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    Marc Barry Breakdown: XBOX 720 GPU vs PS4 GPU

    I know certain people will question this, but please read before you call BS. To those that probably don't understand it hopefully Mynd can elaborate more. Cut through some of the fanboy remarks and it's actually a good read.

    Enjoy!


    Marc Barry:

    I don't care about who is an insider or not. I will go by what we see right on VGleaks and as you will see the GPU V.S. GPU WAR is over.

    Lets start here; http://www.vgleaks.com/durango-gpu-2/2/

    Now scroll to Compute, here you see vgleaks:"Each of the 12 Durango SCs has its own L1 cache,LSM(Local Shared Memory), and scheduler, AND FOUR SIMD UNITS.-"

    Now open new tab, go too: http://www.vgleaks.com/world-exclusi...is-unveiled-2/

    Scroll down Pass the GPU and Update crap and stop at vgleaks: "Each CU contains dedicated: "-ALU(32 64-bit operations per cycle)

    Now here is what all this tells us: Durango can vgleaks: " A SIMD executes a vector instruction on 64 threads at once in lockstep " their are 4x in one SC but lets use just one.
    PS4 can vgleaks: " -ALU 32 64-bit operations per cycle "
    1. (1)SIMD 64-bits ON 64 threads at once. (PER CYCLE) V.S. (1)CU 64-bits 32 threads at once.

    Threads per cycle [winner Durango with 64 threads vs PS4 32 threads ]

    2. (12)sc each on 64 threads = 768 V.s. (14)CU each 32 threads = 448 If you add the other 4CU it's = 557

    Total Threads [Winner Durango with 768 threads vs PS4 557]

    Here is why SONY wonts to code to the metal as they say. Durango under vgleaks SIMD: "Shaders no longer waste processing power-"

    SONY Knows that the PS4 and PCs old type CUs waste upto 40% - 50% of processing power. Look it up!
    So with metal-codeing they can recover maybe 30% of that. This is allso why they use 1.8TF or 14CUs V.s. (12CUs)12SCs at 1.2TF
    When you buy a car with 300BHP at 150fp torque V.S. 280HP at 280fp the lesser hp with higher torque will win every time.

    SONY added 4 CUs that are, vgleaks: " Minor boost if used FOR rendering." but i put it in for PS4boys.
    If their was a GDDR8 on PS4 it still would not help to pass Durango's computation at this point.

    Now that we are done with that, With this last GEN-systems I call out the PS3's GPU in forums as not being more powerful as the 360,I WAS RIGHT!

    It's now that time..... The Durango as it is on VGleaks is in FACT A BEAST. Without knowing what the added power of the 4x Move Engines on the GPU chip can do and I did not go into the $#@!ing Scheduler, vgleaks:" they perform an operation per vector rather an operation than per thread." wooowwwww .

    The Scheduler will not need the ducking GPU cycle to pull any of the data from 4x SIMDs, Holy $#@!!!! Well, Sony/Ps4 pray MS don't use 2xGPU. IT'S bad for you!

    THe DDR3 if it stays, it's ok! Thats where the ESRAM will come in at. A boxcar of a train can only move as fast as the head engine pulls it.

    One last thing, their are 4x SIMDs so the Scheduler can, vgleaks:" A SIMD can have up to 10 VECTORS (PS4 is 1)in flight at any time.The scheduler selects
    one or more of theses 10 candidate vectors to execute an instruction" with out the GPUs cycle count. Dam that's bad ass!!!!

    The LAVA Demo with the Nvidia GPUs, it can do that. I think with the new DEVKIT.
    The Infiltrator Demo it can do that, and yes it can do that BF4 DEMO at 1080p. You know what i like the most about this i $#@!ed on VGleaks but it was always
    Right in are FACE.vgleaks:"The company has built a powerful system, more than the WIIU" They know they know!!!!

    Also, this is where the 64 threads dp v.s. 32 threads sp of the SC AND CU. With the SC 100% efficiency! vgleaks: "FLOPs 768 ops/ clock* (1 mul + add 1)* 800 MHz = 1.2 TFlOPS" is righ x2. Old way of counting UCs and not counting the work of the SC as 2X just the work of a cu.

    MIsterxmedia: How big do you think is a possibility MS will go 2XGPU?

    Marc Berry: I can only use the data on vgleaks, so i say no for now, remember
    this is without the help of the Move engines that can pass data and work on, vgleaks: From a sub-box of a texture. To a sub-box of a 3D texture." their are more and they can do it with no penalty to the GPU. This is where they will get to do DX11,12 ray tracing from. This is not apart of the 1.2TF x2.

    I know that something was wrong, How about this, vgleaks: "This example assum what's expected to be a typical CPU load and a maximum GPU load:"
    "Three display planes (PS4 has 2)are enabled at 1080p resolution."
    "Display write-back is writing a 1080p image at 60FPS."
    That's $#@!ing 1080p x3 and one will run at 1080p 60FPS' BF4 here i come!! Do you know the work load of 3 planes. WOW! Scroll down see the blue, did anyone see that the GPU can read / write from DRAM and ESRAM at the same time.(PS4 just has one main memory) !http://www.vgleaks.com/durango-memory-system-example/

    josefajardo: Nice analysis...

    .. and its good you estimated using 1 SIMD execution for Durango, even thou an SC has 4 SIMD's, because only 1 SIMD is ever processed per cycle. That is, it takes 4 cycles to process the 4 SIMDs in an SC.

    Mistercteam: to make it simple


    12 SC = 48CU = 768 thread
    7970 = 32CU

    PS4 = 18 CU = 1/3 xbox next
    PS4 = 18 x 16 * 4 * 2flop (MADD) * 0.8Ghz = 1.843 TF
    that's why they use 7970m at the devkit

    xbox next
    12 SC = 48 CU = 3x PS4 per GPU
    XB 720 = 48 * 16 * 4 * 2flop (MADD) * 0.8 = xxxx TF
    that's why they use 7970 as devkit ( a multiple one)

    If xbox next use float then it will be more efficient
    ALU core will bigger but will be more efficient
    FLoat = less wider to operate (more efficient)
    + eSRAM + Move engine + Workload manager (L3 tile base )
    more detailed analisys from mistercteam is here: http://misterxmedia.livejournal.com/...25769#t2125769

    MIsterxmedia: So what is new for me here. We all could relax because even with 1 SOC Xbox next will be around 3.2T SP unoptimized. But i hope MS will go with 2xSOC for about about 6-7Tflops SP unoptimized. I think they will do that option because BF4 or Unreal Engine 4 needs about 3-4 TFlops + Kinect + Illuniroom + Advanced AI and so on - we need about 5-6 Tflops SP.
    Sony should also surprise with upgrade to 3.2 T SP.

    http://misterxmedia.livejournal.com/....html#comments
    Last edited by X2; 04-03-2013 at 01:59.
    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?"
    --Kaz Hirai, CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment

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    So Durango will be more effecient while PS4 will rely more on brute strength it sounds like. I think both consoles will achieve similar results but by different methods if true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by radgamer420 View Post
    So Durango will be more effecient while PS4 will rely more on brute strength it sounds like. I think both consoles will achieve similar results but by different methods if true.
    Yeah Im thinking the same thing, but people have being relying on TF alone to gauge with system is stronger than the other and that is simply not the case from reading this.
    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?"
    --Kaz Hirai, CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment

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    lol... I don't even know what much of that means but I guess it's good. I think they will have similar results like Rad said. I care less about the brute power now that i have my gaming PC but it's good info I guess.

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    Can't for geeks from both sides to come in and tear some $#@! up.

    popcorn.gif

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Can't for geeks from both sides to come in and tear some $#@! up. popcorn.gif
    Yep. Should be a real slobberknocker. lol

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    Special sauce has been confirmed....lol


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    misterxmedia
    Last edited by Two4DaMoney; 04-03-2013 at 14:42.


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    Alright, looks like no one cares lol.

    Sony geeks must be trembling.

  10. Likes Nitey likes this post
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    I thought this had been established already? 720=efficient, PS4=brute force? A system is only as good as the games it gets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost-Rhayne View Post
    I thought this had been established already? 720=efficient, PS4=brute force? A system is only as good as the games it gets.
    According to Mark Cerny recent interview, ps4 = efficient also.

    http://www.psu.com/forums/showthread...Japanese-press
    Last edited by Two4DaMoney; 04-03-2013 at 15:27.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost-Rhayne View Post
    I thought this had been established already? 720=efficient, PS4=brute force? A system is only as good as the games it gets.
    No no, the article clearly states that it may be more powerful than the PS4.

    Of course we don't know anything until it reveals but if we're going to go by rumors then we will be going with what we have. I'm assuming that he has the right data as I don't follow these rumors and wouldn't know anyway.

    Now I don't know much about architectures in detail but I do understand the basics. So I wanna see where this goes.
    Last edited by Omar; 04-03-2013 at 15:04.

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    This is desperate even for you. Look past the fanboy talk? There's nothing left

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    Well the ps4 is powerful on paper but loses quite a bit of it which is why you see a much higher TF CUs to make up for it.

    uuummmmm...Fried Beer iis a reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Two4DaMoney View Post


    misterxmedia
    I went to his site his sources ar from VGLeaks not made up by him.

    uuummmmm...Fried Beer iis a reality.

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    Wouldn't be all that shocking if xbox turns out to be more powerful. Anything is possible I guess. All questions will be answered soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Wouldn't be all that shocking if xbox turns out to be more powerful. Anything is possible I guess. All questions will be answered soon.
    Really? All signs point to it being a shocking thing as the way rumors were being interpreted was that it would use up more services and had a slower RAM with a work around to try and maybe on par with the PS4.

    Wouldn't be shocking? lol I'd be severely shocked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Really? All signs point to it being a shocking thing as the way rumors were being interpreted was that it would use up more services and had a slower RAM with a work around to try and maybe on par with the PS4.

    Wouldn't be shocking? lol I'd be severely shocked.
    If it does turn out to be true then some will have learned a lesson. I won't be as shocked because MS hasn't said a word yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    If it does turn out to be true then some will have learned a lesson. I won't be as shocked because MS hasn't said a word yet.
    They have something up there sleeve which is why they havent said much which will give Sony time to reacrt to what they're doing.

    uuummmmm...Fried Beer iis a reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    If it does turn out to be true then some will have learned a lesson. I won't be as shocked because MS hasn't said a word yet.
    True and the funny thing is that it is the same thing vice versa lol. That's what we do here on the forums.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sith View Post
    They have something up there sleeve which is why they havent said much which will give Sony time to reacrt to what they're doing.
    No, that's not how it works. If they didn't respond, it means that they either have something up their sleeves or they don't. That's why it's called a bluff. It doesn't necessarily mean anything definite.

    Otherwise the media would be all over what MS is hiding from us and ignore what Sony has already shown. It's a bluff and they might either have something there or they might not.

    Or a third reason that I believe, which is that they don't want to be in a war that Sony wants them to be in. They want to do their own thing because they might not be ready for a pre-reveal.

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    The only thing I can say is the VGleaks specs doesn't really match up with much if any of the current GPU/GCN stuff form AMD. Its something different.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    The only thing I can say is the VGleaks specs doesn't really match up with much if any of the current GPU/GCN stuff form AMD. Its something different.
    Laymen's terms. There must be some people that don't know what's going on lol. What is your conclusion! So something is different from something, what does that mean!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Laymen's terms. There must be some people that don't know what's going on lol. What is your conclusion! So something is different from something, what does that mean!!!
    It means either VGleaks is BS, or this is a different approach than GCN

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    VGLeaks were pretty spot on about the ps4 specs no? Except for the 8gb but that seemed a surprise for most

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitey View Post
    VGLeaks were pretty spot on about the ps4 specs no? Except for the 8gb but that seemed a surprise for most
    But doesnt really explain this chip, even a cursor glance tells us that they have a full 64 -bit pipeline throughout the system, I don't even know WHY!

    Look at this...

    The CB is optimized for 64-bit-per-pixel types, so there is no local performance advantage in using smaller color formats, although there may still be a substantial bandwidth savings.
    What the hell would you use 64 bits color for?
    Generally its 32 bits (8 bits RGB+Alpha).
    Last edited by mynd; 04-04-2013 at 01:34.

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