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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by J3ff3 View Post
    well, its not possible to believe all of them, because they are contradictory.

    all i am saying is that it IS very easy to dismiss some because they are clearly plagurised from uninformed sources who are seeking attention. i'm not dismissing the whole 3Soc idea, but i very much doubt a 3/4TF machine with raytracing (although RT has a little merit due to dev comments, but not much). i also don't believe the blitter bollocks.

    and unfortunately, as this whole architecture came from 1 rumour and 1 'insider', these pieces of information do devalue the whole "leak" when compared to other bits of information we have that seem to coroborate each other.

    just because we can't know for sure, doesn't mean we have to allow logic to go out the window and start running away with every and any speculation that suits us. obviously the source matters. noone is going to take this post and start tweeting about how the new PS4 beams pictures directly into the brain, just because i mention it here. why is that if everything has merit?
    I couldn't agree more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    So it seems that based on GAF, and other sites, this is the most credible rumor I have seen so far. I guess we should know hopefully by the end of 2013.

    Are you serious?

    Ive been on the forums on Neogaf for pretty much every page up and from what i seen 95% of people in there said the nowgamer article is full of crap...

    Read from page 4 to 8, even asking for it to be removed because of how OOT it sounds. ><
    Last edited by LfCpS3; 01-18-2013 at 23:03.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LfCpS3 View Post
    Are you serious?

    Ive been on the forums on Neogaf for pretty much every page up and from what i seen 95% of people in there said the nowgamer article is full of crap...

    Read from page 4 to 8, even asking for it to be removed because of how OOT it sounds. ><

    and this theme seems to echo around all forums that have been following the spec rumours for some time.

    this board, by contrast, has NOT been paying much attention, which is why so few are questioning these specs.

    the prevailing and "latest" specs are very similar to the vgleaks 6 months ago if memory serves correctly, not these, which seem to have little basis. which is a shame.
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    Strange vg247 said ps4 is 50percent more powerful. I dont know what to believe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sith View Post
    Strange vg247 said ps4 is 50percent more powerful. I dont know what to believe.

    best to ignore everything till sony/MS officially release it.

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  7. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by LfCpS3 View Post
    best to ignore everything till sony/MS officially release it.
    why?

    the problem here is we seem to have confused rumours that are clearly from fanboy sources, (and i stress i'm not talking about the mainstream journalism that lazily picks up on any rumour that may attract hits) and sources that actually inspire technical discussion.

    there is a BIG difference.

    put it this way. by now i'm sure everyone knows my bias. i have always prefered the 360, even though my favourite game is GoW. i want the 720 to be better, because i know their UI will be - and this is a massive bugbear of mine. i think the ps3 is a better console, marred by $#@! interface and poor controls. anyway, the point is DECENT rumours, however incomplete (and this is where i think the 720 will surprise people), point to better conventional specs for the ps4. currently both look underwhelming, but the ps4, from a conventional standpoint - which maynot be the best comparison, looks a good way ahead. i don't believe any of the latest misterxmedia claims, because they are baseless. i killed my inner fanboy years ago so i don't have to listen to it.

    if we want to have decent discussion of rumours, we need to talk from a technical standpoint - not pick up on every bit of propaganda that suits our agenda.

    OT:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by liquidboy
    Interesting you bring up DSP ... I've been following the DSP discussion for the Durango perspective (all rumors of course)...

    From what I can gather MS will have a couple of DSP's that are being sold as a way to "future proof" the system..

    We have an Audio DSP sitting on 1 of the 3 socs
    We have Hardware DSP's sitting on the other 2 socs.

    The following patents from MS

    1. "Using ray tracing for real time audio synthesis"
    2. "Exposing off-host audio processing capabilities"

    Explicitly these patents talk about how "Audio DSP" on a device can be used as a source of audio stream signals that can be pushed to
    a) other SoC/Components within the host for processing
    b) to a different external host (like the cloud) for processing

    (interestingly it uses RayTracing techniques to carry out processing of these signals)

    The result of the processing can be returned back to the host, if it was processed outside of it, and the played ...

    There are other patents that talk about using the other DSP's (video/HW) as sources of streams that can be orchestrated outside of the Host (cloud etc) ... basically using similar techniques as the audio dsp

    I guess that's one way MS is future proofing its console, by adding a dimension of the cloud to augment their hardware via these DSP's...

    I know its all rumors but its ive always been interested in the rumors of Durango and its DSP's as being a differentiating point ...

    How would raytracing audio work? Use the tracing to figure out how sound would bounce? Seems cool, makes more sense than VTE for doing raytracing lighting.

    Are we sure there won't be a VTE in Durango? Somenoe said raytracing takes alot of memory maybe this si why there is 8gb of GDRR5 in durango? i think durango will do raytracing, or maybe its just what i really wan to happen

    i guess a better question is why WOULDN'T there be VTE in durango for raytracing? if a 680gtx can do raytracing whats to say a vte made just for raytracing wouldn't happen?

    or should i am just kidding myself? (be brutally honest guys!)
    http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.p...ostcount=19135

    come on, discussing this sort of thing is surely much more interesting? what is it that makes devs claim "there isn't much in it"?

    i know little about raytracing, but i find it interesting to see that noone technical really believes its possible for graphics, and then interesting links start merging with the DSP custom unit rumours.

    i agree, unit we get the final specs, don't argue about which is better based on 'my blog is better than yours', but look at what rumours have any basis. that's why i like the DF article. they have CLEARLY double checked and cross checked rumours before posting them. everything they've reported has at least a few sources.

    its not just from $#@!ing misterxmedia!!
    Last edited by J3ff3; 01-19-2013 at 03:03.
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    Quote Originally Posted by J3ff3 View Post
    why?

    the problem here is we seem to have confused rumours that are clearly from fanboy sources, (and i stress i'm not talking about the mainstream journalism that lazily picks up on any rumour that may attract hits) and sources that actually inspire technical discussion.

    there is a BIG difference.

    put it this way. by now i'm sure everyone knows my bias. i have always prefered the 360, even though my favourite game is GoW. i want the 720 to be better, because i know their UI will be - and this is a massive bugbear of mine. i think the ps3 is a better console, marred by $#@! interface and poor controls. anyway, the point is DECENT rumours, however incomplete (and this is where i think the 720 will surprise people), point to better conventional specs for the ps4. currently both look underwhelming, but the ps4, from a conventional standpoint - which maynot be the best comparison, looks a good way ahead. i don't believe any of the latest misterxmedia claims, because they are baseless. i killed my inner fanboy years ago so i don't have to listen to it.

    if we want to have decent discussion of rumours, we need to talk from a technical standpoint - not pick up on every bit of propaganda that suits our agenda.

    OT:

    http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.p...ostcount=19135

    come on, discussing this sort of thing is surely much more interesting? what is it that makes devs claim "there isn't much in it"?

    i know little about raytracing, but i find it interesting to see that noone technical really believes its possible for graphics, and then interesting links start merging with the DSP custom unit rumours.

    i agree, unit we get the final specs, don't argue about which is better based on 'my blog is better than yours', but look at what rumours have any basis. that's why i like the DF article. they have CLEARLY double checked and cross checked rumours before posting them. everything they've reported has at least a few sources.

    its not just from $#@!ing misterxmedia!!
    DF is the ones saying 8x jaguar core and 8gb of ram for PS4?

  9. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    DF is the ones saying 8x jaguar core and 8gb of ram for PS4?
    yeah, i take it back, that wasn't the one i was thinking of! *let me have a look for the right one.

    i have read the DF one though, and still think that it is better researched than some of the more recent articles, but ill admit there is some possible confusion in the piece (again from forums!) "secret sauce" for example was consistantly used (and is used in inverted commas in their article, suggesting plagiarism) in reference to the durango on several forums, not the ps4. this came from the idea that the 720 had several customisations to help the apparently weaker gpu (blitter? raytracing?! DSP etc). and i think 8 gigs is personally a similar confusion - but as you said, speculation is speculation. a 4 to 8 gig jump is not implausible. it may well stem from prior documents or toying with the idea of DDR ram on sony's part. or just confusion by DF between the two consoles. a ~1-1.5tf to 3-4tf, however, is a stretch, imo. i can't see how that leap is made without justification.

    but the underlying specs, jaguar etc, seem much better researched and matched with most of what we know. again there is debate, but in terms of scale it is negligable (like the outdated idea that they were steamroller cores, or that jaguar cores were too big and not powerful enough). there was always reason behind the speculation and the disagreements. its why these misterxmedia rumours are just laughed out of technical forums. they are the equivalent of those vgcharts around here


    *ill add the disclaimer that mynd, you are far more technical than i am. have a read around - and i mean following a few of the big threads from (ok not quite) start to finish. you'd gain much more from them and be able to pass on much better knowledge here than i would. i can just see where and how the rumours are being manipulated because i read the threads everyday. these things have 5,6,7 pages added within an afternoon. some of them are quite active and worth keeping up to date on. i think you'd enjoy them!
    Last edited by J3ff3; 01-19-2013 at 03:53.
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    new xbox sounds like the Atari Jaguar's Tom and Jerry BS lol

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    No matter which rumors are true and which are not, the one sure thing is that the nextbox is going to be an absolute BEAST! Will it be more "powerful" than the PS4, who really cares? I'm sure each system will have their advantages and disadvantages. One thing for sure is that the nextbox will replace my 360 and my current 3D Blu-Ray, (my PS3) as the only console I'll need and own.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Man Gamer View Post
    No matter which rumors are true and which are not, the one sure thing is that the nextbox is going to be an absolute BEAST! Will it be more "powerful" than the PS4, who really cares?
    i'd care because i want the best games console next gen, although there are a few caveats(sic?) to that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yungstar 2006 View Post
    i'd care because i want the best games console next gen, although there are a few caveats(sic?) to that.
    But that's the whole thing, there will be no "best". Both will have pluses and minuses. I think we should just be happy with our console and enjoy it for what it is.

    Me, I'm getting the nextbox regardless of what Sony does with their next console. I know the nextbox will be a great machine, have great third party support and will be a great multimedia machine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Man Gamer View Post
    But that's the whole thing, there will be no "best". Both will have pluses and minuses.
    oh, there will definitely be a best console for me. it will be the one that offers the most pluses when it comes to games. nothing that adds to say the media side of things will i consider a plus and from what rumours i've read so far (sure they could/will change). it is MS that is moving away from what i want in a games console.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yungstar 2006 View Post
    oh, there will definitely be a best console for me. it will be the one that offers the most pluses when it comes to games. nothing that adds to say the media side of things will i consider a plus and from what rumours i've read so far (sure they could/will change). it is MS that is moving away from what i want in a games console.
    Yeah but the majority of third parties will be building to the least common denominator. Only a few first party games are going to hit the last of us/Halo 4 levels in the first place.

    Also personally I'd rather have an all in one conolse than some box that just plays games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shingi70 View Post
    Yeah but the majority of third parties will be building to the least common denominator. Only a few first party games are going to hit the last of us/Halo 4 levels in the first place.

    Also personally I'd rather have an all in one conolse than some box that just plays games.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

    That's the thing, the ps4 will no doubt have that media side to it, look at the ps4.

    It probably will not focus as much on that as the 720 ( plus with the rumoured xbox having a full windows 8 as the OS... not sure i like that tbh)

    Personally i think SONY will have the right balance of games to other media.

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    VG Leaks Durango Unveiled
    As we promised during the weekend in the next weeks we will unveil Durango and Orbis. All the technical info you want to know about the next generation machines from Sony and Microsoft.

    The first one is Durango. In this article we present the system overview with the general components and some technical details about them.

    How are durango components connected?

    Here you can see the Durango system block diagram:

    Let’s check what’s inside the box:

    CPU:

    - x64 Architecture

    - 8 CPU cores running at 1.6 gigahertz (GHz)

    - each CPU thread has its own 32 KB L1 instruction cache and 32 KB L1 data cache

    - each module of four CPU cores has a 2 MB L2 cache resulting in a total of 4 MB of L2 cache

    - each core has one fully independent hardware thread with no shared execution resources

    - each hardware thread can issue two instructions per clock

    GPU:

    - custom D3D11.1 class 800-MHz graphics processor

    - 12 shader cores providing a total of 768 threads

    - each thread can perform one scalar multiplication and addition operation (MADD) per clock cycle

    - at peak performance, the GPU can effectively issue 1.2 trillion floating-point operations per second

    High-fidelity Natural User Interface (NUI) sensor is always present

    Storage and Memory:

    - 8 gigabyte (GB) of RAM DDR3 (68 GB/s)

    - 32 MB of fast embedded SRAM (ESRAM) (102 GB/s)

    - from the GPU’s perspective the bandwidths of system memory and ESRAM are parallel providing combined peak bandwidth of 170 GB/sec.

    - Hard drive is always present

    - 50 GB 6x Blu-ray Disc drive

    Networking:

    - Gigabit Ethernet

    - Wi-Fi and Wi-Fi Direct

    Hardware Accelerators:

    - Move engines

    - Image, video, and audio codecs

    - Kinect multichannel echo cancellation (MEC) hardware

    - Cryptography engines for encryption and decryption, and hashing

    We will give more detailed information about each component in future articles.

    Next… Orbis.
    Last edited by Itachi; 01-21-2013 at 15:15.

  18. #67
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    I do not see this being fact... This next gen between these two, could and might go either way

    Depends on how much time they have actually put into their respective consoles and also money is the big thing here

    will Sony make a massive lost this time around or have they learnt from the PS3 lessons. Also Microsoft will use current tech like Kinect and just upgrade it a wee bit, and pass it of as if it is Next-gen Kinect

    So goes for the PS3 Move
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  19. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Man Gamer View Post
    But that's the whole thing, there will be no "best". Both will have pluses and minuses. I think we should just be happy with our console and enjoy it for what it is.

    Me, I'm getting the nextbox regardless of what Sony does with their next console. I know the nextbox will be a great machine, have great third party support and will be a great multimedia machine.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
    Great 3rd party support is the most important to me and MS definitley has that going into next gen. But I dont know who I'm rolling with on day one until I see the games.
    Last edited by mistercrow; 01-21-2013 at 20:07.

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    Quote Originally Posted by radgamer420 View Post
    Great 3rd party support is the most important to me and MS definitley has that going into next gen. But I dont know who I'm rolling with on day one until I see the games.
    Agreed.

    Personally, exclusives aren't that important to me. Most of what I play is multi-platform anyway but if a decent exclusive comes along I'll pick it up. There are no exclusives that make me want one console over another. I've always favored the Xbox over the Playstation so I'll be sticking with it again next gen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    Digital Foundry speaking on those leaks..
    So the question of the hour is, just how accurate is the information? Based on our communications with the leaker, the data appears genuine - the only real question is how recent it is. The proof presented by the source suggests that the data is at most nine months old: factoring in how long it takes to create a console, the chances are that there will not be many changes implemented since then.
    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df...box-specs-leak

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Man Gamer View Post
    Agreed. Personally, exclusives aren't that important to me. Most of what I play is multi-platform anyway but if a decent exclusive comes along I'll pick it up. There are no exclusives that make me want one console over another. I've always favored the Xbox over the Playstation so I'll be sticking with it again next gen.
    Fair enough. Theres nothing wrong with that. I prefer the Xbox as well but we'll see what happens.
    Last edited by mistercrow; 01-21-2013 at 23:02.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yungstar 2006 View Post
    Digital Foundry speaking on those leaks..

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df...box-specs-leak

    So according to someone in the know, that diagram is lacking, or completely neglecting an entire block.
    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?"
    --Kaz Hirai, CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment

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    Quote Originally Posted by X2 View Post
    So according to someone in the know, that diagram is lacking, or completely neglecting an entire block.
    where does it say that? as far as i'm aware, 3 were rumoured. we just have no idea what they all do.

    and as for the articles comment on 'nothing will change in 9 months' - pretty sure the orbis went from 2-4 gig in that time frame.

    i'm hoping something will, because i'm not *overly* impressed with either. yes, we don't know about the custom blocks properly yet, and there maybe other things (HSA?) implemented that make these consoles powerful, but i don't consider them 'beasts' by any stretch of the imagination, and i'm struggling to see what 'investments' or ventures MS has had with AMD. it all looks rather basic.

    lets hope that's a sign that there is much more to come.
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    Quote Originally Posted by J3ff3 View Post
    where does it say that? as far as i'm aware, 3 were rumoured. we just have no idea what they all do.

    and as for the articles comment on 'nothing will change in 9 months' - pretty sure the orbis went from 2-4 gig in that time frame.

    i'm hoping something will, because i'm not *overly* impressed with either. yes, we don't know about the custom blocks properly yet, and there maybe other things (HSA?) implemented that make these consoles powerful, but i don't consider them 'beasts' by any stretch of the imagination, and i'm struggling to see what 'investments' or ventures MS has had with AMD. it all looks rather basic.

    lets hope that's a sign that there is much more to come.
    No one was gonna 'invest' much in these anyway. heck we all expected someone to go the Wii route and I'm MORE than impressed by these specs. I really don't care for arguing over stupids numbers, its the games that will speak, and if we get The Last of Us now then I cant wait to see what Sony's first party does next gen.

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    From thw same article
    UPDATE: VG247 has just revealed areport ofa source that hasrevealed to the site that thePS4 isin fact more powerful than the Xbox 720. Here the source claims the PS4 will be capableof 1.82TFlops while the Xbox720 iscapable of only 1.23 TFlops.

    It's a world away from thedetails we've posted here, but weurge you to have a read and judge for yourself.

    As always it'sworth remember that thisis all earlyconjecture - how trueany of this is hard to gauge until wesee final confirmation of the hardware.
    Why is this thread even open?
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