Sony files patent to stop second-hand game sales

[TDbank24]

I'm not really worried about used games being unplayable next generation. All that would mean is i would cut back on gaming. Which is a good thing. I don't want to see it happen but oh well.

Now if they go full digital distribution then i'm done altogether.

[$Greatness$]

no chip off my shoulder, i buy all my games new



-this isn't directed at you but more the reason-

release dates are told months in advance. even now, there are people clamoring for any tidbit of info they can get for GTA's release date. Save the money beforehand. problem solved. you can buy any game you want that way o.O

as for how this hurts sony guys...
how does this hurt sony when used games directly hurt sony?

i don't get the thinking....
are you that petty to not support a console trying to get back sales where they make their money? Profit comes from game sales, the console is sold to you at a loss.

used games = death of gaming.

lol, death of gaming? You can't be that naive. This is a multi-billion dollar industry that won't be going anywhere anytime soon unless the big corporations continue to strip away the consumer rights. This is nothing but greed. Just take a look at the Call of Duty Franchise. Do you think Kotick gives a damn aboout second hand sales or online passes? No. Why? Because his franchise sells and he's racking in the big bucks. Don't buy into that excuse about losing money.

People are going to buy what they want to buy. When you limit that, you're alienating your consumers. OK, I might not have enough to buy Uncharted 1 new, but I bought it used, loved it so much I'm going to buy Uncharted 2 on release brand new. You're banking on future profits and business. That's why they make consoles at a loss.

Do you think it's fair that I buy Madden Brand new on release, decide to sell it but according you guy if I want to buy it back I need to buy it again brand new? Fuck outta here. I supported you the first go around and you have my money. Why should I have to buy it again from at $39.99-59.99 when I can get it for $19.99 off Ebay, cracklist or anything else?

Don't let the Corporations have us by the nuts. They're already 80% there. And its a damn shame.

[Fon]

lol, death of gaming? You can't be that naive. This is a multi-billion dollar industry that won't be going anywhere anytime soon unless the big corporations continue to strip away the consumer rights. This is nothing but greed. Just take a look at the Call of Duty Franchise. Do you think Kotick gives a damn aboout second hand sales or online passes? No. Why? Because his franchise sells and he's racking in the big bucks. Don't buy into that excuse about losing money.

People are going to buy what they want to buy. When you limit that, you're alienating your consumers. OK, I might not have enough to buy Uncharted 1 new, but I bought it used, loved it so much I'm going to buy Uncharted 2 on release brand new. You're banking on future profits and business. That's why they make consoles at a loss.

Do you think it's fair that I buy Madden Brand new on release, decide to sell it but according you guy if I want to buy it back I need to buy it again brand new? Fuck outta here. I supported you the first go around and you have my money. Why should I have to buy it again from at $39.99-59.99 when I can get it for $19.99 off Ebay, cracklist or anything else?

Don't let the Corporations have us by the nuts. They're already 80% there. And its a damn shame.

Exactly what Online Passes are destroying. They're practically shooing away a potential future fanbase that will buy their next games. Want more money?: Make games that will leave an impression to the masses because they will most likely purchase your next game due to the hype game number 2 and beyond will generate.

Another reason being that you can't let your family or friends borrow games to potentially generate said hype. If you restrict gamers with online passes and deny that nice chain of potential consumer base, guess what's going to happen?: They'll skip the next game due to lack of interest, its not fun having such a restriction placed on you.

Gamers shouldn't be so passive about potential moves like these. This may very well be a patent that might not see the light of day but since they adopted Online Passes then I wouldn't be surprised if this is considered seriously in the future.

[$Greatness$]

Exactly what Online Passes are destroying. They're practically shooing away a potential future fanbase that will buy their next games. Want more money?: Make games that will leave an impression to the masses because they will most likely purchase your next game due to the hype game number 2 and beyond will generate.

Another reason being that you can't let your family or friends borrow games to potentially generate said hype. If you restrict gamers with online passes and deny that nice chain of potential consumer base, guess what's going to happen?: They'll skip the next game due to lack of interest, its not fun having such a restriction placed on you.

Gamers shouldn't be so passive about potential moves like these. This may very well be a patent that might not see the light of day but since they adopted Online Passes then I wouldn't be surprised if this is considered seriously in the future.

It's mind-boggling how people apologize for the big corps who don't two shits about your life and money, but I'm supposed to care about them. World is filled with crazies.

[Silver_Knight]

When there wasn't, Gamestop, we just went to Walmart to get our games new. I don't care if you ban used games or not. You can say your done, but as long as Sony brings the game, I'll be a customer. Also, if you want used games then you can buy them from online retailers like Amazon and Ebay. Used games will never be totally out of the picture but getting rid of big retailers, like gamestop, is probably their plan.This is no big deal imo.As for hurting Sony, I doubt it. The games will bring the customers and Sony will have them.

[robvandam111]

I don't see this as a negative thing anymore. Our generation is passing by, and how many times do we end up going to friends' house to play videogames while you own the game? It's kind of the other way for me. They come to play the games, not me bringing it. If this is the first few steps for Sony to start digital downloads. Go ahead.

[DarkVincent07]

I just don't see it happening. Sony has patented this and there are documents for the PS2 and PS3 having something like this.


If Sony jump in and do it the backlash will be too great and no one will buy it

[Syphon_Filter]

Its bad for those who share games and as you said. We don't buy all games as brand new unless its a good title and most have. I think this is a bad move and not many people will buy Sonys product.

Ohh and also I have forgot to mention. No one will be able to sell the game after and which means you have lost your money and can't make any money on the game if it can't be played on any second console.

[DarkVincent07]

Ohh and also I have forgot to mention. No one will be able to sell the game after and which means you have lost your money and can't make any money on the game if it can't be played on any second console.

Worst part is good luck tracking down an old game in a few years time... The only option will be digital which is horrible.

But I realllyyy don't see this happening

[Suzano-O]

Are you telling me you don't see a problem with this? I don't get your thinking.... are you that petty to not understand what this could do to the gamer? That would mean no more renting games, so that means no try before you buy. If I buy a game and hate it, it would mean I cant trade it in and get some of my money back. It would put gaming retail shops in huge trouble. Where would we buy are games from then? I buy all my games new too but I know a few people that buy pre owned as they cant afford to buy all the games they want brand new. If Sony does this they are fucked big time.

Take away used games = death of gaming

What makes you think you, or anyone else, is entitled to trying a game before they buy it?...
That's always been a privilege granted to you by marketers, not a right...
Having said that, tho, I do agree that, if Sony were the only company to implement this on their console, it would definitely hurt them, beyond the money they aren't receiving from the sale of new games...

I don't think it'll be the death of gaming tho; consumers will just adapt...
They've already taken away "used" online gaming, and how much has that hurt the industry?...yet prior to, every Tom, Dick, and Harry would preach relentlessly about how online passes would ruin sales...

[Fijiandoce]

[A DISCLAIMER AS IS NEEDED ON PSU]
"used games = death of gaming" - a phrase used to 'emphasize' the seriousness of the used game market. in no way intended to be taken as a literal matter of fact.
used games are in fact bad for the industry. it stunts cash flow for developers.

Another reason being that you can't let your family or friends borrow games to potentially generate said hype. If you restrict gamers with online passes and deny that nice chain of potential consumer base, guess what's going to happen?: They'll skip the next game due to lack of interest, its not fun having such a restriction placed on you.

that is simply fallacy. i told a friend of mine about how much i was enjoying Mirrors Edge. how much i loved its art style. the constrained sense of freedom.
he lives in the US, there was no way for me to "lend" him my game. i got him hyped up, he went and bought it.
he is more pumped for Mirrors Edge 2 than i am, in fact, he is the one hyping me now. every piece of info released he reads and passes on to me.
people seem to forget that they have a mouth capable of forming words to convey a feeling or emotion for something. if you thought it was good and someone else might enjoy it; tell them. Simple as that.

lol, death of gaming? You can't be that naive. This is a multi-billion dollar industry that won't be going anywhere anytime soon unless the big corporations continue to strip away the consumer rights. This is nothing but greed. Just take a look at the Call of Duty Franchise. Do you think Kotick gives a damn aboout second hand sales or online passes? No. Why? Because his franchise sells and he's racking in the big bucks. Don't buy into that excuse about losing money.

People are going to buy what they want to buy. When you limit that, you're alienating your consumers. OK, I might not have enough to buy Uncharted 1 new, but I bought it used, loved it so much I'm going to buy Uncharted 2 on release brand new. You're banking on future profits and business. That's why they make consoles at a loss.

Do you think it's fair that I buy Madden Brand new on release, decide to sell it but according you guy if I want to buy it back I need to buy it again brand new? Fuck outta here. I supported you the first go around and you have my money. Why should I have to buy it again from at $39.99-59.99 when I can get it for $19.99 off Ebay, cracklist or anything else?

Don't let the Corporations have us by the nuts. They're already 80% there. And its a damn shame.

consumer rights?

i love how people forget that businesses also have rights.
whilst i am in no way beguiled or ensnared by Businesses practices, i make it a point to not treat the guys providing me a service like complete and utter trash... they have a right to protect their IP's.

Greed? what would you call what you're trying to do then? being stingy? games cost what they cost for a reason. the number (excluding COD) isn't pulled out of the ether with the sole purpose of spiting you. it costs as much as it does because it costs the company just as much.
[another disclaimer as is needed] the goal of any business is to turn a profit, this allows the company to grow. i have taken some liberties with the concept to avoid an essay[/disclaimer]

if you would like my opinion (which i haven't yet stated) it would go like this: i'd prefer a less invasive approach to stemming used games. this patent, however involved, is a bit crude when taken on face value. suffice to say. several contingencies would need to be in place for some of the views brought up by members here


as a point of debate. Why does Sony achieving greater revenue offend you guys so? in the end that money is put back into providing us a better service and product (swinging loose with that last one).

[mankind]

What makes you think you, or anyone else, is entitled to trying a game before they buy it?...
That's always been a privilege granted to you by marketers, not a right...
Having said that, tho, I do agree that, if Sony were the only company to implement this on their console, it would definitely hurt them, beyond the money they aren't receiving from the sale of new games...

I don't think it'll be the death of gaming tho; consumers will just adapt...
They've already taken away "used" online gaming, and how much has that hurt the industry?...yet prior to, every Tom, Dick, and Harry would preach relentlessly about how online passes would ruin sales...

And the award for being so fucking obvious goes to

When the hell did I say I or anyone else was untitled to try before they buy? I was listing it as an option that people have now.

[StevenW]

Gamestop shares have dropped based on this news. Looks like people are taking it seriously that Sony could implement this into PS4.

[Jo-san]

fact remains that Sony, and subsequently developers, don't get the cash they think they should. going forward for them (THE GAMES INDUSTRY) becomes more difficult.

Fortunately I happen to be in a position where I don't need to buy used copies, yet there is a substantial market of consumers who do rely on trading-in old titles to use as credit to acquire new titles. Not only would you be effecting 'down-stream' sales, but destroying the value in the product, as I don't envision publishers cutting unit prices substantially to compensate.

Retailers too would be less keen on supporting a product range which would erode their revenue generating capability.

The more appropriate approach would be to incentivise new purchases, rather than disincentive new purchases.

[Ghost-Rhayne]

Fortunately I happen to be in a position where I don't need to buy used copies, yet there is a substantial market of consumers who do rely on trading-in old titles to use as credit to acquire new titles. Not only would you be effecting 'down-stream' sales, but destroying the value in the product, as I don't envision publishers cutting unit prices substantially to compensate.

Retailers too would be less keen on supporting a product range which would erode their revenue generating capability.

The more appropriate approach would be to incentivise new purchases, rather than disincentive new purchases.

I think Rage had an interesting idea. If you bought a new copy of the game, you had access to content that wasn't available to second hand customers. I think it was just a dungeon or something. People bitched about it but I think it's fair in hindsight.

[Morganator]

I know I've said this at least a dozen times but... you all kinda put this on yourselves. Every time you cheered for a bad move made by Sony, you let them know that you're A-okay with them controlling YOUR experiences on YOUR devices. You knew that it would eventually hit on a touchy subject.

Anyway. I rarely ever buy used games. However... I do tend to wait until a time I find the price is right for said games. It's why I haven't bought games like Saint's Row: The Third and various other titles I've been wanting to check out; of which, some are first party. You see, I'm a patient consumer. I wait until corporations have what I want at the price I'm willing to shell out. This also keeps me from impulse buying things I may later find not worth the money spent.

[Ghost-Rhayne]

I know I've said this at least a dozen times but... you all kinda put this on yourselves. Every time you cheered for a bad move made by Sony, you let them know that you're A-okay with them controlling YOUR experiences on YOUR devices. You knew that it would eventually hit on a touchy subject.

Anyway. I rarely ever buy used games. However... I do tend to wait until a time I find the price is right for said games. It's why I haven't bought games like Saint's Row: The Third and various other titles I've been wanting to check out; of which, some are first party. You see, I'm a patient consumer. I wait until corporations have what I want at the price I'm willing to shell out. This also keeps me from impulse buying things I may later find not worth the money spent.

This is my strategy too. I add games I want to my Amazon watch list and check in every few weeks. I have bought a few games recently on day 1 but this is rare (XCOM, Borderlands, PSABR).

Pachter said that the reaction to this patent has been overblown and I totally agree. If we pasted all the patents together from the last year, we would have a very fucked up console haha.

[Fijiandoce]

Fortunately I happen to be in a position where I don't need to buy used copies, yet there is a substantial market of consumers who do rely on trading-in old titles to use as credit to acquire new titles. Not only would you be effecting 'down-stream' sales, but destroying the value in the product, as I don't envision publishers cutting unit prices substantially to compensate.

Retailers too would be less keen on supporting a product range which would erode their revenue generating capability.

The more appropriate approach would be to incentivise new purchases, rather than disincentive new purchases.

indeed, i particularly like the approach taken by Square Enix with Batman Arkham City. Allowing additional content to those who purchased new. but keeping the game intact for those who purchased used.

but as you've just said. a lot of power lies with the retailer.
and as it stands, its quite the one sided convenience for them.
not splitting profits from the used game market. its only logical that the companies in charge move to stem this. not every developer can be as successful as infinity ward or Treyarch. who, if i might add, have an almost perfect position within the market.

people will so easily point the blame at Sony yet turn the blind eye to the stores who dictate the market (a crude description i know). Retailers currently set the price for the new PS3 if im not mistaken.

[Nitey]

When I plugged my Sony All Stars into my Playstation, it gave me the option of associating my disc with the PS3 in order to claim my free version for the Vita. I'm not sure if the disc is associated with my PS3, my account, or even if the disc will work in another PS3... would be interesting for someone else to try that out.

It's associated with the PSN account you were logged in with at the time that grants 100% off the Vita version, that's all. You can trade the disc in. My brother regularly takes my PS3 disc copy (that has been assigned to a PSN account) to his friends house to play.

Of course they can't play online due to online passes but that's something different

[Morganator]

This is my strategy too. I add games I want to my Amazon watch list and check in every few weeks. I have bought a few games recently on day 1 but this is rare (XCOM, Borderlands, PSABR).

Pachter said that the reaction to this patent has been overblown and I totally agree. If we pasted all the patents together from the last year, we would have a very fucked up console haha.

Yep. Agreed. I still think that the inherent purpose behind the patent may come to fruition sometime later on down the road. I don't put much stock into what corporate execs say because quite frankly, history hath shown and proven quite the opposite is true.

[Fon]

[A DISCLAIMER AS IS NEEDED ON PSU]
"used games = death of gaming" - a phrase used to 'emphasize' the seriousness of the used game market. in no way intended to be taken as a literal matter of fact.
used games are in fact bad for the industry. it stunts cash flow for developers.

that is simply fallacy. i told a friend of mine about how much i was enjoying Mirrors Edge. how much i loved its art style. the constrained sense of freedom.
he lives in the US, there was no way for me to "lend" him my game. i got him hyped up, he went and bought it.
he is more pumped for Mirrors Edge 2 than i am, in fact, he is the one hyping me now. every piece of info released he reads and passes on to me.
people seem to forget that they have a mouth capable of forming words to convey a feeling or emotion for something. if you thought it was good and someone else might enjoy it; tell them. Simple as that.

You're describing your own experience and making it general while completely disregarding something factual. Word of mouth can work but experiencing it first hand draws a better picture. This is free marketing for game publishers and their future investments, not a way to stunt them. This move to further restrict gamers will put more video game studios out of business then this generation ever did.

Here is why: The common gamer will want to try a game that is hardly marketed so they don't want to risk heavy investment. What's the alternative?: Rental or purchase it used(You can get them from fifty percent off or more from online retailers). They try it out and depending on their experience, they might purchase the next game or heck, even become fans of the franchise. The same scenario works for lending your friends a game(s).

Now put restriction on your games and continue your Online Pass nonsense. The common consumer won't be able to lend their games to their buddies or family. They can't buy used either so what will they do?: Stick with what's well known for the sake of their wallets while the underdogs go out of business. Word of mouth doesn't always work and you can't seriously replicate that event you had with your friend with everyone.

The amount of apathy publishers and gamers alike are showing in this industry is concerning, like very. I'm quite surprised that they don't see how counter-productive this really is. Big publishers could come out okay but everyone else will just disintegrate.

[DeviousOne]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaud...ck-used-games/

I read this a few months back wanted to add to the discussion

[Fijiandoce]

You're describing your own experience and making it general while completely disregarding something factual. Word of mouth can work but experiencing it first hand draws a better picture. This is free marketing for game publishers and their future investments, not a way to stunt them. This move to further restrict gamers will put more video game studios out of business then this generation ever did.

Here is why: The common gamer will want to try a game that is hardly marketed so they don't want to risk heavy investment. What's the alternative?: Rental or purchase it used(You can get them from fifty percent off or more from online retailers). They try it out and depending on their experience, they might purchase the next game or heck, even become fans of the franchise. The same scenario works for lending your friends a game(s).

Now put restriction on your games and continue your Online Pass nonsense. The common consumer won't be able to lend their games to their buddies or family. They can't buy used either so what will they do?: Stick with what's well known for the sake of their wallets while the underdogs go out of business. Word of mouth doesn't always work and you can't seriously replicate that event you had with your friend with everyone.

The amount of apathy publishers and gamers alike are showing in this industry is concerning, like very. I'm quite surprised that they don't see how counter-productive this really is. Big publishers could come out okay but everyone else will just disintegrate.

im going to be blunt, and i don't mean any disrespect of course.

but what you've just said wasn't factual either...
you've just provided a theory.

the patent, i feel, is not being read properly by users who are using arguments clearly outlined in the patent.

so that the game disk can be reproduced in a mode which is predetermined for those bought and sold in the second-hand market.

i'll assume this one refers to going and playing online

lso, where the connection to the Internet is an absolute requirement, user’s convenience may be significantly reduced.

long story short. every argument thus far for demo's and the like are unjustified. the disc will still work, the only thing you should worry about is to what capacity.

this isn't aimed at you (the consumer) this is aimed at the retailers somewhat bullish approach other peoples IP's.
why you would think otherwise is beyond me...

[bigCman123]

I don't buy many used games, but I believe this is a bad idea. I would prefer they focus more on digital downloads next generation rather than trying to kill used games and if they make digital downloads worth it, like Steam does, then I think people would cease to care about used games.

[Sparc]

A company looks to protect its revenue stream - why on earth do people think that's unreasonable? Would you prefer their profits take a whack, shareholders stop investing, and the company start divesting in the gaming business because it no longer shows a year on year growth and has a negative contribution to their EPS ratio?

You simply can't have it all ways. "Hey big corp, we want new IP, new games, pushing the boundaries of innovation and creativity, BUT, we might not want to remunerate you for it. Hey ho"

Here's the fact of life - well business actually - companies don't care about you personally. They care about making money. They are only in it for that reason. Every decision they take is either directly, or indirectly linked to satisfying that simple rule. You may not like that, you may think companies are ebil because of it, but it's a simple fact. If they weren't like that then they would all end up going out of business. At the end of the day what we need as consumers are products, games in this case, at affordable and reasonable prices, which satisfy our gaming needs and which allow the companies that do it well to be rewarded with transactional revenue which they will plough a good percentage of that back into innovating for the future. What protects us as consumers and what drives companies to innovate more and more is competition. We need lots and lots of it.

For those who say Sony implementing something like this will be f**ked are simply wrong. For every second hand game that exists someone at some point bought it first hand. That was the point the company made the money. This can only have one affect, drive further revenue. I don't believe people who tend to buy first hand (like me) will stop buying because people who buy second hand are getting shafted.