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    More info on PlayStation 4's "Jaguar" CPU

    AMD "Jaguar" Micro-architecture Takes the Fight to Atom with AVX, SSE4, Quad-Core

    AMD hedged its low-power CPU bets on the "Bobcat" micro-architecture for the past two years now. Intel's Atom line of low-power chips caught up in power-efficiency, CPU performance, to an extant iGPU performance, and recent models even feature out-of-order execution. AMD unveiled its next-generation "Jaguar" low-power CPU micro-architecture for APUs in the 5W - 25W TDP range, targeting everything from tablets to entry-level notebooks, and nettops.

    At its presentation at the 60th ISSC 2013 conference, AMD detailed "Jaguar," revealing a few killer features that could restore the company's competitiveness in the low-power CPU segment. To begin with, APUs with CPU cores based on this micro-architecture will be built on TSMC's 28-nanometer HKMG process. Jaguar allows for up to four x86-64 cores. The four cores, unlike Bulldozer modules, are completely independent, and only share a 2 MB L2 cache.

    "Jaguar" x86-64 cores feature a 40-bit wide physical address (Bobcat features 36-bit), 16-byte/cycle load/store bandwidth, which is double that of Bobcat, a 128-bit wide FPU data-path, which again is double that of Bobcat, and about 50 percent bigger scheduler queues. The instruction set is where AMD is looking to rattle Atom. Not only does Jaguar feature out-of-order execution, but also ISA instruction sets found on mainstream CPUs, such as AVX (advanced vector extensions), SIMD instruction sets such as SSSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, and SSE4A, all of which are quite widely adopted by modern media applications. Also added is AES-NI, which accelerates AES data encryption. In the efficiency department, AMD claims to have improved its power-gating technology that completely cuts power to inactive cores, to conserve battery life.
    Source: http://www.techpowerup.com/180394/AM...Quad-Core.html

    I'm not going to lie, I don't know what half of that crap means... but I do get a generalized sense of smallness and efficient power consumption. Also, seeing what they've done with PS3 Slim... I don't think the PS4 will be the giant, George Foreman grill we saw with the launch version of the PS3.


    Found this as well:

    AMD's CTO Mark Papermaster just put up this slide that shows its HSA (Heterogeneous Systems Architecture) roadmap through 2014. This year we got Graphics Core Next, but next year we'll see a unified address space that both AMD CPUs and GPUs can access (today CPUs and GPUs mostly store separate copies of data in separate memory spaces). In 2014 AMD plans to deliver HSA compatible GPUs that allow for true heterogeneous computing where workloads will run, seamlessly, on both CPUs and GPUs in parallel. The latter is something we've been waiting on for years now but AMD seems committed to delivering it in a major way in just two years.

    Source: http://www.anandtech.com/show/5493/a...a-gpus-in-2014

    Wee!



    Yes, I am very bored right now.



    UPDATE:

    AMD's Vice President of Global Communications and Industry Marketing John Taylor recently "elaborated" on the APU that is packed in Sony's semi-announced PlayStation 4 console. He said the new gaming console is the first announced design win based on a semi-custom AMD APU which was jointly developed in coordination with Sony.

    "At the most basic level, an APU is a single chip that combines general-purpose x86 central processing unit (CPU) cores with a graphics processing unit (GPU) and a variety of system elements, including memory controllers, specialized video decoders, display outputs, etc.," he said. "Our semi-custom solutions take the same treasure trove of graphics; compute and multi-media IP found in our APUs, and customize them for customers who have a very specific high-volume product that could benefit from AMD’s leading-edge technologies."

    But for the PlayStation 4, AMD leveraged the building blocks of its 2013 product "roadmap" for PCs and created a solution that incorporates the upcoming "Jaguar" CPU cores with next-generation Radeon graphics, thus delivering nearly 2 TFLOPS of compute performance. This will allow developers to "fundamentally" change the console gaming experience by letting them harness the power of parallel processing.

    As stated on Wednesday, the APU will consist of eight x64 AMD "Jaguar" cores and a next-generation Radeon GPU comprised of 18 "compute units" capable of cranking out 1.84 teraflops. This chip will be backed by 8 GB of unified GDDR5 RAM (17 GB/sec of bandwidth), a built-in HDD, USB 3.0, a Blu-ray optical drive, Gigabit Ethernet, Wireless N and more. Note that a Radeon HD 7970 is rated at 3.5 teraflops.

    AMD's "Jaguar" is the successor to "Bobcat" which powers current C- and E-Series low-power APUs. The company is expected to launch its first batch of Jaguar-based APUs during the middle of 2013, codenamed as Kabini and Temash. These 28-nm chips will have power envelopes of 15W or less, and up to four cores.

    In addition to the PlayStation 4 explanation, Taylor hinted at big news on the horizon for gamers with AMD hardware. Could the company possibly be retaliating against Nvidia's Project Shield? We'll find out next month when AMD reveals its big surprise at the Game Developers Conference.

    "This is going to be a very exciting year for gamers, especially for those with AMD hardware in their PCs and consoles, as we have even more game-changing (pun intended) announcements still to come," he said. "Look for some more exciting things happening at the Game Developers Conference (GDC) in March when we will provide even more info on how we are working with game developers to make AMD the hardware of choice for running the best games!"

    Alright, you have our attention. Blow our minds next month, please. Meanwhile, we'll salivate over the new PlayStation 4 game screens… maybe.
    Source: http://tomshardware.com/news/APU-Jag...ash,21229.html
    Last edited by Brandon; 02-22-2013 at 07:05.
    "The biggest adversary in our life is ourselves. We are what we are, in a sense, because of the dominating thoughts we allow to gather in our head. All concepts of self-improvement, all actions and paths we take, relate solely to our abstract image of ourselves. Life is limited only by how we really see ourselves and feel about our being. A great deal of pure self-knowledge and inner understanding allows us to lay an all-important foundation for the structure of our life from which we can perceive and take the right avenues.”

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    Power efficient? Yes

    Cost effective? Yes

    Somewhat underwhelming? Yes

    But the fact is they had to gimp something to make it reasonably priced. Probably better the CPU than either the GPU or RAM. I just hope we don't miss out too much on large scale games this gen...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyn View Post
    Power efficient? Yes

    Cost effective? Yes

    Somewhat underwhelming? Yes

    But the fact is they had to gimp something to make it reasonably priced. Probably better the CPU than either the GPU or RAM. I just hope we don't miss out too much on large scale games this gen...
    I agree. The CPU is still 8 cores, though... and because of this... PC gamers will probably benefit as well since many games are not utilizing anywhere near that many. Because the PS4 is using x86 architecture and console devs try and eek out every bit of juice out of the system, PC gamers might be seeing more games that utilize 8 cores. It's a win win.
    "The biggest adversary in our life is ourselves. We are what we are, in a sense, because of the dominating thoughts we allow to gather in our head. All concepts of self-improvement, all actions and paths we take, relate solely to our abstract image of ourselves. Life is limited only by how we really see ourselves and feel about our being. A great deal of pure self-knowledge and inner understanding allows us to lay an all-important foundation for the structure of our life from which we can perceive and take the right avenues.”

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    Isn't the 8-Core processor actually a quad core with four physical and four virtual?

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    There had to be a bottleneck somewhere. Although from what I'm hearing the CPU isn't as underpowered as everyone is making it out to be. I really don't know much because I know all those stats that are listed don't make much sense at all to me. I know basic.




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    No unified address space. I'd say that's a bottleneck, but since the load isn't being shared on 4GBs but 8, I'd say that developers should be able to code pretty confidently within their allotted resource budgets. Now it is MUCH clearer why Sony is running with more RAM.

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    Im not too clued up about the CPU either but from what I read on websites is it is AMD's version of a Laptop CPU entry but while it might sound low end in the PC world it will be more valuable/powerful in the PS4 as game devs will only have to work with that CPU config unlike a PC game dev who has to consider the multitude of different setups

    Just my 2cents of course.

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    Actually Unified RAM is a GOOD thing, not a bad thing. When the CPU and GPU share RAM it speeds up the processing of data and graphics. It's the next gen in RAM. This means we'll see less pop in textures and have smoother gameplay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John25 View Post
    Im not too clued up about the CPU either but from what I read on websites is it is AMD's version of a Laptop CPU entry but while it might sound low end in the PC world it will be more valuable/powerful in the PS4 as game devs will only have to work with that CPU config unlike a PC game dev who has to consider the multitude of different setups

    Just my 2cents of course.
    That's actually a very reasonable assessment. Also, since the GPU has dedicated compute units, that's going to ease up a lot of heavy lifting that would normally consume CPU cycles.. Kind of alleviates a lot of gripes about "wimpy laptop CPU" that some people might be thinking.

    After reading this article, I can see why Carmack said what he did about the system. Sony put together a hell of a console here.

    Quote Originally Posted by shepard View Post
    Actually Unified RAM is a GOOD thing, not a bad thing. When the CPU and GPU share RAM it speeds up the processing of data and graphics. It's the next gen in RAM. This means we'll see less pop in textures and have smoother gameplay.
    Coupled with a 6x BDR drive and you have a very adequate machine for streaming engines.
    Last edited by Lefein; 02-22-2013 at 04:38.

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    what's you are seeing there is a jaguar that is not customize for console. I expect the CPU to be a little bit bigger that way it will work a lot better with the GPU. I just don't see the speed of that CPU at a 1.6 GHz.
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    Just found this, guys:

    AMD's Vice President of Global Communications and Industry Marketing John Taylor recently "elaborated" on the APU that is packed in Sony's semi-announced PlayStation 4 console. He said the new gaming console is the first announced design win based on a semi-custom AMD APU which was jointly developed in coordination with Sony.

    "At the most basic level, an APU is a single chip that combines general-purpose x86 central processing unit (CPU) cores with a graphics processing unit (GPU) and a variety of system elements, including memory controllers, specialized video decoders, display outputs, etc.," he said. "Our semi-custom solutions take the same treasure trove of graphics; compute and multi-media IP found in our APUs, and customize them for customers who have a very specific high-volume product that could benefit from AMD’s leading-edge technologies."

    But for the PlayStation 4, AMD leveraged the building blocks of its 2013 product "roadmap" for PCs and created a solution that incorporates the upcoming "Jaguar" CPU cores with next-generation Radeon graphics, thus delivering nearly 2 TFLOPS of compute performance. This will allow developers to "fundamentally" change the console gaming experience by letting them harness the power of parallel processing.

    As stated on Wednesday, the APU will consist of eight x64 AMD "Jaguar" cores and a next-generation Radeon GPU comprised of 18 "compute units" capable of cranking out 1.84 teraflops. This chip will be backed by 8 GB of unified GDDR5 RAM (17 GB/sec of bandwidth), a built-in HDD, USB 3.0, a Blu-ray optical drive, Gigabit Ethernet, Wireless N and more. Note that a Radeon HD 7970 is rated at 3.5 teraflops.

    AMD's "Jaguar" is the successor to "Bobcat" which powers current C- and E-Series low-power APUs. The company is expected to launch its first batch of Jaguar-based APUs during the middle of 2013, codenamed as Kabini and Temash. These 28-nm chips will have power envelopes of 15W or less, and up to four cores.

    In addition to the PlayStation 4 explanation, Taylor hinted at big news on the horizon for gamers with AMD hardware. Could the company possibly be retaliating against Nvidia's Project Shield? We'll find out next month when AMD reveals its big surprise at the Game Developers Conference.

    "This is going to be a very exciting year for gamers, especially for those with AMD hardware in their PCs and consoles, as we have even more game-changing (pun intended) announcements still to come," he said. "Look for some more exciting things happening at the Game Developers Conference (GDC) in March when we will provide even more info on how we are working with game developers to make AMD the hardware of choice for running the best games!"

    Alright, you have our attention. Blow our minds next month, please. Meanwhile, we'll salivate over the new PlayStation 4 game screens… maybe.
    Source: http://tomshardware.com/news/APU-Jag...ash,21229.html


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    The cpu is fine the audio will have its own chip so it wont take power from the cpu.and the gpu dont take power from it either

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    Quote Originally Posted by coolguy View Post
    The cpu is fine the audio will have its own chip so it wont take power from the cpu.and the gpu dont take power from it either
    Actually, the CPU and GPU are on the same die-space if I remember correctly. Of note, it should still be a smaller die-area than the original CELL in the "fatty" PS3.

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    MY only concern over the system is its ventilation. With a system that is intended to always be on for downloading updates, predicted game choices and suspend game plays....this thing better be able to keep cool and not burn out all these joined chipsets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shepard View Post
    MY only concern over the system is its ventilation. With a system that is intended to always be on for downloading updates, predicted game choices and suspend game plays....this thing better be able to keep cool and not burn out all these joined chipsets.
    This.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shepard View Post
    MY only concern over the system is its ventilation. With a system that is intended to always be on for downloading updates, predicted game choices and suspend game plays....this thing better be able to keep cool and not burn out all these joined chipsets.
    The Jaguar CPU is going to be very power efficient, so I don't think overheating problems will be an issue when performing mundane tasks like downloading updates and predicting your game choices. On top of that... the console... as stated at the conference... doesn't even need to be on to get updates. There's an entirely separate chip dedicated to uploading and downloading. I don't think there's much to worry about, honestly.
    "The biggest adversary in our life is ourselves. We are what we are, in a sense, because of the dominating thoughts we allow to gather in our head. All concepts of self-improvement, all actions and paths we take, relate solely to our abstract image of ourselves. Life is limited only by how we really see ourselves and feel about our being. A great deal of pure self-knowledge and inner understanding allows us to lay an all-important foundation for the structure of our life from which we can perceive and take the right avenues.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by shepard View Post
    MY only concern over the system is its ventilation. With a system that is intended to always be on for downloading updates, predicted game choices and suspend game plays....this thing better be able to keep cool and not burn out all these joined chipsets.
    I'm worried it'll sound like my hovercraft
    AMDs chips do tend to run hot (desktop chips) Despite this being custom and still supposedly smaller than the original Cell I don't believe that'll be an issue. Besides the few expected faulty units of the production line I think it'll be handled.

    Edit: In reply to the above post (while I was typing lol) we still don't have and specifics on that secondary chip do we More than likely it's a variation of the main chip though to run in unison and behind the scenes.
    Last edited by D3seeker; 02-22-2013 at 07:17.


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    Isn't the 8-Core processor actually a quad core with four physical and four virtual?


    There is no core multi threading, it is actually 8 cores, this is good thing for overall performance.

    There had to be a bottleneck somewhere. Although from what I'm hearing the CPU isn't as underpowered as everyone is making it out to be. I really don't know much because I know all those stats that are listed don't make much sense at all to me. I know basic.


    Its like the Wii U CPU, it's looks very dull on paper but in execution is much more capable that it would initially appear to be. Not actively comparing it to the Wii U, it is much more power than that (duh!)

    That's actually a very reasonable assessment. Also, since the GPU has dedicated compute units, that's going to ease up a lot of heavy lifting that would normally consume CPU cycles.. Kind of alleviates a lot of gripes about "wimpy laptop CPU" that some people might be thinking.


    The GPU doesn't have dedicated compute units like the rumours suggested, any of the GPU compute units can be used for graphics OR general purpose code. This is a big improvement over the rumours.


    MY only concern over the system is its ventilation. With a system that is intended to always be on for downloading updates, predicted game choices and suspend game plays....this thing better be able to keep cool and not burn out all these joined chipsets.


    Edit: In reply to the above post (while I was typing lol) we still don't have and specifics on that secondary chip do we More than likely it's a variation of the main chip though to run in unison and behind the scenes.


    There is a custom designed ARM chip designed to handle the always on functions, ventilation for these functions in a non issue. As for the general ventilation goes if it's anything like the Ps3 it will be perfectly fine. Cell and RSX where heat monsters on launch and yet Sony figure out how to keep the whole thing running whisper quiet.

    Ps3 used an ARM4 chip for basic functionality (the PSN+ automatic updates is a good example) so we already know that Sony can built these kind of functionality into the system without issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefein View Post
    That's actually a very reasonable assessment. Also, since the GPU has dedicated compute units, that's going to ease up a lot of heavy lifting that would normally consume CPU cycles.. Kind of alleviates a lot of gripes about "wimpy laptop CPU" that some people might be thinking.

    After reading this article, I can see why Carmack said what he did about the system. Sony put together a hell of a console here.



    Coupled with a 6x BDR drive and you have a very adequate machine for streaming engines.

    I'm much more impressed by this system than I was by the PS3 when it was announced. The guts of the PS3 just seemed like a mess, this, on the other hand, seems much more sensible and elegant.

    Probably what I'm most excited about is that the PS4 compliments the current game development ecosystem well by using components identical to or very close to off the shelf PC parts. I suspect us PC gamers are going to enjoy the fruits of unifying the development process a bit more (all indications are that the successor to the 360 will follow this direction).
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    Quote Originally Posted by shepard View Post
    MY only concern over the system is its ventilation. With a system that is intended to always be on for downloading updates, predicted game choices and suspend game plays....this thing better be able to keep cool and not burn out all these joined chipsets.
    I thought there was suppose to be a specialized processor inside the PS4 to handle the downloading or updates, games, etc. while the system is off? Am I wrong?


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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyClaw View Post
    I thought there was suppose to be a specialized processor inside the PS4 to handle the downloading or updates, games, etc. while the system is off? Am I wrong?
    No. your correct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyClaw View Post
    I thought there was suppose to be a specialized processor inside the PS4 to handle the downloading or updates, games, etc. while the system is off? Am I wrong?
    Yes I believe there is. But until we've witnessed just how much power it takes and whether or not we get a HDD or an SSD there is potential for heat that we can't yet confirm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shepard View Post
    Yes I believe there is. But until we've witnessed just how much power it takes and whether or not we get a HDD or an SSD there is potential for heat that we can't yet confirm.
    True, I guess the best thing to do then is to take the 'wait and see' approach! June 11th can't get here quick enough!


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