: Gran Turismo, MotorStorm, ModNation, LBPK
    Platforming: Ratchet, Sly, LBP
    Action Adventure: GoW, UC
    Horror: Siren, Until Dawn
    Sports: The Show Series, Sports Champions
    Fighting: The Fight, PSASBR
    +Unique genres such as Journey, PAIN, Fat Princess
    Just from 1st/2nd Party

    The only genre they've not bothered with this gen is RPG, which seems like a dying genre all round, only Bethesda seem able to keep it alive.

    The same can't be said for MS, they mainly only cover 2-3 genres fully.

    What's it like living in a bubble and not knowing what you're talking about?

    Let's do a reality check, shall we?

    Shooters: Halo and Gears of War
    Racing: Forza and Project Gotham Racing
    Platforming: Kameo, Mark of the Ninja
    Action/Adventure: Kinect Adventure, Banjo Kazooie, Ninety Nine Knights, Too Human
    Horror: Alan Wake, Deadlight
    RPG: Fable, Mass Effect, Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon
    Sports: Kinect Sports,
    Party Games: Viva Pinata Pary Animals, Fusion Frenzy
    Sandbox Games: Crackdown

    And then there are games like Dance Central, Lips, Scene It, Kinectimals, and Viva Pinata which do not fit into easily named genres. In fact, about 80% of the games MS has published this generation are NOT shooters. Of course, a blind Sony zealot would never admit to that, but it is a fact. Don't believe me? See for yourself.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...udios#Xbox_360

    And for real fun, check out the XBLA games MS has published. Claiming that MS only publishes shooters is something small minded little children say when they aren't smart enough to fact check before posting.

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  20. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    But Home wasn't a game ip, and if you're going to say Home was a risk, so were Gamercards and Achievements. And unlike Home, Gamercards and Achievements were so successful that the competition raced to copy them.
    So Home wasn't successful even though it continually posts millions of dollars in profit? How much do achievements make?

    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Platforming: Ratchet, Sly, LBP vs Kameo, Banjo, Shadow Complex
    Apart from Shadow Complex those games don't even come close to Sony's platformers. You'd have to go back 15 years to see some REAL platformers by RARE, they're nothing compared to what they used to be, ask anyone who has played their games from the beginning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    What's it like living in a bubble and not knowing what you're talking about?
    You tell me.

    Shooters: Halo and Gears of War
    Racing: Forza and Project Gotham Racing
    Platforming: Kameo, Mark of the Ninja
    Action/Adventure: Banjo Kazooie, Ninety Nine Knights
    Horror: Alan Wake, Deadlight
    RPG: Fable, Mass Effect, Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon
    Sports: -
    Party Games: Fusion Frenzy
    Sandbox Games: Crackdown
    Removed the shovelware, I didn't list any so you cant either. (I actually forgot infamous in my previous post but oh well), that goes under Action/Adventure anyway though, sandbox isn't really a genre but more of a design, otherwise you could put Fallout, World of Warcraft etc. under it which makes no sense.

    And then there are games like Dance Central, Lips, Scene It, Kinectimals, and Viva Pinata which do not fit into easily named genres.
    They fit under casual, and they were pretty much ideas that came from Sony who took the risk with them first, funny that.

    A Sony zealot? lol you're one to talk with your head shoved so far up Microsofts ass in pretty much any thread. I own plenty of systems/games/accessories from many different companies and don't feel the need to defend them as much as you or some others on here do.

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  21. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronSOLDIER View Post
    So Home wasn't successful even though it continually posts millions of dollars in profit? How much do achievements make?
    How do they make money off Home?
    Also, achievements? Their worth could not be counted, it would be huge.


    Apart from Shadow Complex those games don't even come close to Sony's platformers. You'd have to go back 15 years to see some REAL platformers by RARE, they're nothing compared to what they used to be, ask anyone who has played their games from the beginning.
    Oh your doing Kameo a huge dis-service there.

    You tell me.



    Removed the shovelware, I didn't list any so you cant either. (I actually forgot infamous in my previous post but oh well), that goes under Action/Adventure anyway though, sandbox isn't really a genre but more of a design, otherwise you could put Fallout, World of Warcraft etc. under it which makes no sense.
    There's plenty of shovelware and games that havent even been released in your list (LBPK, Untill dawn, The Fight).
    They fit under casual, and they were pretty much ideas that came from Sony who took the risk with them first, funny that.
    And they dropped them, which is why Phil left.

    A Sony zealot? lol you're one to talk with your head shoved so far up Microsofts ass in pretty much any thread. I own plenty of systems/games/accessories from many different companies and don't feel the need to defend them as much as you or some others on here do.
    I think his point would be that you should at least "know" what the competition has in it's genre's..

    Look I'm never going to say Sony don't have diversity, but I aint going to say MS doesn't either.

    And you cant simply dismiss games because they "don't come close".

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    How do they make money off Home?
    Also, achievements? Their worth could not be counted, it would be huge.
    Virtual items and company advertisements, the same way many MMOs make their money from free accounts/players. (and no I'm not saying Home is an MMO before someone thinks that I am).

    There's plenty of shovelware and games that havent even been released in your list (LBPK, Untill dawn, The Fight).
    What? Other than Until Dawn they've all been released.

    And they dropped them, which is why Phil left.
    They dropped them because they wanted to move on from Hands Free gaming because they said it was too limiting, after playing EyeToy Play you've pretty much done everything a camera alone has to offer. Not sure what that has to do with Phil at all though.

    I think his point would be that you should at least "know" what the competition has in it's genre's..
    Yet you thought that a bunch of games in my list weren't released yet they were, The Fight especially which was released 2 or so years back. I guess we could both do a bit more research but my original post was once again misread, I didn't say they ONLY released shooters and racers, but that's definitely where they're market is and what they do best/mostly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronSOLDIER View Post
    Virtual items and company advertisements, the same way many MMOs make their money from free accounts/players. (and no I'm not saying Home is an MMO before someone thinks that I am).
    Oh ok, didnt know they made money.


    What? Other than Until Dawn they've all been released.
    But they are shovelware. Sorry I should have said "or games that havent been released" not "and games thta havent been released" just to clarify what I was saying.

    They dropped them because they wanted to move on from Hands Free gaming because they said it was too limiting, after playing EyeToy Play you've pretty much done everything a camera alone has to offer. Not sure what that has to do with Phil at all though.
    They dropped their casual game focus period. They told all their studios to make "realistic" looking games.
    Its only recently they have woken up and realised what a mistake that was,

    Yet you thought that a bunch of games in my list weren't released yet they were, The Fight especially which was released 2 or so years back.
    See above.
    Last edited by mynd; 12-31-2012 at 23:02.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Oh ok, didnt know they made money.
    They made something like $10 million in the first few months in launched. This was in 2008 when Sony was just starting to turn things around, so it's been a good investment for them.

    But they are shovelware. Sorry I should have said "or games that havent been released" not "and games thta havent been released" just to clarify what I was saying.
    Well I've had this debate countless times so I'll just say this: a game rated E/3+ isn't automatically a casual game, nor games that use Motion devices. We haven't played Until Dawn yet but tbh I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up being better than Resident Evil 6 which was the biggest disappointment of 2012 by far. It's got a strong Silent Hill 1/2 feeling to it and so far looks pretty decent so I'll be keeping it on my radar.

    They dropped their casual game focus period. They told all their studios to make "realistic" looking games.
    Its only recently they have woken up and realised what a mistake that was,
    100% Wrong. London Studio - Sony's main casual studio who has made nothing but casual games for the last 12 years + has been pumping out tons of casual series: Singstar, Buzz, EyeToy games, Eye Pet etc. etc. they've not once released a core game to my knowledge, and MS has "copied" if you like, all of them except Buzz up to this point.

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    I forgot about Home. Now that I have a 500gig hdd I should redownload it. Wonder how long that would take?

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    All about that PlayStation diversity. Can't beat it ! imoetc

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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronSOLDIER View Post
    They made something like $10 million in the first few months in launched. This was in 2008 when Sony was just starting to turn things around, so it's been a good investment for them.



    Well I've had this debate countless times so I'll just say this: a game rated E/3+ isn't automatically a casual game, nor games that use Motion devices. We haven't played Until Dawn yet but tbh I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up being better than Resident Evil 6 which was the biggest disappointment of 2012 by far. It's got a strong Silent Hill 1/2 feeling to it and so far looks pretty decent so I'll be keeping it on my radar.



    100% Wrong. London Studio - Sony's main casual studio who has made nothing but casual games for the last 12 years + has been pumping out tons of casual series: Singstar, Buzz, EyeToy games, Eye Pet etc. etc. they've not once released a core game to my knowledge, and MS has "copied" if you like, all of them except Buzz up to this point.
    I'm not wrong, Sony did tell their development studios to do this, that is a fact.
    Phil did leave because of this, that's also a fact.
    London Studios is so small they can't make anything else. 95% of what they have produced has been title updates.
    And they do not make the buzz games BTW.

    But, when I say casual, I also mean family friendly, it seems to be one in the same thing to many.

  28. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by radgamer420 View Post
    I forgot about Home. Now that I have a 500gig hdd I should redownload it. Wonder how long that would take?
    I wouldn't waste your time lol, it's not that much better than what it once was, if you didn't liek it before you probably still won't.

    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    I'm not wrong, Sony did tell their development studios to do this, that is a fact.
    Do you have proof? I don't recall this and like I said London Studio have been making them non stop since the early PS2 days.

    Phil did leave because of this, that's also a fact.
    Do you have proof of this also? I didn't read too much into Phil's story but I remember vaguely that he wanted to move on to new things as he'd been at Sony for long enough and wanted to do something else in the industry.

    London Studios is so small they can't make anything else.
    And you cant simply dismiss games because they "don't come close".
    Or too small, they continued to make them even if Sony did cease production on casual games as you claim they did.

    95% of what they have produced has been title updates.
    Semi true, it's because now we have the option of DLC, so there's no need to rerelease the same game with different tracks on a yearly basis, though some other publishers do, and people are fine throwing money their way regardless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronSOLDIER View Post
    I wouldn't waste your time lol, it's not that much better than what it once was, if you didn't liek it before you probably still won't.



    Do you have proof? I don't recall this and like I said London Studio have been making them non stop since the early PS2 days.
    It was outed recently,cant remember who, maybe ND, or Insomniac were directed by Sony to make games more realistic as this was their push fro all their studios.

    Ah found it!

    "So the big push from Sony, not just at Naughty Dog but at all of Sony's development companies at the time, was to craft games for PlayStation 3 that were much more realistic. The pressure from Xbox's success with gritty shooters was a very real force on our direction at that time."
    http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1063301...uncharted.html


    Do you have proof of this also? I didn't read too much into Phil's story but I remember vaguely that he wanted to move on to new things as he'd been at Sony for long enough and wanted to do something else in the industry.
    Ill have to have a hunt, but I have read quotes attributed directly to Harrison.


    Or too small, they continued to make them even if Sony did cease production on casual games as you claim they did.
    Not a claim.


    Semi true, it's because now we have the option of DLC, so there's no need to rerelease the same game with different tracks on a yearly basis, though some other publishers do, and people are fine throwing money their way regardless.
    Have you seen Microsoft new Karaoke channel? 8000 songs available.

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