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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    I did respond I think.

    What I said there was, ESRAM is no full replacement for sticks of GDDR5. It definitely helps to be sure, but I wouldn't say that it negates the advantages of actually going with a superior memory type.

    And even with the ESRAM, according to the numbers we have, the 720's bandwidth is still lower.

    @Mynd

    I'm talking a bout the cost of including the unit in every box- not the R&D. That money has to come from somewhere in the budget man. They either raise the price, sell at a loss (unlikely) or cut corners on hardware. Simple math.
    And given the rumours that kinect 2 has an integrated processor this time around, it'll cost even more.

  2. #102
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    It seems whenever is Sony is behind in specs, they are significantly behind, but whenever they are ahead of the competitors, they are just barely so. Smh.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedOrb_Collector View Post
    It seems whenever is Sony is behind in specs, they are significantly behind, but whenever they are ahead of the competitors, they are just barely so. Smh.
    Example and proof?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    I did respond I think.

    What I said there was, ESRAM is no full replacement for sticks of GDDR5. It definitely helps to be sure, but I wouldn't say that it negates the advantages of actually going with a superior memory type.

    And even with the ESRAM, according to the numbers we have, the 720's bandwidth is still lower.

    @Mynd

    I'm talking a bout the cost of including the unit in every box- not the R&D. That money has to come from somewhere in the budget man. They either raise the price, sell at a loss (unlikely) or cut corners on hardware. Simple math.
    Ill look later - sorry, but I'm on my phone and its a ballache!

    Anyway, yes your right 170 and esram are lower, but unlikely low enough to be a limitation imo. The same applies to the amount of ram in the ps4. Its lower, but I doubt that will have any real impact.

    Anyway, perhaps you can shed light on a confusion I have-there must be more to the 720. No one would use ddr in conjunction with a video card would they? No modern cards do as far as I'm aware. The 360 didn't either. There must be another piece of the puzzle, no?
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    N64 was graphically superior to the PS1 very noticeably. The PS2 when it launched barely had any games that looked as good--let alone any better than the Dreamcast, and then the PS3 is only notably ahead of the 360 in disc space. It has the same amount of RAM and arguably an inferior gpu.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedOrb_Collector View Post
    N64 was graphically superior to the PS1 very noticeably. The PS2 when it launched barely had any games that looked as good--let alone any better than the Dreamcast, and then the PS3 is only notably ahead of the 360 in disc space. It has the same amount of RAM and arguably an inferior gpu.
    I don't know about psOne but imo ps2 wasn't significantly weaker than xbox. PS3 technically had better specs (shame only some games show that) and now orbis as it stands is again more technically capable than durango by a decent amount(50% faster GPU, 3x faster RAM). Will have to wait for announcements to be sure but either way, its nothing to be disappointed about.

    Apparently durango has some secret blocks of hardware to assist the weaker GPU. Honestly that seems like a stretch to me
    Last edited by Itachi; 01-23-2013 at 18:53.

  7. #107
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    As it stands it apparently has half the RAM as well, and I think that will have a bigger affect on things.

    We'll see I guess.

    PS3 may be technically more capable, but again its not really noticeable, hence my original point.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedOrb_Collector View Post
    As it stands it apparently has half the RAM as well, and I think that will have a bigger affect on things.

    We'll see I guess.

    PS3 may be technically more capable, but again its not really noticeable, hence my original point.
    Bandwidth is better for longevity of a system (it's arguable though). With increasing software sophistication, efficiencies and optimzations memory usage can go down (albeit only to some extent). Bandwidth cannot be increased.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by J3ff3 View Post
    Ill look later - sorry, but I'm on my phone and its a ballache!

    Anyway, yes your right 170 and esram are lower, but unlikely low enough to be a limitation imo. The same applies to the amount of ram in the ps4. Its lower, but I doubt that will have any real impact.

    Anyway, perhaps you can shed light on a confusion I have-there must be more to the 720. No one would use ddr in conjunction with a video card would they? No modern cards do as far as I'm aware. The 360 didn't either. There must be another piece of the puzzle, no?
    The 4 data engines and the ESRAM are there to make up for the deficit.

    And the present rumor suggests that the 720 OS will take up 1-2 CPU cores and 3GB of RAM. The answer, based on these rumors, is that MS wants this to do alot more than just gaming.

    So gaming is going to suffer with this box.


    In contrast, rumors peg the Orbis\PS4 as having more bandwidth, a better kind of memory for the GPU (GDDR), a better GPU, a slimmer OS (512MB or so) and not even utilizing a full CPU core for OS purposes. Some are even talking about a possible ARM core that does all the security\OS stuff and not touch the central CPU, but whatever.

    So based only off these rumors, things are not looking good for "core gamers" who want to buy this Xbox vis a vis Playstation guys.

    Although some rumored dev guy said that the Orbis "does not have 4GB of RAM". Validity of his authority aside, his statement is ambigous. If the Orbis has less RAM than Sony went full retard. If it has more than 4GB than this only serves to further break the Durango's back in performance.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 01-23-2013 at 17:12.


  10. #110
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    The very thought of MS wanting to put Kinect into every Xbox makes me question their focus as far as "core gamers" go.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by radgamer420 View Post
    The very thought of MS wanting to put Kinect into every Xbox makes me question their focus as far as "core gamers" go.
    Come on! When you die in Call of Duty, then can make it where you have to drop and do 20 push ups before your character will re-spawn!


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  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    The 4 data engines and the ESRAM are there to make up for the deficit.

    And the present rumor suggests that the 720 OS will take up 1-2 CPU cores and 3GB of RAM. The answer, based on these rumors, is that MS wants this to do alot more than just gaming.

    So gaming is going to suffer with this box.


    In contrast, rumors peg the Orbis\PS4 as having more bandwidth, a better kind of memory for the GPU (GDDR), a better GPU, a slimmer OS (512MB or so) and not even utilizing a full CPU core for OS purposes. Some are even talking about a possible ARM core that does all the security\OS stuff and not touch the central CPU, but whatever.

    So based only off these rumors, things are not looking good for "core gamers" who want to buy this Xbox vis a vis Playstation guys.

    Although some rumored dev guy said that the Orbis "does not have 4GB of RAM". Validity of his authority aside, his statement is ambigous. If the Orbis has less RAM than Sony went full retard. If it has more than 4GB than this only serves to further break the Durango's back in performance.
    my question though was why would ms use ddr3 when it has never been used as memory for a video card? surely there is a missing element here?

    - * edit, and i see average gamer has pretty much asked the same question in a different thread
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  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyClaw View Post
    Come on! When you die in Call of Duty, then can make it where you have to drop and do 20 push ups before your character will re-spawn!
    lol I can stand in the middle of the room waving my arms around to call in an airstrike.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedOrb_Collector View Post
    N64 was graphically superior to the PS1 very noticeably. The PS2 when it launched barely had any games that looked as good--let alone any better than the Dreamcast, and then the PS3 is only notably ahead of the 360 in disc space. It has the same amount of RAM and arguably an inferior gpu.
    No....you was fooled by the bilinear texture filtering
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEQNu0jqhr4
    And Tekken Tag was stunning, and remember Onimusha was released a few months later

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  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    I don't know about psOne but imo ps2 wasn't significantly weaker than xbox. PS3 technically had better specs (shame only some games show that) and now orbis as it stands is again more technically capable than durango by a decent amount(50% faster GPU, 3x faster RAM). Will have to wait for announcements to be sure but either way, its nothing to be disappointing about.

    Apparently durango has some secret blocks of hardware to assist the weaker GPU. Honestly that seems like a stretch to me
    Yeas it was. Weaker than the Gamecube even. You see the difference in game like Halo, KOTOR and Mechassault among others.

  16. #116
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  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    I don't know about psOne but imo ps2 wasn't significantly weaker than xbox. PS3 technically had better specs (shame only some games show that) and now orbis as it stands is again more technically capable than durango by a decent amount(50% faster GPU, 3x faster RAM). Will have to wait for announcements to be sure but either way, its nothing to be disappointing about.

    Apparently durango has some secret blocks of hardware to assist the weaker GPU. Honestly that seems like a stretch to me
    PS2 was a significantly weaker system than the original xbox. From
    Cpu, gpu, memory to even having its own hard drive the xbox was a significantly more powerfull system.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    PS2 was a significantly weaker system than the original xbox. From
    Cpu, gpu, memory to even having its own hard drive the xbox was a significantly more powerfull system.
    It was, it was also older too
    But peoples common mistake is thinking the PS2 was a weak system
    The only thing that stood against the newer systems was its crazy bandwidth
    But the system it self was just made at the wrong time
    I put this to someone before and it change the way they looked at so
    Could imagine a PS2 with a EE @733
    the ram that was in the Xbox, HDD, and all the bells & whistles including DX features and the PS2 crazy bandwidth in 98?
    it would have been madness, Sony coming out at E3 and saying here the specs for PS2, not mention some of the features in the Xbox's GPU never existed
    Ken would really be crazy ken if that happen because it would have been impossible
    For what and when the PS2 was made, it was a monster
    The Xbox was just a result of how tech had moved on in such a short space of time


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    Last edited by TGO; 01-24-2013 at 14:36.

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  19. #119
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    I wish I would never have sold my original Xbox on eBay. I need to remember to collect these things.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    I wish I would never have sold my original Xbox on eBay. I need to remember to collect these things.
    I was thinking the same thing earlier this morning, years ago I sold my...

    Original NES
    Super NES
    Gamecube
    N64
    PSP
    Playstation 1
    Playstation 2
    Sega Genesis
    Sega Saturn
    Sega Dreamcast
    Panasonic 3DO
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    ...and I am really kicking myself for it now...I have managed to re-buy a Playstation 1, Sega Genesis, Super NES and Nintendo, but I wish I had my original consoles because I took extremely good care of them and kept them in mint condition! Looking back now, I have spent a f-load of money on gaming! Ouch!
    Last edited by MonkeyClaw; 01-24-2013 at 15:09.


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  21. #121
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    I wouldve kept that 3do especially if it worked! I would like to get my hands on a Jaguar CD add on that works lol

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