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  1. #101
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    I think we all know what a gay party is like guys.. Come on never thought off sharing yourselfs with each other

    On Topic:

    It's incest that we should focus on and not $#@!SEXUALITY, the end result they are not linked and nor have they ever been

    If a brother has a sexual relationship with is brother, does that mean it is linked

    No it just means the brother is either gay or bi or just testing it out
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Man Gamer View Post
    I think it's a disgusting and perverted behavior but just like I don't want them to force their lifestyle on me, I won't force mine on them. It's not that difficult of a concept.
    Of course it isn't. But, to me, it appeared that you were implying that your rights may be threatened if we give gays equal rights, which would make no sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Man Gamer View Post
    Again, I'm not OK ramming it down my throat (no pun intended) with parades, gay day, etc. I have no idea why a minority of between only 2-5% of the population have the right to do what the remaining 95 - 98% of us can't do.
    You have the right to throw a parade for straights, but it's rather pointless as heterosexuals already have the rights they want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Man Gamer View Post
    Schools have no place teaching $#@!sexuality or the lifestyle. That's not the government's role. What they are attempting to do is indoctrinate our youth, especially the what it's brought about. Neither me or my kids HAVE to accept that lifestyle. I won't interfere until it's forced on me. That's part of the reason that there is so much pushback from the straight community.
    Why would schools teach about $#@!sexually? It may be brought up legitimately in social studies or in sex education (or even mentioned in history), but that's perfectly legitimate and rational. It's not as if there's going to be a class or lesson over it. And what do you mean by indoctrination? "Don't hate people because they're different," is not indoctrination.

    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    About 4% of the entire population identify themselves as $#@!sexual. By definition, $#@!sexuality is NOT normal. More people have autism than are $#@!sexual, but you wouldn't say being autistic is normal, would you?
    You do realize all you did was literally parrot back to me what I said, right? Besides that, this was a great post.
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  4. #103
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    I personally think incest is gross but if two relatives wanna bang and DON'T bring a child into the world, I couldn't care less. Same thing with gay marriage. I fully support the right for people to marry who they want. Would I marry a man? Probably not. But you know, there's nothing morally wrong with doing so, even if I don't personally do it, and so I think it'd be awfully selfish to force that belief on EVERYONE.

    But to answer the question, I don't think it's a slippery slope. I don't think societal acceptance of $#@!sexuality (which is already in the majority) will lead to societal acceptance of incest.
    Last edited by TRF; 04-01-2013 at 19:11.
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  6. #104
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    were in the bible does it say anything is wrong when it comes to sex
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    I personally think incest is gross but if two relatives wanna bang and DON'T bring a child into the world, I couldn't care less. Same thing with gay marriage. I fully support the right for people to marry who they want. Would I marry a man? Probably not. But you know, there's nothing morally wrong with doing so, even if I don't personally do it, and so I think it'd be awfully selfish to force that belief on EVERYONE.
    How is it being forced on everyone?

    But to answer the question, I don't think it's a slippery slope. I don't think societal acceptance of $#@!sexuality (which is already in the majority) will lead to societal acceptance of incest.
    Of course it will not but maybe 50+ years ago, people saw no difference between $#@!sexuality and incest or things they deemed to be wrong. We have to look at the reasons why we accept such things. For $#@!sexuality, I think it's fine and great that we accept it but if we accept it because we don't care (as most of us say, well, I don't care as long as it's within their house or that it feels right to them then so be it) then you "should" be willing to accept all other things where people are not being harmed more than the norm (because heterosexuals can harm one another as well in relationships) and that it feels right to them doing it.

    Incest may never be accepted because there's no one rallying for it and might never rally for it but I will guarantee you that there are people out there that don't think incest is wrong and there are those that participate. Just like $#@!sexuality decades ago, these people will never admit to it because it's seen as wrong. Again, I don't think it will ever happen but it's still interesting to note that we wouldn't have seen much of a difference between wrong things such as sleeping with your relatives or a man sleeping with another man or a woman sleeping with another woman but now we think one of them is ok.

    I think gays and lesbians should be treated equally but it's just interesting to note the reasons for accepting it as they can be applied to many other situations that almost all of us would completely consider wrongful or disgusting. Hence why I couldn't think of a good answer when the right-wing radio host mentioned it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by claud3 View Post
    were in the bible does it say anything is wrong when it comes to sex
    The Song of Solomon talks about marriage and sex like it should be (my opinion, not forcing it on anyone). There are some places in the New Testament as well that talks about sex and relationships.

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    I still don't get what people mean by "not forcing it on anyone"? lol

    How is anyone forcing anything on anyone (both heteros and gays)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    So unless you actually believe that sperm itself is valuable, you may want to rethink your stance on gays. Not to mention this verse comes from Leviticus, which also forbids wearing fabrics woven of two different materials, yet people today don't have any qualms with that. I mean no offense, but Christians cherry-pick the Bible a lot. If this is the case, then why not at least accept the love between two people? What do you think Jesus would want you to do?

    Also keep in mind that the Romans, the society that accepted Christianity and spread it to begin with, was open and even encouraging of $#@!sexuality (as were the Greeks). In fact the prejudice against gays is a fairly recent social development, happening only with the last couple of centuries. It really is something we as a society should stop.

    Humans are animals. We're just animals with very superior cognitive abilities, which does help set us apart from the other animals in numerous ways.
    You brought up Leviticus, which is Old Testament, the old covenant. I'm a Christian who believes we are under the new testament, grace, not law.

    Jesus would want me to let them decide what they want to do, and love them regardless, which I do. If a $#@!sexual person asked me for help, I would help that person and even be friends.

    I have nothing against gay people. I'm okay with them, but not okay with their decision. That's all.

    So are we superior or not superior to other animals then? If my female dog pet goes out and mates with every male dog in my neighborhood, does that mean other girls should do it and say, "Well, I can't help it. I'm an animal."

    We're not animals. We make decisions. Even if I'm horny as heck, I can make decision whether or not to mate with everything that moves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valefor View Post
    Do not take this as a personal attack Black Wolf, but as a way of considering your opinion on this matter:

    You claim not to know the Bible's views on incest (although surely a Christian should know everything in the Bible), and say 'but if it supported it, so would I'. Does that mean you support everything in the Bible? How about stuff from the Old Testament? Can't you see how blindly following any religious book casts a question mark over one's character and reasoning abilities? Is it not better to develop our own ideas based on compassion, reason and evidence, instead of being enslaved to a morally outdated book?

    Two men can't reproduce, so what? They are not harming anyone else by being together. However, reproduction through incest can bring harm to someone else - the offspring. Although as Rapture correctly pointed out, it does take generations.

    The world is not black and white - not taking the nuances of situations into account is futile.

    As for being animals, we are. The word 'animal' means 'having breath'.
    The Bible isn't outdated. The stuff written in the Bible is happening now as we type.

    I do not care how this world sees me. The world's nature is evil. Why would the world approve of me if I follow the Christ and God?

    I do admit I pay too much attention sometimes to how people treat me, but that's because I love my neighbor and I do my very best to love my enemy. I do not love the ways of the world.

    You're right, $#@!sexuality is not harming someone. If my neighbors included two gay guys next door, they can't harm me with what's going on in the bedroom.

    However, it is a sin. It's their decision, but it's sinful, just like adultery. I care about my neighbor, but they have free will and will make their decisions. I love them either way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    You brought up Leviticus, which is Old Testament, the old covenant. I'm a Christian who believes we are under the new testament, grace, not law.
    Well, the New Testament actually tells you to follow the Old Testament. Anyways, my point was that the interpretations of God's dislike for $#@!sexuals stems from Leviticus, so if you don't follow Leviticus then you shouldn't hold the Bible to be the reason of your opinion. I'm not saying you can't still have your opinion remain the same, just that the reasons it's based on may be incorrect.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    So are we superior or not superior to other animals then? If my female dog pet goes out and mates with every male dog in my neighborhood, does that mean other girls should do it and say, "Well, I can't help it. I'm an animal."

    We're not animals. We make decisions. Even if I'm horny as heck, I can make decision whether or not to mate with everything that moves.
    Are you purposely being difficult about this? Humans are animals that have certain biological advantages. That's all there is to it. Don't complicate it more than what it actually is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    I still don't get what people mean by "not forcing it on anyone"? lol
    Didn't you know? If we give equal rights to people, that's a violation of my rights to keep them as second-class citizens!

    The issue is that some people don't seem to grasp where their respective rights end and other people's begins.
    Last edited by Nerevar; 04-02-2013 at 00:01.
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  13. #111
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    why bother, bothering even caring

    It is not hurting nor is it destroying anyone in the world unless it is aimed to do so
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  14. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    Well, the New Testament actually tells you to follow the Old Testament. Anyways, my point was that the interpretations of God's dislike for $#@!sexuals stems from Leviticus, so if you don't follow Leviticus then you shouldn't hold the Bible to be the reason of your opinion. I'm not saying you can't still have your opinion remain the same, just that the reasons it's based on may be incorrect.
    No it does not. The Bible does not say we should be following the old covenant, the law. Heck, I can find a good amount of scriptures that tell we should be following the new covenant about Grace.

    There are other places, in the New Testament, about $#@!sexuality.

    Are you purposely being difficult about this? Humans are animals that have certain biological advantages. That's all there is to it. Don't complicate it more than what it actually is.
    I'm stating my belief just like you're stating yours. We're not animals, we were created in God's image. We're not pigs that go around humping trees and chicken. People may act like pigs, but that's not the way they should act.

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    The bible calls $#@!sexuality a sin. I don't care what the new testament states. There's really nothing else to be said about it. Where Christians go wrong is they seem to forget the golden rule about loving all people equally and not judging them. That should be the main focus. Focusing on one sin when you yourself are committing sin every day... just by being human... is hypocritical... and that's where a lot of Christians need to wake up.

    This image illustrates my point:



    Now obviously Jesus didn't say it quite like that... but the point remains the same.
    "The biggest adversary in our life is ourselves. We are what we are, in a sense, because of the dominating thoughts we allow to gather in our head. All concepts of self-improvement, all actions and paths we take, relate solely to our abstract image of ourselves. Life is limited only by how we really see ourselves and feel about our being. A great deal of pure self-knowledge and inner understanding allows us to lay an all-important foundation for the structure of our life from which we can perceive and take the right avenues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    No it does not. The Bible does not say we should be following the old covenant, the law.
    The Old Testament states that its laws are to never be ignored. Even Jesus states that he is not here to ruin the old laws and prophets, but to actually strengthen and abide by them.



    But this isn't meant to be a religious debate. I'm just pointing out one detail. However if you're going to post counter-points of verses in the Bible, then just be reminded that the Bible is full of contradictions anyways, so really this is all pointless.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    I'm stating my belief just like you're stating yours. We're not animals, we were created in God's image. We're not pigs that go around humping trees and chicken. People may act like pigs, but that's not the way they should act.
    That's not a belief though, that's just you ignoring established facts. Human beings ($#@! sapiens) are animals. There's no debate to it. You're mixing old idioms (that man is separate from the other animals) with modern definitions.
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  17. #115
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    I dig the new avatar, Rapture.
    "The biggest adversary in our life is ourselves. We are what we are, in a sense, because of the dominating thoughts we allow to gather in our head. All concepts of self-improvement, all actions and paths we take, relate solely to our abstract image of ourselves. Life is limited only by how we really see ourselves and feel about our being. A great deal of pure self-knowledge and inner understanding allows us to lay an all-important foundation for the structure of our life from which we can perceive and take the right avenues.

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    I donno about you guys but I'm a $#@! Sapien Sapien.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeanutButterMunky View Post
    I dig the new avatar, Rapture.
    Thanks brah. Blacksite made it for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    I donno about you guys but I'm a $#@! Sapien Sapien.
    You're actually both. $#@! Sapiens is the species, but there's two subspecies within it: $#@! Sapiens Sapiens (Wiser man) and $#@! Sapiens Neanderthals (simply wise man).
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  20. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    Thanks brah. Blacksite made it for me.



    You're actually both. $#@! Sapiens is the species, but there's two subspecies within it: $#@! Sapiens Sapiens (Wiser man) and $#@! Sapiens Neanderthals (simply wise man).
    Well of course we come from there but $#@! Sapiens actually existed before us thousands of years ago, not speaking of Neanderthals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    The Bible isn't outdated. The stuff written in the Bible is happening now as we type.
    It's not outdated? The Bible supports regulated slavery, so should we start up slavery again? Or shall we conclude it's outdated, because slavery is actually a bad thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    Why would the world approve of me if I follow the Christ and God?
    I would say that people would approve of you for being a good person, whether you're religious or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    The Old Testament states that its laws are to never be ignored. Even Jesus states that he is not here to ruin the old laws and prophets, but to actually strengthen and abide by them.

    But this isn't meant to be a religious debate. I'm just pointing out one detail. However if you're going to post counter-points of verses in the Bible, then just be reminded that the Bible is full of contradictions anyways, so really this is all pointless.
    And yet Jesus tells us not to worry about all those laws, he gives us the main two things to be concerned with, loving God and loving everyone else. Everything else falls in line.

    Once again, that's the old testament you keep refering to. We're not under the old testament anymore.

    It's not pointless to me, might be to you, because I know the Bible has no contradictions.

    Say whatever you want, the fact remains I have my beliefs and you have yours. You could just leave it that way instead of bashing the Bible and Christianity.


    That's not a belief though, that's just you ignoring established facts. Human beings ($#@! sapiens) are animals. There's no debate to it. You're mixing old idioms (that man is separate from the other animals) with modern definitions.
    So a person who believes in God or a religion is "ignoring established facts"?

    We're not animals. We could go on and on if you like. You say we're animals and I say we're not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valefor View Post
    It's not outdated? The Bible supports regulated slavery, so should we start up slavery again? Or shall we conclude it's outdated, because slavery is actually a bad thing?
    Where does the Bible say it SUPPORTS slavery?

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    Where does the Bible say it SUPPORTS slavery?
    Old Testament:

    'However, you may purchase male and female slaves from among the nations around you. You may also purchase the children of temporary residents who live among you, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat them as slaves, but you must never treat your fellow Israelites this way'.

    - Leviticus 25

    New Testament:

    'Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ'.

    - Ephesians 6:5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Well of course we come from there but $#@! Sapiens actually existed before us thousands of years ago, not speaking of Neanderthals.
    To me, your comment seemed as if you thought there was a note-worthy difference between $#@! Sapiens and $#@! Sapiens Sapiens (I thought you were maybe being playfully sarcastic). Which is why I brought it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    It's not pointless to me, might be to you, because I know the Bible has no contradictions.
    Well, no. This is false. The Bible is full of numerous contradictions. We've already made clear some contradictions here. And I said it was pointless because this piece of the discussion won't go anywhere but in circles.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    Say whatever you want, the fact remains I have my beliefs and you have yours. You could just leave it that way instead of bashing the Bible and Christianity.
    A dangerous mentality is thinking any neutral comment or critique is suddenly bashing the subject at hand. All I did was clarify specific details that were brought up in the thread. If you think that this is 'bashing', then maybe you're not ready for mature discussions. There's no reason to be defensive.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    So a person who believes in God or a religion is "ignoring established facts"?
    This is a strawman fallacy. You misconceived my point so that you could argue it. What I stated is that you're ignoring the established facts here. I didn't mention anything about religion or god.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    We're not animals. We could go on and on if you like. You say we're animals and I say we're not.
    We're animals because the axioms unto which these definitions and understandings exist are true. There's no logical reason to remove humans from the classification of animalia when we fit the criteria completely. You're just being unreasonable now.

    "Animals are a major group of multicellular, eukaryotic organisms of the kingdom Animalia or Metazoa."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valefor View Post
    Old Testament:

    'However, you may purchase male and female slaves from among the nations around you. You may also purchase the children of temporary residents who live among you, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat them as slaves, but you must never treat your fellow Israelites this way'.

    - Leviticus 25
    For the last and final time, that's old testament. We're not under law anymore.

    New Testament:

    'Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ'.

    - Ephesians 6:5
    You know what, I looked that verse and the surrounding verses up in my Bible and slavery is NOT what he is talking about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    To me, your comment seemed as if you thought there was a note-worthy difference between $#@! Sapiens and $#@! Sapiens Sapiens (I thought you were maybe being playfully sarcastic). Which is why I brought it up.



    Well, no. This is false. The Bible is full of numerous contradictions. We've already made clear some contradictions here. And I said it was pointless because this piece of the discussion won't go anywhere but in circles.



    A dangerous mentality is thinking any neutral comment or critique is suddenly bashing the subject at hand. All I did was clarify specific details that were brought up in the thread. If you think that this is 'bashing', then maybe you're not ready for mature discussions. There's no reason to be defensive.



    This is a strawman fallacy. You misconceived my point so that you could argue it. What I stated is that you're ignoring the established facts here. I didn't mention anything about religion or god.



    We're animals because the axioms unto which these definitions and understandings exist are true. There's no logical reason to remove humans from the classification of animalia when we fit the criteria completely. You're just being unreasonable now.

    "Animals are a major group of multicellular, eukaryotic organisms of the kingdom Animalia or Metazoa."
    You are right, this is going in circles and it's taken the thread completely off topic.

    I'll leave it alone, so the thread can go back on topic.

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