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  1. #26
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    Oh, gawd. This is already doing the rounds in the PS4 section about how butt-hurt Nvidia apparently are. Did it really need to be regurgitated here?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varsh View Post
    I love how people jump to conclusions without thinking about things first.



    5000 is not halfway between 1000 and 10000 thus 5000 is higher up than the middle point.
    Exactly, because the range is logarithmic, not linear. The range goes up by one for every increase in the power of 10, meaning 101,102, 103, and 104. The midpoint between 1000 and 10,000 would be 3.16 teraflops, or 103.5. And 5.0 teraflops would be 103.70.
    Last edited by Foraeli; 04-02-2013 at 21:33.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeanutButterMunky View Post
    It says 4.5 Teraflops single precision and 1.3 Teraflops double precision... which has already been established. I'm saying if the combined TFlops is 5.8, NVIDIA would make it a point to clarify that on their own website for the Titan.

    But if the total combined TFlops is in fact 5.8, it would put it above the performance of the GTX 690, which is 5.6 TFlops. So... that can't be accurate.

    Or maybe I'm just missing something.
    The 5.6 figure is for single-precision only. The 690 actually has less double-precision floating point units than Titan. Titan has 64 DP FPU's per SMX, where the 690 GTX only has 8.

    So if we do the math for the 690 GTX:

    8 DP FPU's x 16 SMX units = 128 DP FPUs
    128 x 2 FLOPS (fuse multiply-add)
    256 FLOPS * 915MHz = ~0.234 TFLOPS double precision

    I don't know why nVidia only quotes single-precision floating point performance. Probably because these are gaming cards and double-precision doesn't really matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBettaKnow View Post
    Oh I'm so surprised. Who is this graph for? Did anyone even question the PS4's Ability to take on the Titan (or any other high end GPU?)

    Obvious chart is obvious
    What card would it take to render KZ:Shadow Falls graphics?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion View Post
    The 5.6 figure is for single-precision only. The 690 actually has less double-precision floating point units than Titan. Titan has 64 DP FPU's per SMX, where the 690 GTX only has 8.

    So if we do the math for the 690 GTX:

    8 DP FPU's x 16 SMX units = 128 DP FPUs
    128 x 2 FLOPS (fuse multiply-add)
    256 FLOPS * 915MHz = ~0.234 TFLOPS double precision

    I don't know why nVidia only quotes single-precision floating point performance. Probably because these are gaming cards and double-precision doesn't really matter.
    Thank you for explaining that. Was bugging me... lol.
    "The biggest adversary in our life is ourselves. We are what we are, in a sense, because of the dominating thoughts we allow to gather in our head. All concepts of self-improvement, all actions and paths we take, relate solely to our abstract image of ourselves. Life is limited only by how we really see ourselves and feel about our being. A great deal of pure self-knowledge and inner understanding allows us to lay an all-important foundation for the structure of our life from which we can perceive and take the right avenues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion View Post
    The 5.6 figure is for single-precision only. The 690 actually has less double-precision floating point units than Titan. Titan has 64 DP FPU's per SMX, where the 690 GTX only has 8.

    So if we do the math for the 690 GTX:

    8 DP FPU's x 16 SMX units = 128 DP FPUs
    128 x 2 FLOPS (fuse multiply-add)
    256 FLOPS * 915MHz = ~0.234 TFLOPS double precision

    I don't know why nVidia only quotes single-precision floating point performance. Probably because these are gaming cards and double-precision doesn't really matter.
    This isn't directed to you, just a stupid question:
    Does double precision mean calculations done with variables of type double instead of int or float of short etc?
    Double data types hold larger values and in turn provides more precise calculations by avoiding truncation, however they also are much slower so I always assumed that this is what double precision meant. Is that correct?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    What card would it take to render KZ:Shadow Falls graphics?
    I think we should hold off from comparing just yet since what we saw was 9 months away from launch. But if you mean what card you would use on PC to run a game like that, I would have to say north of gtx660ti to get that clean of a image and sustained performance

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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    I think we should hold off from comparing just yet since what we saw was 9 months away from launch. But if you mean what card you would use on PC to run a game like that, I would have to say north of gtx660ti to get that clean of a image and sustained performance
    I agree, it's really a rough argument. All I'm saying is that they were able to do that with 2GB of RAM so depending on what game is out when Titan is being used, it's possible that PS4 would have comparable graphics...maybe not multiplat games but likely exclusive ones that utilize its power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    This isn't directed to you, just a stupid question:
    Does double precision mean calculations done with variables of type double instead of int or float of short etc?
    Double data types hold larger values and in turn provides more precise calculations by avoiding truncation, however they also are much slower so I always assumed that this is what double precision meant. Is that correct?
    Yes. Double-precision floating point values are 64 bits in size (the 'double' type in C), where single-precision is 32 bits (the 'float' type in C). DP does provide much more precision, but that level of precision isn't required in gaming, and the performance and memory trade-off isn't worth it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion View Post
    Yes. Double-precision floating point values are 64 bits in size (the 'double' type in C), where single-precision is 32 bits (the 'float' type in C). DP does provide much more precision, but that level of precision isn't required in gaming, and the performance and memory trade-off isn't worth it.
    That was going to be my next question, that whether that extra accurate calculations help at all. I assumed it would help in physics for example. Guess not

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    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion View Post
    Yes. Double-precision floating point values are 64 bits in size (the 'double' type in C), where single-precision is 32 bits (the 'float' type in C). DP does provide much more precision, but that level of precision isn't required in gaming, and the performance and memory trade-off isn't worth it.
    So the option found in Tomb Raider 2013 called "precission" is the sme thing as you describe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    What card would it take to render KZ:Shadow Falls graphics?
    We'll never know as no one will make it specifically for it. Speaking in terms of raw power though, Titan trumps the PS4 (but that should be the case with the price of the Titan)


    BBK. Tapatalking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBettaKnow View Post
    We'll never know as no one will make it specifically for it. Speaking in terms of raw power though, Titan trumps the PS4 (but that should be the case with the price of the Titan)


    BBK. Tapatalking.
    I'm not arguing against that. Of course KZ won't be made for the PC. I meant to say a rough estimate of what you guys think the kind of graphics card you'd need to run a game like that.

    While the power of Titan trumps the PS4, it depends on what games will utilize its true power and that's not going to be many games. Basically the card is an overkill in most situations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    I'm not arguing against that. Of course KZ won't be made for the PC. I meant to say a rough estimate of what you guys think the kind of graphics card you'd need to run a game like that.

    While the power of Titan trumps the PS4, it depends on what games will utilize its true power and that's not going to be many games. Basically the card is an overkill in most situations.
    My point is that we won't ever know what GPU would run it if games were made specifically for it.

    Lets speculate that KZ:SF is being played at 1920x1080@30FPS with medium AA and AF with a normal draw distance. I'd say under those circumstances as Iatchi said a GTX660TI should be enough. If we're comparing computational power, the 660TI is already faster even without a overclock


    We'll never know though

    As for overkill. At 1920x1080 the Titan is overkill (and I still plan on getting one even though I only game at 1080 for now) but it's when you go for multiple monitors the Titan can really flex it's muscles.


    BBK. Tapatalking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBettaKnow View Post
    My point is that we won't ever know what GPU would run it if games were made specifically for it.

    Lets speculate that KZ:SF is being played at 1920x1080@30FPS with medium AA and AF with a normal draw distance. I'd say under those circumstances as Iatchi said a GTX660TI should be enough. If we're comparing computational power, the 660TI is already faster even without a overclock.
    See, again, we're going back to the theoretical power argument. On paper it has more power but because of the way PC gaming development is set up, 660TI will never use that theoretical power...it just has it for raw uses such as slightly better frame rate/smoke/AF/AA etc. as does Titan over anything right now.
    We'll never know though
    We will never truly know but the games will speak for themselves. There will be enough visual evidence just as there was with PS3 games (exclusives) vs 360 games (exclusives/non-exclusives) in visual fidelity.

    As for overkill. At 1920x1080 the Titan is overkill (and I still plan on getting one even though I only game at 1080 for now) but it's when you go for multiple monitors the Titan can really flex it's muscles.


    BBK. Tapatalking.
    That's beside the point, the card itself can never truly be utilized in a PC environment. Meaning, if a closed box had a Titan, we would be seeing next-next-gen "right now". Meaning, crap we'll see 10 years from now should be roughly possible with the Titan (why I say roughly is because technology will get better where we will see more features but for the most part it should be able to compete with next-next-gen if it were in a closed-box).

    PC cards are never completely utilized and they never have a single game specifically designed for them, that's a double whammy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    See, again, we're going back to the theoretical power argument. On paper it has more power but because of the way PC gaming development is set up, 660TI will never use that theoretical power...it just has it for raw uses such as slightly better frame rate/smoke/AF/AA etc. as does Titan over anything right now.
    You're asking a question no one has the answer to. I don't know what GPU a PC would need to play KZ:SF at PS4 settings any more than you don't know the answer to how any PC exclusive would run on a PS4. As I said to you before. Lets wait until the PS4/720 is released and we can compare how multiplatform games look across all platforms - yes it's not a fair comparison because it's early in the consoles life but that will at least give us something to judge.

    We will never truly know but the games will speak for themselves. There will be enough visual evidence just as there was with PS3 games (exclusives) vs 360 games (exclusives/non-exclusives) in visual fidelity.

    Exactly. Lets wait for some games to release and see how the PS4 stacks up against a Gaming PC. By gaming PC i mean a PC that PC enthusiast would play on, not entry level crap. Lets see how it would compare to a Mid-range and then High end PC. Only then will we have a better idea of where the PS4 sits.

    That's beside the point, the card itself can never truly be utilized in a PC environment. Meaning, if a closed box had a Titan, we would be seeing next-next-gen "right now". Meaning, crap we'll see 10 years from now should be roughly possible with the Titan (why I say roughly is because technology will get better where we will see more features but for the most part it should be able to compete with next-next-gen if it were in a closed-box).

    PC cards are never completely utilized and they never have a single game specifically designed for them, that's a double whammy.
    How is it besides the point? The card is made for big resolutions. You can say we won't get 100% of the power out of it but lets be honest, PC gaming has never needed 100% of the available power to look better than the console counterparts. It would be amazing if some did say "$#@! it, you need a 680 or 7970GHz MINIMUM to play this game" but then that excludes all of the gamers on older series of Nvidia cards or AMD's cards. So they make it so that everyone can play it but for those who have the faster cards are treated to my visuals and higher framerates.

    Games not being made for a specific GPU is hardly a problem.

    So yeah, while the Titan could produce better graphics than even a next, next-gen console that isn't the point. Its point is to be the fastest single card GPU - What it is by some margin. Its meant to be used for big resolutions, for big resolutions it isn't overkill in the slightest. Maybe a 3 or 4 way SLI could be considered overkill but as with everything in the PC word - Overkill is relative.


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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBettaKnow View Post
    How is it besides the point? The card is made for big resolutions. You can say we won't get 100% of the power out of it but lets be honest, PC gaming has never needed 100% of the available power to look better than the console counterparts. It would be amazing if some did say "$#@! it, you need a 680 or 7970GHz MINIMUM to play this game" but then that excludes all of the gamers on older series of Nvidia cards or AMD's cards. So they make it so that everyone can play it but for those who have the faster cards are treated to my visuals and higher framerates.

    Games not being made for a specific GPU is hardly a problem.

    So yeah, while the Titan could produce better graphics than even a next, next-gen console that isn't the point. Its point is to be the fastest single card GPU - What it is by some margin. Its meant to be used for big resolutions, for big resolutions it isn't overkill in the slightest. Maybe a 3 or 4 way SLI could be considered overkill but as with everything in the PC word - Overkill is relative.
    All very good points. There's nothing more satisfying in PC gaming than being able to max everything out in a game without any issues.
    "The biggest adversary in our life is ourselves. We are what we are, in a sense, because of the dominating thoughts we allow to gather in our head. All concepts of self-improvement, all actions and paths we take, relate solely to our abstract image of ourselves. Life is limited only by how we really see ourselves and feel about our being. A great deal of pure self-knowledge and inner understanding allows us to lay an all-important foundation for the structure of our life from which we can perceive and take the right avenues.

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    Speaking of high resolutions, what resolution do you think is needed after which it wont be worth increasing? I mean consoles are generally hooked to TVs and we play them 6-8ft away. At what resolution is it perfect and we don't need more pixels cuz we are already can't distinguish each pixel (weird way on putting it I know)

    I don't think it is a linear relationship that we will continue to increase resolutions. We WILL hit diminishing returns and I wanna know what resolution it will be at. 2k? 4k? 8k is just useless for a average household TV imo at this point

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBettaKnow View Post
    You're asking a question no one has the answer to. I don't know what GPU a PC would need to play KZ:SF at PS4 settings any more than you don't know the answer to how any PC exclusive would run on a PS4. As I said to you before. Lets wait until the PS4/720 is released and we can compare how multiplatform games look across all platforms - yes it's not a fair comparison because it's early in the consoles life but that will at least give us something to judge.




    Exactly. Lets wait for some games to release and see how the PS4 stacks up against a Gaming PC. By gaming PC i mean a PC that PC enthusiast would play on, not entry level crap. Lets see how it would compare to a Mid-range and then High end PC. Only then will we have a better idea of where the PS4 sits.



    How is it besides the point? The card is made for big resolutions. You can say we won't get 100% of the power out of it but lets be honest, PC gaming has never needed 100% of the available power to look better than the console counterparts. It would be amazing if some did say "$#@! it, you need a 680 or 7970GHz MINIMUM to play this game" but then that excludes all of the gamers on older series of Nvidia cards or AMD's cards. So they make it so that everyone can play it but for those who have the faster cards are treated to my visuals and higher framerates.

    Games not being made for a specific GPU is hardly a problem.

    So yeah, while the Titan could produce better graphics than even a next, next-gen console that isn't the point. Its point is to be the fastest single card GPU - What it is by some margin. Its meant to be used for big resolutions, for big resolutions it isn't overkill in the slightest. Maybe a 3 or 4 way SLI could be considered overkill but as with everything in the PC word - Overkill is relative.

    You're looking at it wrong and misunderstanding what I'm talking about. I'm sure there are some things we can agree on (maybe that we need to wait and see but we already have reasonable evidence to believe certain things, which I will explain) but I'll have to respond once I'm home as I will need some time to reply.
    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    Speaking of high resolutions, what resolution do you think is needed after which it wont be worth increasing? I mean consoles are generally hooked to TVs and we play them 6-8ft away. At what resolution is it perfect and we don't need more pixels cuz we are already can't distinguish each pixel (weird way on putting it I know)

    I don't think it is a linear relationship that we will continue to increase resolutions. We WILL hit diminishing returns and I wanna know what resolution it will be at. 2k? 4k? 8k is just useless for a average household TV imo at this point
    The average consumer might not care for a long time anything over 1080p because most people prefer not to have a big TV such as over 40" (just throwing a number out there due to anecdotal evidence). 720p looks decent on a 40" but 1080p will look slightly better but not noticeable to the untrained eye and especially at the distance most people sit at, they woudln't know 720p from a DVD and they might need to focus with a 1080p resolution vs DVD.

    I think we're going to stop with 1080p for a while and then we'll start seeing enthusiasts sticking with 4K while mainstream with 1080p (those that don't have big screens but medium sized TVs).

    Once 4K is cheap and probably the only thing to get, we will see mainstream with that but I would find it hard to believe that they would be sold anything higher than that...but then again, we have 10+ megapixel cameras for I-don't-know-what-$#@!ing-reason lol and people actually believe that higher megapixels mean better quality.

    I don't think I'll care for anything over 4K...not unless I have a projector.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    The average consumer might not care for a long time anything over 1080p because most people prefer not to have a big TV such as over 40" (just throwing a number out there due to anecdotal evidence). 720p looks decent on a 40" but 1080p will look slightly better but not noticeable to the untrained eye and especially at the distance most people sit at, they woudln't know 720p from a DVD and they might need to focus with a 1080p resolution vs DVD.

    I think we're going to stop with 1080p for a while and then we'll start seeing enthusiasts sticking with 4K while mainstream with 1080p (those that don't have big screens but medium sized TVs).

    Once 4K is cheap and probably the only thing to get, we will see mainstream with that but I would find it hard to believe that they would be sold anything higher than that...but then again, we have 10+ megapixel cameras for I-don't-know-what-$#@!ing-reason lol and people actually believe that higher megapixels mean better quality.

    I don't think I'll care for anything over 4K...not unless I have a projector.
    PC gamers are increasingly playing games at 2k resolutions now but PC gaming requires it as most PC gamers are closer to the screen. Personally I don't want my TV to be larger than say a 42" or 46" and by that standard I can't distinguish anything over 2k

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    I just set my monitr resolution to 640x480, the dialog to confirm almost fills the screen.


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    Quote Originally Posted by PeanutButterMunky View Post
    All very good points. There's nothing more satisfying in PC gaming than being able to max everything out in a game without any issues.
    It's heaven isn't it? My current PC still plays most games High at 1080 and gets over 60fps but once the new generation is out this little machine will be lagging behind. That's why i'm planning on building a monster before that happens

    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    Speaking of high resolutions, what resolution do you think is needed after which it wont be worth increasing? I mean consoles are generally hooked to TVs and we play them 6-8ft away. At what resolution is it perfect and we don't need more pixels cuz we are already can't distinguish each pixel (weird way on putting it I know)

    I don't think it is a linear relationship that we will continue to increase resolutions. We WILL hit diminishing returns and I wanna know what resolution it will be at. 2k? 4k? 8k is just useless for a average household TV imo at this point
    Who knows? I don't think we'll be happy until we have a picture that is almost indistinguishable from real life. I remember I was happy with 1920x1080 but now i'm already trying to make it so I can start playing on 5760x1080 and join the quadruple 120Hz monitor club (though i'm not sure what the exact resolution is when you include the radio screen)

    People said they were already happy with the PS3 and it couldn't possibly get any better. I bet in 6 years time will be having people saying they can't wait for the PS5 and how much nicer it will get then.



    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    You're looking at it wrong and misunderstanding what I'm talking about. I'm sure there are some things we can agree on (maybe that we need to wait and see but we already have reasonable evidence to believe certain things, which I will explain) but I'll have to respond once I'm home as I will need some time to reply.
    Sure thing man. I think I see where you are coming from. The theoretical power of the Titan or any gpu will never be used as they are often making games for the lowest spec first and foremost with the bells and whistles being added with higher settings however my point is that games don't need to be made for a specific GPU simply because they are so quick and powerful that they can get pretty looking games no matter how inefficient it is.
    The average consumer might not care for a long time anything over 1080p because most people prefer not to have a big TV such as over 40" (just throwing a number out there due to anecdotal evidence). 720p looks decent on a 40" but 1080p will look slightly better but not noticeable to the untrained eye and especially at the distance most people sit at, they woudln't know 720p from a DVD and they might need to focus with a 1080p resolution vs DVD.

    I think we're going to stop with 1080p for a while and then we'll start seeing enthusiasts sticking with 4K while mainstream with 1080p (those that don't have big screens but medium sized TVs).

    Once 4K is cheap and probably the only thing to get, we will see mainstream with that but I would find it hard to believe that they would be sold anything higher than that...but then again, we have 10+ megapixel cameras for I-don't-know-what-$#@!ing-reason lol and people actually believe that higher megapixels mean better quality.

    I don't think I'll care for anything over 4K...not unless I have a projector.
    For now, then again PC enthusiasts and Joe Public are not the same breed of animal. Lets be honest, anyone who spends upwards of 2000 on a machine with the prime interest in gaming is not your standard consumer. They want the best. 4K maybe good now. Wait a few years. Will 4K still be as breathtaking as it is now in 10 or even 5 years time?
    Last edited by BBK..; 04-03-2013 at 18:37.

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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    PC gamers are increasingly playing games at 2k resolutions now but PC gaming requires it as most PC gamers are closer to the screen. Personally I don't want my TV to be larger than say a 42" or 46" and by that standard I can't distinguish anything over 2k
    I don't think 1080p is really that beneficial for a monitor (assuming you don't have anything over 22" and if you do, you shouldn't lol), I played at 1640 x 1050 and that resolution was perfect (I believe it's a generic resolution for monitors) and it was very sharp...don't think we need anything more than that unless you're an enthusiast and get annoyed by not having the best-est.

    I have a 46" right now but I'm not happy. I used to have those big 60" TVs and SOCOM was glorious on it. I can't wait to get a 60" HDTV. That's my sweet spot. You can watch it from afar and up close you can get used to the big size.

    For that I think 4K will make a difference for someone like myself who does notice resolution quality.

    But yea, 2K is going to be around for a while...only reason we'll go to 4K is because eventually it will be pushed and will be marketed as vastly better than 2K and for some that's true but for most, it's the same thing again (DVD vs 720p).

    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBettaKnow View Post
    It's heaven isn't it? My current PC still plays most games High at 1080 and gets over 60fps but once the new generation is out this little machine will be lagging behind. That's why i'm planning on building a monster before that happens
    There's definitely a point where having the ability to upgrade will naturally show an advantage.

    Who knows? I don't think we'll be happy until we have a picture that is almost indistinguishable from real life. I remember I was happy with 1920x1080 but now i'm already trying to make it so I can start playing on 5760x1080.
    1080p is not good enough for sure, I totally agree...but anything 4K will be useless to you on a regular sized monitor.

    People said they were already happy with the PS3 and it couldn't possibly get any better. I bet in 6 years time will be having people saying they can't wait for the PS5 and how much nicer it will get then.
    That's true but some people really were happy with PS2 graphics even...and that's why they never bought a PS3 and a Wii instead. There will always been people that will say that they're happy but when next-gen comes, they will move on but some that really were happy with it and might opt for a handheld or a cheaper console that has ok graphics.

    Sure thing man. I think I see where you are coming from. The theoretical power of the Titan or any gpu will never be used as they are often making games for the lowest spec first and foremost with the bells and whistles being added with higher settings however my point is that games don't need to be made for a specific GPU simply because they are so quick and powerful that they can get pretty looking games no matter how inefficient it is.
    In no way am I saying that you're wrong...but it's the perspective I'm trying to get at. I'll explain later

    For now, then again PC enthusiasts and Joe Public are not the same breed of animal. Lets be honest, anyone who spends upwards of 2000 on a machine with the prime interest in gaming is not your standard consumer. They want the best. 4K maybe good now. Wait a few years. Will 4K still be as breathtaking as it is now in 10 or even 5 years time?
    4K will be great as long as you don't get anything bigger than 22"-26" monitor. It's really just a resolution and after a certain point, you won't be able to see the advantage with a naked eye.

    i.e. 1080p is probably almost useless on a 10" screen. Even we will have trouble differentiating in a double-blind test.

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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    I just set my monitr resolution to 640x480, the dialog to confirm almost fills the screen.

    Click Yes...CLICK YES!!!


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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBettaKnow View Post
    You're asking a question no one has the answer to. I don't know what GPU a PC would need to play KZ:SF at PS4 settings any more than you don't know the answer to how any PC exclusive would run on a PS4.
    True but we can somewhat make a rough guess, I mean I'm not trying to downplay anything, if there's a game on PC that looks good, I will say it looks good. All I'm saying is a rough estimate. We can start out with, is there a game on PC that looks as good or better than KZ:SF? Once you answer, we can make that a comparison point.

    As for a PC exclusive (as in) a game that uses its potential...as not all exclusives do, well, one only has to look at Crysis' fate to realize why they would never do that again.

    As I said to you before. Lets wait until the PS4/720 is released and we can compare how multiplatform games look across all platforms - yes it's not a fair comparison because it's early in the consoles life but that will at least give us something to judge.
    PS4 would likely never do better than a mid-range PC on a multiplat game unless it was designed for the PS4 and then ported over. Even then we're talking how less of an effort the developer will be putting in but there will definitely need to be an effort.

    What I will say is that PS4 will be very competitive with its exclusives (especially ones that do take advantage though regardless they should do well against the PC). That's where a PC will have a hard time competing because of the way PC market is setup.

    Exactly. Lets wait for some games to release and see how the PS4 stacks up against a Gaming PC. By gaming PC i mean a PC that PC enthusiast would play on, not entry level crap. Lets see how it would compare to a Mid-range and then High end PC. Only then will we have a better idea of where the PS4 sits.
    Sure. We can. All I'm saying is that PS4 exclusives might even keep up with the mighty Titan (primarily due to PC support and environment) because they don't have geeky developers like Polyphony Digital. i.e. GT5 still competes with the best-looking PC racers out there in some areas (car models, lighting)...and probably looks more realistic than all of them overall. Now that's a game that's designed on a 256MB Video RAM with some borrowed RAM vs however many gigs of Video Ram video cards have available on the PC market, not to mention the outdated tech on the PS3 card, PC cards today are easily far superior...like 2 generations ahead.

    How is it besides the point? The card is made for big resolutions. You can say we won't get 100% of the power out of it
    Even consoles will never extract 100% power out of it...say UC3 probably got a theoretical 90%+? (anecdotal) Either way, percentages and maxing out is pointless as they will never reach 100% because as technology goes forward, there are always easier ways to program a game.

    But for the sake of comparison: A PC card will likely never reach its potential that is anywhere near a closed-box graphics card's. Yes, you can use it for 1080p resolution and may even put on two monitors with its reserved power however, think about this. Hypothetically speaking, if they came out with a PC box (closed) and then produced a game for it, they will not only be able to blow your mind with a Titan but probably could even have multi-monitor support and still be several times better looking...I'm saying, generation difference than what Titan will be used for in a normal PC environment.

    but lets be honest, PC gaming has never needed 100% of the available power to look better than the console counterparts.
    Be careful, I never argued that. I'm not arguing about the top tier graphics. In that respect, sure you're getting the extra umph and I can understand if you don't care about the inefficiencies.

    It would be amazing if some did say "$#@! it, you need a 680 or 7970GHz MINIMUM to play this game" but then that excludes all of the gamers on older series of Nvidia cards or AMD's cards. So they make it so that everyone can play it but for those who have the faster cards are treated to my visuals and higher framerates.
    Yup, hence the issue that even if most cards are faster than the PS4's...it doesn't mean that PS4 can't compete.

    Games not being made for a specific GPU is hardly a problem.
    It's not because something isn't a problem that we are not aware of yet.

    If there was a console with a Titan in it and they sold it to you for $2000 and it had all the PC games you want and console games (speaking fantasy here), you would stop gaming on PC because your Titan (from your current scenario) will never produce graphics anywhere near the Titan (from the hypothetical scenario).

    So yeah, while the Titan could produce better graphics than even a next, next-gen console that isn't the point. Its point is to be the fastest single card GPU - What it is by some margin. Its meant to be used for big resolutions, for big resolutions it isn't overkill in the slightest. Maybe a 3 or 4 way SLI could be considered overkill but as with everything in the PC word - Overkill is relative.
    I can understand that you are happy with it but if there was a way that the potential could be used, you would never look back...but that's not going to happen.

    lol nice.
    Last edited by Omar; 04-04-2013 at 02:26.

  27. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBettaKnow View Post
    Who knows? I don't think we'll be happy until we have a picture that is almost indistinguishable from real life. I remember I was happy with 1920x1080 but now i'm already trying to make it so I can start playing on 5760x1080 and join the quadruple 120Hz monitor club (though i'm not sure what the exact resolution is when you include the radio screen)
    I think you mean the triple monitor club although if I wanted to I could extend my resolution to my TV which would mean that I would be quadruple screening but that won't be available for gaming if running in horizontal span mode. But as you know I've already got that setup with 120Hz @ 5760x1080 and the difference between a single screen and surround monitors is night and day. You should've got the Samsung setup I got when I said the deals were on. BioShock Infinite at that resolution was stunning!

    I'm sure in the next 5 or so years I'll be using 6 monitors - assuming my development career kicks off how I want it to.

    About the resolution thing though, the larger the resolution the better due to less aliasing being present on screen. Even when I was gaming at a resolution of 1024x768 back in the day, just the resolution change to that from a lower resolution showed a lot. Then the step up from 1024x768 to 1600x1200 was another big leap. The higher your resolution the less need there is to use anti-aliasing techniques and to be honest with a resolution of the newer 2560x1600/1440 monitors I rarely if ever see the need for AA to be used, maybe at 2x if you're going to nitpick.

    A small monitor that can have an extremely high DPI is much better and clearer than having a larger monitor with lower DPI thus there will be a lot less noticeable aliasing and things will also be less blurry.

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