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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by brebaz View Post
    Oh, please, and by all means, proceed.
    Soon as you point out the spin we might have something to talk about.

  2. #102
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    From my past experiences with many years of selling high performance audio video components is never buy product based off specs or hype until you see hear and touch it.

    uuummmmm...Fried Beer iis a reality.

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  4. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    PS4
    176gb/s /2 =88 gbs GPU performance? Well actually no, because it apparently shares this with the main cpu (but this is the same for the 720 so we can ignore it).

    So we 88gb/s throughput for memory for GPU ops.


    720
    =68 gb/s through to esram, +return via move blocks=25gbs

    That's a sum total of 25+68=93gb/s for ops.

    I don't think that memory bandwidth is going to be an issue. There is no doubt on the specs we have that the PS4 Gpu is stronger.

    What we are really looking at is those compute units.

    I got to stress, that only in some situations, its not always going to be hitting 93gb/s
    Why would it be an even split for bandwidth with the CPU and GPU? There is no way that the CPU will come close to having anything near the same bandwidth demands as the GPU will. I mean, the Jaguar + 4 CU doing GPGPU stuff might require some more but Jesus no way.

    And the bandwidth being consumed by the CU's meant to work with the CPU will still have to come out of the Durango bandwidth allotment if they wish to emulate similar kinds of effects. Like many DX11 stuff that requires partitioning of GPU resources on contemporary cards.

    Furthermore, while the ESRAM does provide a significant bandwidth boost to Durango it is no real replacement for a large pool of fast RAM.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 02-07-2013 at 15:23.


  5. #104
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    Here's what I see from reading the DME stuff:

    They will allow the durango GPU to reach the theoretical max on a consistent basis. The bandwidth gains are minimal due to the compression/decompression speed being slow. But the point that sticks out is the 'theorectical max' of the GPU itself is 50% lower than the orbis GPU theoretical max.

    Orbis has
    150% ALU
    200% ROPS
    150% CUs
    AND more bandwidth
    I wonder when a nuclear warhead goes off, does the frame rate of real life drop?

  6. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    Here's what I see from reading the DME stuff:

    They will allow the durango GPU to reach the theoretical max on a consistent basis. The bandwidth gains are minimal due to the compression/decompression speed being slow. But the point that sticks out is the 'theorectical max' of the GPU itself is 50% lower than the orbis GPU theoretical max.

    Orbis has
    150% ALU
    200% ROPS
    150% CUs
    AND more bandwidth
    i agree with vulgotha completely on this. from what we know the orbis does trump the durango considerably. but what makes me think twice is that i read all the leaks prior to them appearing on VGleaks. i saw them take shape.

    and the people that were right (superDAE, Ageis etc) also pointed to the fact that there really wasn't much performance difference. which is very odd given what we know. now if i was to accept the technical specs that came primarily from them, why wouldn't i accept their overall impressions?

    eitherway, we'll see how it takes shape. there are definitely some bad signs as to the direction MS are taking, but even if there is a power difference i'm sure there will be enough merit in the system.
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  7. #106
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    We will find out soon enough but I think xbox whatever will hold it's own against PS4. We know that both will be significantly more powerful than last gen offerings. I'm excited regardless of the spec wars going on. Bigger and better games are coming soon.

  8. #107
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    but its all ultimately spoilt by this always on, no used games bollocks imo.....
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  9. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by J3ff3 View Post
    but its all ultimately spoilt by this always on, no used games bollocks imo.....
    Maybe, but I won't jump to conclusions. I'll wait and see what the facts are first.

  10. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Why would it be an even split for bandwidth with the CPU and GPU? There is no way that the CPU will come close to having anything near the same bandwidth demands as the GPU will. I mean, the Jaguar + 4 CU doing GPGPU stuff might require some more but Jesus no way.
    You dont im completely ignoring Cpu use.
    1 gpu op requires a read and a write to vram. In other words half your bandwidth is for reading, half for writing.

    I am just looking at it again, after a good nights sleep and think i screwed up.
    Because the write op is part of it. Most cases your still looking at 176 vs 93gbs.
    And the bandwidth being consumed by the CU's meant to work with the CPU will still have to come out of the Durango bandwidth allotment if they wish to emulate similar kinds of effects. Like many DX11 stuff that requires partitioning of GPU resources on contemporary cards.
    Agree, that why im ignore it as factor on both, im talking just about gpu ops.

    Furthermore, while the ESRAM does provide a significant bandwidth boost to Durango it is no real replacement for a large pool of fast RAM.
    As i say it can help out, but i am still not happy wiith the idea lf ddr3, never have been.
    Last edited by mynd; 02-07-2013 at 18:25.

  11. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by brebaz View Post
    Good job in spinning it around.
    I am going to have to agree with you though i think some people are forgetting that this is speculation, even though it seems legit. Legit sources have been turned out to be false before. so well. who knows

    but something tells me people who are trying to spin this around will never accept it even it does get confirmed.

  12. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by FableMaster View Post
    I am going to have to agree with you though i think some people are forgetting that this is speculation, even though it seems legit. Legit sources have been turned out to be false before. so well. who knows

    but something tells me people who are trying to spin this around will never accept it even it does get confirmed.
    It is all specualtion, and Ive stayed away form it untill now, but it appears you are not allowed to try and quesiton or understand what all this mean, that merely conducted as "spin" by others who dont want to hear possible options.

    It must be said, if it is spin , its pretty poor spin, as I still came back to the GPU being very weak.

    Mind you, know one has even bothered question the DDr3 type, be it- 800 or 1600.

    Weve all just assumed its the slowest they could find.

  13. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    It is all specualtion, and Ive stayed away form it untill now, but it appears you are not allowed to try and quesiton or understand what all this mean, that merely conducted as "spin" by others who dont want to hear possible options.

    It must be said, if it is spin , its pretty poor spin, as I still came back to the GPU being very weak.

    Mind you, know one has even bothered question the DDr3 type, be it- 800 or 1600.

    Weve all just assumed its the slowest they could find.
    no they haven't. most discussion on gaf and other forums has assumed its going to be 2133 as far as i've seen.

    you've said you've stayed away from the rumours, so you may have missed it

    the comparison has been made looking at fast ddr3 or ddr4.
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  14. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by J3ff3 View Post
    no they haven't. most discussion on gaf and other forums has assumed its going to be 2133 as far as i've seen.

    you've said you've stayed away from the rumours, so you may have missed it

    the comparison has been made looking at fast ddr3 or ddr4.
    Well color me confused, 2133 would give you the same rumored 170gb/s transfer wouldn't it?

    I actually would think it would 1600, given the rumored frequency of the CPU core and the GPU

  15. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by J3ff3 View Post
    no they haven't. most discussion on gaf and other forums has assumed its going to be 2133 as far as i've seen.

    you've said you've stayed away from the rumours, so you may have missed it

    the comparison has been made looking at fast ddr3 or ddr4.
    I've not heard or read anywhere of this being the case. Further, DDR3 in the 2000Mhz+ range is not cheap.

    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...ords=DDR3+2133

    8GB of this stuff will cost some money. And what about the memory systems involved here?

    In all, if the Durango really does have this kind of fast DDR3 along with all of what we know now + Kinect 2.0 than this box will be markedly more expensive than Orbis or they will be selling at a significant loss.

    Thought just occurred to me. The talk of the actual RAM speed is immaterial if hard figures for bandwidth were actually given in the rumors. I honestly can't recall if they were, but if so than it doesn't matter. The bandwidth is the bandwidth.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 02-08-2013 at 05:45.


  16. #115
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    Yea but im sure MS will be getting RAM/Parts at a considerable discount from Bulk Buying

  17. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by John25 View Post
    Yea but im sure MS will be getting RAM/Parts at a considerable discount from Bulk Buying
    And they will be directly soldered to the boards instead of modules like in a PC.

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  19. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    I've not heard or read anywhere of this being the case. Further, DDR3 in the 2000Mhz+ range is not cheap.

    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...ords=DDR3+2133

    8GB of this stuff will cost some money. And what about the memory systems involved here?

    In all, if the Durango really does have this kind of fast DDR3 along with all of what we know now + Kinect 2.0 than this box will be markedly more expensive than Orbis or they will be selling at a significant loss.

    Thought just occurred to me. The talk of the actual RAM speed is immaterial if hard figures for bandwidth were actually given in the rumors. I honestly can't recall if they were, but if so than it doesn't matter. The bandwidth is the bandwidth.
    Fark knows, I don't even know where half these rumors actually get sourced from.
    My understanding is maybe dev kits?

  20. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    I've not heard or read anywhere of this being the case. Further, DDR3 in the 2000Mhz+ range is not cheap.

    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...ords=DDR3+2133

    8GB of this stuff will cost some money. And what about the memory systems involved here?

    In all, if the Durango really does have this kind of fast DDR3 along with all of what we know now + Kinect 2.0 than this box will be markedly more expensive than Orbis or they will be selling at a significant loss.

    Thought just occurred to me. The talk of the actual RAM speed is immaterial if hard figures for bandwidth were actually given in the rumors. I honestly can't recall if they were, but if so than it doesn't matter. The bandwidth is the bandwidth.
    perhaps it was me that wasn't paying attention then!



    **edit: no, i was

    http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.p...&postcount=919

    2133Mhz is the figure we have had all along for Durango, all along being since the VGleaks piece.
    apparently it matches with the bandwidth speeds we've been given assuming a 256bit bus
    Last edited by J3ff3; 02-08-2013 at 14:34.
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  21. #119
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    http://www.microsofttranslator.com/b...el-delorean%2F

    Haven't read it yet...just sharing.
    Its a good analysis on all the leaked stuff
    I wonder when a nuclear warhead goes off, does the frame rate of real life drop?

  22. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by J3ff3 View Post
    perhaps it was me that wasn't paying attention then! **edit: no, i was http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.p...&postcount=919 apparently it matches with the bandwidth speeds we've been given assuming a 256bit bus
    So the RAM in Durango is fast then?

  23. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by radgamer420 View Post
    So the RAM in Durango is fast then?
    Who knows?
    There are versions of ddr3 that hit 170gb/s

    My gut feel looking at the speeds of the gpu/cpu, that 1600 would make more sense, which is 120gb/s.
    Last edited by mynd; 02-08-2013 at 18:29.

  24. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Who knows?
    AAAAHHHH!!!!! I hate not knowing. lol

  25. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Who knows?

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  27. #124
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    ^Favourite movie of all time
    I wonder when a nuclear warhead goes off, does the frame rate of real life drop?

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  29. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Who knows?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc2muGlQIlk

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