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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttech10 View Post
    Let's not be so quick to assume that just because a developer has more money that it will show with the quality of their games. Just looking at it, sure you would think that more money would mean better games, but in the world of money it doesn't always work like that.

    I don't even really understand why the hatred for used games came about the last few years. It's been in existence for generations yet just because certain publishers/developers think their game sold poorly due to used games, we now have this debate. I remember when the Quantic Dream CEO complained. If you want to keep customers buying your games as new, give them replay value. This doesn't mean add a terrible multiplayer aspect, but don't make a game so every time you replay it you see more and more how bad it is (plot holes in that game are facepalm worthy). Instead of punishing players who cannot afford new games, make it so the games are so fun that not as many people are selling them after one playthrough.

    Now let me say, I buy all games new, but I realize people do buy used for various reasons and buying new isn't always a possibility. Banning used games is also stopping you from letting a friend borrow the game or bringing it over to a friends house. It hurts the gamers and rewards the guys sitting behind a mahogany desk.
    Did the quality of multiplayer in games go up because of online passes? Nope. It's going to be the same story. The quality of games will stay the same and devs pockets get fatter.




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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ps3freak18 View Post
    Did the quality of multiplayer in games go up because of online passes? Nope. It's going to be the same story. The quality of games will stay the same and devs pockets get fatter.
    Quality is a hard thing to measure. Do those games get more updates, downloadable content, patches, new game modes? Do they get better server support? I don't know...and I bet you have no definative answer either unless you have some proof to back it up? You just make a bold blanket statement as if it is fact when you have done nothing to support your claim.

    Now you could be right. Maybe that money just goes back to those fat cats. But what about the smaller companies? What about the studios hanging on by a thread? For every EA and Activision there is a small studio too...if not more. I would love for their pockets to get fatter....why...because it will help them stay independent in an industry that is very capital intensive. They also would have money to hire more staff...to work on more games or improve the ones they have. Sure not all that money goes back into hiring more devs, building better game engines, giving more game support after launch, and making more overall games or increasing some theoretical quality measure that you make up...but either way that money is going somewhere. I would rather it go to the developers who will put it to much better use even if they don't reinvest all of it than to Gamestop or some other used game seller. I'm pretty sure they haven't spent one dime making a game for you to enjoy....have they increased the "quality" of any of the games you play? They may make it cheaper but if they didn't exist do you not think the market for game prices wouldn't change drastically to meet the demand for games?

    Look I'm not trying to be a $#@! but I wouldn't shed a tear if there was never a used game again. Granted I want to be able to play my game on any console I choose in my house but that is something that can be addressed separately from the resale of used games. I know my opinion is the minority. Perhaps its because I'm in the minority of gamers in that I have a generous income but I don't feel it unethical pay the developers for their creative content as opposed to gamestop.

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  4. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttech10 View Post
    I don't know. One thing that gets me with developers/publishers is that they still charge the same price for a DD version as they do a physical copy. That's one way to cut down on used game sales, make your DD version a little cheaper so you lessen the amount of used games on the market.

    I get what you're saying though, buy new and support the people who made the game. The problem though is if we force everyone to buy new, we have gamers that cannot afford new games so instead of being able to enjoy three different games they only get one. It may not be thought of as fair for the developer/publisher, but look at every other product out there that people buy and sell as used. Books, consoles, phones, computers, vehicles, homes, clothes, appliances, etc. It's not something new and it's not like the used sales aspect doesn't happen in every other consumer category.

    What's funny are all these developers/publishers who dislike places like GameStop and Best Buy for their used games sales, but you always see them creating special content for those same places. If they were being hurt so bad by those places I don't think they would make those sorts of deals. I want these developers/publishers to be supported by new sales, but I just don't think used sales are the doom and gloom they talk about it being.
    Problem is that used books, consoles, phones, computers, vehicles, homes, clothes, appliances, etc...... wear out with use. As long as a game disc isn't scratched to the point the data isn't readable, the console will keep seeing the same pristine runnable code as a brand new game disc. It doesn't "wear out".

    It's like the everlasting gobstopper. If it never degrades, it can be passed on to others and the guys that programmed it don't get paid. Now if they got a nice cut from Gamestop on each used disc transaction, then maybe they wouldn't care. But as it stands, the devs lose big time.

    And to those that call them greedy? You are just as guilty of being greedy by not buying them new in the first place. They paid the programmers and artists BEFORE they sold a single game. If the game doesn't sell enough because some cheapskates decided to get the game only after it's on the used market first, the devs won't recoup the money they already paid out. A lot of devs have gone out of business or have been dropped by the big publishers because of things like this... including Sony themselves.

    I always hear the gamer's entitlement mentality that it's the devs and publishers that should take the financial hit. Who cares if they go under, I want my cheap used games! They are the same people that get mad that because they pay for internet, why should they have to pay to play online? Because they can charge for it and because they like to make money just like the rest of the us. I'd love to go into their workplace and start piling on a ton of new job responsibilities. And when they say they want more pay I'll tell them "I already pay you enough to work for me, why should I pay more on top of that? I shouldn't have to pay any more money".

    It reminds me of union workers who complain they should be getting what they consider "fair living wages" and yet turn around and look for the cheapest price on houses, goods and services without concern as to if THEY are giving THOSE people a fair price that will pay for fair living wages. Hypocrites!

    I like Steam in that it allows you to buy games on the cheap AND allows you to have them on multiple computers. Maybe that's a good place to start for the console and game makers!
    Last edited by GreatSpaceKoaster; 03-08-2013 at 16:12.

  5. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by INFAMOUS8 View Post
    This is stupid.

    It doesn't affect you since you don't do the whole trade/buy-used thing.

    It actually gives developers more money.... which means bigger budgets for the games YOU play.

    Bigger budgets = less glitches, better graphics, longer campaigns, etc.



    I'm looking forward to DD. But it's going to take another 5-10 years. A lot of places still have bandwidth caps. For example: A family of 4 only gets 100GB of download/upload per month..... it's not reasonable to expect someone from that family to download a 50GB game like Killzone:Shadowfall and use up half their bandwidth for one game.

    When unlimited high-speed internet is widespread, DD will be the most popular form of buying games. No more lining up at Midnight launches. No more middleman taking publishers/developers money.

    It will be good for the industry. Although, with Gakai being a big part of SCE now.... we might even see streaming become the next big thing. Netflix for games.
    Haha, I see you're one of the reasons the gaming industry is a damn joke now. I mean seriously... are you kidding me? You actually believe what you're saying. It doesn't matter that I haven't bought a used game is almost 10 years, but it is an option. Options are things that we as consumers should crave to have again. I don't give a damn about Sony's or some other 3rd parties money. They don't care about the quality or content when 50% of games today are rushed.

    Games are going to sell based on the supply and demand business. If someone feels it is a good buy, they'll buy it. Call of Duty is making Activision zillions of dollars. I still see more glitches, rushed products coming out of their 2-year development cycle as ever. Just like the online pass. That $#@! ain't needed. It's a money grab pure and simple. It, again, wasn't a big deal till Gamestop starting making bank off the second-hand market that things became a problem.

    When you accept things like they are, these big businesses are going to take advantage of you. Look at what he just wrote here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    What is the difference between a used game and a game that I own, that I play on one console in the living room with my PSN id, and then allow my child to play on a second console in our game room using their own PSN id?

    I'm NOT going to start buying two copies of a game just so my kid can play the same game on their console with their PSN id. I'll just not buy a PS4 at all and switch to PC gaming exclusively if that happens.
    That $#@! happens as we speak! And he didn't even buy a used game. So don't say its "Stupid" because you're [INFAMOUS8] the one falling for their trap.


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  6. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedOrb_Collector View Post
    Basically, greed is a terrible thing.

    It clouds your judgement.
    Did anyone else read that in a superman voice

  7. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duff-MaN_ View Post
    Did anyone else read that in a superman voice
    Yoda for me.

    Look, people are just assuming that DRM means more money for developers. I think it will mean that there are fewer gamers and fewer sales. A lot of people sell used games and used systems to buy new ones. It is a cycle that was once an integral part of growing the industry to the size it is today.

    DRM is a big gamble. It is a senseless gamble. It will turn people away from making the big $60 game purchases and make them flee to $5 casual games and free to play for the majority of their gaming content.

    As for me? I'd rather someone piss on my grave than have games that are DRM tethered to online and a console. After all, these consoles do come and they go. Game makers do eventually take down their servers to move on to other products (Metal Gear Online, need I say more?).. If DRM is the future, then I will simply buy everything on Steam from now on, since the PC is just one big constantly evolving game machine in itself rather than a completely different one every six or seven years.

    The more there are of me, the less the console sales and less the software sales there will be. Welcome to Gaming AIDS.
    Last edited by Lefein; 03-08-2013 at 14:35.

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  9. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by INFAMOUS8 View Post
    Devs making more money = Devs not going out of business = More Games for us to play


    Either way you look at it... Devs getting more money, and customers still paying the same price.... it's a win-win for gamers and developers.

    Why should Wal-mart or Best Buy get such a huge cut of our money when they put nothing into making the game.

    Let's pretend that everything is DD only for a moment.

    I can't take my DD game that I think is awesome to a friends house to show him how awesome it is, and my friend isn't going to spend money and time downloading a game without having played it first.

    End result is a lost sale. They could have sold another copy of the game to my friend, but since I can't take my copy over to my friends house to play it, he's not going to buy it.

    Lost sales = less money for devs = less games for you.




    Or, as I have stated before, I have a child who has their own consoles and their own user accounts. If I cannot share my games with my own child then I'm not spending money of the game or the console. I'll switch to the PC instead. How many parents do you know that want to have to buy 2 or more copies of the same game so multiple people in the house can play them?

  10. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    Let's pretend that everything is DD only for a moment.

    I can't take my DD game that I think is awesome to a friends house to show him how awesome it is, and my friend isn't going to spend money and time downloading a game without having played it first.

    End result is a lost sale. They could have sold another copy of the game to my friend, but since I can't take my copy over to my friends house to play it, he's not going to buy it.

    Lost sales = less money for devs = less games for you.

    (That could be where this whole Spectate/Streaming and Try before you buy stuff comes in handy! with PS4.. regarding the friends bit anyway)

    Never-the less i agree with you. And i hope Sony and Microsoft tread carefully, combating used games is a double edged sword. Some gain, but overall i see Gamers lose.

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    Well once they go to all DDs someday, it will be the end of used games anyways. We already live with it when it comes to mobile apps today.

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  13. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    Well once they go to all DDs someday, it will be the end of used games anyways. We already live with it when it comes to mobile apps today.
    I agree. But people on here are cheap. Lets be honest. Most here would gladly steal it for free by pirating it if they could. (Not all but most). All in all it wouldn't kill the gaming industry if they went the steam route. Personally I wouldn't mind registering a console and my games if I could play them on all my devices. Sure some would leave....but most would just $#@! and then still play. Since more of the procedes would go to those that rightfully deserve it they wouldn't necessarily have to sell millions to make more money. Also what if they decided that since there would be no used game industry that would allow them to release games at a more feasible price point since they wouldn't have their game sales cannibalized? Everyone $#@!es about game prices going up but don't realize they are a big cause of it themselves by their purchasing habits.

    Edit: Serious question....am I the only one out there that doesn't illegaly steal movies, music, and purchases new games and not used? I get the feeling sometimes that I pay more because others abuse the system...at least with music and movies..I know used games are legal.
    Last edited by davin_g; 03-09-2013 at 07:17.

  14. #36
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    DD is always a pain in the ass. Takes up more space then it should eventually maxing it out. No matter how large they make it everyone will be up to the max. I'd rather support local stores anyway, not help to possibly put them out of business along with the people who work at them.

  15. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by davin_g View Post
    I agree. But people on here are cheap. Lets be honest. Most here would gladly steal it for free by pirating it if they could. (Not all but most). All in all it wouldn't kill the gaming industry if they went the steam route. Personally I wouldn't mind registering a console and my games if I could play them on all my devices. Sure some would leave....but most would just $#@! and then still play. Since more of the procedes would go to those that rightfully deserve it they wouldn't necessarily have to sell millions to make more money. Also what if they decided that since there would be no used game industry that would allow them to release games at a more feasible price point since they wouldn't have their game sales cannibalized? Everyone $#@!es about game prices going up but don't realize they are a big cause of it themselves by their purchasing habits.

    Edit: Serious question....am I the only one out there that doesn't illegaly steal movies, music, and purchases new games and not used? I get the feeling sometimes that I pay more because others abuse the system...at least with music and movies..I know used games are legal.
    Lol. Talk about making blanket statements. You call me out as passing my statement off as fact yet you call out most members on here as cheap and pirates. Well hate to tell you. Your not the only one that doesn't illegally obtain media. If I can't afford it I don't get it.

    In reference to your reply earlier. Sorry i didn't put IMO in my post. The games TO ME, have not seen a jump in immersion or creativity since online passes. Nothing new that I've seen has been brought to the table. Just the same tack on MP that games get these days.




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