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  1. #26
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    You know, considering the architecture of the consoles, I'd laugh my ass off if someone managed to port console exclusives over to PC. Then, I wouldn't have to buy a console and could stick with my already superior PC.

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  3. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Since PC games are already that way, we might start seeing games that will scale depending on the hardware. So your wish might just come true.

    Still it will affect the game design because even if you have a high and a low, it still all has to be relevant at some point and it all has to fit. So PC suffers due to having so many configurations and consoles.

    I think we might start seeing more PC gamers coming to consoles that can't afford the high prices. Because we might start seeing more comparable graphics (while high-end PCs being the outliers) and as long as they're outliers, PC gamers will keep coming to consoles.

    This generation is going to be a revolution imo.
    To be honest that just sounds awful

    But alas the cards are in play (well almost) and time will tell.


  4. #28
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    What I find really cool is the fact there are two customized chips in the PS4. You have the APU and you have a secondary custom chip which is used for background stuff while you are gaming.

  5. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morganator View Post
    You know, considering the architecture of the consoles, I'd laugh my ass off if someone managed to port console exclusives over to PC. Then, I wouldn't have to buy a console and could stick with my already superior PC.
    If they made a console exclusive that took full advantage of the hardware, it would probably not port well to the PC, not until PC has about double the specs.

    That port would potentially fail due to the minor market segment it will target.

  6. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    If they made a console exclusive that took full advantage of the hardware, it would probably not port well to the PC, not until PC has about double the specs.
    PCs already more than double the PS4 specs. There are PC video cards that more than double the specs of the entire PS4 system with the exception of the amount of RAM, which would be more than doubled once you include the system RAM.

    Nvidia GTX 690
    385.5 Gbps memory bandwidth
    5.6 Tflops GPU

    PS4
    176 Gbps memory bandwidth
    2 Tflop from GPU and CPU combined.

    Add in an 8 core AMD FX8350 CPU running at 4+ GHZ and 12 or more gigs of system memory and you've easily more than doubled the PS4 using architecture that is very similar. Switch to an AMD 8000 series GPU when those are released and the hardware architecture differences will be virtually nill, but the PC will still be more than double the PS4 specs.

  7. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    PCs already more than double the PS4 specs. There are PC video cards that more than double the specs of the entire PS4 system with the exception of the amount of RAM, which would be more than doubled once you include the system RAM.
    Everybody keep this in mind. While Ps4 is awesome for the console space it will never compete with the PC space on performance. The fact that the UE4 demo they showed was pared back compared to the PC version is proof if this,

  8. #32
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    Honestly, i couldn`t care less about pc comparisons...its kinda boring when peeps keep harping on about `it won`t match pc`s for blah blah blah` my pc has ten grafix cards and will wipe the floor with the ps4...yawn....its a ****in console..i buy them because i just wanna play games..if i wanted to fanny about with ram/graphics cards, then i would sort my own pc out . but i don`t.

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  9. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    PCs already more than double the PS4 specs. There are PC video cards that more than double the specs of the entire PS4 system with the exception of the amount of RAM, which would be more than doubled once you include the system RAM.

    Nvidia GTX 690
    385.5 Gbps memory bandwidth
    5.6 Tflops GPU

    PS4
    176 Gbps memory bandwidth
    2 Tflop from GPU and CPU combined.

    Add in an 8 core AMD FX8350 CPU running at 4+ GHZ and 12 or more gigs of system memory and you've easily more than doubled the PS4 using architecture that is very similar. Switch to an AMD 8000 series GPU when those are released and the hardware architecture differences will be virtually nill, but the PC will still be more than double the PS4 specs.
    I see you've conveniently taken out the last part of my post.

    Even so, PC with the highest spec...that a small minority will possess, will not be effficient at using its power when the games are not there to utilize it...other than giving you a higher resolution, a higher frame rate.

    Having games specifically designed for an architecture should not be overlooked, we're going to see a closer race this time than the last. Not to mention, the actual graphical differences will be very comparable...we can talk about theoreticals (throwing the highest specs down) but the reality is that that segment is very minor and games utilized for that segment will sadly not happen until something better is out...and the cycle continues...how it is for PCs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabjabs View Post
    Everybody keep this in mind. While Ps4 is awesome for the console space it will never compete with the PC space on performance. The fact that the UE4 demo they showed was pared back compared to the PC version is proof if this,
    Really? How pared back was it?

  10. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    Nvidia GTX 690
    385.5 Gbps memory bandwidth
    5.6 Tflops GPU
    I honestly don't know why this thread has been allowed to stay open, its nothing but a **** size competition.

    Anyway, you want to know how much that card would cost me to buy where I live right now?
    $999.99 canadian. Thats with it's current $80 off sale.

    Will it drop in price eventually? Sure it will, but not until something better and more expensive comes along to take its place.

    Now seeing as how your choice in video card is nearing twice the cost of the entire ps4 console, I think its safe to say your argument is pretty much null.

  11. Likes MonkeyClaw wishes they had posted this first.
  12. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    I see you've conveniently taken out the last part of my post.
    I'm trying not to argue with people who make opinions based on very little fact and a whole lot of personal emotion and bias.

    Even so, PC with the highest spec...that a small minority will possess, will not be effficient at using its power when the games are not there to utilize it...other than giving you a higher resolution, a higher frame rate.
    It doesn't take a high end PC to do what the PS4 can do. An i5 equipped PC with an HD 7870 or better video card can do 95% of what the PS4 can do, costs less than $1,000 to build, and uses hardware that has already been out for around a year.

    Not to mention that a very high end PC today is a budget PC 3 years from now. You're totally failing to take into account evolution of PC hardware. Your PS4 is a fixed system that will be exactly the same in 6 years, the PC will double in power every 18 months (Moore's Law)

    Having games specifically designed for an architecture should not be overlooked,
    This was important when PC architecture was dramatically different from console architecture, but now that consoles and PCs are using virtually identical hardware the opposite is true. If anything, your console games are going to all be built on the PC first and then have features and options reduced to make them work on the weaker PCs and consoles.

    Not to mention, the actual graphical differences will be very comparable...we can talk about theoreticals (throwing the highest specs down) but the reality is that that segment is very minor and games utilized for that segment will sadly not happen until something better is out...and the cycle continues...how it is for PCs.
    You obviously don't game on PCs.

    Multicore CPUs and DX11 GPUs have been available for PCs for more than 4 years now. The PS4 does nothing to change these standards. Quite the opposite, it conforms to them. The PS4 is simply bringing consoles in line with existing PCs. A 2 year old gaming PC will support almost every single feature found in the PS4, and a current budget gaming PC can match or even exceed the PS4's hardware capabilities.


    What the PS4 is is a budget gaming PC. Nothing more. Far from being a 'small segment' of gaming PCs that can match it, the vast majority of the ones that are out there right now already do and almost all of them that are built over the course of the next 6 years will easily exceed it.


    Really? How pared back was it?
    Lower resolution, lower frame rate, lower levels of AA, fewer particles, reduced shader detail.... That's just for starters.


  13. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by shepard View Post
    I honestly don't know why this thread has been allowed to stay open, its nothing but a **** size competition.

    Anyway, you want to know how much that card would cost me to buy where I live right now?
    $999.99 canadian. Thats with it's current $80 off sale.
    So?

    How is price in any way relevant to my post? Does the fact that it's more expensive mean that it's not more than double the power of the entire PS4 system?


    Now seeing as how your choice in video card is nearing twice the cost of the entire ps4 console, I think its safe to say your argument is pretty much null.
    No, your comments about the price just show how insecure you are about the PS4's abilities.

    The PS4 IS A BUDGET GAMING PC. Nothing more. It uses off the shelf PC tech, mostly off the shelf PC parts, and it's using cheap tech that is basically already available. It has a few custom tweaks to tailor it to console purposes, but it's about 95% an off the shelf budget PC that you could build at home for less than $1,000 using current retail parts at retail prices.

    That's just the fact of it. Accept it and get over your insecurities. It will NEVER be a high end gaming PC, it will NEVER do anything that gaming PCs cannot do. It's a cheap gaming PC, and nothing more.




    If you want to talk about price, keep this in mind........

    You get what you pay for, and you're only going to be paying about $400 or so for the PS4.

  14. #37
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    There is no debating with this guy. All of his posts say the same thing "pc is better than consoles".

    Everyone knows the specs and the arguments against them, he just wants to make sure no one forgets the awesome specs of 1500 dollars worth of hardware versus 500.



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  15. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    No, your comments about the price just show how insecure you are about the PS4's abilities.
    Considering out of the two of us in this post, you sound like you are about to start stomping your feet and slamming the door to your bedroom. I think I'm less insecure than you are. Even your attempt to DIRECTLY compare pc specs to the ps4 leads you to "for less than $1,000 using current retail parts at retail prices." at best.

    Get that number down to the ps4 price and you finally have your argument, and even then, I doubt many console gamers are going to care.

    People have been comparing console to pc for years. Hasn't stopped the console market one bit.

  16. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisw26308 View Post
    There is no debating with this guy. All of his posts say the same thing "pc is better than consoles".

    Everyone knows the specs and the arguments against them, he just wants to make sure no one forgets the awesome specs of 1500 dollars worth of hardware versus 500.


    Everyone knows that?

    Then why do you have people like Sufi claiming you need a PC with more than twice the power of the PS4 to do the same as the PS4 can do?

    Why do you get people like shepard who want to argue over the price when the discussion was about capabilities?


    You get these comments because people either do not know, or do not want to admit that the PS4 is a budget gaming system with limited abilities. Plain and simple.


    What I find funny is that you're more bothered about my accurate responses than you are about silly and totally inaccurate claims like Sufi who thinks you need more than twice the power to do the same thing when the hardware is essentially the same. Seems you would prefer misguided disinformation combined with PS4 chest thumping to the truth, is that about right?



    Quote Originally Posted by shepard View Post
    Considering out of the two of us in this post, you sound like you are about to start stomping your feet and slamming the door to your bedroom. I think I'm less insecure than you are.

    Now that is funny.


    Would you mind explaining how the price has ANYTHING to do with my previous post about PC parts being more than twice the power of the PS4?

    Or, alternatively would you like to explain why you quoted only part of my post and are now trying to argue over something that is in no way related to what I said in that post?


    I can't wait to see your next evasive, topic switching response.



    Go ahead and show your security by explaining why you cherry picked a small part of my post and then tried to argue a point that had NOTHING do do with what I said. I REALLY want to hear why you did that, being all secure and everything.
    Last edited by Completely Average; 03-08-2013 at 15:20.

  17. #40
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    Premature? Who thinks sony ejaculating first is a mistake?

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  18. #41
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    Who really give a **** if the PC is better than the PS4? PC can be upgraded so it is incredibly pointless to even think about comparing them together. There are not many people who own a PC that is capable of doing what the PS4 will be able to do. The damn PC video card will cost as much as the entire PS4. And the differences between the best PC graphics and the PS4, are pretty slim right now.

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  20. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    I can't wait to see your next evasive, topic switching response.

    Go ahead and show your security by explaining why you cherry picked a small part of my post and then tried to argue a point that had NOTHING do do with what I said. I REALLY want to hear why you did that, being all secure and everything.
    What is there to explain? I didn't switch topics. You are comparing specs without comparing cost in most of your examples. And in the ones you have offered cost comparison in, you've yet to do so in a way that truly compares the two systems equally.

    I can go to any PC hardware site I want and find the most powerful gear and create my own system. Hell I can go to the origin site and price out a $6,000 rig (and afford it I might add) if I really wanted to. Whoopty-doo. Just because I can doesn't mean I'm not excited for the ps4.

    You can rant on with paragraphs trying to explain why PC is vastly superior to PS4 all you want. You are comparing two different markets/demographics of end users. You aren't the first to do it, and you won't be the last. Try not to think of yourself as the special little snowflake that broke the mold on a playstation forum by crushing dreams with "PC facts".
    Last edited by shepard; 03-08-2013 at 16:49.

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  22. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    PCs already more than double the PS4 specs. There are PC video cards that more than double the specs of the entire PS4 system with the exception of the amount of RAM, which would be more than doubled once you include the system RAM.

    Nvidia GTX 690
    385.5 Gbps memory bandwidth
    5.6 Tflops GPU

    PS4
    176 Gbps memory bandwidth
    2 Tflop from GPU and CPU combined.

    Add in an 8 core AMD FX8350 CPU running at 4+ GHZ and 12 or more gigs of system memory and you've easily more than doubled the PS4 using architecture that is very similar. Switch to an AMD 8000 series GPU when those are released and the hardware architecture differences will be virtually nill, but the PC will still be more than double the PS4 specs.
    Did you seriously just compare the PS4 to a $1000 video card that is years away from becoming a "standard"


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  24. #44
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    surely if sony added those sort of components then the ps4 would be very expensive and no one would buy it



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  25. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    It doesn't take a high end PC to do what the PS4 can do. An i5 equipped PC with an HD 7870 or better video card can do 95% of what the PS4 can do, costs less than $1,000 to build, and uses hardware that has already been out for around a year.
    LOL have you seen how crysis 3 runs? I double dare you to run it 60fps stable even on a titan ($1000 card). I have seen it dip to in the 20s. 7870 can barely manage above 40fps on AC3 ultra and its supposed to match KZ4, deep down and infamous visuals? These cards can't even achieve the PC hallmark 60fps 1080p on CURRENT gen games. Sufi is right, PC will never reach such console efficiency and the reasons are structural and by design.
    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    Not to mention that a very high end PC today is a budget PC 3 years from now. You're totally failing to take into account evolution of PC hardware.
    GTX580 is still not a part that a "budget PC" comes with.
    As it stands NOW, ps4 gives far more performance per dollar than any PC (provided it costs < $500).
    According to steam survey many PC gamers don't even match ps4 yet
    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    A 2 year old gaming PC will support almost every single feature found in the PS4, and a current budget gaming PC can match or even exceed the PS4's hardware capabilities.
    Proven incorrect by the likes of far cry 3 Ac3 and Crysis 3 (again all CURRENT gen games) Lets not even bring up what black magic SOny studios will bring 4 years from now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    Far from being a 'small segment' of gaming PCs that can match it, the vast majority of the ones that are out there right now already do and almost all of them that are built over the course of the next 6 years will easily exceed it.
    you don't say...



    That picture is UE4 running on early kits and so has a ways to go in terms of optimzation.
    Honestly you have no clue on what you are talking about. This demo was created/running on approximation hardware - not final dev/PS4 silicon. Also, the demo was created within a constrained timeframe for showing. Just for sh**s and giggles, the demo only used 27-29% of the AH resources - unoptimized. Before you ask, there is no link, I am the link.click
    You can tell because they didn't even texture some surfaces in the background. Current gen games on consoles have better textures compared to some of those surfaces. Its quite possible it was made for 4gb like all demos shown. increased ram certainly will help textures, so I say lets wait and see near launch
    Last edited by Itachi; 03-08-2013 at 17:48.

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  27. #46
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    Everyone needs to realize or remember that PCs aren't just for gaming. Their increased price is what allows for greater range of capabilities, such as recording, rendering, multitasking, etc. PCs are open platforms that can virtually do anything, whereas consoles are closed platforms focused on gaming. As a result they are much more efficient; you get greater game performance per dollar with a respectively powerful console (in this case the PS4). This will be the case for some time.

    Completely Average, no one here is trying to argue that the PS4 can actually compete, fully, with a gaming PC. If anyone does then they are an idiot and should be ignored. But let's all be honest here: a fair chunk of this is conjecture. We really should wait for the console's release and see what it can really do, not judge everything based on the fed footage from companies who's agenda is to make the product look as good as possible.
    Last edited by Rapture; 03-08-2013 at 18:45.

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  29. #47
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    Thank you for saving me time from explaining someone the concept of optimization when they obviously want to stay blind of it.

    I will still have to explain a little bit that he directed towards me later once I'm home.

  30. #48
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    I don't care about the prize/specs thing, yet I was a pc gamer once this is why I gave up;
    - disgusting fan noises ( It maybe not now, yet I don't care)
    - Clean it up once a month ( opening the case to clean everything for it to work smoother)
    - never ending upgrade needs ( since I can't afford $500 videocards, I choose $50 - 100 ones and they usually have 1 or 1.5 year lifespan for gaming. And this is just for videocards , I am not talking about rams, hdds, gamepads.)
    - checking if my pc can run it ( before any game that came out, I need to check from internet if it my pc is enough for recommended specs or not.. This was simply sorrowful if you are not rich, since a nice configurated pc costs like 3 next gen consoles )
    - never ending installings ( yes, I am tired of all those installings, not just for games, back that time when I use MS XP, it crashes all the time , so my games...)
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  31. #49
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    Sony is doing everything right with the PS4. Not that the cell processor was really a mistake in the PS3, it just led to lazy developers being lazy. Apparently innovation is a mistake these days.

    With the PS4 having PC like architecture there will be no excuses this time around for developers to be lazy porting games on to the PS4.


  32. #50
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    UE4 was not apples to apples. Some alleged insider claimed that it was made in a hurry to get up and ready for the PS4 reveal and they were not developing on more recent devkits. Even if the demo was never optimized in the first place for any hardware (PC version), it's just a technical demo and is not indicative of anything.

    PC games are never optimized well and this makes all the difference in the world.

    Shadowfall, according to statements, was made with the older devkits that had 1.5GB of workable memory for developers (when the OS was removed from the memory total)- instead of the 8GB of GDDR5 Sony said would be in retail units. It already looks as good as Crysis 3 on PC does roughly, even in its clearly non-final state.

    Further, when the 360 launched there were graphics cards with much more grunt than Xenos. Let alone the RSX that shipped with the PS3 a year later.

    Yes, PC's always out muscle consoles and this gap grows from slightly noticeable to glaring as the years go on. But that's just how it is. But don't make this out to be some terrible thing and that the PS4 is a weak piece of crap.

    It exists to do one thing really well: gaming. It is engineered and optimized for this task and for a budget the masses are willing to shell out for a pure entertainment device.

    Further, as mentioned, the average PC gamer doesn't have GTX680's and overclocked Intel Quads. The average gamer has a rig considerably less powerful.


    -shrugs-

    Consoles are what they are, and given the normal asking price they're a hell of a bargain. I mean really I look at the PS4 (and PS3) as a "Blu-Ray Player, Entertainment Center and gaming device" and for the money it is a HELL of a deal. What's not to like?

    I don't get all the war drum banging by console and PC players.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 03-09-2013 at 00:45.
    Awesome techno and dubstep! Visit: http://Solkrieg.com
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  33. Likes Rapture, Sufi, Itachi wishes they had posted this first.

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