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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    Yeah, like you said we have no idea how customized the orbis GPU is. But on wednesday maybe we'll see some stuff
    I suspect we wont, but i hope we do see some more in depth techno babble.

  2. #302
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    Certain affects absolutely require GPGPU functions like those 4CU's provide. DX11 effects, for instance. This is why Sony allotted them like that in the first place ostensibly. It makes alot of sense.

    So Durango will still need to pull that 'power' from somewhere if it wants to maintain parity with Orbis.

    Or skimp on features.

    As for this: "All that sound for beeming from the new PS4 controller for example is going to use some processing power."

    And what Kinect 2.0? If it really is packaged in every box and that massive Durango OS utilizes it 24/7 then that will certainly also consume resources.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 02-16-2013 at 20:55.


  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Certain affects absolutely require GPGPU functions like those 4CU's provide. DX11 effects, for instance. This is why Sony allotted them like that in the first place ostensibly. It makes alot of sense.

    So Durango will still need to pull that 'power' from somewhere if it wants to maintain parity with Orbis.
    Compute is for gpgpu, not for gpu.
    Yes you can use it on things like physx engine, but it is not intrinsic to gpu performance. It is still taking on the role of a cpu.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Compute is for gpgpu, not for gpu.
    Yes you can use it on things like physx engine, but it is not intrinsic to gpu performance. It is still taking on the role of a cpu.
    Taking on the role of a CPU in ways like Cell did in PS3 for RSX. That's kind of the point from what I gather.

    This lends itself very well for next gen affects and techniques.

    Further from what I have been reading at B3D, the developers can use them however they want. But they are suited better for certain tasks as you pointed out.


  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post


    They also understand its read write/rate per per pixel is roughly twice that of the PS4 gpu?
    What?


  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    What?
    Well, it is dependent on what we find out on the PS4 GPU, but from what I'm reading so far.

    PS4
    Dual Shader Engines:

    - 1.6 billion triangles/s, 1.6 billion vertices/s
    720
    Triangle rate
    2 tri/clock * 800 MHz = 1.6 Gtri/sec
    Vertex rate
    2 vert/clock * 800 MHz = 1.6 Gvert/sec
    You cannot push more vertices through the PS4 than the 720.

    Both the DB and the CB have substantial caches on die, and all depth and color operations are performed locally in the caches. Access to these caches is faster than access to ESRAM. For this reason, the peak GPU pixel rate can be larger than what raw memory throughput would indicate. The caches are not large enough, however, to fit entire render targets. Therefore, rendering that is localized to a particular area of the screen is more efficient than scattered rendering.
    Must be said, 99% of what you render at any one time is in the one spot.
    Rain would be the obvious exclusion to that.

    Colour buffer

    The CB is optimized for 64-bit-per-pixel types, so there is no local performance advantage in using smaller color formats, although there may still be a substantial bandwidth savings.
    PS4
    32 color ops/cycle
    Now, again, my interpretation of this would be that the ROP is 64 bit per pixel on the 720 and only 32 bits per pixel on the PS4.
    Last edited by mynd; 02-16-2013 at 21:57.

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Well, it is dependent on what we find out on the PS4 GPU, but from what I'm reading so far.
    How are you drawing this conclusion? From where?


  8. #308
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    btw what is durango GPU doing to balance the 2x ROP advantage the orbis has?
    I wonder when a nuclear warhead goes off, does the frame rate of real life drop?

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    btw what is durango GPU doing to balance the 2x ROP advantage the orbis has?
    Read above.
    We don't really have enough info on the PS4 GPU to be sure, so I am guessing/interpreting what we have.
    Last edited by mynd; 02-16-2013 at 21:56.

  10. #310
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    I think this is a gross over simplification.


  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    I think this is a gross over simplification.
    I think the whole CU vs CU and TFlops is an over simplification.

    What is clear is, neither can push through more triangles or vertices than the other.
    What they do with them? Who knows.

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    I think the whole CU vs CU and TFlops is an over simplification.

    What is clear is, neither can push through more triangles or vertices than the other.
    What they do with them? Who knows.
    What good is the vert/tri count when we have tesselation in play? or does the theoretcial vert limit also apply to tesselation?
    I wonder when a nuclear warhead goes off, does the frame rate of real life drop?

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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    What good is the vert/tri count when we have tesselation in play? or does the theoretcial vert limit also apply to tesselation?
    At the end of the day, you still need you primary model data in there.

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    At the end of the day, you still need you primary model data in there.
    I guess. btw do you think tesselation will become more common next gen? cuz if it does, we can say goodbye to geometry pop in and that will be amazing
    I wonder when a nuclear warhead goes off, does the frame rate of real life drop?

  15. #315
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    I wish I understood 10% of what you guys are talking about.

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  17. #316
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    Man. Times like these make me feel so stupid. I have no idea what you guys are talking about.


  18. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by ps3freak18 View Post
    Man. Times like these make me feel so stupid. I have no idea what you guys are talking about.
    I literally don't know sh*t compared to some members here like mynd and jillipone. Everything I've learned is by reading stuff on blogs, forums and dev interviews. Over time its starts to build up, when I joined PSU I didn't know half the stuff I do now. That's the great thing about forums
    I wonder when a nuclear warhead goes off, does the frame rate of real life drop?

  19. #318
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  20. #319
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  22. #320
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    Wee question for Mynd as he seems to be right on the ball.

    Is all the scaremongering on here about the new Xbox blown out of proportion or are we going to have a system that just isnt that great.

  23. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaw3d Genius View Post
    Wee question for Mynd as he seems to be right on the ball.

    Is all the scaremongering on here about the new Xbox blown out of proportion or are we going to have a system that just isnt that great.
    We don't know. However, if these rumors are anything to go by, the PS4 looks better on paper so far and there may be something about the 720 we don't know yet that might give it the boost it needs.

    There's also a chance that PS4 might have something too.

  24. #322
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    Just passing it along from what I read. Here's what a guy that has some inside info has to say about the xbox 720. Take it for what you will. He is putting his gaf account on the line.

    Quote Originally Posted by bgassassin
    - Always online/internet connection required
    - No used games
    - No BC
    - CPU has increased performance over normal Jaguar cores.
    - ~3GB and 2 CPU cores are reserved for the OS, apps, Kinect, etc.
    - Xbox has a crazy (IMO) amount of hardware dedicated to audio tasks (e.g. gaming and Siri capabilities)
    - Kinect is a pack in
    - Same day digital releases for all games
    Last edited by Two4DaMoney; 02-17-2013 at 11:40.


  25. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    We don't know. However, if these rumors are anything to go by, the PS4 looks better on paper so far and there may be something about the 720 we don't know yet that might give it the boost it needs.

    There's also a chance that PS4 might have something too.
    The PS3 is better on paper though and looked what happened in the last 6 years. Saying something is better on paper and scaremongering one way or other is just plain daft.

  26. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaw3d Genius View Post
    The PS3 is better on paper though and looked what happened in the last 6 years. Saying something is better on paper and scaremongering one way or other is just plain daft.
    Except they're not the same situations...not to mention, the PS3 is more powerful, but split RAM caused the multiplat issues.

    With the PS3, the CPU was touted to be more powerful, never the GPU. So we find out that third party devs don't want to take advantage of the CPU because that means more work and with the split RAM, it proved to be an issue.

    With these specs, we know that the PS4 will likely have better graphics, straight up...not relying on anything else. In fact, the 720 so far seems like it may reserve more power for Kinect. The PS4 doesn't have split RAM either so it's just straight up better specs.

    What we don't know is that the 720 may have features that aren't leaked yet and we'll just have to see how the games look like because maybe there's stuff we just don't know. From what we do know so far, and if it's true, there's no contest.

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  28. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two4DaMoney View Post
    Just passing it along from what I read. Here's what a guy that has some inside info has to say about the xbox 720. Take it for what you will. He is putting his gaf account on the line.


    Hmm...what's interesting is that while it's a rumor, it seems plausible why they'd go the Kinect way.

    This generation it wasn't fully utilized...however it definitely is the future in a way and it got them a lot of sales. They can use Kinect and a better-featured Live to stay in competition as this sounds like a better console than what Nintendo came up with (Wii U).

    I think the idea here is to get the hardcore gamers to get into Kinect (while easily taking the casuals that Nintendo can't seem to be able to lead) and if they integrate it like this, would probably be the best way to do it...it's more risky but if done right, the rewards might be plenty.

    That's exactly why the Wii was successful and Move wasn't and Kinect to a certain extent.

    If they do it right in a way that it works and not a gimmick like everything else is...I might just get my first Xbox.

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