Sony files patent to stop second-hand game sales

[StevenW]

http://www.psu.com/a017923/Sony-pate...and-game-sales

This kind of worries me. Games are expensive and unless it's a title I really want on day one, I tend to get most of my games from eBay. When there's four great games out in one month, it's even more likely I turn to the second-hand market.

Check out the link above about a new patent that Sony has filed.

[AaronSOLDIER]

Bad move. I never buy used games anymore but it'll hurt them for sure.

[Nakatomi Uk]

I could see them getting this patient and implementing it inside the PS4 as people have said with that being the case should it happen then I wont be buying a PS3, but what I dont understand is in the EU they passed a law that allows people to sell 2nd hand games with a CD key on PC etc so console gamers should also be effected and this shouldn't go through really I know CD key's etc are PC games but it still sort of applies

[mankind]

This will kill Sony if they go through with it. I'm a huge PS fan and if this happens I wont be buying the PS4.

[Ghost-Rhayne]

There have been all sorts of patents from Sony, from weird 3D devices and set ups to adverts that pause a game briefly before resuming. How many of these patents, if any, are used remains to be seen. MS patented a device that projects a 360 degree image on the walls around you, there's all sorts of crazy stuff going on in the patent world. If Sony implemented this (which I don't think they will given Tretton's sentiments about the blocking of used games being a disservice to the customers. If it happened, I would wager that it was something that both MS, Sony and publishers collaborate on. No company would be stupid enough to do this a lone because they are then fucked when the competion advertises itself as the only 8th gen console that can play used games.

[Sir_Scud]

There have been all sorts of patents from Sony, from weird 3D devices and set ups to adverts that pause a game briefly before resuming. How many of these patents, if any, are used remains to be seen.

Pretty much this. They'll probably just have a patent and that's it. That would be a lot of negative press for Sony if they managed this with PS4.

As for expense, games brand new do cost a lot of money when there's so much else to afford. Almost every game I own is bought brand new, but I generally do not buy games right at launch. $60 is a bit steep for any game, I've only done that once last year. Either I wait for it to get marked down to 40 or some special deal.

If games get linked in some way to stop second-hand sales, you're killing a lot of exposure to games. I'm just not sure people would be that willing to shell out $60 for a game that sounds interesting if they can't get it used. The only sure games would be the big franchises, like Call of Duty.

As of now, developers/sony might not see a cent of used sales, but online passes and DLC, they do. If someone buys a used copy of whatever game, if they like it, I don't think it's unbelievable to assume they might buy an online pass and any DLC a game might support. I feel if they kill off second-hand gaming, people are not going to pay the "new" price of an older game they are unsure about.

Online passes/DLC are a pretty smart way to combat used sales. People who originally were not going to buy the product in the first place may like it enough to shell money for online/DLC. Overall, I don't think there's an easy solution for this problem.

[Fijiandoce]

no chip off my shoulder, i buy all my games new

http://www.psu.com/a017923/Sony-pate...and-game-sales

This kind of worries me. Games are expensive and unless it's a title I really want on day one, I tend to get most of my games from eBay. When there's four great games out in one month, it's even more likely I turn to the second-hand market.

Check out the link above about a new patent that Sony has filed.

-this isn't directed at you but more the reason-

release dates are told months in advance. even now, there are people clamoring for any tidbit of info they can get for GTA's release date. Save the money beforehand. problem solved. you can buy any game you want that way o.O

as for how this hurts sony guys...
how does this hurt sony when used games directly hurt sony?

i don't get the thinking....
are you that petty to not support a console trying to get back sales where they make their money? Profit comes from game sales, the console is sold to you at a loss.

used games = death of gaming.

[StevenW]

no chip off my shoulder, i buy all my games new



-this isn't directed at you but more the reason-

release dates are told months in advance. even now, there are people clamoring for any tidbit of info they can get for GTA's release date. Save the money beforehand. problem solved. you can buy any game you want that way o.O

as for how this hurts sony guys...
how does this hurt sony when used games directly hurt sony?

i don't get the thinking....
are you that petty to not support a console trying to get back sales where they make their money? Profit comes from game sales, the console is sold to you at a loss.

used games = death of gaming.

Good points.

If I was to buy all the games I wanted to play every year, gaming would cost me thousands. Thousands that I'll be spending on going on holiday, days out with my family, but most importantly the spiralling costs of running a household and childcare. Second-hand sales help millions of people to be able to play the games they want by buying them at a fraction of the cost.

I still buy lots of new games, but it's not always practical or affordable. It's naive to think that people can afford to save when many people live in their overdrafts. Piracy is rife because people don't have the cash. Buying second-hand is better than piracy. Second-hand sales die- piracy rises.

[Fijiandoce]

Good points.

If I was to buy all the games I wanted to play every year, gaming would cost me thousands. Thousands that I'll be spending on going on holiday, days out with my family, but most importantly the spiralling costs of running a household and childcare. Second-hand sales help millions of people to be able to play the games they want by buying them at a fraction of the cost.

I still buy lots of new games, but it's not always practical or affordable. It's naive to think that people can afford to save when many people live in their overdrafts. Piracy is rife because people don't have the cash. Buying second-hand is better than piracy. Second-hand sales die- piracy rises.

i come from fiji man.

you're talking to the wrong person about being skint

i love gaming, its one of my favourite hobbies. that being said, i already have money set aside for games i think i 'might' get.
key word there is might. when the release date gets closer and i decide i don't want a particular game anymore i then have some free cash to put toward something else. games or other.

Are you telling me you don't see a problem with this? I don't get your thinking.... are you that petty to not understand what this could do to the gamer? That would mean no more renting games, so that means no try before you buy. If I buy a game and hate it, it would mean I cant trade it in and get some of my money back. It would put gaming retail shops in huge trouble. Where would we buy are games from then? I buy all my games new too but I know a few people that buy pre owned as they cant afford to buy all the games they want brand new. If Sony does this they are fucked big time.

Take away used games = death of gaming

so screw the companies who provide you this content?

put it this way. IF Sony had reason to believe everybody and their daughters would buy their games brand new the next PS4 would likely be alot more powerful then what they're currently tinkering away with.
why? because their margins would be bigger.

Sony make their money from the games they make. not just first party. Third party devs too.
Sony doesn't see a single cent of a used game.

[mankind]

i come from fiji man.

you're talking to the wrong person about being skint

i love gaming, its one of my favourite hobbies. that being said, i already have money set aside for games i think i 'might' get.
key word there is might. when the release date gets closer and i decide i don't want a particular game anymore i then have some free cash to put toward something else. games or other.




so screw the companies who provide you this content?

put it this way. IF Sony had reason to believe everybody and their daughters would buy their games brand new the next PS4 would likely be alot more powerful then what they're currently tinkering away with.
why? because their margins would be bigger.

Sony make their money from the games they make. not just first party. Third party devs too.
Sony doesn't see a single cent of a used game.

Put it any way you want, if Sony do this they are fucked. I only mentioned a few problems that would happen if they did this. I go and buy a PS4 and buy a shit load of games, the PS4 breaks and then my games become useless.

[StevenW]

i come from fiji man.

you're talking to the wrong person about being skint

i love gaming, its one of my favourite hobbies. that being said, i already have money set aside for games i think i 'might' get.
key word there is might. when the release date gets closer and i decide i don't want a particular game anymore i then have some free cash to put toward something else. games or other.




so screw the companies who provide you this content?

put it this way. IF Sony had reason to believe everybody and their daughters would buy their games brand new the next PS4 would likely be alot more powerful then what they're currently tinkering away with.
why? because their margins would be bigger.

Sony make their money from the games they make. not just first party. Third party devs too.
Sony doesn't see a single cent of a used game.

If I buy no games this year and save up the money for flight to Fiji, can I stay at yours? That place looks amazing. I understand it's in the best interests of any publisher to stem second-hand sales but they still make loads from games, right? I think CoD, for example, is pirated to hell, yet Activision survive on that franchise.

[Fijiandoce]

If I buy no games this year and save up the money for flight to Fiji, can I stay at yours? That place looks amazing. I understand it's in the best interests of any publisher to stem second-hand sales but they still make loads from games, right? I think CoD, for example, is pirated to hell, yet Activision survive on that franchise.

if you want. my house overlooks Suva bay and is currently unoccupied

Activision can afford that loss though. whats a few dollars to a millionaire?

fact remains that Sony, and subsequently developers, don't get the cash they think they should. going forward for them (THE GAMES INDUSTRY) becomes more difficult.
this affects us, and then you get people - as evidenced here - saying that it is Sony's fault etc. Sony can only respond to the market as that is where the money is. sadly people are giving all their money to retailers when they buy a used game. Sony is only left with dumbing down our experience with their product. (adjusting their margins) or pulling something like this.

[Fon]

i must have missed that in the text books then

Indeed, especially when you said.

that is simply fallacy. i told a friend of mine about how much i was enjoying Mirrors Edge. how much i loved its art style. the constrained sense of freedom.
he lives in the US, there was no way for me to "lend" him my game. i got him hyped up, he went and bought it.
he is more pumped for Mirrors Edge 2 than i am, in fact, he is the one hyping me now. every piece of info released he reads and passes on to me.
people seem to forget that they have a mouth capable of forming words to convey a feeling or emotion for something. if you thought it was good and someone else might enjoy it; tell them. Simple as that.

You literally used this as a general scenario and how it should be when it's nothing more then idealism. While it does factually happen in real life(I never once denied this), so is the scenarios I described. What you're doing is misunderstanding my intent.

what i did read from my text books would imply otherwise.
the average consumer will indeed purchase a good they are interested in, its the job of the marketers to achieve a sufficient level of interest.
the onus is then on the consumer, once purchased, whether or not they feel inclined to continue with successive purchases.
this argument enforces the notion of cash flow within an industry.

This actually supports my argument. While different in minor areas, the same effect applies.

this is your quote fon,

"Here is why: The common gamer will want to try a game that is hardly marketed so they don't want to risk heavy investment. What's the alternative?: Rental or purchase it used(You can get them from fifty percent off or more from online retailers). They try it out and depending on their experience, they might purchase the next game or heck, even become fans of the franchise. The same scenario works for lending your friends a game(s)."

the disk is still capable of achieving what you've outlined here. the disc is not "locked away". the content will still be available to you in some form. probably a time limit. or locking you to the tutorial etc. you will still 'play' something...
ergo, your argument is in someways invalid. as the disc still provides what your argument is based on.

What?. What I was implying was the experience you have with the games. Being able to play or provide "Something" does not fall under my quote.

what this is targeted at is the retailer. would you buy a demo from them only to have to then pay a publisher for the right to open the disc fully? no, get the disc for free, from where ever you want. test it out. then give the money to the Publisher.

Publisher gets all the money, you get to try out the game. and the retailers get screwed for abusing their hubris.


win win for us right?

what is locked away (and i think this is what is causing confusion) is the ability to play online.

Wait, where did free game disk come from?.

This is what I meant about games being locked away(Hence why I needed clarification, the gist of what I got gives me that impression).

“By employing the game playing system 1000 according to the present embodiment, the use permission tag 220 together with the game disk 210 is supplied to the user, and the use permission tag 220 actively determines the use permit/rejection of electronic content. Thereby, the use of game AP stored in the game disk 210 can be restricted as appropriate according to the attribute of a reproduction device. Consider, for example, a case where used is a game package 200 distributed in the second-hand market. Then the ID of reproduction device for the game disk 210 differs from the legitimate use device ID stored in the use permission tag 220, so that the game disk can be reproduced in a mode which is predetermined for those bought and sold in the second-hand market. Also, for example, a content key may be supplied to the reproduction device 130 and the encrypted game AP may be decrypted using the content key only if the reproduction device ID matches a legitimate use device ID. Hence, use of game APs bought and sold in the second-hand market can be eliminated.”
In this section, Sony explains how it may work:
“As a technique to suppress the second-hand sales and purchase, a user may be first required to send a password or the like to a remote authentication server from a reproduction device (game player) via the Internet and the reproduction of content may be permitted only for the device that has succeeded in authentication.”
“However, where the reproduction device is not connected to the Internet, use of the content cannot be controlled. Also, where the connection to the Internet is an absolute requirement, user’s convenience may be significantly reduced. Besides, users may communicate to share the password between them and therefore the second-hand sales and purchase cannot be eliminated reliably.”

Edit
http://www.psu.com/a017923/Sony-pate...and-game-sales

[Fijiandoce]

wait, now im confused

what is the basis of your argument?

as i see it. this has no impact on us, the gamers. you can continue to do as you please. only thing different is that publishers want 100% of what you would normally give to the retailer.

why is this wrong? id assume this was a win for us, more money = better games

this is clearly outlined in the patent.

this should eliminate the second hand market. not second hand games. the patent continually refers to stubbing "sales"[bold in blue]. unless you are a second hand dealer yourself i don't see the problem?

“By employing the game playing system 1000 according to the present embodiment, the use permission tag 220 together with the game disk 210 is supplied to the user, and the use permission tag 220 actively determines the use permit/rejection of electronic content. Thereby, the use of game AP stored in the game disk 210 can be restricted as appropriate according to the attribute of a reproduction device. Consider, for example, a case where used is a game package 200 distributed in the second-hand market. Then the ID of reproduction device for the game disk 210 differs from the legitimate use device ID stored in the use permission tag 220, so that the game disk can be reproduced in a mode which is predetermined for those bought and sold in the second-hand market. Also, for example, a content key may be supplied to the reproduction device 130 and the encrypted game AP may be decrypted using the content key only if the reproduction device ID matches a legitimate use device ID. Hence, use of game APs bought and sold in the second-hand market can be eliminated.”

In this section, Sony explains how it may work:
“As a technique to suppress the second-hand sales and purchase, a user may be first required to send a password or the like to a remote authentication server from a reproduction device (game player) via the Internet and the reproduction of content may be permitted only for the device that has succeeded in authentication.”
“However, where the reproduction device is not connected to the Internet, use of the content cannot be controlled. Also, where the connection to the Internet is an absolute requirement, user’s convenience may be significantly reduced. Besides, users may communicate to share the password between them and therefore the second-hand sales and purchase cannot be eliminated reliably.”

how is the part in bold[not blue] different to this:

Here is why: The common gamer will want to try a game that is hardly marketed so they don't want to risk heavy investment. What's the alternative?: Rental or purchase it used(You can get them from fifty percent off or more from online retailers). They try it out and depending on their experience, they might purchase the next game or heck, even become fans of the franchise. The same scenario works for lending your friends a game(s).

i don't get where you're coming from man?
how is this bad for you? the game disc could in theory function as a demo disc for you until you get around to purchasing an authorised ID.

for the record. i still think word of mouth plays a bigger part than you imagine. but for arguments sake, i'll leave it at that

[radgamer420]

Good points.

If I was to buy all the games I wanted to play every year, gaming would cost me thousands. Thousands that I'll be spending on going on holiday, days out with my family, but most importantly the spiralling costs of running a household and childcare. Second-hand sales help millions of people to be able to play the games they want by buying them at a fraction of the cost.

I still buy lots of new games, but it's not always practical or affordable. It's naive to think that people can afford to save when many people live in their overdrafts. Piracy is rife because people don't have the cash. Buying second-hand is better than piracy. Second-hand sales die- piracy rises.

Totally agree. I couldnt have said it better.

[mankind]

no chip off my shoulder, i buy all my games new



-this isn't directed at you but more the reason-

release dates are told months in advance. even now, there are people clamoring for any tidbit of info they can get for GTA's release date. Save the money beforehand. problem solved. you can buy any game you want that way o.O

as for how this hurts sony guys...
how does this hurt sony when used games directly hurt sony?

i don't get the thinking....
are you that petty to not support a console trying to get back sales where they make their money? Profit comes from game sales, the console is sold to you at a loss.

used games = death of gaming.

Are you telling me you don't see a problem with this? I don't get your thinking.... are you that petty to not understand what this could do to the gamer? That would mean no more renting games, so that means no try before you buy. If I buy a game and hate it, it would mean I cant trade it in and get some of my money back. It would put gaming retail shops in huge trouble. Where would we buy are games from then? I buy all my games new too but I know a few people that buy pre owned as they cant afford to buy all the games they want brand new. If Sony does this they are fucked big time.

Take away used games = death of gaming

[Suzano-O]

Are you telling me you don't see a problem with this? I don't get your thinking.... are you that petty to not understand what this could do to the gamer? That would mean no more renting games, so that means no try before you buy. If I buy a game and hate it, it would mean I cant trade it in and get some of my money back. It would put gaming retail shops in huge trouble. Where would we buy are games from then? I buy all my games new too but I know a few people that buy pre owned as they cant afford to buy all the games they want brand new. If Sony does this they are fucked big time.

Take away used games = death of gaming

What makes you think you, or anyone else, is entitled to trying a game before they buy it?...
That's always been a privilege granted to you by marketers, not a right...
Having said that, tho, I do agree that, if Sony were the only company to implement this on their console, it would definitely hurt them, beyond the money they aren't receiving from the sale of new games...

I don't think it'll be the death of gaming tho; consumers will just adapt...
They've already taken away "used" online gaming, and how much has that hurt the industry?...yet prior to, every Tom, Dick, and Harry would preach relentlessly about how online passes would ruin sales...

[Fijiandoce]

[A DISCLAIMER AS IS NEEDED ON PSU]
"used games = death of gaming" - a phrase used to 'emphasize' the seriousness of the used game market. in no way intended to be taken as a literal matter of fact.
used games are in fact bad for the industry. it stunts cash flow for developers.

Another reason being that you can't let your family or friends borrow games to potentially generate said hype. If you restrict gamers with online passes and deny that nice chain of potential consumer base, guess what's going to happen?: They'll skip the next game due to lack of interest, its not fun having such a restriction placed on you.

that is simply fallacy. i told a friend of mine about how much i was enjoying Mirrors Edge. how much i loved its art style. the constrained sense of freedom.
he lives in the US, there was no way for me to "lend" him my game. i got him hyped up, he went and bought it.
he is more pumped for Mirrors Edge 2 than i am, in fact, he is the one hyping me now. every piece of info released he reads and passes on to me.
people seem to forget that they have a mouth capable of forming words to convey a feeling or emotion for something. if you thought it was good and someone else might enjoy it; tell them. Simple as that.

lol, death of gaming? You can't be that naive. This is a multi-billion dollar industry that won't be going anywhere anytime soon unless the big corporations continue to strip away the consumer rights. This is nothing but greed. Just take a look at the Call of Duty Franchise. Do you think Kotick gives a damn aboout second hand sales or online passes? No. Why? Because his franchise sells and he's racking in the big bucks. Don't buy into that excuse about losing money.

People are going to buy what they want to buy. When you limit that, you're alienating your consumers. OK, I might not have enough to buy Uncharted 1 new, but I bought it used, loved it so much I'm going to buy Uncharted 2 on release brand new. You're banking on future profits and business. That's why they make consoles at a loss.

Do you think it's fair that I buy Madden Brand new on release, decide to sell it but according you guy if I want to buy it back I need to buy it again brand new? Fuck outta here. I supported you the first go around and you have my money. Why should I have to buy it again from at $39.99-59.99 when I can get it for $19.99 off Ebay, cracklist or anything else?

Don't let the Corporations have us by the nuts. They're already 80% there. And its a damn shame.

consumer rights?

i love how people forget that businesses also have rights.
whilst i am in no way beguiled or ensnared by Businesses practices, i make it a point to not treat the guys providing me a service like complete and utter trash... they have a right to protect their IP's.

Greed? what would you call what you're trying to do then? being stingy? games cost what they cost for a reason. the number (excluding COD) isn't pulled out of the ether with the sole purpose of spiting you. it costs as much as it does because it costs the company just as much.
[another disclaimer as is needed] the goal of any business is to turn a profit, this allows the company to grow. i have taken some liberties with the concept to avoid an essay[/disclaimer]

if you would like my opinion (which i haven't yet stated) it would go like this: i'd prefer a less invasive approach to stemming used games. this patent, however involved, is a bit crude when taken on face value. suffice to say. several contingencies would need to be in place for some of the views brought up by members here


as a point of debate. Why does Sony achieving greater revenue offend you guys so? in the end that money is put back into providing us a better service and product (swinging loose with that last one).

[Fon]

[A DISCLAIMER AS IS NEEDED ON PSU]
"used games = death of gaming" - a phrase used to 'emphasize' the seriousness of the used game market. in no way intended to be taken as a literal matter of fact.
used games are in fact bad for the industry. it stunts cash flow for developers.

that is simply fallacy. i told a friend of mine about how much i was enjoying Mirrors Edge. how much i loved its art style. the constrained sense of freedom.
he lives in the US, there was no way for me to "lend" him my game. i got him hyped up, he went and bought it.
he is more pumped for Mirrors Edge 2 than i am, in fact, he is the one hyping me now. every piece of info released he reads and passes on to me.
people seem to forget that they have a mouth capable of forming words to convey a feeling or emotion for something. if you thought it was good and someone else might enjoy it; tell them. Simple as that.

You're describing your own experience and making it general while completely disregarding something factual. Word of mouth can work but experiencing it first hand draws a better picture. This is free marketing for game publishers and their future investments, not a way to stunt them. This move to further restrict gamers will put more video game studios out of business then this generation ever did.

Here is why: The common gamer will want to try a game that is hardly marketed so they don't want to risk heavy investment. What's the alternative?: Rental or purchase it used(You can get them from fifty percent off or more from online retailers). They try it out and depending on their experience, they might purchase the next game or heck, even become fans of the franchise. The same scenario works for lending your friends a game(s).

Now put restriction on your games and continue your Online Pass nonsense. The common consumer won't be able to lend their games to their buddies or family. They can't buy used either so what will they do?: Stick with what's well known for the sake of their wallets while the underdogs go out of business. Word of mouth doesn't always work and you can't seriously replicate that event you had with your friend with everyone.

The amount of apathy publishers and gamers alike are showing in this industry is concerning, like very. I'm quite surprised that they don't see how counter-productive this really is. Big publishers could come out okay but everyone else will just disintegrate.

[mankind]

What makes you think you, or anyone else, is entitled to trying a game before they buy it?...
That's always been a privilege granted to you by marketers, not a right...
Having said that, tho, I do agree that, if Sony were the only company to implement this on their console, it would definitely hurt them, beyond the money they aren't receiving from the sale of new games...

I don't think it'll be the death of gaming tho; consumers will just adapt...
They've already taken away "used" online gaming, and how much has that hurt the industry?...yet prior to, every Tom, Dick, and Harry would preach relentlessly about how online passes would ruin sales...

And the award for being so fucking obvious goes to

When the hell did I say I or anyone else was untitled to try before they buy? I was listing it as an option that people have now.

[Suzano-O]

And the award for being so fucking obvious goes to

*insert overreaction in the form of unfunny memepic*

When the hell did I say I or anyone else was untitled to try before they buy? I was listing it as an option that people have now.

I guess I wasn't being simple enough for you to understand...
I was only mentioning it to illustrate that not all game retailers even extend such a courtesy, and to no negative effect on gaming sales overall as far as I know...

Relax, child...

[Flaw3d Genius]

-this isn't directed at you but more the reason-

release dates are told months in advance. even now, there are people clamoring for any tidbit of info they can get for GTA's release date. Save the money beforehand. problem solved. you can buy any game you want that way o.O

as for how this hurts sony guys...
how does this hurt sony when used games directly hurt sony?

i don't get the thinking....
are you that petty to not support a console trying to get back sales where they make their money? Profit comes from game sales, the console is sold to you at a loss.

used games = death of gaming.

What alot of nonsense, I have been gaming since 1984 and second hand sales have always played a huge part and 29 years later gaming has went from strength to strength.

Tell me why you think second hand sales are the death of gaming lol

[$Greatness$]

no chip off my shoulder, i buy all my games new



-this isn't directed at you but more the reason-

release dates are told months in advance. even now, there are people clamoring for any tidbit of info they can get for GTA's release date. Save the money beforehand. problem solved. you can buy any game you want that way o.O

as for how this hurts sony guys...
how does this hurt sony when used games directly hurt sony?

i don't get the thinking....
are you that petty to not support a console trying to get back sales where they make their money? Profit comes from game sales, the console is sold to you at a loss.

used games = death of gaming.

lol, death of gaming? You can't be that naive. This is a multi-billion dollar industry that won't be going anywhere anytime soon unless the big corporations continue to strip away the consumer rights. This is nothing but greed. Just take a look at the Call of Duty Franchise. Do you think Kotick gives a damn aboout second hand sales or online passes? No. Why? Because his franchise sells and he's racking in the big bucks. Don't buy into that excuse about losing money.

People are going to buy what they want to buy. When you limit that, you're alienating your consumers. OK, I might not have enough to buy Uncharted 1 new, but I bought it used, loved it so much I'm going to buy Uncharted 2 on release brand new. You're banking on future profits and business. That's why they make consoles at a loss.

Do you think it's fair that I buy Madden Brand new on release, decide to sell it but according you guy if I want to buy it back I need to buy it again brand new? Fuck outta here. I supported you the first go around and you have my money. Why should I have to buy it again from at $39.99-59.99 when I can get it for $19.99 off Ebay, cracklist or anything else?

Don't let the Corporations have us by the nuts. They're already 80% there. And its a damn shame.

[Fon]

lol, death of gaming? You can't be that naive. This is a multi-billion dollar industry that won't be going anywhere anytime soon unless the big corporations continue to strip away the consumer rights. This is nothing but greed. Just take a look at the Call of Duty Franchise. Do you think Kotick gives a damn aboout second hand sales or online passes? No. Why? Because his franchise sells and he's racking in the big bucks. Don't buy into that excuse about losing money.

People are going to buy what they want to buy. When you limit that, you're alienating your consumers. OK, I might not have enough to buy Uncharted 1 new, but I bought it used, loved it so much I'm going to buy Uncharted 2 on release brand new. You're banking on future profits and business. That's why they make consoles at a loss.

Do you think it's fair that I buy Madden Brand new on release, decide to sell it but according you guy if I want to buy it back I need to buy it again brand new? Fuck outta here. I supported you the first go around and you have my money. Why should I have to buy it again from at $39.99-59.99 when I can get it for $19.99 off Ebay, cracklist or anything else?

Don't let the Corporations have us by the nuts. They're already 80% there. And its a damn shame.

Exactly what Online Passes are destroying. They're practically shooing away a potential future fanbase that will buy their next games. Want more money?: Make games that will leave an impression to the masses because they will most likely purchase your next game due to the hype game number 2 and beyond will generate.

Another reason being that you can't let your family or friends borrow games to potentially generate said hype. If you restrict gamers with online passes and deny that nice chain of potential consumer base, guess what's going to happen?: They'll skip the next game due to lack of interest, its not fun having such a restriction placed on you.

Gamers shouldn't be so passive about potential moves like these. This may very well be a patent that might not see the light of day but since they adopted Online Passes then I wouldn't be surprised if this is considered seriously in the future.

[$Greatness$]

Exactly what Online Passes are destroying. They're practically shooing away a potential future fanbase that will buy their next games. Want more money?: Make games that will leave an impression to the masses because they will most likely purchase your next game due to the hype game number 2 and beyond will generate.

Another reason being that you can't let your family or friends borrow games to potentially generate said hype. If you restrict gamers with online passes and deny that nice chain of potential consumer base, guess what's going to happen?: They'll skip the next game due to lack of interest, its not fun having such a restriction placed on you.

Gamers shouldn't be so passive about potential moves like these. This may very well be a patent that might not see the light of day but since they adopted Online Passes then I wouldn't be surprised if this is considered seriously in the future.

It's mind-boggling how people apologize for the big corps who don't two shits about your life and money, but I'm supposed to care about them. World is filled with crazies.