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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chille View Post
    I kind of liked it, there's nothing wrong with having a little fight over different opinions as long as you can respect each other.
    I still think 5 is better than 3.5 btw.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    I'm surprised you kept it that calm with my trolling at full blast lol.


    That makes sense.

    I don't know much about RAM optimization but i'd be very surprised if they did go with the GDDR3 setup...how much could the EDRAM help?

    Thing about it is, even if MS went with a GDDR5 RAM, I think we'd still see some issues, because I do believe MS' OS will take more RAM this time around. It makes no sense to me that they wouldn't give twice the services (likely integrated too) than Sony.

    I mean, that's their entire core competency in this competition.
    EDRAM will help alot as its very fast also though with both GDDR3+EDRAM working together only just catchs up with Sony's GDDR5 Plan, as the EDRAM runs fast it can do certain tasks whille the main ram does the rest, of course this means developers have to utilize 2 ram pools instead of 1, which as we know from this gen can be tricky.

    Also they could up the ram amount in the Xbox, but this could lead to heat issues unless they do it correct, they can't just switch to GDDR5 because they would need all New dev-kits sent out, with Sony it wasn't a big deal because they were already using GDDR5 so they didn't have to modify much, just slap another ram stick on motherboard



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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    That's true but GDDR3 vs GDDR5, there's a big difference. You won't see a customized setup of 8GB GDDR3 RAM compete with an 8GB GDDR5 RAM.

    Though something tells me MS won't go with GDDR3, that RAM type is very old. I just don't believe they'll do that...because if that's anywhere true then they're probably doing something different this generation and not competing directly against Sony.
    talking of customised setup's...

    i'm thinking there is more to how the new console hardware works than just faster ram. like how it configures with the architecture of the system.

    take the recent news of the Sparse Voxel Octree Global Illumination (SVOGI) lighting system having been removed from the PS4 version of the UE4 Elemental demo.
    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/di...nreal-engine-4
    The key differentiating factor between last year's demo and this newer iteration is that the Sparse Voxel Octree Global Illumination (SVOGI) lighting system hasn't made the cut. Instead, Epic is aiming for very high quality static global illumination with indirect GI sampling for all moving objects, including characters.

    "[SVOGI] was our prototype GI system that we used for Elemental last year. And our targets, given that we've had announced hardware from Sony, that's where we're going to be using Lightmass as our global illumination solution instead of SVOGI," senior technical artist and level designer Alan Willard told Eurogamer, stressing that this new iteration of the technology has evolved significantly beyond the current-gen system used in titles like Mass Effect 3. Certainly, just the presence of so much more memory on next-gen platforms should improve lightmap quality on its own.
    now add to that the thoughts of a poster over on GAF.
    The bulk of the computational work of SVOGI consists of cone traces over the octree representing direct and indirect light sources. Unlike more traditional rendering techniques, where the GPU simply wants as much bandwidth as possible, these cone traces are entirely latency-bound. This is an issue for the PS4, which has been designed around a big pool of GDDR5, because the latency for a GPU accessing GDDR5 memory is going to be crippling to something as latency-sensitive as SVOGI is. (PC GPUs, of course, have the same issue, but when you've got something as powerful as two 680s, efficiency doesn't matter that much.

    The heirarchical memory architecture of Durango and Wii U is actually much more suited to SVOGI, as the embedded pool can be used as a very low latency buffer for the octree while the cone-traces are being performed. Of course the Wii U wouldn't have the GPU grunt necessary for a full SVOGI-based UE4, but Durango should potentially be much more capable of the rendering technique than PS4, despite the apparent gap in power.
    not as fast ram, but perhaps capable of doing more because of how the rest of the system is put together?

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    If the rumored specs are true its kind of odd that MS is using these workarounds to compensate for the slower RAM rather than just go with the faster RAM in the first place. Seems kind of dumb. But maybe theres other factors at play.
    Last edited by mistercrow; 03-31-2013 at 19:01.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chille View Post
    EDRAM will help alot as its very fast also though with both GDDR3+EDRAM working together only just catchs up with Sony's GDDR5 Plan, as the EDRAM runs fast it can do certain tasks whille the main ram does the rest, of course this means developers have to utilize 2 ram pools instead of 1, which as we know from this gen can be tricky.
    So you're saying that it will be as fast as the GDDR5 RAM?

    Also they could up the ram amount in the Xbox, but this could lead to heat issues unless they do it correct, they can't just switch to GDDR5 because they would need all New dev-kits sent out, with Sony it wasn't a big deal because they were already using GDDR5 so they didn't have to modify much, just slap another ram stick on motherboard
    I think the dev kits are the last of their issues, what I'm reading from other posters here is that it won't be possible due to manufacturing logistics. It would delay the console. Granted they are going with GDDR3, I mean, we don't know that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yungstar 2006 View Post
    talking of customised setup's...

    i'm thinking there is more to how the new console hardware works than just faster ram. like how it configures with the architecture of the system.

    take the recent news of the Sparse Voxel Octree Global Illumination (SVOGI) lighting system having been removed from the PS4 version of the UE4 Elemental demo.
    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/di...nreal-engine-4


    now add to that the thoughts of a poster over on GAF.


    not as fast ram, but perhaps capable of doing more because of how the rest of the system is put together?
    You're talking about how a particular lighting system from a particular engine that is done differently (if less detailed).

    That's one thing, there will be things that GDDR3+EDRAM won't be able to do as opposed to the brute power of GDDR5. That doesn't necessarily mean that the GDDR3+EDRAM will do more things overall.

    Quote Originally Posted by radgamer420 View Post
    If the rumored specs are true its kind of odd that MS is using these workarounds to compensate for the slower RAM rather than just go with the faster RAM in the first place. Seems kind of dumb. But maybe theres other factors at play.
    Exactly, it makes no sense to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    So you're saying that it will be as fast as the GDDR5 RAM?


    I think the dev kits are the last of their issues, what I'm reading from other posters here is that it won't be possible due to manufacturing logistics. It would delay the console. Granted they are going with GDDR3, I mean, we don't know that.

    You're talking about how a particular lighting system from a particular engine that is done differently (if less detailed).

    That's one thing, there will be things that GDDR3+EDRAM won't be able to do as opposed to the brute power of GDDR5. That doesn't necessarily mean that the GDDR3+EDRAM will do more things overall.


    Exactly, it makes no sense to me.
    In theory could get close to the same speeds, not as fast but there won't be a massive difference, I think all we will see next gen if Microsoft uses this method is certain games might have a very slight resolution increase and frame rate on ps4. But most consumers won't tell difference



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    I must have missed something (and this very well may be a stupid question since no one else seems to be questioning it) but if the PS3 OS is rumored to be using 512 mb of ram, how is there only 3.5 GB left? Where did the rest of the ram go?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sainraja View Post
    I must have missed something (and this very well may be a stupid question since no one else seems to be questioning it) but if the PS3 OS is rumored to be using 512 mb of ram, how is there only 3.5 GB left? Where did the rest of the ram go?
    Nobody knows anything yet, but if the entire OS is only using 512 MB, then there'll certainly be more than 3.5 GB left.
    "The biggest adversary in our life is ourselves. We are what we are, in a sense, because of the dominating thoughts we allow to gather in our head. All concepts of self-improvement, all actions and paths we take, relate solely to our abstract image of ourselves. Life is limited only by how we really see ourselves and feel about our being. A great deal of pure self-knowledge and inner understanding allows us to lay an all-important foundation for the structure of our life from which we can perceive and take the right avenues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sainraja View Post
    I must have missed something (and this very well may be a stupid question since no one else seems to be questioning it) but if the PS3 OS is rumored to be using 512 mb of ram, how is there only 3.5 GB left? Where did the rest of the ram go?
    I'm confused too. Oh well.




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    Quote Originally Posted by sainraja View Post
    I must have missed something (and this very well may be a stupid question since no one else seems to be questioning it) but if the PS3 OS is rumored to be using 512 mb of ram, how is there only 3.5 GB left? Where did the rest of the ram go?
    Ps4 originally had 2GB GDDR5, which killzone, infamous ans the unreal engine are running on, late last year they doubled to 4GB GDDR5, which was to keep up with Microsoft, but then recently they upgraded again to 8GB



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    Quote Originally Posted by Chille View Post
    Ps4 originally had 2GB GDDR5, which killzone, infamous ans the unreal engine are running on, late last year they doubled to 4GB GDDR5, which was to keep up with Microsoft, but then recently they upgraded again to 8GB
    So correct me if I'm wrong. If the OS is running at 0.5gb, then originally it would have been 1.5gb left. However now it's up to 7.5gb left right?




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    Quote Originally Posted by Serinous View Post
    So correct me if I'm wrong. If the OS is running at 0.5gb, then originally it would have been 1.5gb left. However now it's up to 7.5gb left right?
    Yep that is correct, that's if the OS usage data is correct, though I'm not quite sure that it is, Sony seems to be including 16 GB of flash memory which could easily be used to save state the os, which would mean the ram won't be needed for it, of course this is all wizardry but I'm also sure that the vita doesn't use much if any ram with its OS during gameplay, need to research it more



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    Quote Originally Posted by sainraja View Post
    I must have missed something (and this very well may be a stupid question since no one else seems to be questioning it) but if the PS3 OS is rumored to be using 512 mb of ram, how is there only 3.5 GB left? Where did the rest of the ram go?
    Quote Originally Posted by PeanutButterMunky View Post
    Nobody knows anything yet, but if the entire OS is only using 512 MB, then there'll certainly be more than 3.5 GB left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Serinous View Post
    I'm confused too. Oh well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chille View Post
    Ps4 originally had 2GB GDDR5, which killzone, infamous ans the unreal engine are running on, late last year they doubled to 4GB GDDR5, which was to keep up with Microsoft, but then recently they upgraded again to 8GB
    Quote Originally Posted by Serinous View Post
    So correct me if I'm wrong. If the OS is running at 0.5gb, then originally it would have been 1.5gb left. However now it's up to 7.5gb left right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Chille View Post
    Yep that is correct, that's if the OS usage data is correct, though I'm not quite sure that it is, Sony seems to be including 16 GB of flash memory which could easily be used to save state the os, which would mean the ram won't be needed for it, of course this is all wizardry but I'm also sure that the vita doesn't use much if any ram with its OS during gameplay, need to research it more
    You guys are cracking me up lol.

    The 3.5 thing started because that's what the OP is talking about. That Sony upped it because MS had 8GB or something like that so that it would be equal to MS' games. He's not talking about the RAM that Sony has now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    You guys are cracking me up lol.

    The 3.5 thing started because that's what the OP is talking about. That Sony upped it because MS had 8GB or something like that so that it would be equal to MS' games. He's not talking about the RAM that Sony has now.
    As long as you are entertained.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeanutButterMunky View Post
    As long as you are entertained.
    I was like, "SOMEBODY RESPOND QUICKLY! WHAT IF THEY NEVER FOUND OUT!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Chille View Post
    Ps4 originally had 2GB GDDR5, which killzone, infamous ans the unreal engine are running on, late last year they doubled to 4GB GDDR5, which was to keep up with Microsoft, but then recently they upgraded again to 8GB
    2GB? That is insane and DICE should quit development.

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    Quote Originally Posted by radgamer420 View Post
    If the rumored specs are true its kind of odd that MS is using these workarounds to compensate for the slower RAM rather than just go with the faster RAM in the first place. Seems kind of dumb. But maybe theres other factors at play.
    Perhaps it was a choice of faster RAM vs more RAM and with at least some developers asking for more RAM they went with more. Microsoft also probably didn't see going with 8GB of DDR3 RAM as a negative at the time and until recently it wasn't.

    Before the leaked specs it was believed that next gen consoles wouldn't have anymore than around 2GB of RAM; going with 8GB didn't seem likely or possible at the time.

    Sony likely went with 8GB of RAM for the very same reason MS did(developers asking for more); only that it was easier to stick with GDDR5 rather than switch to another type of RAM.

    Switching the type of RAM could have set them back causing delays and possibly even more money than just sticking with GDDR5.

    I wager that if Sony had decided to go with 8GB from the beginning they would have went with DDR3 RAM with a setup very similar to what the leak specs are for the next Xbox.
    Last edited by Ryunosuke; 04-01-2013 at 06:16.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryunosuke View Post
    Perhaps it was a choice of faster RAM vs more RAM and with at least some developers asking for more RAM they went with more. Microsoft also probably didn't see going with 8GB of DDR3 RAM as a negative at the time and until recently it wasn't. Before the leaked specs it was believed that next gen consoles wouldn't have anymore than around 2GB of RAM; going with 8GB didn't seem likely or possible. Sony likely went with 8GB of RAM for the very same reason MS did(developers asking for more); only that it was easier to stick with GDDR5 rather than switch to another type of RAM. Switching the type of RAM could have possible set them back causing delays and possibly even more money than just sticking with GDDR5. I wager that if Sony had decided to go with 8GB from the beginning they would have went with DDR3 RAM with a setup very similar to what the leak specs are for the next Xbox.
    Makes sense. Good explanation and I think youre right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryunosuke View Post
    Perhaps it was a choice of faster RAM vs more RAM and with at least some developers asking for more RAM they went with more. Microsoft also probably didn't see going with 8GB of DDR3 RAM as a negative at the time and until recently it wasn't.

    Before the leaked specs it was believed that next gen consoles wouldn't have anymore than around 2GB of RAM; going with 8GB didn't seem likely or possible at the time.

    Sony likely went with 8GB of RAM for the very same reason MS did(developers asking for more); only that it was easier to stick with GDDR5 rather than switch to another type of RAM.

    Switching the type of RAM could have set them back causing delays and possibly even more money than just sticking with GDDR5.

    I wager that if Sony had decided to go with 8GB from the beginning they would have went with DDR3 RAM with a setup very similar to what the leak specs are for the next Xbox.
    Won't allow me to rep you but like or report so I liked lol. You make great points. I do think Sony would not have gone with GDDR5, had they known they would've upped the RAM to 8GBs.

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    Do see this as a surprise, it is what it is and that is a rumor and uncertain
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    Well, seeing that Sony had 4GB of RAM just a little while back...switching to 8GB suggests that they're not taking these rumors of 8GB for MS with a grain of salt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    You're talking about how a particular lighting system from a particular engine that is done differently (if less detailed).
    and what if Epic had a bigger hand in Nextbox than they did with 360 and it has been designed (of course, at a price) to run UE4 (the engine that will most likely be used in the majority of multi-plats)?

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    Then Sony is $#@!ed.

    Feel better now? :3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yungstar 2006 View Post
    and what if Epic had a bigger hand in Nextbox than they did with 360 and it has been designed (of course, at a price) to run UE4 (the engine that will most likely be used in the majority of multi-plats)?
    Epic has always had a big hand in the Xbox, reason why it had 512mb ram in first place on 360 was because Epic complained at only 256mb



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    Quote Originally Posted by Yungstar 2006 View Post
    and what if Epic had a bigger hand in Nextbox than they did with 360 and it has been designed (of course, at a price) to run UE4 (the engine that will most likely be used in the majority of multi-plats)?
    Hypothetically speaking, if Epic had a bigger hand in Nextbox (considering they did not for the 360 as opposed to the PS3) and it has been designed for it...I'm assuming some sort of a deal...which is highly unlikely and would cost millions of dollars, you're better off hoping for an in-house engine...even after all that, you'd still have to see how big of a difference there really is. They didn't say anywhere that one looks worse than the other and if it does then how much is it?

    Remember those ray-traced clouds from Warhawk? Looked worse than clouds in other games imo.

    PS3 games in general had better lighting...did anyone care or notice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chille View Post
    Epic has always had a big hand in the Xbox, reason why it had 512mb ram in first place on 360 was because Epic complained at only 256mb
    They may have had influence in MS' decision about their hardware but their engine is focused towards PC games.
    Last edited by Omar; 04-01-2013 at 20:05.

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