Update: Microsoft is hosting a Xbox Conf. in April

[Soldier 95B]

With all the awesome exclusive retail, xbla and indie titles they keep pumping and pumping out, I will not be surprised the Xbox 3 is headed that way as well. The EA connection should be interesting. I have to wonder if it is more related to some sort of connectivity or social exclusive connectivity, not necessarily a game.

[radgamer420]

Bummer that some found the Xbox not giving out awesome core exclusives at the end of the gen. Glad others like me got more and more. I hope that continues with the Xbox 3.

lol

[Sufi]

1. No you didn't say that. Haha. You said "That's probably" = "Yes that is correct, probably because..." There's absolutely no way you can twist that. You can change your mind, but that's not what you said back then.

Looking back at it, yes you're right, I do see that I made that a probability due to the fact that it came out very late. Though after that i looked at the numbers and mentioned that you wouldn't be able to measure that anyway without a proper study.

2.

]"You're not good at statistics". - Answer: You're not good at understanding a question, you answer something you haven't been asked and you go even further by assuming the interlocutor doesn't know the answer. You would've saved yourself a lot of writing if you understood the real question. The question was (read carefully) I didn't know you could measure "fun".

First: Emotions like "Having Fun" can't be scientifically measured as of today. There are many projects for this, but in their very basic stages, and dealing with the subjective nature of the matter.

Yes you can. You can actually take an MRI, watch someone play and measure their brain activity and specifically tell how much excitement they're getting depending on how much the brain lights up in certain parts.

But that wouldn't be feasible when you can just ask people and that would give you a more accurate reading as it would be difficult to do MRI tests on thousands of people.

Why polls would be good enough in this matter is because even if you get the few people that aren't either sure about their answer, are lying to make it look more or less, the aggregated response should still give more accurate data as you would likely have a larger sample this way.

As for your answer workaround answer (which is not what I asked) NO. You can't objectify the subjective by just asking a person. You are suggesting that you would have an accurate, measurable result over an inaccurate, immeasurable, subjective source.

Yes the poll would accurately show what people said, but being this subjective and inaccurate, the result would suffer from the same. Want an accurate result? First and foremost make your source measurable. What you're suggesting is just a count of innacurate data. Useless.

Yes, but like I said, it wouldn't matter because you will be subjective answers in both cases, GT5 and Forza 4. No study out there looks for 100% accuracy, there will be outliers, there will be errors. The point is the aggregated results that should give a good idea of where the perception lies.

The way you're saying it, would make forecasting agencies go out of business, it's just not feasible to conduct something so expensive and detailed. In the end, it's just a damn game and really no one cares. You're just hellbent on proving that Forza provided more fun/hours and want to argue to the nth degree to prove your point.

3.

For hours played, that's obvious and that IS measurable, but it's not required in this particular case, as you cleverly agreed at first.

Yes, before I realized the numbers, I did. Then I remembered that Forza is not as big of a seller as GT and argued against your claim.

P.S. Could you please elaborate on these projects that are trying to measure fun? I'd love to know what they are.

[Shibby]

I think it will. We will find out next month for sure. I'm interested in this rumored EA deal they have. I'm hoping for some Battlefield 4 or maybe Mirrors Edge 2.

I saw something not too long ago about how EA wanted ME2 to be more of a shooter. I hate them with a burning passion.

[Aquanox]

Looking back at it, yes you're right, I do see that I made that a probability due to the fact that it came out very late. Though after that i looked at the numbers and mentioned that you wouldn't be able to measure that anyway without a proper study.

Fine. That's how you contradicted yourself later on. Ok now you say you changed your mind. That's new for me. I don't wanna dig deeper on this one.

Yes you can. You can actually take an MRI, watch someone play and measure their brain activity and specifically tell how much excitement they're getting depending on how much the brain lights up in certain parts.

But that wouldn't be feasible when you can just ask people and that would give you a more accurate reading as it would be difficult to do MRI tests on thousands of people.

That's ok for an Sci-fi movie, but it's not that simple in real life. There are no proven theories for measuring emotions... as I said before, there are very interesting projects in this regard, like "measuring the impossible", but their biggest problem is how to make the subjective, objective. They need to deal with philosophy principles for example in order to define what "fun" is... which is relative depending on the individual. Hence, you can't measure something that is not properly defined.

As an additional info, silent MRI is a very very new technology... it would be nearly impossible to properly measure emotions with regular ultra loud MRI equipment.

Why polls would be good enough in this matter is because even if you get the few people that aren't either sure about their answer, are lying to make it look more or less, the aggregated response should still give more accurate data as you would likely have a larger sample this way.

Same as before. You need metrics here, not extensive random/unpredictable information. Useless.

Yes, but like I said, it wouldn't matter because you will be subjective answers in both cases, GT5 and Forza 4. No study out there looks for 100% accuracy, there will be outliers, there will be errors. The point is the aggregated results that should give a good idea of where the perception lies.

Yes all statistical studies have an error range, no matter how measurable your source of information is and reliable your methods are. But if your source is not scientifically measurable then you will end up with something known as "trash input"... which leads to trash output... where error ranges are redundant.

The way you're saying it, would make forecasting agencies go out of business, it's just not feasible to conduct something so expensive and detailed. In the end, it's just a damn game and really no one cares.

No, I'm not saying that. I agree with you, I was only curious about you severing that measuring emotions like "fun" is possible.

Yes, before I realized the numbers, I did. Then I remembered that Forza is not as big of a seller as GT and argued against your claim.

You're just hellbent on proving that Forza provided more fun/hours and want to argue to the nth degree to prove your point.

For me, It's just common sense. But if you want, you could make your own educated speculation based on sales numbers, release dates and content. Everything will go in favor of Forza.

You will need to consider that:

1. Prologue, while sold a lot...it was just a beefed up demo with only 6 tracks. You just can't compare it with a full game. Being optimistic, people probably played it 1-2/10 as much as they played the full GT5.

2. Forza 2 + 3 + 4 + Horizon sold around 2 million units more than GT5 + GT Prologue. Since prologue doesn't weight as much as a full game, you'll have to make a ponderation, then you'll have to assign a weight to each one. I'd assign Prologue a 0.1-0.2 weight, and the rest 1.0.

3. There are good chances that Forza players kept playing Forza 2 even after 3 was released, and so on. Just like there's a lot of people still playing Fifa 12 when Fifa 13 is out. However, the amount of people playing Prologue after Gt5 would be minimal compared to it, it was the same game but complete this time.

4. GT5 launched in late 2010... meaning that a lot of their fanbase (probably half of it? I don't have the exact number) have had it for a bit more than a year. Obviously not all of those units were sold at launch, which gives them a lot less time to catch up in miles raced compared to Forza.

5. Multiple titles and content have kept the fanse base active and coming back for more in Forza.

There you go. You will probably try to push the numbers as much as you could in order to make it look as close as possible but I'm 100% sure that after analyzing carefully, you'd agree with me, even if you say otherwise.

[sainraja]

1. Prologue, while sold a lot...it was just a beefed up demo with only 6 tracks. You just can't compare it with a full game. Being optimistic, people probably played it 1-2/10 as much as they played the full GT5.

2. Forza 2 + 3 + 4 + Horizon sold around 2 million units more than GT5 + GT Prologue. Since prologue doesn't weight as much as a full game, you'll have to make a ponderation, then you'll have to assign a weight to each one. I'd assign Prologue a 0.1-0.2 weight, and the rest 1.0.

3. There are good chances that Forza players kept playing Forza 2 even after 3 was released, and so on. Just like there's a lot of people still playing Fifa 12 when Fifa 13 is out. However, the amount of people playing Prologue after Gt5 would be minimal compared to it, it was the same game but complete this time.

4. GT5 launched in late 2010... meaning that a lot of their fanbase (probably half of it? I don't have the exact number) have had it for a bit more than a year. Obviously not all of those units were sold at launch, which gives them a lot less time to catch up in miles raced compared to Forza.

5. Multiple titles and content have kept the fanse base active and coming back for more in Forza.

I have a question. Do you expect people to take you seriously?

There you go. You will probably try to push the numbers as much as you could in order to make it look as close as possible but I'm 100% sure that after analyzing carefully, you'd agree with me, even if you say otherwise.

....kind of like you are?

[Ghost-Rhayne]

The pride of console allegiance is at stake! Sony MUST be discredited at all costs!

[Two4DaMoney]

Edit: due to old figures.

I didn't read all that shit. Not going to. But what are the total figures for the forza releases for the 360?

[mynd]

Edit: due to old figures.

I didn't read all that shit. Not going to. But what are the total figures for the forza releases for the 360?

SWFA compared to GT?

At a guess around 8 million if the figures are to be believed.
Probably about the same as GT5?
I don't really care.

[Soldier 95B]

The pride of console allegiance is at stake! Sony MUST be discredited at all costs!

Yes! And Microsoft! Hear hear!

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk 2

[X2]

If the Durango meeting happens March 4th we should be hearing some things this week, hopefully.

[snooper71]

If the Durango meeting happens March 4th we should be hearing some things this week, hopefully.

Missed something here... Whats going on March 4th

[Sufi]

Fine. That's how you contradicted yourself later on. Ok now you say you changed your mind. That's new for me. I don't wanna dig deeper on this one.

Ok, there's a difference between contradiction and revising your opinion due to new information. Contradiction is when nothing has changed and the information you say is conflicting.

In my case, I made that statement without any numbers, then I looked at the numbers and made a new statement. Not a contradiction.

That's ok for an Sci-fi movie, but it's not that simple in real life.

Yes it is doctor lol. Have you ever taken Psychology? Do you realize how they measure a mental illness? They know exactly what each part of the brain conveys if it lights up.

There are no proven theories for measuring emotions... as I said before, there are very interesting projects in this regard, like "measuring the impossible", but their biggest problem is how to make the subjective, objective. They need to deal with philosophy principles for example in order to define what "fun" is... which is relative depending on the individual. Hence, you can't measure something that is not properly defined.

As an additional info, silent MRI is a very very new technology... it would be nearly impossible to properly measure emotions with regular ultra loud MRI equipment.

This is the problem, no one is talking about complex emotions, you keep going into that. Fun is about excitement and you can measure the excitement activity in your brain by simply doing an MRI.

EDIT: This is what the "Measuring the Impossible" states: human perception and/or interpretation. Yea, I get that but fun is not a complex emotion, you can see brain activity to see how much fun someone is having. Shit I bet you could do that with a polygraph lol.

Same as before. You need metrics here, not extensive random/unpredictable information. Useless.

1) it's not random. Statistics, if done right (meaning no bias is present from the author), is a very good way to find the trends. You can do a thousand MRIs and it might still have a large error of margin compared to a poll done with a 10,000 sample. Either way, I don't understand why you're arguing when both of those go in my favor, both can measure excitement or "fun". I was just telling you that it's more feasible to do a poll instead.

Yes all statistical studies have an error range, no matter how measurable your source of information is and reliable your methods are. But if your source is not scientifically measurable then you will end up with something known as "trash input"... which leads to trash output... where error ranges are redundant.

Dude lol...statistics are scientific. What you're talking about is more detail...it doesn't make statistics trash but the best way to conduct a study without spending millions of dollars.

No, I'm not saying that. I agree with you, I was only curious about you severing that measuring emotions like "fun" is possible.

Yes it is.

For me, It's just common sense. But if you want, you could make your own educated speculation based on sales numbers, release dates and content. Everything will go in favor of Forza.

You will need to consider that:

1. Prologue, while sold a lot...it was just a beefed up demo with only 6 tracks. You just can't compare it with a full game. Being optimistic, people probably played it 1-2/10 as much as they played the full GT5.

I like how you make up statistics as we go while calling it "trash input".

How about this, the fact that it was a demo and only came with 6 tracks and sold more or less than any of the Forza installments, may give you an idea how popular it is? Do you think a Forza demo with 6 tracks sell 4m+?

That's common sense to me.

2. Forza 2 + 3 + 4 + Horizon sold around 2 million units more than GT5 + GT Prologue. Since prologue doesn't weight as much as a full game, you'll have to make a ponderation, then you'll have to assign a weight to each one. I'd assign Prologue a 0.1-0.2 weight, and the rest 1.0.

Ponderation isn't a word. Yea, Horizon sold just a little over a million and you can say that the series sold more. Then you look at the fact that there are 4 Forza games vs 1 GT game and a demo...do you really think a mil or two matter? Really?

3. There are good chances that Forza players kept playing Forza 2 even after 3 was released, and so on. Just like there's a lot of people still playing Fifa 12 when Fifa 13 is out. However, the amount of people playing Prologue after Gt5 would be minimal compared to it, it was the same game but complete this time.

Ok, sure, I'll believe the part where GT5:P people moved on but we'd have to know how many forza 2, 3 and so on...because looking at sequels and previous installments of other games, I barely see somewhere from a thousand to max 5 thousand people playing at any time. If you think Forza is different and hold it in a higher regard than other games that are much more popular then fine.

There's no way to tell but generally the trend is that most people move on, 1) over time and especially 2) when a sequel comes out.

Since Forza Horizon is a completely different game (and you're still adding it lol which is fine), I'm sure majority of the Forza fans are still playing the 4th one.

4. GT5 launched in late 2010... meaning that a lot of their fanbase (probably half of it? I don't have the exact number) have had it for a bit more than a year. Obviously not all of those units were sold at launch, which gives them a lot less time to catch up in miles raced compared to Forza.

Ok point taken but that still does not mean anything. Because we don't know how many hours a Forza player generally logs into the game (oh crap looks like you need that trashy statistics to find out this one or wait a few more decades for those project that are running).

5. Multiple titles and content have kept the fanse base active and coming back for more in Forza.

So if the fanbase keeps coming back, then the Forza fanbase must not be more than 4-5m. You can't say that a lot of people still playing the previous installments while coming back to the newer installments, you can only play one game at a time. That sounds absurd.

The fact that not a single Forza game has sold more than 5.5m, leaves me with a good reason to believe that its fanbase is much lower than GTs.

There you go. You will probably try to push the numbers as much as you could in order to make it look as close as possible but I'm 100% sure that after analyzing carefully, you'd agree with me, even if you say otherwise.

I'm 100% sure that you are not analyzing it carefully.

[Two4DaMoney]

Bummer that some found the Xbox not giving out awesome core exclusives at the end of the gen. Glad others like me got more and more. I hope that continues with the Xbox 3.

Not more and more big budget exclusives. And if you say yes then you are just lying. Get out of that dream world. The quality doesn't have shit to do with the convo that you stuck your nose in. Awesome, sucky, doesn't matter. There's only 4 big budget exclusives. 2 to choose each year.

[Soldier 95B]

Not more and more big budget exclusives. And if you say yes then you are just lying. Get out of that dream world. The quality doesn't have shit to do with the convo that you stuck your nose in. Awesome, sucky, doesn't matter. There's only 4 big budget exclusives. 2 to choose each year.

Your opinion is noted.

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk 2

[Sub-stance1]

Your opinion is noted.

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk 2

Indeed. Over and and over and over and over and over again....lol

[Aquanox]

Ok, there's a difference between contradiction and revising your opinion due to new information. Contradiction is when nothing has changed and the information you say is conflicting.

In my case, I made that statement without any numbers, then I looked at the numbers and made a new statement. Not a contradiction.

No. Because it was ME who had to make you note your contradiction. You changed your mind yet you didn't realize just a bit before you arrogantly asseverated the opposite? Yes Sir... lol

Yes it is doctor lol. Have you ever taken Psychology? Do you realize how they measure a mental illness? They know exactly what each part of the brain conveys if it lights up.

First, that's not a psychologist specialty... Second... mental illnesses are rarely treated this way. and 3rd an emotion is not an illness with well defined symptoms.

Suggesting that human brain and emotions are that simple's gotta be the most ridiculous thing I've read in a long time.

Human brain is NOT simple. (It's a CPU we're talking about here!)

I'm very tempted to make a joke right now but I'd probably receive an infraction haha!

This is the problem, no one is talking about complex emotions, you keep going into that. Fun is about excitement and you can measure the excitement activity in your brain by simply doing an MRI.

You can "have fun" with a game without getting excited... depending whatever each individual consider "fun". That's why it is a subjective concept. I hope you're starting to get it now.

EDIT: This is what the "Measuring the Impossible" states: human perception and/or interpretation. Yea, I get that but fun is not a complex emotion, you can see brain activity to see how much fun someone is having. Shit I bet you could do that with a polygraph lol.

After reading all the nonsense you've just thrown... yes, I bet you'd make such a bet... for sure.

1) it's not random. Statistics, if done right (meaning no bias is present from the author), is a very good way to find the trends. You can do a thousand MRIs and it might still have a large error of margin compared to a poll done with a 10,000 sample. Either way, I don't understand why you're arguing when both of those go in my favor, both can measure excitement or "fun". I was just telling you that it's more feasible to do a poll instead.


Dude lol...statistics are scientific. What you're talking about is more detail...it doesn't make statistics trash but the best way to conduct a study without spending millions of dollars.

Yes it is.

Man... Read my post again... What you don't end up understanding (again) it that you'd have a count of subjective information. I'm not arguing about statistics being scientific or not....

How about this, the fact that it was a demo and only came with 6 tracks and sold more or less than any of the Forza installments, may give you an idea how popular it is? Do you think a Forza demo with 6 tracks sell 4m+?

Probably because lack of content gets boring faster?...
And you're still trying to give Prologue the same weight as a game... Oh man...

That's common sense to me.

Curious... it was all the opposite in your first post.

Ponderation isn't a word.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ponderation
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pondering

Yea, Horizon sold just a little over a million and you can say that the series sold more. Then you look at the fact that there are 4 Forza games vs 1 GT game and a demo...do you really think a mil or two matter? Really?

If 25% of the total sales is represented by a DEMO, then yes, of course =) Haha...

Ok, sure, I'll believe the part where GT5:P people moved on but we'd have to know how many forza 2, 3 and so on...because looking at sequels and previous installments of other games, I barely see somewhere from a thousand to max 5 thousand people playing at any time. If you think Forza is different and hold it in a higher regard than other games that are much more popular then fine.

There's no way to tell but generally the trend is that most people move on, 1) over time and especially 2) when a sequel comes out.

Since Forza Horizon is a completely different game (and you're still adding it lol which is fine), I'm sure majority of the Forza fans are still playing the 4th one.

You keep missing the point that GTP had very very short longevity. And it represents half the total sales of GT5... And as a whole they both sum 2 million less that Forza Series. YES IT DOES MATTER.

Ok point taken but that still does not mean anything. Because we don't know how many hours a Forza player generally logs into the game (oh crap looks like you need that trashy statistics to find out this one or wait a few more decades for those project that are running).

No. YOU need those stats. It's crystal clear.

So if the fanbase keeps coming back, then the Forza fanbase must not be more than 4-5m. You can't say that a lot of people still playing the previous installments while coming back to the newer installments, you can only play one game at a time. That sounds absurd.

The factthat not a single Forza game has sold more than 5.5m, leaves me with a good reason to believe that its fanbase is much lower than GTs.

Yes the fanbase is clearly smaller but it had way much more time and reasons (new releases, downloadable content, vast online modes) to keep playing the series.

I'm 100% sure that you are not analyzing it carefully.

Will all due respect Sufi... you need to raise the bar in your answers. I'm losing interest in this discussion. I'm not your teacher.

[Blacksite]

I thought this thread was about the Microsoft conference. Don't you have a thread for the Gran Turismo vs. Forza discussion already?

[Two4DaMoney]

Your opinion is noted.

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk 2

It's not an opinion. So fuck all that.

4 big budget exclusives in rotation is not an opinion

2 big budget exclusives released each year is not an opinion

Saying you enjoy more big budget exclusives makes you a liar.

[Sufi]

No. Because it was ME who had to make you note your contradiction. You changed your mind yet you didn't realize just a bit before you arrogantly asseverated the opposite? Yes Sir... lol

You can call whatever you want to call. I'm telling you what happened and you can clearly see it in my first two posts, I know what contradiction means.

First, that's not a psychologist specialty... Second... mental illnesses are rarely treated this way. and 3rd an emotion is not an illness with well defined symptoms.

First, I never said it was a psychologist specialty, I was giving you an example of where an MRI has been used to detect brain activity.

Second, I did not say that you treat an illness this way but if you'd like to know, you diagnose an illness this way.

Third, I did not say that an emotion is an illness...this was meant to be an example of how we know where illnesses come from. By studying the brain through an MRI and I'm sure various other sources.

Suggesting that human brain and emotions are that simple's gotta be the most ridiculous thing I've read in a long time.

Human brain is NOT simple. (It's a CPU we're talking about here!)

I'm very tempted to make a joke right now but I'd probably receive an infraction haha!

Not sure what joke you had here but you keep side-stepping. I'm not calling "emotions" as a whole simple. I'm calling brain activity that shows "excitement" to be very simple to detect. This is nothing new, it's been around since the early 90s.

I know you're trying to sway from "fun" to this ecosystem of "emotions" and it's not going to work.

You can "have fun" with a game without getting excited... depending whatever each individual consider "fun". That's why it is a subjective concept. I hope you're starting to get it now.

Really? lol. See now you're just going to make things up because you've run out of side-quests.

Ok, so then you must be talking about aliens because no human on this planet...never mind, no mammal...no wait, no living thing that has a brain on this planet would have fun without showing excitement as far as brain activity is involved.

Now, I just wanna make sure that you understand what I mean...when I say "excitement" relating to "fun", I'm not saying jumping up and down kind of excitement. I'm talking about the brain activity related to excitement that occurs every time your brain rewards you. I.e. You take a day off to rest and if your brain likes that (which it generally should), then it will show activity that would easily be identified as positive.

Without this activity showing, you can't possibly be having fun unless, of course, you're brain dead...and if you are then why are we doing an MRI on you?

After reading all the nonsense you've just thrown... yes, I bet you'd make such a bet... for sure.

You had no answer there, fine. Anyway, you should look up polygraphs...they go by your pulse rate, blood pressure, breathing...which are linked to your brain activity...very basic but just saying. You're making measurement of brain activity out to be a sci-fi tech when it's not.

Man... Read my post again... What you don't end up understanding (again) it that you'd have a count of subjective information. I'm not arguing about statistics being scientific or not....

Right. I never argued that it is subjective or not, I'm saying (for the 5th time?) that it's not feasible and it doesn't make it trash because tons of studies are done this way that help us better understand our world.

Fine, you can do a thorough study of all Forza/GT fans through an MRI scan and you will see who's having how much fun. Happy? Yay.

Probably because lack of content gets boring faster?...
And you're still trying to give Prologue the same weight as a game... Oh man...

No, I'm saying that GT is more popular than Forza because a GT demo sold more or less than a fully fledged Forza game.

Curious... it was all the opposite in your first post.

I don't get this part.

If 25% of the total sales is represented by a DEMO, then yes, of course =) Haha...

I don't know how you're making that out to be a negative when I see that as a positive in all respects. A demo sold (requiring money) 4m+...that's unheard of.

You keep missing the point that GTP had very very short longevity. And it represents half the total sales of GT5... And as a whole they both sum 2 million less that Forza Series. YES IT DOES MATTER.

How would you know that it had a "very very short longevity"?

I'm sorry, are you trying to pass off Forza as a more popular series because I swear I see that with your 2 extra mil argument lol. So they came out with a bunch of games, that's normal for a game to sell at least a couple every time if it's relatively popular.

Do you realize how many games has GT sold as a series? Please don't argue there, it's all maths from there, no subjective opinion.

No. YOU need those stats. It's crystal clear.

Of course it's crystal clear to you, just like how your 8 balls tells you to write those accurate statistics like you've been posting above.

Yes the fanbase is clearly smaller but it had way much more time and reasons (new releases, downloadable content, vast online modes) to keep playing the series.

Again, you're blindly going by subjective findings. You'd need actual numbers first: i.e. how many people are buying the content, are they satisfied with the content to keep playing, how many people are playing on and offline.

Just because new content is coming out, does not mean the game has more members playing or that it revitalizes the game as much as you're thinking it does.

BF3 has come out with so much content in the past year but it's very clear that Black Ops 2 still has more players online at any point. I'm speaking about consoles but even if you compare PC stats with BO2 stats on consoles, BO2 wins and it just came out with a new map pack with barely any content....whereas BF3 comes out with practically expansions.

Will all due respect Sufi... you need to raise the bar in your answers. I'm losing interest in this discussion. I'm not your teacher.

You're not my teacher? What does that even mean? haha.

*facepalm* *sigh* feels like 2005.

[Lefein]

[Soldier 95B]

It's not an opinion. So fuck all that.

4 big budget exclusives in rotation is not an opinion

2 big budget exclusives released each year is not an opinion

Saying you enjoy more big budget exclusives makes you a liar.

What ever trips your trigger man. Not gonna argue with you for the sake of arguing. You have stated your view.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[X2]

Missed something here... Whats going on March 4th

Internal Durango Meeting.

[Two4DaMoney]

What ever trips your trigger man. Not gonna argue with you for the sake of arguing. You have stated your view.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

It's not just for the sake of arguing. You made a comment and you got caught up in your own web. I'm very easily pointing out to you the flaw in your comment. You can't argue your lie against my stated fact even if you wanted to so I see why you don't want to "argue" gesshh.

edit:

[Flaw3d Genius]

It's not just for the sake of arguing. You made a comment and you got caught up in your own web. I'm very easily pointing out to you the flaw in your comment. You can't argue your lie against my stated fact even if you wanted to so I see why you don't want to "argue" gesshh.

"Gesshh" Now that's not very "Gangsta" for a keyboard warrior!

It's amazing you got me reported and then banned yet you constantly troll this forum and nothing is done!

No doubt i'l get another ban for not wanting a troll this side of the forum...but what can you do... No doubt you;l be here in 2 years time while someone as level headed as myself will be well gone.