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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by daLa View Post
    I'm just going to buy whichever console is better.
    Wii U it is then

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    idgaf which is more powerful. I couldn't go without a ps4 due to my gaming taste. I touched on this a bit in(a very sensitive thread) but it's more organized, ect. than I listed it.

    Teams that have not made a game in a while
    - Naughty Dog - Uncharted 3 Team
    - Guerilla Games - Killzone 3 Team
    - Guerilla Games - New Studio rumoured to be making Fantasy IP
    - Polyphony Digital
    - Sucker Punch (has expanded maybe 2 teams) - made inFamous games
    - Media Molecule - Team 2
    - Evolution Studios (has expanded maybe 2 teams) - made MotorStorm
    - Ready at Dawn - made GoW PSP games, rumoured to be making next gen game
    - Quantic Dreams - Team 2
    - Santa Monica Team 2, making new IP with Stig as director (GoW3)
    - Superbot - made PSABR, making sequel
    - Bend- made Uncharted GA, making another Vita game
    - SOE - made Planetside 2
    - Project Siren - making Gravity Rush 2
    - London - rumoured to be making camera based game for PS3/Vita
    - Novarama - made Reality Fighters, rumoured to be making InVizimals Vita
    - Zindagi - made Sports Champions 2
    - Double Eleven - co developed LBP Vita
    - Tarsier Studios - co developed LBP Vita
    - Giant Sparrow - made Unfinished Swan
    - Clap Hanz - usually makes Hotshots games

    Teams that are busy
    - Naughty Dog - Last of Us Team
    - Guerilla Cambridge - making Killzone Mercenery
    - Media Molecule - Tearaway Team
    - Team Ico - making Last Guardian
    - San Diego - making Warrior's Lair, MLB
    - Quantic Dreams - making Beyond
    - SOE Team 2 - Everquest Next
    - Sanzaru - making Sly
    - Santa Monica - making GoW Ascension
    - Team Rain - making Rain
    - Sony Japan - Puppeteer, Soul Sacrifice
    Gaf

    With the ps4 supposedly being developer friendly, 3rd party support should be there day one. No major existing 3rd party game should revert to being exclusive to one platform unless someone drops some major cash. Adding in all those studios, I'm verrry excited about a ps4 that can compete from the start with a 720(720 fans should be excited too, even if you hate sony. It will keep MS on their toes and they can't get lazy with the "big budget" exclusives as they did late this generation. In the end, gamers win.)




  3. #28
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    Thats bullcrap SONY not stupid to do that, even if its true im still getting the PS4
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  4. #29
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    It's not as big a deal as people are making it out to be. If the current rumors (and leaked specs) I've seen are true, than the PS4's memory will be much, much faster than the 720's. Additionally the common stuff I've been hearing now indicate that it will have more robust GPU performance.

    But, this is all without having a solid grasp on the memory architecture of the new Xbox. People are pretty sure it will have slower memory bandwidth, but this is without taking into consideration the all about proven ESRAM that's on die which would provide a metric ****ton of bandwidth.

    So it could be a wash or one or the other could have an edge.

    I've also read statements saying that the direct comparisons between the two using relatively worthless units of performance like "Flops" is an exercise in futility since such metrics don't really mean much for consoles... And because both systems have very radical architectures. Not very PC like at all.

    If I were to characterize the direction they were taking from a hardware point of view, I would say they're moving far away from PC-like architecture. Kind of like Sony putting Cell in the PS3- very different but very exciting if done right.

    Durango (Xbox) is basically one massive SoC on a 420mm-ish die. The PS4 is using some kind souped up APU instead of a discreet graphics processor... And the 360's GPU is some weird possibly dual GPU type thing with sub-components that help offload graphical work loads.

    According to some survey I saw, though, something like 80% of developers stated that the next Xbox was far easier to work with than the PS4. Seems like Sony is once again being dev-unfriendly, which is odd given their missteps with the PS3 and then their efforts to make the Vita as easy to work with as possible..

    Or could simply be all relative. Maybe both are a breeze to work with but the 720 is just that much more accessible in developer hands than the PS4.

    Whatever. Point is developers and people "in the know" seem stupid excited about the these two devices. They appear to be very happy with them, which in turn should make us relatively confident in terms of the visuals we'll be seeing.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 01-16-2013 at 01:37.


  5. #30
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    Vulgotha, I guess Sony is in favor of pushing for a PS4 that's difficult to crack as well as more souped up than what 720 could offer, thus ending up with architecture that is still relatively more difficult for development than 720 (to whatever degree)?

    Whatever PS4 has, I just hope for Sony that it's not yet another console that gives you generally the same return in performance while being more problematic for development in comparison to the competition. It would literally be this gen all over again.
    Last edited by Bio; 01-16-2013 at 02:47.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bio
    Yep, NGP will retail at $300. We all know it's going to happen.

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  7. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post

    I've also read statements saying that the direct comparisons between the two using relatively worthless units of performance like "Flops" is an exercise in futility since such metrics don't really mean much for consoles... And because both systems have very radical architectures. Not very PC like at all.
    How so? They both seem to be going with AMD CPU/APU and GPU technology that will be in PC's/Laptops.

  8. #32
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    Not entirely true. As mentioned, the 720 is rumored to basically be one monstrous SoC with a bunch of custom pieces to help out the 8 core Jaguar\Bobcat CPU and whatever (dual?) GPU hybrid thing it's using.

    From alleged insider information from guys who work with AMD or are part of the supply chain, the stuff that MS\AMD are doing to the 720 is "truly unique" and AMD has placed a high level of priority on it. People keep saying that, for instance, its GPU architecture is "not at all like what we've seen before" and that there are "really exciting results".

    etc.

    Maybe it's a bunch of nonsense, but a few sources have said that its a very custom piece of silicon and its ambitious.


    @Bio

    I don't know what Sony's angle is here. But apparently their machine has the potential to be more powerful, pending more information from the 720's GPU and memory architecture. However, it is seemingly not as easy to work with.. So once again it's Sony's 1st party devs that will shine.

    This isn't so much a problem for Sony I guess, as they have the world's best and most talented developers of all the console manufacturers. One could say they have a few of the best studios in the world period. Still, I can't see how making things a bit more difficult for everyone (even if the performance is there) is a good thing for them as a company. First, they're in a bad way financially. Second, by all indications MS will once again launch before the PS4. I dunno, it just seems like a bad call.

    Maybe it won't be as big of a developer fiasco as the PS3 was in its early years, but if I were them I'd make it as dev friendly as possible and place that as a reasonably high priority. It'd be one thing if they were first out the gate by some sizable margin, but that's definitely not going to be the case.

    I'm kind of worried for Sony tbh. I'm hoping the PS4 is a huge success and helps put a little bit more wind in their sails, but they need to seriously evolve as a company if they want to stay competitive.. And solvent.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 01-16-2013 at 04:14.


  9. #33
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    ^ that's conflicting info though

    i agree with what you are saying, because i've heard/read the same.

    but the 720s architecture is supposed to be more customised, therefore further removed from current APU set-ups. that should make it more difficult, not less, to work with, no?

    and in terms of the ps4 being more powerful, this idea has surely come from a conventional view of the rumours. but like you said, if AMD are working on a more customised GPU/CPU solution for the 720, then comparing the GPUs with flops is pretty meaningless, as is looking at the CPU without looking at the custom blocks that'll (apparently) offload things like DSP. memory bandwidth comparisons are also as futile, because as you mentioned the ESRAM is not taken into account.

    from what i can gather most people (apparently) in the know say that performance wise it is a wash. which is a surprise because specs wise they appear so different.
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  10. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by claud3 View Post
    They are really squeezing out every fake detail possible, for us to fall for them

    I mean it's got so so desperate, that they are downgrading the power of a Ps4... Next thing will be the Same said about the Xbox720
    It will have less power than the Ps4... Were does it end all this bull****
    Most of us seasoned gamers won`t believe this anyways. Having seen this sorta **** repeatedly over the years...it makes me wanna vomit lol.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

  11. #35
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    Well, the ps3's split architecture 256mb gddr3 vram @ 700 MHz and 256mb xdr ram @ 3.2 GHz has worked out pretty good as far as outright graphical omph goes. Just look at Uncharted 3, KZ3, The last of Us etc. Optimization of software tools does wonders, so either way I wouldn't be worried. But we have to remember, that MS aims for the xbox 720 to be a lot more than "just" for games, they're really getting behind augmented reality and integration with the rest of the MS ecosystem, so even if MS has 8 gigs of total ram, it might end up reserving a lot more for OS/Kinect 2.0.

    But seriously, this is all pointless until MS and/or Sony do their reveals.

  12. #36
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    Well, the ps3's split architecture 256mb gddr3 vram @ 700 MHz and 256mb xdr ram @ 3.2 GHz has worked out pretty good as far as outright graphical omph goes. Just look at Uncharted 3, KZ3, The last of Us etc. Optimization of software tools does wonders, so either way I wouldn't be worried. But we have to remember, that MS aims for the xbox 720 to be a lot more than "just" for games, they're really getting behind augmented reality and integration with the rest of the MS ecosystem, so even if MS has 8 gigs of total ram, it might end up reserving a lot more for OS/Kinect 2.0.

    We won't know anything until MS and/or Sony do their reveals.

  13. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by LfCpS3 View Post
    I keep hearing that the console style RAM is more expensive.
    I believe it was only more expensive because Sony decided to use XDR instead of the more common DDR that is in the 360 and PCs.

  14. #38
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    Well sounds like technologically we'll be in for a surprise (again) more or less!


  15. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by brebaz View Post
    They just took what people say on the forums and just made an article about it.

    Rumors are fake until proven otherwise.
    Agree with you there. There is so much stock put into these rumors just like Sales numbers showing which console is in the lead. I will do what I've been doing and wait and see.




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  16. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by PS3-The Ultimate Machine View Post
    Well, the ps3's split architecture 256mb gddr3 vram @ 700 MHz and 256mb xdr ram @ 3.2 GHz has worked out pretty good as far as outright graphical omph goes. Just look at Uncharted 3, KZ3, The last of Us etc. Optimization of software tools does wonders, so either way I wouldn't be worried. But we have to remember, that MS aims for the xbox 720 to be a lot more than "just" for games, they're really getting behind augmented reality and integration with the rest of the MS ecosystem, so even if MS has 8 gigs of total ram, it might end up reserving a lot more for OS/Kinect 2.0.

    But seriously, this is all pointless until MS and/or Sony do their reveals.
    an ex MS employee on b3d has all but confirmed 3 custom blocks (one including DSP) that will take workload off the CPU. there is speculation that some sort of dedicated kinect solution will be incorporated.

    and as far as i'm aware, MS' dashboard has never been anymore resource hungry than sonys - in fact at one stage i thought it was the otherway around
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    Quote Originally Posted by J3ff3 View Post
    an ex MS employee on b3d has all but confirmed 3 custom blocks (one including DSP) that will take workload off the CPU. there is speculation that some sort of dedicated kinect solution will be incorporated.

    and as far as i'm aware, MS' dashboard has never been anymore resource hungry than sonys - in fact at one stage i thought it was the otherway around
    The MS dashboard was less resource hungry at one point, yes. I don't know if that ever changed, but I assume it did at least with this new metro dashboard. I think it is running silverlight as well? I don't know anything about programming, but with MS continuing to add more features and more images/video to the dash, I have to believe it is resource hungry.

    But that doesn't matter since the dashboard is not running when playing games, though RAM is set aside? The guide on the other hand needs to remain lean for the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PS3-The Ultimate Machine View Post
    Well, the ps3's split architecture 256mb gddr3 vram @ 700 MHz and 256mb xdr ram @ 3.2 GHz has worked out pretty good as far as outright graphical omph goes. Just look at Uncharted 3, KZ3, The last of Us etc. Optimization of software tools does wonders, so either way I wouldn't be worried. But we have to remember, that MS aims for the xbox 720 to be a lot more than "just" for games, they're really getting behind augmented reality and integration with the rest of the MS ecosystem, so even if MS has 8 gigs of total ram, it might end up reserving a lot more for OS/Kinect 2.0.

    But seriously, this is all pointless until MS and/or Sony do their reveals.
    Only if inect 2.0 is implemented across all titles, and even then, if you have 8GB and someone else is working on 4GB, there will still be more to go around for game development
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    4GB is more than enough. If it was 2GB however I would scream bloody murder. But 8GB would be better in the long run.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    4GB is more than enough. If it was 2GB however I would scream bloody murder. But 8GB would be better in the long run.
    it should be, but not if MS goes with more than that. The Wii U is in its own market, Sony needs to run S close in terms of tech, and what that manifests itself in terms of games
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  21. #45
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    Word is sony started earlier on the next gen console so they had to use older GPU as a base for customization. Hence the HD7000 vs HD8000 in orbis and Durango respectively. Not like there's much difference in actual performance. Orbis is said to have 50% more compute units so if this is true, I don't see how xb3 can make up for that just by having 8000 series

    Both have their share of custom parts though and every 'insider' thinks that both devices will be very close to each other
    Last edited by Itachi; 01-17-2013 at 13:51.

  22. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    Word is sony started earlier on the next gen console so they had to use older GPU as a base for customization. Hence the HD7000 vs HD8000 in orbis and Durango respectively. Not like there's much difference in actual performance. Orbis is said to have 50% more compute units so if this is true, I don't see how xb3 can make up for that just by having 8000 series

    Both have their share of custom parts though
    Well. If true they are utilizing AMD APU with 4 cores and 2 core pairs possibly Jaguar/Steamroller mix or all AMD Steamroller cores while Xbox 720 uses AMD Jaguar cores. It looks like role reversal from last generation CPU wise. If Xbox 720 utilizes 8 cores it will likely be dedicating them in a way that Sony did with SPUs for specialized tasks. If Sony is using Steamroller it will hold much more compute power than AMD Jaguar cores. Basically as General purpose Computing like the way Microsoft did the Xbox 360 CPU. Strange world right? I wouldn't mind seeing Sony use two APUs if they were part Jaguar part Steamroller they could measure out to 8 cores and still give greater compute. Well to me if there was a quad core Jaguar and Quad core Steamroller APU it equates out to 8 cores and would provide that extra 50 % compute. Likely with Jaguar cores doing all the background OS work with Steamroller APU doing all the game stuff.

    Never know really. This generation coming up has so many combinations that could happen with tech that its a little funny to see.

    There is also rumor of a co-processor in one if not both consoles. ARM or IBM PowerPC setup wouldn't be impossible to see along side AMD/IBM products. Both have agreements to build ARM devices. Could be a reason for that context switching patent Sony filled. Say offload the OS workload onto ARM, IBM, or Cell CPU in the background. I believe Sony plans on having Cell tech in PS4, but maybe not as the main processor. Possibly as a co-processor or for PS3 full compatibility mode or both. At least that is what that patent made it sound like to me.

    XDR has a new type of memory that utilizes DDR3 slot. Performs like GDDR5 with more speed than typical DDR3 and proposed DDR4 data speeds. This could be dropping into it as well. So never know. RAM in 99% of cases is cheap. If its not its new RAM tech. Even so its not to bad. 8 GB would not at all be impossible.

    Sony likely aimed to be the best so they are aiming for tech right off the tech line up for 2013. So their plans might be a few months behind Microsoft's, but they will match them up before E3 and final production starts.

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  24. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyFire View Post
    There is also rumor of a co-processor in one if not both consoles. ARM or IBM PowerPC setup wouldn't be impossible to see along side AMD/IBM products. Both have agreements to build ARM devices. Could be a reason for that context switching patent Sony filled. Say offload the OS workload onto ARM, IBM, or Cell CPU in the background. I believe Sony plans on having Cell tech in PS4, but maybe not as the main processor. Possibly as a co-processor or for PS3 full compatibility mode or both. At least that is what that patent made it sound like to me.
    This is what I wish. Sony spent a 7 years and a fortune building an online ecosystem and a huge library on psn store, doesn't make sense to not carry it over to the next products. Consumers expect to buy something like an Ipad and have their old apps work. The argument that console are not general use tablets is increasingly becoming irrelevant. Sony needs to give all incentives they can for us to buy it since
    psOne - cd player
    ps2 - dvd player
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    ps4 - ???

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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    This is what I wish. Sony spent a 7 years and a fortune building an online ecosystem and a huge library on psn store, doesn't make sense to not carry it over to the next products. Consumers expect to buy something like an Ipad and have their old apps work. The argument that console are not general use tablets is increasingly becoming irrelevant. Sony needs to give all incentives they can for us to buy it since
    psOne - cd player
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    ps4 - ???
    PS4 = BD-XL?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc#BDXL



    With BD-XL storing 100-128GB of data, I could see this becoming the standard format for 4K Video...and since the H.265 codec is suppose to be about 50% more efficient than the H.264 that makes the BD-XL standard perfect for that purpose! Not to mention giving a game 100-128GB of space to work with helps too!
    Last edited by MonkeyClaw; 01-17-2013 at 15:30.


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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    Word is sony started earlier on the next gen console so they had to use older GPU as a base for customization. Hence the HD7000 vs HD8000 in orbis and Durango respectively. Not like there's much difference in actual performance. Orbis is said to have 50% more compute units so if this is true, I don't see how xb3 can make up for that just by having 8000 series

    Both have their share of custom parts though and every 'insider' thinks that both devices will be very close to each other
    people are mostly going by floating point, and that is next to useless when determining which console is going to be better at what.

    Need to see the details of the GPU's, the RAM, and what the CPU's are going to work at.
    The ps4 could be more powerful, but without RAM it could be like this generation where Cell was faster and more powerful but all that advantage was wiped out.

    All we know is that Sony is going with an APU, and that MS is going a GPU/CPU direction........until we know what both figure out to be and what MS has done to sort out the bandwidth issues, there is not a lot to go on

    As a gamer, it is beneficial that both consoles be evenly matched, dont think we will have to wait long to see where these consoles stand at
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    bungie is revealing Destiny in march and reports say that MS has told devs that it is unveiling durango 'shortly after CES'

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