Avalanche Studios exec: 'PS4 will out-power most PCs for years to come'

[chrisw26308]

Oh shit, the PC elitist are gonna freak over this one, lol..

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

[GreatSpaceKoaster]

We've heard this before. Just like when they say we are using 100% of the system's power. Wha wha whaaaaaaa! I do like Just Cause 2's large and varied world. It will now be larger and more detailed I'm sure with #3. Fun times!

[Fijiandoce]

man, whats with the buzzkill this generation?

My video card does fine with 1GB GDDR5 RAM. 8GB in a console is an insane amount of memory dedicated to video. unified to boot. i can see where the dev is coming from when he refers to "out powering most PC's"

this thing is designed to make a pretty picture, not run a pretty OS

[Serinous]

i want to see a new Just Cause on the PS4

[Bigdoggy]

Honestly, it doesn't even cost that much to build a PC of that caliber. This article is a little retarded anyway... "out-power most PCs for years to come"... what PCs? Certainly not high end ones.

You're missing the entire point of the article which is that they are excited about the PS4. What they say obviously isn't true to a certain extent, they are just excited. Once the PS4 release it will in fact be more powerful then most PC's, they said most not all. In fact most PC gamers are not busting out high end GPU's so when he says most he is right in a way, but he is wrong when saying for many years to come. That's called over-exaggeration

[Completely Average]

I'm not the only one that thought that. I don't have a tirade against you. I have a tirade against vagueness.

If we're going to not be vague then let's be very clear instead.


Under no circumstances will it ever be possible to make a PS4 game that uses 8GB of memory for graphics. EVER.

The 8GB in the PS4 is SHARED memory, and you will always have to have a game engine sitting in that memory. Game engines require a LOT more memory than graphics do which is why PCs will have 2-12 times more system memory than graphics memory. Generally speaking most games use a 2:1 ratio. You will need 2GB of system memory for every 1GB of graphics memory used.

It's all well and good to say that in theory the PS4 can use 8GB for video memory, but the reality of it is that it really can't. For retail games at least, the vast majority of RAM will always be used by the game engine instead.

[Bigdoggy]

Of course it wont use 8GB, I believe it's more around 2 to 3gb of GDDR5 for the GPU the rest spread out anywhere else. I've noticed a lot of hardcore PC people including here in the forums mistaken power for resolution. Games will always look better on the PC because the resolution is much greater on a smaller screen. Also, because the tech is constantly advancing. But like I said before, anyone buying a $999 GPU is wasting it since that type of GPU isn't meant for gaming, it's made for rendering and the likes but of course can still be used for gaming.

2 to 3gb of GDDR5 memory on a GPU is very good. didn't you noticed the hault in GPU's? The reason for the slowdown is because Nvidia and AMD were getting in the habit of making so many GPU's that they were competing with themselves. It was rather funny.

It's also not a mystery that console games in terms of efficiency and effort are a bit better because the games for hte consoles are more refined Vs. the PC. Even though the games look better on the PC, I give that mainly to the resolution, not the actual graphics because the games are much more clear on the PC, There is a difference.

[chrisw26308]

The 8 gigs will certainly help a game look and run better.

Pop in should be nonexistent, detail will be unreal.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

[BoyBettaKnow]

As mentioned above, it'll probably be a 50/50 split i'd imagine. but still, what did the PS3 have, 512mb? 4GB is certainly going to be lovely for them.

When me and my friend were watching the presentation we were impressed about it having 8GB unified memory but we are still waiting to see what the games look like. Only chance we will get to really see how the PS4 compares to PC is when a game like Watchdogs is released.

[Coconut_Crunch]

I don't even think the PS3 had 512, it was like 256 & 256 and it wasn't shared. At least now it's 8GB and they can split it however they like. I just want to see the games though, bring me the games and I'll be happy.

[PeanutButterMunky]

If we're going to not be vague then let's be very clear instead.


Under no circumstances will it ever be possible to make a PS4 game that uses 8GB of memory for graphics. EVER.

The 8GB in the PS4 is SHARED memory, and you will always have to have a game engine sitting in that memory. Game engines require a LOT more memory than graphics do which is why PCs will have 2-12 times more system memory than graphics memory. Generally speaking most games use a 2:1 ratio. You will need 2GB of system memory for every 1GB of graphics memory used.

It's all well and good to say that in theory the PS4 can use 8GB for video memory, but the reality of it is that it really can't. For retail games at least, the vast majority of RAM will always be used by the game engine instead.

Yes... we all know that... thank you for the profound enlightenment.

[radgamer420]

Initially it will propably be more powerful than most PCs but for years to come? Nope. PC hardware is always evolving due to being upgradable.

[Sufi]

Of course it wont use 8GB, I believe it's more around 2 to 3gb of GDDR5 for the GPU the rest spread out anywhere else. I've noticed a lot of hardcore PC people including here in the forums mistaken power for resolution. Games will always look better on the PC because the resolution is much greater on a smaller screen. Also, because the tech is constantly advancing. But like I said before, anyone buying a $999 GPU is wasting it since that type of GPU isn't meant for gaming, it's made for rendering and the likes but of course can still be used for gaming.

2 to 3gb of GDDR5 memory on a GPU is very good. didn't you noticed the hault in GPU's? The reason for the slowdown is because Nvidia and AMD were getting in the habit of making so many GPU's that they were competing with themselves. It was rather funny.

It's also not a mystery that console games in terms of efficiency and effort are a bit better because the games for hte consoles are more refined Vs. the PC. Even though the games look better on the PC, I give that mainly to the resolution, not the actual graphics because the games are much more clear on the PC, There is a difference.

As mentioned above, it'll probably be a 50/50 split i'd imagine. but still, what did the PS3 have, 512mb? 4GB is certainly going to be lovely for them.

When me and my friend were watching the presentation we were impressed about it having 8GB unified memory but we are still waiting to see what the games look like. Only chance we will get to really see how the PS4 compares to PC is when a game like Watchdogs is released.

Pretty sure it's not split RAM. And if there is a split, it's a soft one that every developer puts depending on how much CPU vs GPU power they need. I highly doubt a CPU would need more than GPU as far as RAM is concerned. We learned that this generation.

BBK, I don't think we will find out the true power until a year or two later...right now the games are not specifically optimized for a console, much less a console with more than 4GB RAM...they were likely working off what they thought the specs were. Not enough time and probably will take more money just to optimize it. I would wait for the sequel to compare.

But even in the beginning, they should be comparable.

Why?

8GB RAM on a console means that almost all of it is available for gaming, whereas it's more of a statistics game on PC. i.e. If I used up 4GB of RAM on a PC game to run decently, how many people will be able to buy it?

So the soft limit is guided by the average gamer or how much market penetration they want. Not the same when it comes to consoles, you can do whatever you want on there. That's why even a simple thing that's not standardized such as a HDD can make big problems for console developers because it can mean very different results and what they end up settling for vs what they can actually achieve.

It doesn't matter that PCs are evolving. The average PC gamer will likely see better-looking games on PS4 for a good chunk of next-gen and likely Xbox once it's revealed and we know how powerful it is. So while PC games will ultimately look better in the end as it's obviouslys since it is upgradeable, the average user will likely end up seeing very comparable graphics by the end of this generation.

I must sound like a broken record but I've been saying this for years now. The way these things are set up, as generations pass by, consoles will keep getting closer and closer. Next generation they are going to surpass what the normal user will see on their PC screens. This generation, they should have seen at least comparable results (minus resolution and extra effects). Generation before that you couldn't run most PC games on consoles, let alone compare them.

We've seen the pattern for over a decade now.

If we're going to not be vague then let's be very clear instead.


Under no circumstances will it ever be possible to make a PS4 game that uses 8GB of memory for graphics. EVER.

The 8GB in the PS4 is SHARED memory, and you will always have to have a game engine sitting in that memory. Game engines require a LOT more memory than graphics do which is why PCs will have 2-12 times more system memory than graphics memory. Generally speaking most games use a 2:1 ratio. You will need 2GB of system memory for every 1GB of graphics memory used.

It's all well and good to say that in theory the PS4 can use 8GB for video memory, but the reality of it is that it really can't. For retail games at least, the vast majority of RAM will always be used by the game engine instead.

Not enclined to believe that, we'd like some examples.

If GPU needed less RAM than CPU then we would've seen PS3 dominate in every game. Just not the case.

Please elaborate.

[baho]

"PS4 will out-power most PCs for years to come" is true.

However, if we are talking about GAMING PCs, the PS4 is comparable to a mid range gaming PC. High end gaming PCs completely and utterly destroy the PS4.

[Sufi]

"PS4 will out-power most PCs for years to come" is true.

However, if we are talking about GAMING PCs, the PS4 is comparable to a mid range gaming PC. High end gaming PCs completely and utterly destroy the PS4.

In theory.

The earlier games will be very comparable. i.e. right now the first game that's not even optimized for the system yet, Killzone, looks very comparable to the best-looking PC games. Unless you disagree?

So in stats, it does destroy, in theory it will eventually happen but not right away.

[BoyBettaKnow]

Consoles won't keep closing the gap as you say they will. They get closer when a new console is released yeah, but a few months later when a new card is released the gap is opened again and then it just gets bigger and bigger from there on. Consoles are progressing but so is PC's

I do think the guy was over-reacting somewhat. The PS4 will be a beast in the console space, no denying that. But if you want to compare it to all gaming machines, it won't be better than a High end gaming PC, not even on day 1.

I do agree, it will take a little longer than the launch games to compare them but i think from the get go it will give us a rough idea of where they are at. Albeit crudely. Watchdogs running on PS4 vs Watchdogs running on a PC at Max settings and same resolution is one of the only launch games i can think that will be on both systems

[Completely Average]

The 8 gigs will certainly help a game look and run better.

Pop in should be nonexistent,

Pop-in has nothing to do with the amount of RAM you have available. When it comes to pop-in or pop-up, that's much more of a bandwidth issue than an issue with the amount.

And getting into bandwidth will open up a whole new can of worms, because quite frankly the PS4 fairly limited on that account.

[Sufi]

Consoles won't keep closing the gap as you say they will. They get closer when a new console is released yeah, but a few months later when a new card is released the gap is opened again and then it just gets bigger and bigger from there on. Consoles are progressing but so is PC's

You’re right but I’m also right, we’re arguing back and forth because we’re talking about different things.
You’re comparing PS4 to the latest PC hardware, which will definitely have more gap as we time passes.

The problem there is that if the PC hardware will be utilized to its fullest, which will not happen. So the PS4 games, while not as good, will still be more comparable than last generation. That’s where consoles are catching up.

PC’s evolving nature will always give it that edge but that edge will get closer every time. Reason being that PC is evolving faster than gamers likely adopting that technology or we would have seen next-generation years ago.

That edge will be closer but PCs, as always, will overcome it due to obvious reasons…but that gap will keep getting closer and longer.

Though that’s not even what I’m arguing about. I’m actually arguing that the average gamer will likely see better results on PS4 than the PC because, again, the average gamer isn’t upgrading as frequently or as much as hardcore gamers.

That’s the problem PC will face with its rapidly moving cycles.

In other words, this generation most consoles ended up being low settings compared to the best-looking PC games, at full details everything, that minority of the PC gamers could play. This time around it might be medium to high (but still not full) but likely to the end of this generation.

The only reason I’m pushing it from med to as far as high is because of the RAM available…if it were 4GB, I’d say “maybe” medium settings. I don’t think we’re going to see as much of a noticeable difference between the highest PC with a PS4 port throughout its generation.

I’m sure the casuals this generation didn’t see a huge difference between PC and console versions. What I’m saying is that, forget the console gamers that already don’t know the differences, I’m saying that most PC gamers will likely not see a huge difference between what they see on their screens as far as PC vs PS4, again because they won't own the best hardware to run it. The differences will be there for us but they will likely be negligible.

I do think the guy was over-reacting somewhat. The PS4 will be a beast in the console space, no denying that. But if you want to compare it to all gaming machines, it won't be better than a High end gaming PC, not even on day 1.

That depends on the developers; it is possible that it might have better-looking games than the best PC games, for a little while, it all depends on how many developers can put out the games utilizing the console right away.

Looking at Killzone, a game that was optimized for lower RAM, again I state this, is very comparable, in fact, I would like to know a PC game that trumps this game completely in graphics. But of course, in a year’s time, something probably will.

I do agree, it will take a little longer than the launch games to compare them but i think from the get go it will give us a rough idea of where they are at. Albeit crudely. Watchdogs running on PS4 vs Watchdogs running on a PC at Max settings and same resolution is one of the only launch games i can think that will be on both systems

That’s likely because we don’t know of many PS4 games yet. It’s too early to see actual results. A launch game will likely not be the best indication either.

But a launch game roughly having similar graphical capabilities shows my point more than the opposing ones. We didn’t even have this much last time around. The current consoles were obsolete the moment they launched.

[coolguy]

i think they will have more power for them to work with on the ps4. this is good news

[Rekmon]

Are you sure? I have 2 1GB cards and my computer always recognises having 2GB video memory...

Yes, I'm positive. In SLI or Xfire both cards will maintain the exact same amount of memory usage at the same time. If you xfire two cards with different ram amounts they are limited to the bottom amount.

Indeed it is! 2x SLI! Man that computer would churn through games. I've seen my friends 690 play some games I could only imagine what two Titans would run like.

Yeah, it's a pretty badass setup. Too rich for my blood...but at least I worked a deal out for him

The 690 is still the best GPU out at the moment I think but the Titan is the best single card GPU isn't it? But saying that I could've swore the Titan had two 680 chips inside of it. Unless its equal to the power of 2 680s, but then isn't that where the 690 comes in cause it was the first dual-chip card from Nvidia where they used 2 680 chips rather than a 580+570 for the 590.

This is all from memory so I'm not sure how much of it, if any is right. Slow day at work so I may read up on it now

690 is a dual gpu card, or SLI in a card, Titan is single gpu. A 690 will still outrun a single Titan, but not Titans in SLI.

Yeah, you're right actually.

BBK. Tapatalking.

I was kidding around, sort of. I saw what you meant, but if it wasn't for your after posts I would have read it the way I said <shrugs>

[BoyBettaKnow]

You’re right but I’m also right, we’re arguing back and forth because we’re talking about different things.
You’re comparing PS4 to the latest PC hardware, which will definitely have more gap as we time passes.

The problem there is that if the PC hardware will be utilized to its fullest, which will not happen. So the PS4 games, while not as good, will still be more comparable than last generation. That’s where consoles are catching up.

PC’s evolving nature will always give it that edge but that edge will get closer every time. Reason being that PC is evolving faster than gamers likely adopting that technology or we would have seen next-generation years ago.

That edge will be closer but PCs, as always, will overcome it due to obvious reasons…but that gap will keep getting closer and longer.

Though that’s not even what I’m arguing about. I’m actually arguing that the average gamer will likely see better results on PS4 than the PC because, again, the average gamer isn’t upgrading as frequently or as much as hardcore gamers.

That’s the problem PC will face with its rapidly moving cycles.

In other words, this generation most consoles ended up being low settings compared to the best-looking PC games, at full details everything, that minority of the PC gamers could play. This time around it might be medium to high (but still not full) but likely to the end of this generation.

The only reason I’m pushing it from med to as far as high is because of the RAM available…if it were 4GB, I’d say “maybe” medium settings. I don’t think we’re going to see as much of a noticeable difference between the highest PC with a PS4 port throughout its generation.

I’m sure the casuals this generation didn’t see a huge difference between PC and console versions. What I’m saying is that, forget the console gamers that already don’t know the differences, I’m saying that most PC gamers will likely not see a huge difference between what they see on their screens as far as PC vs PS4, again because they won't own the best hardware to run it. The differences will be there for us but they will likely be negligible.


That depends on the developers; it is possible that it might have better-looking games than the best PC games, for a little while, it all depends on how many developers can put out the games utilizing the console right away.

Looking at Killzone, a game that was optimized for lower RAM, again I state this, is very comparable, in fact, I would like to know a PC game that trumps this game completely in graphics. But of course, in a year’s time, something probably will.

That’s likely because we don’t know of many PS4 games yet. It’s too early to see actual results. A launch game will likely not be the best indication either.

But a launch game roughly having similar graphical capabilities shows my point more than the opposing ones. We didn’t even have this much last time around. The current consoles were obsolete the moment they launched.

I do see your point but i do feel next generation will be more of the same of this one. Obviously console have the advantage that they are all the same so developers can get the best out of the hardware in it, PC's will never have this advantage but i do feel as if the sheer brute power of a PC makes up for this that gives PC gamers the options for higher resolutions, frame-rates and different/higher types of AA.

I'm aware the first batch of games on the PS4 won't be a indication of how powerful the hardware is but it would give us our first comparison and if anything it should be relatively easy to compare them. The PS4 isn't going to be using any unfamiliar technology so developers should be getting good results with it right away. I still think you are right about it being a certain amount of time before the peak is shown though. But it would give us something to at least compare.


Do you mean KZ2 or KZ:SF? If it was KZ2 i can remember people trying to compare KZ2 to Crysis and while KZ2 did, and probably still does look good, it wasn't a match for the detail in Crysis. I'd go as far as to say a console game is yet to match the original Crysis - Naughty Dog have come close with Uncharted (don't care what anyone says, to me the Uncharted franchise is the pinnacle of console graphics) but even then when you consider the scope of Crysis I still think it is in a league of it's own.

And if you wasn't on about KZ2 my last paragraph was a waste of time

This time next year we may very well have a few answers to our speculation and questions. One thing i know for sure, the PS4 is going to be a damn good console, i just don't think it will be the beast (relative to a PC) that some are hoping for. If you aren't a PC gamer and you want eye candy, Sony looks like the route to go. At least until MS show their offerings.

Yes, I'm positive. In SLI or Xfire both cards will maintain the exact same amount of memory usage at the same time. If you xfire two cards with different ram amounts they are limited to the bottom amount.

But if that is the case why does my computer show i have 2GB video memory when I only have 2 1GB cards. Going by what you are saying my computer should only shoq 1GB, shouldn't it?

Yeah, it's a pretty badass setup. Too rich for my blood...but at least I worked a deal out for him

I bet, is he running a really high resolution? My friend with the 690 is only running at 1920x1080 but we are frame-whores so he wanted to put his 120Hz monitor to good use. I know i have a serious case of PC envy right now

690 is a dual gpu card, or SLI in a card, Titan is single gpu. A 690 will still outrun a single Titan, but not Titans in SLI.

Yeah i thought it was something like that. So is the titan the fastest single card GPU now then? Wonder how long ATI will take to release their counterpart. I don't think they beat the 680 for fastest single GPU unless the 7970 did it? I'd probably rather have the titan over the 690. I think it is supposed to run much quieter, use less energy and stay cooler than the 690

I was kidding around, sort of. I saw what you meant, but if it wasn't for your after posts I would have read it the way I said <shrugs>

Glad you corrected me, i'd still be making the mistake otherwise.

[baho]

In theory.

The earlier games will be very comparable. i.e. right now the first game that's not even optimized for the system yet, Killzone, looks very comparable to the best-looking PC games. Unless you disagree?

So in stats, it does destroy, in theory it will eventually happen but not right away.

Of course i agree but your argument is flawed. There is not ONE single company in this world that targeted their game for high end gaming PC's. Not even crysis3! That's what people like to call now a "cross-generational" title. Can you imagine what a game would like like if it were targeted for a SLI Titan x Titan?! That's NINE teraflops of performance! Five times more than what the PS4 has. That shit would look absolutely insaaaaane!

Even that UE4 elemental demo that was targeted for ONE gtx680 last year took a MAJOR hit in the looks department when ported to the PS4. Maybe a rush port, who knows. Fact is, at the moment, UE4 on PS4 looked way (not exaggerating) worse than UE4 on a pc with one gtx680 last year.

Let's not kid ourselves, just because there isn't a market targeted exclusively for high end gaming PC's doesn't means that those machines don't smoke the PS4. And they do it with ease, too much ease maybe.

[Sufi]

I do see your point but i do feel next generation will be more of the same of this one. Obviously console have the advantage that they are all the same so developers can get the best out of the hardware in it, PC's will never have this advantage but i do feel as if the sheer brute power of a PC makes up for this that gives PC gamers the options for higher resolutions, frame-rates and different/higher types of AA.

I’m not saying you’re wrong, well slightly lol. Yes, that trend will always be there but where it’s changing is that PCs will take longer to show the results (even if they evolve at the same pace, as they have been).
Where my argument comes in is that the people who aren’t keeping up with the latest hardware, they might still have a really good rig but will start to see that PS4 has comparable results.

I'm aware the first batch of games on the PS4 won't be a indication of how powerful the hardware is but it would give us our first comparison and if anything it should be relatively easy to compare them. The PS4 isn't going to be using any unfamiliar technology so developers should be getting good results with it right away. I still think you are right about it being a certain amount of time before the peak is shown though. But it would give us something to at least compare.

They will, of course. I’m not saying comparison is out of the question. I think so far we’ve seen better results than last time around though. I don’t remember launch game worth comparison last time around for what we had on the market.

Do you mean KZ2 or KZ:SF? If it was KZ2 i can remember people trying to compare KZ2 to Crysis and while KZ2 did, and probably still does look good, it wasn't a match for the detail in Crysis. I'd go as far as to say a console game is yet to match the original Crysis - Naughty Dog have come close with Uncharted (don't care what anyone says, to me the Uncharted franchise is the pinnacle of console graphics) but even then when you consider the scope of Crysis I still think it is in a league of it's own.

I meant SF. Yup, I agree…Crysis is still better-looking than any PS3 game largely due to the amount of RAM needed for that game. One could argue that on a smaller scale there is comparable graphics but then we run into the issue of destructible environments…something PS3 can’t have without reducing something somewhere else. There was just a lot more RAM available on the PC and that game also comes into my example that since it was meant to be played with the latest hardware (in fact, hardware that wasn’t even out yet)…it sold barely a million. Thus why PC developers will never utilize the hardware, not even close to its theoretical max. They are limited by their target market.

And if you wasn't on about KZ2 my last paragraph was a waste of time [IMG]file:///C:\DOCUME~1\N90709\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\c lip_image001.gif[/IMG]

This time next year we may very well have a few answers to our speculation and questions. One thing i know for sure, the PS4 is going to be a damn good console, i just don't think it will be the beast (relative to a PC) that some are hoping for. If you aren't a PC gamer and you want eye candy, Sony looks like the route to go. At least until MS show their offerings.

I think that’s going to be seen as we go along. You have to define what sort of PC gamer you’re talking about. I think certainly there will be more heads turning this time around. Probably not the ones that value everything a PC offers, which I can understand, such as moding and the ease of gaming with mouse/keyboard but I’m sure a larger part of PC enthusiasts will likely consider the PS4 and likely the next Xbox too.

Of course i agree but your argument is flawed. There is not ONE single company in this world that targeted their game for high end gaming PC's. Not even crysis3! That's what people like to call now a "cross-generational" title. Can you imagine what a game would like like if it were targeted for a SLI Titan x Titan?! That's NINE teraflops of performance! Five times more than what the PS4 has. That shit would look absolutely insaaaaane!

Thank you, you’ve just proven my point lol. You’re talking about theory. Something on paper, not yet seen in proof.
Can you imagine that it will never happen? That’s my entire point. It will never happen. Yes, that shit would look insane but from an economic standpoint, it will never, ever ever ever happen. Just like the Taylor Swift song.
In fact, if current PC hardware was utilized, that shit would be as good as next-next-gen (at least in a basic sense as technology will make better graphics easier to achieve).

Even that UE4 elemental demo that was targeted for ONE gtx680 last year took a MAJOR hit in the looks department when ported to the PS4. Maybe a rush port, who knows. Fact is, at the moment, UE4 on PS4 looked way (not exaggerating) worse than UE4 on a pc with one gtx680 last year.

Someone mentioned in this or another thread that it was rushed and was optimized with limited RAM.

Let's not kid ourselves, just because there isn't a market targeted exclusively for high end gaming PC's doesn't means that those machines don't smoke the PS4. And they do it with ease, too much ease maybe.

That’s where the flaw is in your argument. In theory, it does smoke the PS4 but in reality, it has not done that yet. I’d say, PC definitely smoked the PS3 with Crysis but the later games were comparable at medium settings, then later on at low settings.

[baho]

Thank you, you’ve just proven my point lol. You’re talking about theory. Something on paper, not yet seen in proof.

That's some fucked up thinking you've got there bro. Time to remove the fanboy blinders.

[Sufi]

That's some fucked up thinking you've got there bro. Time to remove the fanboy blinders.

Are you telling me that there's a developer out there willing to use up the entire power of SLI Titan x Titan? I think your thinking is fantasy-like.