Carmack: Sony made wise engineering decisions for PS4

[jlippone]

That's fuckin insane.

Yes, it certainly is nice.

Even PS2's 48 to 512 is close to 11 times.

Ps2 had 32MB of main memory, so the jump was 16x.
If you add the 4MB of EDRAM, you would have ~14x jump. (this is not a good way to calculate as all polygons and textures had to be stored in main ram before they could be used.)

Thing is that the pools were split and OS took large part of the 256MB of main ram. (now OS is down to 64MB.) (Apparently I checked way too old source.. , yes it's most likely smaller now, point still remains)
So actual game world still must fit to under ~200MB. (all physics, AI, animation, game world, code.. etc.)

[Sufi]

Yes, it certainly is nice.

Ps2 had 32MB of main memory, so the jump was 16x.
If you add the 4MB of EDRAM, you would have ~14x jump. (this is not a good way to calculate as all polygons and textures had to be stored in main ram before they could be used.)

Thing is that the pools were split and OS took large part of the 256MB of main ram. (now OS is down to 64MB.)
So actual game world still must fit to under 200MB. (all physics, AI, animation, game world, code.. etc.)

Hmm...for some reason I thought it had 48...but still, Xbox was there too so technically the jump can be seen with the highest specs.

I thought the PS3's OS was around 30MBs now...and the 256MB can't be right because you're speaking about the OS that we use when there's nothing else on...which still reserves 256MB no matter what, they will probably never reduce this (but make it more efficient) as we don't need much RAM to run programs other than games. Unless of course you were running an app.

The in-game stripped down OS has never been 256MB or there wouldn't be any left for games...I think the highest it's been is around 90MB or maybe a little more but now it's about 30 or 60 as you said...though I thought it was down to 30.

[itachi73378]

Hmm...for some reason I thought it had 48...but still, Xbox was there too so technically the jump can be seen with the highest specs.

I thought the PS3's OS was around 30MBs now...and the 256MB can't be right because you're speaking about the OS that we use when there's nothing else on...which still reserves 256MB no matter what, they will probably never reduce this (but make it more efficient) as we don't need much RAM to run programs other than games. Unless of course you were running an app.

The in-game stripped down OS has never been 256MB or there wouldn't be any left for games...I think the highest it's been is around 90MB or maybe a little more but now it's about 30 or 60 as you said...though I thought it was down to 30.

PS3 OS is 55mb. 360 is 32mb. The memory games use is ofcourse 256-55 ~ 200mb

[ps3freak18]

You are correct that the OS will reguire a set amount so lets assume its 512mb. Now you have 7.5GB left

A unified architecture allows for what ever amount devs want. If I want I can use 6GB for GPU and only give 1.5GB to CPU or I can do 3GB to GPU and the rest to CPU....its all under my control in a unified memory setup (like the xbox360 and ps4)

You are confused because PC cards come with dedicated VRAM. You cannot get more than 2GB for GPU in a gtx660ti but that is because they aren't unified.

Wow! That is cool. Never knew that. No wonder they are so psyched. The amount of freedom is ridiculous.

[Bigdoggy]

Okay, here is the thread. Yea, thanks to some people in here I had to sit down with "coconut_crunch" and explain GDDR5 to him thank you guys. Took me almost an hour to explain GDDR5 Unified memory. LMFAO He is currently living in my house. o.O

[ps3freak18]

Okay, here is the thread. Yea, thanks to some people in here I had to sit down with "coconut_crunch" and explain GDDR5 to him thank you guys. Took me almost an hour to explain GDDR5 Unified memory. LMFAO He is currently living in my house. o.O

Lol that is awesome!

[MonkeyClaw]

Okay, here is the thread. Yea, thanks to some people in here I had to sit down with "coconut_crunch" and explain GDDR5 to him thank you guys. Took me almost an hour to explain GDDR5 Unified memory. LMFAO He is currently living in my house. o.O

LOL! Does he understand how it works now?

[Bigdoggy]

Pretty sure he does even if a little, I've been pretty damn busy lately but damn, It's all good though.

[PeanutButterMunky]

Okay, here is the thread. Yea, thanks to some people in here I had to sit down with "coconut_crunch" and explain GDDR5 to him thank you guys. Took me almost an hour to explain GDDR5 Unified memory. LMFAO He is currently living in my house. o.O

You must be explaining things to him all day long.

[admartian]

Okay, here is the thread. Yea, thanks to some people in here I had to sit down with "coconut_crunch" and explain GDDR5 to him thank you guys. Took me almost an hour to explain GDDR5 Unified memory. LMFAO He is currently living in my house. o.O

Have you got Birds & the Bees covered?

[Bigdoggy]

You must be explaining things to him all day long.

must get back on topic after this but put it this way. Try explaining something to a guy that has a beard down to his belly, he has a big ol beard lmao. I mean, he is very excited about the PS4 and I couldn't stop laughing but yea.

I really don't give two shits on what Carmack says actually. His games really don't appeal to me and he could jump off a cliff and I wouldn't give a shit. The guy is kind of a royal douche. I did however get excited when I heard the specs of the PS4, I literally went like this O.O

[PeanutButterMunky]

must get back on topic after this but put it this way. Try explaining something to a guy that has a beard down to his belly, he has a big ol beard lmao. I mean, he is very excited about the PS4 and I couldn't stop laughing but yea.

I really don't give two shits on what Carmack says actually. His games really don't appeal to me and he could jump off a cliff and I wouldn't give a shit. The guy is kind of a royal douche. I did however get excited when I heard the specs of the PS4, I literally went like this O.O

I'm trying to visualize this angry bearded gentlemen trying to grasp GDDR5... lol.

[MonkeyClaw]

must get back on topic after this but put it this way. Try explaining something to a guy that has a beard down to his belly, he has a big ol beard lmao. I mean, he is very excited about the ps4 and i couldn't stop laughing but yea.

I really don't give two shits on what carmack says actually. His games really don't appeal to me and he could jump off a cliff and i wouldn't give a shit. The guy is kind of a royal douche. I did however get excited when i heard the specs of the ps4, i literally went like this o.o

Santa!

[PeanutButterMunky]

Santa!

Pfft... Santa would know all about GDDR5.

[Sufi]

PS3 OS is 55mb. 360 is 32mb. The memory games use is ofcourse 256-55 ~ 200mb

Yea there we go...I knew something was around 30mb...what sucks for ps3 is that 360 uses less memory and has better functionality...lol

[Ixion]

Some more developer reactions:

Tim Sweeney, Epic Games Founder and CEO

The PlayStation 4 is a leading-edge hardware platform, and its enormous CPU, GPU and memory resources enables Unreal Engine 4 to reach levels of visual quality and detail that go far beyond the current generation, for games of all sizes and genres.

The features and effects in our new "Elemental" demo on PlayStation 4 are just the tip of the iceberg, showing dynamic lighting and shadowing, subsurface scattering and GPU-powered particle effects at full 1080p resolution.

As the developers of the Unreal Engine, we're passionate about not only building great games, but building them efficiently. PlayStation 4 builds upon PC technology and takes it to the next level, providing a very robust and easy-to-use development environment.

As we're building games that are an order of magnitude more detailed than the current generation, Unreal Engine 4's tools combined with PlayStation 4's hardware enable developers to achieve that in a reasonable amount of time and on-budget. Our console efforts are focused on high-end, mainstream platforms that will be supported by enormous launches and large-scale support by major developers and publishers.

With PlayStation 4, Sony has defined an ideal next-generation platform with massive appeal to core gamers, and incredible potential for bringing triple-A experiences to the next level.


Ted Price, Insomniac President and CEO

Yes, the PS3 got a bad rap for being tough to develop for. I imagine that's kept some developers from making the leap -- no such excuse exists now. But having worked with Sony first party folks for many years I think what's often overlooked is how creatively supportive Sony has been for its partners over the last couple of decades. Games like Ico, Little Big Planet and Journey exist thanks in large part to Shuhei Yoshida's and others' commitment to shepherding innovation and taking creative risks. I see that continuing and that's great for gamers.

[Mark Cerny] is a thoughtful, brilliant guy and to have him leading the effort on Sony's software approach speaks volumes for how much Sony has listened to developers during this past generation.

There's a lot about the PlayStation 4 that is clearly an advance over the PS3. And that's cool from a dev perspective. But looking at the bigger picture, what's important to us as a developer who's created franchises for the Sony platforms is that Sony fans are excited. Reading comments online yesterday it seems to me that there are a lot of Sony loyalists who are pumped about the new console. That's great for all of us who make games on Sony platforms.

The Share button has me the most excited. It's visually the most subtle new feature but potentially the most powerful. As most gamers know, hooking up and sharing with your friends is a super-gratifying aspect of gaming today. But it can be a convoluted process depending on the game and the hardware. If it truly does become a one-button press to connect with your friends it'll be a big step forward for games.


David Goldfarb, Overkill Game Director

I guess I didn't see anything -- in terms of software -- that I was genuinely excited about. Killzone 4 looked wonderful, but I didn't get why I should want to play the game. The moment I liked there was when they moved the crowds away from the player -- I found that interesting, intriguing. But the moment my gun came out it was every other shooter, ever.

The other software I saw I felt equally ambivalent about, but there are a lot of talented developers out there and I'm sure some good stuff will come to be. The Gaikai stuff is interesting and potentially huge. The hardware seems like powerful and easier to develop for. I was hoping for more innovation in the input, but time will tell how that works out.

I think the irony for me is that "next-gen console" is mostly playing catch-up with PCs, So if they aren't innovating on other axes I think it's going to be a rough transition for everyone.


Josh Tsui, Robomodo President

Since new console introductions only come once every 5 or so years from each company, this was some pretty exciting stuff.

Personally, my eyes glaze over seeing yet another military fps blah-blah-blah or any other tired genre. We all know that we'll get certain game types. I was more excited to see what Media Molecule and Jonathan Blow were up to. It was nice to see Sony give indie gaming some time as Sony has some really great things for indie developers. If they can carve out a part of their digital download strategy for some serious indie distribution that is sane, I think that would be a surprising game-changer against other consoles.

I was really hoping for at least one "big" feature that makes me go "holy crap, never thought about that" in terms of changing the way people play games currently. Not necessarily a bad thing, but I was surprised not one single new feature really jumped out.

One pleasant thing that was implied a couple of times is that PS4 is a game machine first and foremost. Games being what leads the experience. I personally like that a lot. Doesn't mean I won't use Netflix on it, but it means that I know where I can turn for a quick game fix. I hope they keep to that promise and make sure that the UX is game-centric.


Stewart Gilray, Just Add Water CEO

We are incredibly proud to be working on PS4. Sony's passion and insight into connectivity and instant-access gaming is incredibly refreshing and encouraging to us as a developers. It allows us the ability to create immersive titles that truly engage the player at all opportunities.

PS4 is a dream. It's as they said: incredibly easy to develop for and extremely powerful. Having 8GB of DDR5 ram is staggering, as the speed that the data can be shifted around outstrips that 8GB. However, as a smallish indie, to us it's not about what we can do, it's about what we can do well. 1080p, 60fps, 3D is where it's at, and so far we're blown away by what we've managed to achieve with the hardware. Currently our imaginations are running away with themselves.


Jared Gerritzen, Zombie Studios Creative Studio Head

It's no secret PC gaming is and will be driving technical growth in the gaming industry, however the console "experience" is completely different and something we all can easily enjoy. With the PS4 announcement, the biggest thing I'm excited about is the evolved controller.

The addition of a touch screen can be a serious game changer, games can now expand out of the constraints of the set number of buttons and add swipes and other quick motions to add more depth in the gameplay and function of the game. I love the idea of the share button as well giving players even quicker access to show off games we all work so hard to make.

I have gotten my hands on the controller recently and I'm very happy to say the thumb sticks feel WAY better, and it was my biggest gripe about the PS3.

[PeanutButterMunky]

Nice read, Ix. Thanks.

[emmerich]

I'm glad Sony are going with a more developer friendly system this time round. It will only benefit them. I'm more excited for PS4 than ever. Wish it was holiday season already.

[Ixion]

Interesting to see how two of them were impressed by Killzone's visuals, but bored by its gameplay. Here's hoping Guerilla shows off some unique gameplay elements at E3.

One important gameplay addition is the increased traversablility of the levels, as it seems you'll be able to climb around the levels more.

[emmerich]

I wonder what the first big game on the PS4 will turn out to be. The one played by the majority online. I hope there is something to take us all away from Call of Duty.

[itachi73378]

I wonder what the first big game on the PS4 will turn out to be. The one played by the majority online. I hope there is something to take us all away from Call of Duty.

duh, Killzone Shadowfall

or
Dust514
Planestside 2 (not confirmed yet)

[admartian]

Interesting to see how two of them were impressed by Killzone's visuals, but bored by its gameplay. Here's hoping Guerilla shows off some unique gameplay elements at E3.

One important gameplay addition is the increased traversablility of the levels, as it seems you'll be able to climb around the levels more.

I hear this about shooters all the time. But I always struggle to think of what exactly can they do to tweak it so it's not so 'samey'? With any fps game.

I mean, you can only add so much, and I feel certain games get a 'pass' for being labekled with the "boring FPS" tag because they excel in other areas.

Bioshock = excellent narrative, and atmoshpere. Detailed game world. Similar so with Halo; with added MP appeal and a less linear world. FarCry series, sandbox FPS experience.

But at the core of the gameplay, is very much the same from that of Killzone etc. What is it that people want?

Is it hunting sidequests ()?

Conversely, I think Killzone can do a lot better with the way the narrative is executed and pouring a better atmosphere into their games. I believe that the universe of Killzone is rich, divers,e and interesting enough for this. They just haven't capitalised imo.

[itachi73378]

I hear this about shooters all the time. But I always struggle to think of what exactly can they do to tweak it so it's not so 'samey'? With any fps game.

I mean, you can only add so much, and I feel certain games get a 'pass' for being labekled with the "boring FPS" tag because they excel in other areas.

Bioshock = excellent narrative, and atmoshpere. Detailed game world. Similar so with Halo; with added MP appeal and a less linear world. FarCry series, sandbox FPS experience.

But at the core of the gameplay, is very much the same from that of Killzone etc. What is it that people want?

Is it hunting sidequests ()?

Conversely, I think Killzone can do a lot better with the way the narrative is executed and pouring a better atmosphere into their games. I believe that the universe of Killzone is rich, divers,e and interesting enough for this. They just haven't capitalised imo.

For someone like me who HATES military fps games, bioshock 2 is the best fps shooter I've ever played. The gameplay provides you with unlimited freedom on how to tackle enemies with any combination of plasmids and tonics. More importantly, the world of bioshock is far more rich and depp than any other out there.

I think that is what people want

[Bigdoggy]

Interesting to see how two of them were impressed by Killzone's visuals, but bored by its gameplay. Here's hoping Guerilla shows off some unique gameplay elements at E3.

One important gameplay addition is the increased traversablility of the levels, as it seems you'll be able to climb around the levels more.

I watched that trailer a few times. Did you notice something similar with how they tried to aim at enemies in this trailer Vs. Killzone3?

Notice how he was straffing in order to get the cross hairs on the enemy, almost like they were using those bullshit controls that plagued killzone3. I won't be buying this game that's for sure. Nobody I know straffs like that to get the cross hair on the enemy unless it has that shitty analog delay and acceleration bullshit.

If they are going to try to mimic weight in their controls again GG can kiss my ass. I knew exactly what to look for when it comes to GG. They have a habit of making shitty controls.

[ps3freak18]

Nice find Ixion. There isn't much negativity coming from devs about the PS4 these days. That can only mean one thing...Lots and lots of games! Consider me excited in that alone!