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  1. #126
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    I still think the 720 will have dual gpu's. I can understand why xbox lite or the xbox set top box would have a low powered gpu at 60w, but for a console that's looking to last at least 10 years I can't see MS using a 60w gpu, there is still room there for other stuff. I think they will double up on the gpu's for the console 60w + 60w = 120w with probably a 300w power brick. At this point I can't rule out the 3 soc rumor.
    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?"
    --Kaz Hirai, CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment

  2. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by X2 View Post
    I still think the 720 will have dual gpu's. I can understand why xbox lite or the xbox set top box would have a low powered gpu at 60w, but for a console that's looking to last at least 10 years I can't see MS using a 60w gpu, there is still room there for other stuff. I think they will double up on the gpu's for the console 60w + 60w = 120w with probably a 300w power brick. At this point I can't rule out the 3 soc rumor.
    Anything could happen.
    The issue is, dev kits dont reflect the final form factor.

    If they did the 360 would have been an Apple G5 with ATI X800.

    That was how it stayed till three months before launch.

  3. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Anything could happen.
    The issue is, dev kits dont reflect the final form factor.

    If they did the 360 would have been an Apple G5 with ATI X800.

    That was how it stayed till three months before launch.
    I laughed trying to imagine that.


  4. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    I laughed trying to imagine that.
    It was a beast, lol.


  5. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Anything could happen.
    The issue is, dev kits dont reflect the final form factor.

    If they did the 360 would have been an Apple G5 with ATI X800.

    That was how it stayed till three months before launch.
    Man. I used to have an X850. Still remember the day I got it. Good times!

  6. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by J3ff3 View Post
    i don't need to predict anything. its there in black and white.
    Oh it sure is. Did I have beans on toast or curry? Tick tock tick tock.

    You like to paint yourself as a technical brain on here but you're just showing how petty you are at the moment. Little diddums takes exception to a comment and can't let it go. Grow up. Almost as petty as others in your cohort


    no, i agree with you. you are 100% correct, nobody needs you coming in to the thread and insinuating that we're all fanboys.

    so leave.
    Nobody needs MS fanboys on a PS site, so leave?

    Yeah ok that hasn't worked in the past 6-7 years so it's not gonna work now.

  7. #132
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    I doubt the end product will be as great as the disparity of the specs appear. I'm supremely confident that most games will look about the same on both consoles. MS won't put out a machine that will be blown away by Sony and Sony won't let their machine be vastly under-powered when compared MS'.

    Both MS and Sony have a pretty good grasp on what the other is doing and won't let each other be out done by the other. Don't fool yourself by thinking otherwise.

  8. #133
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    Cyn & J3ff3, drop it now or take it to PMs.
    Thanks to Kwes for the signature!

    "As long as there are dreamers who have the courage to pursue their dreams, the world will have heroes. And as long as there is a thirst to discover the unknown, there will be new stories to tell...and new adventures to be had."

  9. #134
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    Heres an interesting post from a tech guy i found.

    http://www.microsofttransla...

    "But this can be applied in PS Orbis? Basically to implement virtual memory management it is not necessary that there are two levels of memory, taking the top sufficient storage capacity for the image (color, depth, and stencil) buffers and textures needed for the scene and there is a lower level. For PS Orbis the caches of the GPU do not have enough storage capacity for this and the GDDR5 is a single level of memory for all of the GPU."

    Is the explanation of how the memory work in the durango..and how the DME's resolve the bandwith problems...and why is impossible to calculate the "real" perfomance ...in flops of the durango...

    Him also explain how the durango is amegatexturing/megamesh oriented platform

    we seen this technology by lionhead and john carmak used in a demo in late 2010 and in rage from ID5

    Megameshes

    http://youtu.be/M04SMNkTx9E

    MegaTextures

    Virtual Texture ( implementation of megatexture tech)
    http://youtu.be/p49vOX-_LyU

    the dme's not only solve a problem that dev have in this last decade....our gpu need to have enourmous bandwith to keep the gpu in process..but at the same time our best ram (gddr5 by now) suffer of a lots of latency (300 cycles vs 20/60 cycles of a slower esram) and also...cost a lots of $

    in this way u can have a big pool of slower ram and little faster pool of ram that work together with some dma inside the dme's that move everything ALSO while the gpu/cpu r working....

    The orbis is more like a middle lvl pc ..with offtheshelf parts....

    there r good and bad side in this....the goods .. being a console it dosnt work up a big OS and probably games and everything else is developed more on the "metal" while on pc they need to keep everything runnin on a heavy OS..and under the control of millions of API
    The bads..is not being a custom hardware ...suffer of all the problems that devs and tech guys already know.......high latency, hard if not impossible to reach maximum peak perfomance coz of stalls phases of the cpu/gpu, and of course the problem of have just 3. something of ram dedicated to games (one part is dedicated to the os,apps...security and stuff)

    on the other side we have durango with 8 giga of dd3 + esram

    that try to solve that kind of problems...

    IHMO think they will hit the same perfomance and in the long run the bigger pool of ram of the durango will hit the 1 place

    uuummmmm...Fried Beer iis a reality.

  10. #135
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    I just want both consoles to be released as high quality products no red ring of death and no blue light of death.
    "I think all those developers who are saying, "We dont want to do a PS3 game," or "Its really difficult to do it," should shut up and make their games. If you have time to complain about it, then you should be spending your time working on getting the most from the hardware."

  11. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sith View Post
    The bads..is not being a custom hardware ...suffer of all the problems that devs and tech guys already know.......high latency, hard if not impossible to reach maximum peak perfomance coz of stalls phases of the cpu/gpu, and of course the problem of have just 3. something of ram dedicated to games (one part is dedicated to the os,apps...security and stuff)
    Not really. You are way off there. According to DF, Orbis does have very much custom parts and as matter of fact solves alot of problem that MS solves just differently. Especially those stalls you speak of.

    DF actually mentions how Sony does it better. The DME aka "Special sauce" apparently does not benefit GPU. Mostly for something else.

    It just sounds like you fish out some non reliable source that praises Durango and assume worst of orbis. Read DF article
    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df...rango-vs-orbis
    Last edited by FableMaster; 02-10-2013 at 15:11.

  12. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by hood View Post
    I just want both consoles to be released as high quality products no red ring of death and no blue light of death.
    Dont you mean yellow light of death?

  13. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sith View Post
    Heres an interesting post from a tech guy i found.

    http://www.microsofttransla...

    "But this can be applied in PS Orbis? Basically to implement virtual memory management it is not necessary that there are two levels of memory, taking the top sufficient storage capacity for the image (color, depth, and stencil) buffers and textures needed for the scene and there is a lower level. For PS Orbis the caches of the GPU do not have enough storage capacity for this and the GDDR5 is a single level of memory for all of the GPU."

    Is the explanation of how the memory work in the durango..and how the DME's resolve the bandwith problems...and why is impossible to calculate the "real" perfomance ...in flops of the durango...

    Him also explain how the durango is amegatexturing/megamesh oriented platform

    we seen this technology by lionhead and john carmak used in a demo in late 2010 and in rage from ID5

    Megameshes

    http://youtu.be/M04SMNkTx9E

    MegaTextures

    Virtual Texture ( implementation of megatexture tech)
    http://youtu.be/p49vOX-_LyU

    the dme's not only solve a problem that dev have in this last decade....our gpu need to have enourmous bandwith to keep the gpu in process..but at the same time our best ram (gddr5 by now) suffer of a lots of latency (300 cycles vs 20/60 cycles of a slower esram) and also...cost a lots of $

    in this way u can have a big pool of slower ram and little faster pool of ram that work together with some dma inside the dme's that move everything ALSO while the gpu/cpu r working....

    The orbis is more like a middle lvl pc ..with offtheshelf parts....

    there r good and bad side in this....the goods .. being a console it dosnt work up a big OS and probably games and everything else is developed more on the "metal" while on pc they need to keep everything runnin on a heavy OS..and under the control of millions of API
    The bads..is not being a custom hardware ...suffer of all the problems that devs and tech guys already know.......high latency, hard if not impossible to reach maximum peak perfomance coz of stalls phases of the cpu/gpu, and of course the problem of have just 3. something of ram dedicated to games (one part is dedicated to the os,apps...security and stuff)

    on the other side we have durango with 8 giga of dd3 + esram

    that try to solve that kind of problems...

    IHMO think they will hit the same perfomance and in the long run the bigger pool of ram of the durango will hit the 1 place
    Yeah, been reading a lot about that, even in our discussions on gaf. The Xbox 3 is looking promising.

  14. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sith View Post
    Heres an interesting post from a tech guy i found.

    http://www.microsofttransla...

    "But this can be applied in PS Orbis? Basically to implement virtual memory management it is not necessary that there are two levels of memory, taking the top sufficient storage capacity for the image (color, depth, and stencil) buffers and textures needed for the scene and there is a lower level. For PS Orbis the caches of the GPU do not have enough storage capacity for this and the GDDR5 is a single level of memory for all of the GPU."

    Is the explanation of how the memory work in the durango..and how the DME's resolve the bandwith problems...and why is impossible to calculate the "real" perfomance ...in flops of the durango...

    Him also explain how the durango is amegatexturing/megamesh oriented platform

    we seen this technology by lionhead and john carmak used in a demo in late 2010 and in rage from ID5

    Megameshes

    http://youtu.be/M04SMNkTx9E

    MegaTextures

    Virtual Texture ( implementation of megatexture tech)
    http://youtu.be/p49vOX-_LyU

    the dme's not only solve a problem that dev have in this last decade....our gpu need to have enourmous bandwith to keep the gpu in process..but at the same time our best ram (gddr5 by now) suffer of a lots of latency (300 cycles vs 20/60 cycles of a slower esram) and also...cost a lots of $

    in this way u can have a big pool of slower ram and little faster pool of ram that work together with some dma inside the dme's that move everything ALSO while the gpu/cpu r working....

    The orbis is more like a middle lvl pc ..with offtheshelf parts....

    there r good and bad side in this....the goods .. being a console it dosnt work up a big OS and probably games and everything else is developed more on the "metal" while on pc they need to keep everything runnin on a heavy OS..and under the control of millions of API
    The bads..is not being a custom hardware ...suffer of all the problems that devs and tech guys already know.......high latency, hard if not impossible to reach maximum peak perfomance coz of stalls phases of the cpu/gpu, and of course the problem of have just 3. something of ram dedicated to games (one part is dedicated to the os,apps...security and stuff)

    on the other side we have durango with 8 giga of dd3 + esram

    that try to solve that kind of problems...

    IHMO think they will hit the same perfomance and in the long run the bigger pool of ram of the durango will hit the 1 place
    I posted this read and got laugh at!
    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?"
    --Kaz Hirai, CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment

  15. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Man Gamer View Post
    I doubt the end product will be as great as the disparity of the specs appear. I'm supremely confident that most games will look about the same on both consoles. MS won't put out a machine that will be blown away by Sony and Sony won't let their machine be vastly under-powered when compared MS'.

    I believe you are correct.

    In the end it's all about money, and you're not going to get massive disparity in performance when manufacturing costs are very similar. Even with significant differences in manufacturing costs (360 vs PS3 for instance) the actual difference is capabilities is minor.


    I think once both systems release most people will find that 'in a blind taste test' they couldn't tell the difference between the two consoles from watching the same game running on both. Hide the console, focus just on what is on the screen, and it will be near impossible to tell the difference between the two.

  16. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    Hide the console, focus just on what is on the screen, and it will be near impossible to tell the difference between the two.
    apart from the poor pad on the Sony console that is..

  17. #142
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    New stuff on durango (not really 'new')
    I wonder when a nuclear warhead goes off, does the frame rate of real life drop?

  18. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    New stuff on durango (not really 'new')
    If thats true (mainly the Kinect related part) that will be a definite no buy for me.

  19. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    I believe you are correct.

    In the end it's all about money, and you're not going to get massive disparity in performance when manufacturing costs are very similar. Even with significant differences in manufacturing costs (360 vs PS3 for instance) the actual difference is capabilities is minor.


    I think once both systems release most people will find that 'in a blind taste test' they couldn't tell the difference between the two consoles from watching the same game running on both. Hide the console, focus just on what is on the screen, and it will be near impossible to tell the difference between the two.
    You mean like the PS3 and 360?

    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    New stuff on durango (not really 'new')
    Great news if true! Running multiple games at once! NICE!

  20. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    You mean like the PS3 and 360?



    Great news if true! Running multiple games at once! NICE!
    yes and yes

    But... the definitive games will obviously comes from first parties. Those will show the differences of the consoles
    I wonder when a nuclear warhead goes off, does the frame rate of real life drop?

  21. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    yes and yes

    But... the definitive games will obviously comes from first parties. Those will show the differences of the consoles
    I have found that many of the third party games on the current gen consoles look better than the first party games. I don't lend much credence to the whole first party mantra.

  22. #147
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    If the rumors are true then the 720 is certainly at a graphical disadvantage. Many of these tricks that the 720 will have to perform is simply not needed with the ps4. And the ps4 is rumored to be easier to develop for and more pc-like than the 720. These engines are scalable so the extra power can be used if these devs don't purposely lower the ps4 quality.

    If they choose to let the ps4 shine then things will simply be an undeniable fact and no longer an "opinion".
    Last edited by Two4DaMoney; 02-11-2013 at 22:08.

  23. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yungstar 2006 View Post
    apart from the poor pad on the Sony console that is..
    And the pad designed for Jeremy beadle on MS's console, yeah might be the only difference.
    Opinions are like arseholes, everybody has got one

    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    I have found that many of the third party games on the current gen consoles look better than the first party games. I don't lend much credence to the whole first party mantra.
    Don't you find it odd that PlayStation gamers and....well, everyone else (reviewers, pixel counters, tech experts etc), except 360 folk think differently?
    But like I said above, opinions

    Sent via Codec
    Last edited by TGO; 02-11-2013 at 22:06.

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  24. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two4DaMoney View Post
    If the rumors are true then the 720 is certainly at a graphical disadvantage. Many of these tricks that the 720 will have to perform is simply not needed with the ps4. And the ps4 is rumored to be easier to develop for and more pc-like than the 720. These engines are scalable so the extra power can be used if these devs don't purposely lower the ps4 quality. If they choose to let the ps4 shine then things will simply be an undeniable fact and no longer an "opinion".
    Yep it seems like these tricks and "special sauce" for 720 are nothing more than just workarounds designed to compensate for the slower RAM and weaker hardware. Those workarounds might help 720 get by at the beginning of the gen but as time goes on and engines become more demanding those workarounds will hit a wall and PS4 will distance itself graphically even in 3rd party games.
    Last edited by mistercrow; 02-11-2013 at 22:42.

  25. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    I have found that many of the third party games on the current gen consoles look better than the first party games. I don't lend much credence to the whole first party mantra.
    Riiiight :sly:

    Sent from my Note II

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