Carmack: Sony made wise engineering decisions for PS4

[Shibby]

The reason it would revolution PC desktop is know one as of right now needs to buy an intel or a Nvidia. AMD right now has all the answers for a PC build. So I might as well buy an APU and try to find a motherboard that supports GDDR5 and that way the APU's GPU can use whatever it wants. So I could stick 16GB of GDDR5 in my computer while an APU can take 8GB of GDDR5 for it's GPU. That is exaclty what I'm reading and yes that would revolutionize how PC's are being built.

What in the hell are you saying?! They can do these things with a PS4 because it is a CLOSED SYSTEM. Developers for PS4 are given control of these things because every single PS4 has exactly the same hardware. This cannot be done on a PC because every PC is different. So yes, it may be revolutionary in terms of PC, but not on console.

[baho]

I've been understanding what you are saying but the reasoning you just gave is just silly. So, people wouldn't want a more capable CPU+GPU which would be much much cheaper but more powerful because they like to upgrade.

NO GOD DAMN IT! The God damn amount of RAM does NOT give a GPU more power. The amount of SHADERS does! The amount of COMPUTE units does! The amount of CUDA cores does! The frequencies at which these shaders work! The PS4 has 18 Compute Units, so pretty much somewhere between a 7850 and a 7870. You can add one trillion gigabytes of gddr100 ram onto it, it would STILL be at the same performance as a 7850/7870!

Seriously, are you trolling us? (Careful there, calling anyone a troll will earn you an infraction....) - Lethal

[Cyn]

PS. whatever RAM is used in that GPU is going to stay in that GPU. The GPU isn't going to fluctuate between 2GB GDDR5 to 3GB of GDDR5. The GDDR RAM in the PS4 can be split any way between other things, games, cpu end, but not the GPU like you were stating. The GPU I believe has it's own thing even though it's an APU. Otherwise, like I said this will revolutionize PC gaming as a whole and there is really no point in buying a separate GPU, you might as well just buy APU's.

Not to be rude but I don't think you quite know what you are talking about here.

There isn't RAM being used within the GPU. That isn't how it works. Not with PS4 and not on PC's either. PC's have video cards which house both the GPU and the GDDR5 RAM.

The GPU in the PS4 does not have "it's own thing". It's going to be using the 8GB of unified RAM. In fact it will be by far the biggest user of that RAM, as the PS4 is clearly a GPU driven system.

Your last sentence is just misguided, this can work because the PS4 is a closed system, a console environment. The same way as the 360 last gen. The parts are by and large PC parts yes, but it's still a console.

[Coconut_Crunch]

bah, fuck it.

Also, I stated in other threads that I don't understand this stuff but I have been reading about it. I do game on the PC a lot, I know of the technology of a PC and I'm a bit more familiar with it. but when it comes to consoles I just have no clue. i mean, to be honest Killzone should be able to run in 1080P @ 60FPS in this case.

actually, it should be able to run at 1920 x 1200 60fps since this APU is obviously a beast

[Lethal_NFS]

Lets not get carried away here guys. Be sure you use facts and sources if you need to prove your point.

[MonkeyClaw]

and that's what I don't understand, how is that freakin possible.

Because that is how Sony designed it! Xbox360 used memory the same way, that is why it was so flexible because the developers could choose my much RAM to use a where. A lot of laptops use the same concept, except their RAM allocations are locked to a certain amount of RAM, thus my Netbook will always take 256MB of the system RAM for itself (leaving the CPU to only 3.75GB), it can't be adjusted, but with the consoles, they allow the developer to adjust the amounts making it more flexible.

[Coconut_Crunch]

Lets not get carried away here guys. Be sure you use facts and sources if you need to prove your point.

I have been trying to but I've been getting spanked left and right

[Bligmerk]

The Nvidia GTX Titan has 6GB of GDDR5, consisting of twenty four 2gb GDDR5 chips. That is 12 on each side as can be seen in this photo:

If the GPU in the photo can be visualized as the Jaguar APU, that is going to mean the PS4 will have to have 8 more memory chips. That is a lot of real estate. Even if 8GB of slower clock GDDR5 costs around $200, then that leaves the cost of the APU, the MMU, the hard drive, the faster (more capacity?) blu-ray, a stereo camera peripheral, new controller, included headset for under $499? Even if it is a slower clocked GDDR5, Sony needs to have a supplier of 64-bit GDDR5, possibly 4gb to reduce the chip count to 16.

[MonkeyClaw]

I have been trying to but I've been getting spanked left and right

Don't worry, you will be sitting there one day and have an 'oh shit' moment and everything will make sense! Consoles are a little confusing when you first get into the details on them, I am still learning myself, but after reading everything over the years the whole Unified Memory thing makes sense to me now! I don't think anyone is accusing you of being a Xbox fanboy, they are just trying to help you understand how it all works!

[Shibby]

NO GOD DAMN IT! The God damn amount of RAM does NOT give a GPU more power. The amount of SHADERS does! The amount of COMPUTE units does! The amount of CUDA cores does! The frequencies at which these shaders work! The PS4 has 18 Compute Units, so pretty much somewhere between a 7850 and a 7870. You can add one trillion gigabytes of gddr100 ram onto it, it would STILL be at the same performance as a 7850/7870!

Seriously, are you trolling us? (Careful there, calling anyone a troll will earn you an infraction....) - Lethal

The simplest way I can try to say this is through a metaphor. If you put a Honda Civic engine into a Lamborghini body, it's not gonna go 200MPH. At the end of the day it's still a Civic.

[MonkeyClaw]

The Nvidia GTX Titan has 6GB of GDDR5, consisting of twenty four 2gb GDDR5 chips. That is 12 on each side as can be seen in this photo:

If the GPU in the photo can be visualized as the Jaguar APU, that is going to mean the PS4 will have to have 8 more memory chips. That is a lot of real estate. Even if 8GB of slower clock GDDR5 costs around $200, then that leaves the cost of the APU, the MMU, the hard drive, the faster (more capacity?) blu-ray, a stereo camera peripheral, new controller, included headset for under $499? Even if it is a slower clocked GDDR5, Sony needs to have a supplier of 64-bit GDDR5, possibly 4gb to reduce the chip count to 16.

Maybe it has 3D memory stacking?

[mickice]

With the PS4 being like a fixed high end PC with all the features precoded Carmack is probably wetting himself right now.

Windows 8 is such a mess, I think even PC gamers might convert to the PS4.

[Shibby]

Windows 8 is such a mess, I think even PC gamers might convert to the PS4.

Or just stick with Windows 7 lol. Like they stuck with XP instead of switching to Vista.

[MonkeyClaw]

From slide #10, talked about 2.5D stacking.

http://www.i-micronews.com/upload/Ra...ample_2012.pdf

[baho]

I have been trying to but I've been getting spanked left and right

I believe this is mostly directed at me, sorry for being an ass. Hopefully you at least made an idea of why it is as it is.

[MATRIX 2]

With the PS4 being like a fixed high end PC with all the features precoded Carmack is probably wetting himself right now.

Windows 8 is such a mess, I think even PC gamers might convert to the PS4.

You know you are delusional when you think PC gamers will switch to consoles.

[mickice]

You know you are delusional when you think PC gamers will switch to consoles.

Why not? Play games while they download, stream gameplay, cross game chat. Everything a PC gamer loves in one.

[PeanutButterMunky]

You know you are delusional when you think PC gamers will switch to consoles.

Why are you here?

[MATRIX 2]

Why not? Play games while they download, stream gameplay, cross game chat. Everything a PC gamer loves in one.

2 reasons:

#1 They are graphics whores.

#2 They much prefer KBM to a controller.

Why are you here?

Why is anyone here?

[PeanutButterMunky]

Why is anyone here?

That is deep. :P

[MonkeyClaw]

2 reasons:

#1 They are graphics whores.

#2 They much prefer KBM to a controller.




Why is anyone here?

I use to do heavy PC gaming before the PS3 and that was probably the hardest adjustment for me on FPS games, going from KBM to a controller! Now I am almost as good with a controller as I was with a KBM!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

[Tetsu]

PC gamers haven't switched over in the past because they consider consoles to be kiddy toys they can't tweak, and their games so much more mature. Oh well on them.

One more log to throw on this cost argument. Graphics cards aren't sold at a loss. And as MonkeyClaw said, graphic card makers can charge whatever they want. They make a profit on the weaker cards, then swim in the cash on the higher end models which, aside from commodity ram pricing, cost slightly more to make with perhaps marginal performance increase in real game terms. One guy who had a half blind girlfriend needed a superfast card because her one good eye had improved its sensitivity so much, she saw flicker below 120hz. But most guys spend $100 more on a card which renders at 150hz at max settings purely for bragging rights.

One more thing: why is r ake a bad word? Me baffled...

[RedDragon7]

#2 They much prefer KBM to a controller.

Boom! Case in point.

Also, modding and/or screwing with code.

[Ghost-Rhayne]

Why are you here?

It's called Tall Poppy Syndrome mon ami.

[scotty79]

Isnt it time for an original doom remake?