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  1. #51
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    Oh the crow that will be ate.
    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?"
    --Kaz Hirai, CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    What the hell would you use 64 bits color for?
    Generally its 32 bits (8 bits RGB+Alpha).
    Yeah, I learned this from Photoshop. It seems we have been at 32-bit color for over 12 years now and I don't think anyone really sees the benefit of going to 48-bit or whatever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by X2 View Post
    Oh the crow that will be ate.
    Who would have thought building a solid product that serves your customer's needs would beat out money, marketing, hype, and greed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by X2 View Post
    Oh the crow that will be ate.
    Over which set of rumors?

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    Gpu vs Gpu

    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    There is a lot of things it could have that the PS4 doesn't have. Eg a real x86 core, or maybe larger texture caches etc

    We dont know.
    It will come down to the Gpus,as i said before It seems Sony wanted a bit more Gpu power and faster ram.MS is going to bet on kinect 2.0 to add to the gaming experience.Tbh both consoles will have the same performance,it will yet again fall into the hands of first party devs.

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  7. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    There is a lot of things it could have that the PS4 doesn't have. Eg a real x86 core, or maybe larger texture caches etc

    We dont know.
    We know. At this point it's all very well known.

    Also the x86 remark makes no sense to me, besides both consoles use Jaguar CPU's anyway.

    We also know a great deal about the customization that went into the GPU and CPU on the PS4 from various interviews over the past few months.

    I don't know why people cling to false hope, it's not as if I'm pulling this stuff out of thin air. The same people who put the PS4 specs out there and were 98% accurate have done the same for the Durango and it's been confirmed by numerous independent sources.

    It's very, very well vetted and nothing credible has come out which would realistically dethrone the specs we've been hearing consistently for the past months.

    At this point what one could hope for (and this applies to either machine) are changes in clock speeds. Rumor presently pegs PS4 at having 1.8-2Ghz for the CPU and I'd imagine this would also be feasible for Durango. The next Xbox could also up their GPU speed if they wouldn't mind the power draw and could keep it cool, etc.

    But the actual silicon- that's not changing imo. Not unless they want to ship it far past the PS4 launch date.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 05-12-2013 at 18:15.


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  9. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two4DaMoney View Post
    Over which set of rumors?


    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?"
    --Kaz Hirai, CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment

  10. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    We know. At this point it's all very well known.

    Also the x86 remark makes no sense to me, besides both consoles use Jaguar CPU's anyway.

    We also know a great deal about the customization that went into the GPU and CPU on the PS4 from various interviews over the past few months.

    I don't know why people cling to false hope, it's not as if I'm pulling this stuff out of thin air. The same people who put the PS4 specs out there and were 98% accurate have done the same for the Durango and it's been confirmed by numerous independent sources.

    It's very, very well vetted and nothing credible has come out which would realistically dethrone the specs we've been hearing consistently for the past months.

    At this point what one could hope for (and this applies to either machine) are changes in clock speeds. Rumor presently pegs PS4 at having 1.8-2Ghz for the CPU and I'd imagine this would also be feasible for Durango. The next Xbox could also up their GPU speed if they wouldn't mind the power draw and could keep it cool, etc.

    But the actual silicon- that's not changing imo. Not unless they want to ship it far past the PS4 launch date.
    Question: Name one legitimate source that say Jaguar cores.

    The same people who put the PS4 specs out there and were 98% accurate have done the same for the Durango and it's been confirmed by numerous independent sources.
    Not at all true, no source has ever confirmed anything to do with VGleaks/SuperDae other than VGleaks/SuperDae.


    our Orbis sources confirm the Sony side of the equation, while SuperDAE's leak - in combination with proof of his claims supplied to us behind the scenes - confirms the Durango CU count. The information there is around nine months old
    Again, I have yet to see one independant developer or other source confirm what SuperDae released.

    He may well be right, but don't be fooled into thinking somewhere along the line we got independent confirmation, because we never ever ever have.


    Last edited by mynd; 05-12-2013 at 22:34.
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  11. #59
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    This wasn't hard. At all.

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df...box-specs-leak

    DF is claiming this information is double sourced and it's not "outdated".

    To quote them:

    Jan 21st, 2013
    Originally Posted by Digital Foundry
    Website vgleaks.com is claiming a world-wide exclusive by revealing the full spec for the upcoming next-generation Xbox, codenamed Durango. While there is obviously no official substantiation for the information posted, key elements of the spec match the overall outline of the hardware we have received from trusted sources and the leaker has come forward with proof about the origins of the information - and it appears genuine.

    Feb 9th, 2013
    "Originally Posted by Digital Foundry
    Can you believe the rumours?


    How can you trust the information you are reading? Perhaps we should assess the quality of the data we have available and explain why we have confidence in it. From our perspective we see three different unique sources of information all saying much the same thing. Firstly, and most importantly, there are our own contacts in the games business, some of whom are working on next-gen console titles as we speak.

    In the case of the brush-strokes of the Durango and Orbis specs, not only do we have double-sourced information of our own, but we also have an extra form of backup in the form of these other leaks."

    So far, from I have seen, the only legitimate developer\game figure making claims to the contrary is this Blizzard cinematic animator stating that the Durango has "always had" 8GB of GDDR5 and that the PS4 "matched it".

    That's it.

    He's also given no explanation as why there would be ESRAM in this set up unless they intentionally put anemic GDDR5 into the machine. He is also, apparently, not tied by any NDA and is very open about what he "knows" and who he is.

    Maybe its not using a Jaguar CPU- but tell me, what other octacore CPU solutions are out there that make any given sense without raping power draw and thermals? Certainly nothing by Intel. I'm not even sure what IBM could offer with their PowerPC solutions but it would be the only logical fit, because it sure as hell isn't ARM.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 05-13-2013 at 04:22.


  12. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    This wasn't hard. At all.

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df...box-specs-leak

    DF is claiming this information is double sourced and it's not "outdated".

    To quote them:

    Jan 21st, 2013



    Feb 9th, 2013
    Nothing other than "key elements of the spec match the overall outline of the hardware we have received from trusted sources", what key specs?

    Its even in the first article..

    First up, let's deal with the elements of the spec we definitely know to be true: Durango features an eight-core CPU from AMD running at 1.6GHz
    Thats it. Thats all they have proof of back up for SuperDae's article.

    Again, it could be true, but Ive never ever seen independent confirmation.



    So far, from I have seen, the only legitimate developer\game figure making claims to the contrary is this Blizzard cinematic animator stating that the Durango has "always had" 8GB of GDDR5 and that the PS4 "matched it".

    That's it.

    He's also given no explanation as why there would be ESRAM in this set up unless they intentionally put anemic GDDR5 into the machine. He is also, apparently, not tied by any NDA and is very open about what he "knows" and who he is.

    Maybe its not using a Jaguar CPU- but tell me, what other octacore CPU solutions are out there that make any given sense without raping power draw and thermals? Certainly nothing by Intel. I'm not even sure what IBM could offer with their PowerPC solutions but it would be the only logical fit, because it sure as hell isn't ARM.
    Kavarei, Kabini comes to mind for starters.

    What if PS4 is Temesh and 720 is Kabini? For example.
    Last edited by mynd; 05-13-2013 at 04:41.
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  13. #61
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    Ok then skip, continue that dauntless voyage of optimism.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Ok then skip, continue that dauntless voyage of optimism.
    well you throwing the word Jaguar around with out fully understanding it..



    So far we have yet to see anything that would indicate anything other than Temash for PS4. Although it could be Kabini, but at 8 cores thats a lot of heat.

    There's also Richland on the horizon....
    Last edited by mynd; 05-13-2013 at 04:50.
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  16. #63
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    What I'm saying is, the only traction your argument has right now is -maybe- it's not using a CPU by AMD or it's using some kind of other variant or whatever.

    All the other specs are vetted by alot of people, sans Blizzard guy who only contested the memory type.

    Outside of clock adjustments, I think what we see is what we get. Don't expect anything miraculously above a 1.2TF GPU and so on.


  17. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    What I'm saying is, the only traction your argument has right now is -maybe- it's not using a CPU by AMD or it's using some kind of other variant or whatever.

    All the other specs are vetted by alot of people, sans Blizzard guy who only contested the memory type.

    Outside of clock adjustments, I think what we see is what we get. Don't expect anything miraculously above a 1.2TF GPU and so on.
    I'm trying to show you , even on the "specs" we know, that they don't go into any way shape or form enough detail to explain the exact spefics.

    Even within the Jaguar family there is room to be CPU's that have significant "extra" from other Jaguar cores, that end up with a better CPU.

    One thing we know, hands down the PS4 is an APU based system.

    Nothing we have seen would indicate that the Xbox is an APU based system.
    So , why would it have an APU based CPU in it?

    Jaguars can move form Tablet-> Dektops in power.

    You could also simply ignore Jaguar cores compeletly if you are not using an APU, and choose Richland based CPU or even the newer Vishera CPU cores.

    AMD x86 could mean....

    -Temesh (Jaguar)
    -Kabini (Jaguar)
    -Kavarai (Jaguar)
    -Richland
    -Vishera

    Whos to say what they choose.
    Last edited by mynd; 05-13-2013 at 07:43.
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  18. #65
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    Unknown AMD SoC Features 8 Bulldozer Modules, 1024 Stream Processors, 512-Bit Memory

    Mysterious Block Diagram Shows Ultra-High-Performance AMD System-on-Chip


    A block diagram released by a Chinese web-site shows an ultra-high-performance system-on-chip from Advanced Micro Devices that should offer rather extreme general-purpose performance, very high integrated graphics performance and plenty of memory bandwidth. The drawing may easily be a fake, a new illustration of Xbox Infinity SoC, a block-diagram of upcoming Kaveri-like accelerated processing unit on steroids, or an all-new new graphics processor.

    The chip, which block diagram was published by ChipHell web-site is claimed to be code-named Hawaii graphics processing unit that has sixteen serial processing units (and eight floating point units), 4096 stream processors, 256 texture units and 64 raster operating units. While installation of general-purpose/serial processing units into graphics processors seems to be a trend (since Nvidia Corp.’s Maxwell GPUs will have ARM-compatible Denver CPU cores), it does not seem that this is the case of this particular chip. In fact, it does not seem to be a GPU at all.

    Although the image of the system-on-chip is extremely blurry, it is evident (if enlarge, sharpen, filter it and then add some logic) that it has all the blocks that the next-generation accelerated processing units are supposed to have. The SoC has security co-processor (ARM Cortex-A5), AMD-V, AMD-P blocks, unified northbridge (UNB), system controller hub (SCH), HyperTransport links, PCI Express 3.0 lanes, CrossFireX interface, eight 72-bit ECC DDR3 memory controllers, display controller, eight Steamroller-class x86 modules (with two integer/SPU cores, one FPU and L2 cache), unified L3 cache as well as a decent GCN architecture-based graphics processing unit.



    The chip could easily be a next-generation Kaveri-like APU for high-end desktops as well as servers with 16 integer cores, 8 floating point units, L3 cache, graphics engine with 1024 stream processors as well as eight-channel DDR3 memory controller with ECC (which should actually support GDDR5 memory as well, based on previously published information). The default Kaveri APU should feature up to four Steamroller cores (1, 2). While the "APU on steroids" should be very large, even when made using 28nm process technology, such a chip could easily rival Intel Corp.’s Core i-series “Haswell” microprocessors in terms of performance thanks to vast general-purpose and graphics processing capabilities.

    Given the fact that 512-bit bus is a clear overkill for desktop and even server applications, the chip could be the APU of Xbox Infinity. The probability of this is pretty low since the chip has HyperTransport link, CrossFireX multi-GPU interface as well as ECC support, neither of which are needed for game consoles. At the same time, the chip does not seem to feature eDRAM or eDRAM-related logic.

    Even though the chip seems to have all the building blocks of a modern APU, it may easily be a complete fake.

    AMD did not comment on the news-story.

    http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/d...emory_Bus.html
    Last edited by X2; 05-13-2013 at 07:37.
    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?"
    --Kaz Hirai, CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment

  19. #66
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    It has already been debunked as even being possible in a console due to size, cost and power consumption.

    It appears to be a HD9970 from AMD's new 9000 series cards.
    http://uk.hardware.info/news/34922/s...-hd9970-leaked

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    What the hell would you use 64 bits color for?
    Generally its 32 bits (8 bits RGB+Alpha).
    HDR with fp16 per channel. (10-bit mantissa, 5-bit exponent)
    During rendering you need to store the information to back buffer somehow.
    Before copying the image to front buffer you tone map it to a dynamic range your monitor supports. (usually 8bit RGB, but could be 10bit RGB as well.)

    On ps3 developers usually use LogLuv, RGBE or RGBM for opaque pass and fp16 RGBA for transparent polygons. (RGBM seems to be most used for opaque nowadays.)
    On x360 fp10 formats are most used for obvious reasons. (reasonable dynamic range with full speed and blending options. (fp16 is half speed on x360))
    Last edited by jlippone; 05-13-2013 at 08:56.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    But doesnt really explain this chip, even a cursor glance tells us that they have a full 64 -bit pipeline throughout the system, I don't even know WHY!

    Look at this...



    What the hell would you use 64 bits color for?
    Generally its 32 bits (8 bits RGB+Alpha).
    I might be on about something else but didn't the PS3 have 128-bit colour?

    Sent via Codec

    "Xbox is about to become the next water cooler”

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    Quote Originally Posted by TGO View Post
    I might be on about something else but didn't the PS3 have 128-bit colour?

    Sent via Codec
    The 128bit color meant that it was possible to use fp32 RGBA buffer.
    This was of course never used, RSX was already very bandwidth limited and fp32 and even fp16 had some serious limitations as well. (no MSAA buffers, fp32 had only point sample texturing.. etc.)

    Now a days fp32 a lot better choice than it was on RSX, but is completely unnecessary for most pixel operations.
    Last edited by jlippone; 05-13-2013 at 09:08.
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    'nope, PS3 uses a wonderful low-level API called libgcm' - Repi

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    Well its a new one to me, traditionally you go fp16 r16g16.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Well its a new one to me, traditionally you go fp16 r16g16.
    You sunk my battleship!
    Who would have thought building a solid product that serves your customer's needs would beat out money, marketing, hype, and greed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Well its a new one to me, traditionally you go fp16 r16g16.
    and b16a16.

    But yes, the 128bit colour was stupid marketing at it's best.
    'no, no one in their sane mind uses OpenGL on PS3' - Repi
    'nope, PS3 uses a wonderful low-level API called libgcm' - Repi

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlippone View Post
    and b16a16.

    But yes, the 128bit colour was stupid marketing at it's best.
    It couldn't have to do with 3D rendering could it?
    Who would have thought building a solid product that serves your customer's needs would beat out money, marketing, hype, and greed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefein View Post
    It couldn't have to do with 3D rendering could it?
    Stereo 3D?
    no, it just means a bit depth of a buffer.
    'no, no one in their sane mind uses OpenGL on PS3' - Repi
    'nope, PS3 uses a wonderful low-level API called libgcm' - Repi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefein View Post
    It couldn't have to do with 3D rendering could it?
    Its all about recording a range higher than 8 bits (255) for each red green and blue component.

    When you HDR you basically pick a slice of those values to show, if its a bright scene then the dark colors all get crushed into just black, if its a dark scene then you see more of those darker colours.

    Individually you dont really notice it, but because they often try and mimic the iris and "lag" the tone mapping, you get moment where the "iris" is still used to say a dark light, and get exposed to bright scene (ie walking outside), you get "bloom" for a few seconds then it "adjusts".

    eg..



    Watch as he moves in and out of the garages.
    2play:Red Dead, GTA 4,Batman AC,Batman AO,Borderlands 2,Skyrim,Sleeping Dogs,Reckoning,Dead Island, DarkSiders 2,Dark Souls,Dead Space 2,MGS 3,MGS:PW, XCOM:EU,Hitman Absolution,Biosuck Infinite,Assassins Creed 3,Deus Ex,Castlevania, Halo Wars,Civilization,Forza Horizon,Black Ops,Black Ops 2,MW3,LA Noire,Crackdown,Dead Rising 2,Fallout 3, Fallout:NV,RE 4, Bully, Hitman HD collecton.

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