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  1. #1
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    Is that Xbox 720 architecture diagram? Looks like a monster with parts ahead of time

    This is the latest rumor. The guy thinks his source is too good to be true:

    IBM-AMD-MS


    Could this be true???



    So Xbox 720 hardware is on this diagram:
    - super advanced tech by IBM-AMD-MS. Design started back in 2007 as you said in 2010.
    - It has APU+GPU on every SOC(system on a chip).
    - It has 2 of this SOCs
    - Each CPU in APU has 8 cores with 4 thread in each. So tolal we have 2xSOC x 8Cores x 4 threads = 16cores x 4thread=64 threads.
    - Each GPU in SOC is 8xxx GPU(Mars or Venus) with advanced tech not available on PC some time
    - Each SOC has 1.5Gb of GdDR5 memory with additiond 5 gb of shared ddr3/ddr4.
    - Each SOC has EDRAM. Previosly you said about 110 mb
    - Xbox has some other hardware features. Like RayTraycing chip(VTE on this picture).
    - The goals of the system design are - universal for different type of tasks, easy to parralellism, easy to fully load, zero bottlenecks an future proof as Xbox 360 design with low energy consumtion..
    - Some part will be upgradable later.
    - It should be about 4+terraflops. Of couse it will be better of every high end PC available in 2013-2014 and maybe 2015. With optimisation it have to be on pair with PC 8 years.
    - There will be Kinect 2.0
    - There will be illumiroom tech as additional feature after the launch.

    Sources said Xbox will be 2-3 time more powerfull than PS4. Most of this tech will not be available on PC and is very custom.

    Here is some quotes from around the net as informations started to flood:

    Quote http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.p...ostcount=18183
    I guarantee you, Microsoft's next system will be able to do things your current computer does not have the resources to do, d I say th knowing some of you folks have monster PC setups. (Dunno about Sony, I know next to nothing about their system)
    Quote http://opa-ages.com/forums/topic/660...dows-8-kernel/
    the GPU is different than the 8800, it's 8770 ghz editon + ray tracer, but yes the Durango will blow the PS4 out of the water.
    We'll hear more about both systems and comparisons will be made as we get closer to E3.
    Detailed Analysis

    That what i meant, there is no proof MS will use Jaguar type CPU
    THe one that got seal of approval is (Neogaf really like this spec, because rather weak)
    - 8 core Jaguar
    - 8 GB DDR3
    - etc

    All rumor especially the newer one never said about just one type of memory
    because there will be eDRAM so MS will use DDR3

    Actuaaly there is more more updated xbox next spec but the general tone
    will be Combined DDR3/4 and HBM type memory + EdDRAM
    There is some custom function that there won't be even at Highend current PC GPU

    Also there will be some custom function that rumored related very much
    to Eric Mejdrich Xbox SOC Architect, Ray Tracing patent


    Parallelized Ray Tracing

    http://www.google.com/patents/US20110285710



    Ray tracing image processing system
    http://www.google.com/patents/US8139060


    i will show some interesting on his patent
    BTE & VTE, VTE related to GPU or Custom GPU to do Vector Troughput engine




    First we must discuss BTE (basic Thoughput System)
    consist of Multicore CPU


    BTE building block
    A)
    Basic BTE building block on Eric Vision
    per BTE = 2 CPU Core, Per CPU Core = 4 Thread, total 8 Thread per BTE = 2 Core




    B)
    Then BTE complete CPU Block Eric Vision
    has 4 BTE + Shared + etc
    = 8 Core = 32 Thread



    BTE In More detail
    *)i have to put as usual link (limit of 7 images)
    http://www.google.com/patents?id=tKU...%2C1057&edge=0

    Now VTE
    VTE = Vector Troughput System
    Part of Ray Tracing Image Proc. System

    Part of VTE function, ray tracing etc


    C)
    VTE Block

    Per Block Consist of
    3 VTE + 1 Workload Manager

    Some Example


    Analysis:
    *)Now Check The A & B above look how BTE consistent with 8 Core , at above example it is 4 Thread per core
    *)Interestingly whether BTE or VTE, shown as scalable , or more than one

    Durango’s devkit features a “monster” 16-core IBM PowerPC CPU
    Now Check at April there is consistent rumor of Xbox next 16 Core processor

    http://sillegamer.com/2012/04/06/xbo...ore-processor/

    Analysis
    *) BTE is scalable , based on A & B, i assume they use 2 SOC or MCM or whatever, assume per MCM hold (read A& B above) 8 Core
    the fun thing is it can be PowerPC or AMD x86, the consistent part it will be 8 core per MCM

    Most fun part is also consistent with newer rumor, that it will include the VTE so , It is Uknown that VTE blovk will be on MCM or there will be at least 3 block of MCM

    so there is 2 MCM of = 8 core (BTE's) + eDRAM + GPU + 1.5GB GDDR5
    plus 1 MCM of VTE , if VTE will be put outside the main MCM
    plus 5GB of DDR3/DDR4 or HMC (high speed bus)

    *)also 3GB is standadr for 384 bit, just google beyond3d or there is plenty of explanation why 384 = 3GB or 6GB
    *) also if you look closely at early xbox surface rumor you will see the odd 1.5GB why because they will use 2 MCM (at that time they only 6 Core) = 12 Core, 2 MCM = 3GB of GDDR5
    *) also look at Xbox rumor surface again you see the 5GB as DDR3/DDR4


    It could be looks like this
    This is XBox next (probably the VTE will be include in each MCM eventually, but now i imagine as separate Function/DSP)

    So xbox next could be , This is Just Simplified diagram, also

    http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showp...&postcount=124
    http://misterxmedia.livejournal.com/113345.html
    Last edited by X2; 01-16-2013 at 14:44.
    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?"
    --Kaz Hirai, CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment

  2. #2
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    If it sounds too good to be true, it most likely is too good to be true.

  3. #3
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    I find the odd RAM number......odd. I know this is not a PC, but who puts in 5gb and 1.5gb of RAM?

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    No point in getting excited over what could be false.

    But if true, could be a game changer ( if the games are there I mean, no i don't mean halo and geow)

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    I wish people would just stop guessing already, the damn thing as about to be announced just wait a few months.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave-The-Rave View Post
    I wish people would just stop guessing already, the damn thing as about to be announced just wait a few months.
    This is all we have to go by for the next few months. Speculations and rumors create discussions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LfCpS3 View Post
    No point in getting excited over what could be false.

    But if true, could be a game changer ( if the games are there I mean, no i don't mean halo and geow)
    Funny how 3rd party games dont even count as games here on PSU. lol And while we are at it lets not count any 360 retail exclusives just because they are sequels. And we'll of course disregard the fact that they still sell very well meaning millions of 360 gamers still enjoy these ips.
    Last edited by mistercrow; 01-16-2013 at 17:55.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LfCpS3 View Post
    No point in getting excited over what could be false.

    But if true, could be a game changer ( if the games are there I mean, no i don't mean halo and geow)
    You must not pay attention to Microsoft as they have been building up developers and making major changes across their current developers. Also not to mention they have pretty good relations with third parties and indies despite the the complaints.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal_NFS View Post
    This is all we have to go by for the next few months. Speculations and rumors create discussions.
    but they all contradict each other which makes the discussion quite pointless.
    Trophy-licious!


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    i've been reading the threads this info comes from.

    its not true to suggest this is 'the latest rumour'.

    this above post just takes all the best speculation and merges it into one.

    for example that 'can do what your PC can't quote' was from bkilian @ b3d forum, and had absolutely nothing to do with the architectural diagrams preceeding it.


    did you collect this information X2? it just muddies the waters by presenting it as one idea imo

    *edit: ahh, its mistercream. why am i not surprised. the guy is intelligent, but clearly his first language isn't english. there are much more informative discussions on those forums than his walls of text.
    Last edited by J3ff3; 01-16-2013 at 17:33.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal_NFS View Post
    I find the odd RAM number......odd. I know this is not a PC, but who puts in 5gb and 1.5gb of RAM?
    Some desktop video cards do have 1.5GB of memory:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814187125

    But yeah, having 5GB of system RAM is kind of weird?! I am having a tough time believing this info thogh, dual 8 core CPU's? I just don't see it happening...but anything is possible, hopefully they will prove me wrong!

    -=[ PSN ID: Tha_MonkeyClaw ]=-

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    Quote Originally Posted by radgamer420 View Post
    Funny how 3rd party games dont even count as games here on PSU. lol
    Couldn't have said it better myself. Funny enough, for me, Far Cry 3 > any exclusive on the PS3/360 for the past year at least.

    So if this architecture benefits 3rd party, bring it on. 3rd party has what made this generation my favorite generation ever for both consoles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    Couldn't have said it better myself. Funny enough, for me, Far Cry 3 > any exclusive on the PS3/360 for the past year at least.

    So if this architecture benefits 3rd party, bring it on. 3rd party has what made this generation my favorite generation ever for both consoles.
    Agreed. Most of my favorite games this gen are from 3rd party. And lets face it, the vast majority of games played on any console are 3rd party so to be so dismissive about it is pretty silly.

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    The word exclusive has no bearing on my opinion of a game. Hell, the best looking games on console (and best playing games) IMO are 3rd party games. I hope that the Xbox 3 architecture is easy as pie for 3rd party developers. Give me more 3rd party love.

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    I think it`s bollocks personally...

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    Personally I think this is just wishful thinking, consoles are usually as powerful as decent mid to high end gaming rigs in their launch years, and for good reason : pricing. If MS actually went with such powerful tech, they might be forced to jack the price up and above Orbis, which I'm pretty sure they don't want. If true though (just for the sake of it), it'd force Sony to really up the ante with their next machines, cuz both MS and Sony want the largest piece of 3rd party support for their next consoles. If any console has a bottleneck that makes porting a nightmare, devs will probably stay far away so I do expect some parity between the next xbox and ps4/orbis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PS3-The Ultimate Machine View Post
    Personally I think this is just wishful thinking, consoles are usually as powerful as decent mid to high end gaming rigs in their launch years, and for good reason : pricing. If MS actually went with such powerful tech, they might be forced to jack the price up and above Orbis, which I'm pretty sure they don't want. If true though (just for the sake of it), it'd force Sony to really up the ante with their next machines, cuz both MS and Sony want the largest piece of 3rd party support for their next consoles. If any console has a bottleneck that makes porting a nightmare, devs will probably stay far away so I do expect some parity between the next xbox and ps4/orbis.
    http://www.gamestop.com/mrkt/landing...nment-for-All/
    http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox360/co...inment-for-all

    Microsoft has been testing $99 and $150 xboxs on sale since may of last year. Its obviously a test for nextgen with Microsoft partnering with Cable companies.

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    Misterxmedia: That is a system!

    Well, it was almost the same as we dag ...there is gonna be 3x SOCs...Will it be hard to port from PC to Xbox Next? Will it be the current situation with multiplatform on 360 and ps3 but only vise versa(180 degree oposite)?
    Insider: But omni is still a big jump... It has an

    Apu with a fast gpu.. 4 gig of ddr3 and very much the same gddr5 ram.. Cpu cores are x86 but the bus is 256bit/ not 384bit like xbox next.. And only the main gup is full hsa.. 3.2tf console both console use stacking .. But xbox next has an extra venus soc and -alot of edram shared between chips.. We all feel -omni is more of a pc in it design .. Or more of the shelf then durango.. As durango has more modded design .better buss higher memory speeds and extra rendering tech .. Id look at durango as high level -pc and omni as a medium setting pc..
    The thing about omni is it will upscale to 4k but the iq is very low in regards to durango. More res dont equal better I.Q. I can see games will scale across wii/xbox/omni with ease. But first party games and some 3rd party will look amazing on durango no doubt you will see a big difference.

    But sony has some good dev tools but ms is just more developed.

    Insider: And knowing the industry campers on forms ... Lets clear this up!!
    Microsoft has massive budget for there Kryptos Project..

    And like I have said these "SOC" are only based on Pc gpus buy name and basic specs.. These are not the type of hardware you can purchase at your store.

    A lot of money has been invested into these chips.. Power tdp and cooling has been the main factors in there design But also wafer density 28nm chip sizes.

    The mars system "SOC" is running @600mhz there is an audio dsp on this chip and a 4 core cpu.. It has 4 cores 1 thread per core. And runs @ 1.8 ghz.. This chip does not run hot its all most identical to the wii u.. But due to the nature of the 8850 gpu. Which is not the same as the pc counter part .. Its gflops is close to 650. This chip has access to the edram and main system ram which is 4gbs of ddr4.

    Now the application / real hardware .. Is based on a
    venus a dual gpu design. But these are costume designed.. Also not your standard pc part.

    Each venus soc ..contains a 4 core cpu which has 4 threads per core. These are clocked @ 2.4ghz.
    The gpus are 800mhz with 1.5gbs of gddr5 ram clocked @ 1.2ghz. They are not clocked as high as there pc counter parts. Hense there not of the shelf parts. And do not need the tdp ether.

    There gpu each have 1.2tf each. Now each chip has a hardware dsp for rendering future engines that are not possible on pc at this time.. and a hardware blitter
    . Which has access to the edram and system memory.

    The mars soc uses 40/70 watts
    The venus are 80/110watts the external power is 300watts but we are using 230watts or that is what we believe system draw is. Or the hardware techs suggested when we spoke.

    Now on paper the whole sdk is around 3.2tf. but with the blitter and dsp the system can produce around 4.2ft on paper.. Which is the second fastest chip even fast performance then starsha. As that is all most identical soc but except it has one higher clocked 8970 gpu.. No blitter no edram and the memory bus is 256bit. Starsha gddr is also 256bit. Starsha is a 3.2tf console. Hence ms design change in december 2012. They changed to
    2x venus 9850 spec soc with gddr5 when it was found that sony had updated there design to have more faster ram and gpu. Also the soc in starsha is an 8 core jaguar at 2.0ghz.. But it has two threads per-core.

    Like i have said starsha
    or thebes is still a massive jump... now oban is not inside starsha .. Oban is the name of the blitter and buss chip that controls the 3x soc in kryptos. Its 384bit and has 550gb/s it was designed to enhance the sysyem for ray tracing and other memory heavy rendering engines "ray tracing" Starsha main design is 4k gaming.. But it will not have special hardware for ray tracing. The reason behind such different
    Between the two console company's
    Is sony as a whole company need the omni to drive there tv sector 4k tv's 8k but Starsha can not drive iq at 4k or 8k with the iq that 1080p or 2k will have. Yes there is up-scale. Oban is the game changer for ms. You all will see very soon with your own eyes and ears.

    MIsterxmedia: so, I see difficulties to achieve 4.2T performance on 2xSOC on Xbox rather than 3.2T on 1 SOC of PS4 in multiplatform games. Is that true? Porting problems ahead for xbox? Xbox will use only 1SOC because 1SOC will be on PS4 and PC or it will scale automatically to 2xSOC on xbox
    Insider: starsha = 3.2tf and kryptos 4.2
    It would be hard to -archive if it was not for oban design ..

    I have heard starsha kits have very bad heating problems due to the gpu + soc not being specialize enough.. I think that has come down to sony not having enough money to invest in rnd.
    But fanboy only want to hear what they want to hear.. And pc master race also..
    The xbox360 is 8 year old tech.
    A lot has happen in the tech word.
    With soc design ms.ibm.amd have worked on this design for over two years now.. Oban/venus. they have included bte cpu enabled gpus.. With hsa vte.
    There is so much to say but id rather people wait and see it with there own eyes.
    I would never say that the gpus are 100% there pc counterparts.
    They are modified. And each console has its own power and heat level.. that is why iv said this is not off the shelf hardware well starsha is but only with the gpu.

    And also a lot of people are comparing starsha and kryptos by saying that starsha is more powerful well its because you are comparing them to early sdk. Sony
    Starsha has been in final sdk since december.. As ms only just got kryptos out to dev at the start of this month.. Omni is in fab right now as Sony are trying to lunch ahead of of ms xbox next, which is going to mass production on the 23th of this month.


    Misterxmedia: So the answer is - PS4 will be more powerful in multiplatform...

    Sonyboys will do that conclusion very quickly and i see that now too. but maybe i don't understand many things...

    Also PS4 is 8 gb and Xbox is 7 gb of RAM?

    Insider: Every multi platform or 3rd party game will look better on
    xbox next.. And first party games will look better then other company's offerings.
    Amd cards 10000hd series will use oban enabled parts .. Its a different acratech to any card to date.. And xbox next will stay -current because of this design.
    8gig.. But 1 gig is for os.. And and multi apps running behind os and also video skype chat in game feature..
    This 1 gig can not be used for games.

    Misterxmedia: But 1.2T GPU and 1.8T GPU is a big difference?

    Is it easy to automatically use 2SOCs and make 1.2Tx2 = 2.4T GPU power?

    PC offerings will continue use Nvidia 1SOC paradigm...or it wil be easy to port?
    Insider: .2tf is old so is sony 1.8

    Xbox is 4.2 omni is 3.2
    Its no difference to developing for 360... The tools are highly- developed to handle the system.
    And the first time you see xbox iq you will know... The winner.
    The hardest part will be for studios to work with ray traced graphics enabled engines.. And its going to come down to the story and game .. There are a lot
    Of factors .. We have the graphics now...


    misterxmedia: No, i mean 1.2T for 1 SOC GPU in xbox(1.2x2Socs total on GPU part) as you said today and i can guess 1.8T for GPU in PS4 if its total 3.2T.

    Many PC engines will use only 1 GPU on software level if only it will scale automatically....so only 1SOC for majority engines to use on xbox next?
    Insider: The 2xvenus and 1x mars are design with oban controllers. These soc can work together. But they do not need crossfire..

    Porting is not a problem.. Porting pc games
    would be a lot easer this time...

    Any part of the engine code can be sent to any cpu core or gpu dsp its very open..
    due to the blitter.

    Misterxmedia: ok, but i still can not see 2x or 3x xbox next more powerful. it will be interesting have a good day and thank a lot

    Insider: I can because i have seen it..

    Tflops is only half the picture there is stuff in this console that will change the way we see gfx
    http://misterxmedia.livejournal.com/113960.html

    -3x SOC (not 2)
    -1 x MARS APU (4 core) which is a system chip.
    -2 X VENUS chips which are 4 core each with 4 threads per core =16 threads
    -"Starsha" name for PS4 SOC which has faster 8970 GPU
    -"Starsha" is 8 Jaguar core.
    -Main difference is OBAN chip which control all 3 SOC on next Xbox allowing for better performance.
    -OBAN also capable of raytracing.
    _December delay fo rchip was to upgrade VENUS GPU after finding out SONy had upped there GPU


    Salt at the door, grab a pinch.
    Last edited by mynd; 01-17-2013 at 20:22.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    The word exclusive has no bearing on my opinion of a game. Hell, the best looking games on console (and best playing games) IMO are 3rd party games. I hope that the Xbox 3 architecture is easy as pie for 3rd party developers. Give me more 3rd party love.
    Assassin's Creed, Bioshock, CoD, etc are some of the most popular IP's out there so MS is better off catering to them and making sure that their games look great on the nextbox.
    I don't need no stinkin' signature!

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    This feels like he's pulling it all from his ass. looks very fanboyish.

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    you see that quote that says 'the 720 will be able to do things that you're current PC can't'?

    sounds great doesn't it?

    the beginning of that quote was "i love how you guys think anything >1TF is weak"

    doesn't sound like the misterxmedia specs, does it?
    Got YLOD? In the UK? I'll buy it off you.

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