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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by HellsJester View Post
    You would be surprised of the amount of Indie games that use UE3.

    So far these are using UE4
    -Daylight
    -Fortnite
    -Primal Carnage: Genesis

    Borderlands games use Unreal engine as well so dont be surprised if Borderlands 3 uses UE4.
    Knack seems to use UE4 as well.
    -------
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    The Truth on OpenGL Driver Quality
    Things that drive me nuts about OpenGL

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naxi View Post
    The thing is those developers never used the Unreal Engine to begin with. EA, Capcom and Activision still have games published with UE3.
    Why would anyone use UE4 at this time anyway?

  3. #28
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    An EPIC dev posted an update to this
    Brian Karis, senior graphics programmer at Epic Games adds some more insight in the comments below, explaining some of the more obvious differences - particularly in terms of the very different lighting schemes. At the technical level, the two demos are closer than it seems:

    "The biggest changes actually came from the merging of two separate cinematics, the original Elemental and the extended Elemental we showed at PS4's launch event. Each had different sun directions and required some compromises to join them. This resulted in some major lighting differences that aren't platform related but were due to it being a joined cinematic. Another effect, in the original you could see the mountains through the door where in the merged one we made the view through the door white since the mountains outside were no longer the same. Same deal with the mountain fly by. The old mountain range doesn't exist in the new one. These changes from the merge make direct comparisons somewhat inaccurate.

    "Feature wise most everything is the same, AA resolution, meshes, textures (PS4 has tons of memory), DOF (I assure you both use the same Bokeh DOF, not sure why that one shot has different focal range), motion blur.

    "Biggest differences are SVOGI has been replaced with a more efficient GI solution, a slight scale down in the number of particles for some FX, and tessellation is broken on ps4 in the current build which the lava used for displacement. We will fix the tessellation in the future."
    TL;DR:
    Tesselation wasn't running on ps4 yet and is to be fixed
    Different lighting conditions (sun directions changed) and more 'efficient' GI
    Different mountain formation
    anomaly in a screenshot that doesn't show DoF
    slight scale down in particles

    Gifs illustrate lighting changes. Mostly ps4 is just darker since the old demo had better ambient lighting.
    http://www.upload.ee/image/3202626/background.gif
    http://www.upload.ee/image/3202625/sammas.gif
    http://www.upload.ee/image/3202621/uks.gif
    http://www.upload.ee/image/3202624/koll.gif

    Those disheartened by particle scale down, this is running on ps4 apparently (paradox engine)
    Last edited by Itachi; 04-04-2013 at 15:41.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    An EPIC dev posted an update to this
    Brian Karis, senior graphics programmer at Epic Games adds some more insight in the comments below, explaining some of the more obvious differences - particularly in terms of the very different lighting schemes. At the technical level, the two demos are closer than it seems:

    "The biggest changes actually came from the merging of two separate cinematics, the original Elemental and the extended Elemental we showed at PS4's launch event. Each had different sun directions and required some compromises to join them. This resulted in some major lighting differences that aren't platform related but were due to it being a joined cinematic. Another effect, in the original you could see the mountains through the door where in the merged one we made the view through the door white since the mountains outside were no longer the same. Same deal with the mountain fly by. The old mountain range doesn't exist in the new one. These changes from the merge make direct comparisons somewhat inaccurate.

    "Feature wise most everything is the same, AA resolution, meshes, textures (PS4 has tons of memory), DOF (I assure you both use the same Bokeh DOF, not sure why that one shot has different focal range), motion blur.

    "Biggest differences are SVOGI has been replaced with a more efficient GI solution, a slight scale down in the number of particles for some FX, and tessellation is broken on ps4 in the current build which the lava used for displacement. We will fix the tessellation in the future."

    they'll fix that $#@! right now!

    i ain't going back to those flat surfaces

    on topic, if Tessellation is broken, does that mean the demo DOES NOT max the console? tessellation has a noticeable performance hit.
    Sig courtesy of the_jim


  5. #30
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    I updated post #28 with some stuff

    and yeah this confirms that the demo was rushed. Wait till E3 to see what epic has in store

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Why would anyone use UE4 at this time anyway?
    Development is getting harder, 3rd party middleware simplifies that. It seems like this gen used a lot more 3rd party stuff than last gen, although that might be wrong.

    My name isn't a misspelled Nazi,god****.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naxi View Post
    Development is getting harder, 3rd party middleware simplifies that. It seems like this gen used a lot more 3rd party stuff than last gen, although that might be wrong.
    Ok I see what you're saying now. I misunderstood your post.

    My answer is, did Activision/Capcom use UE3 to its full potential? I know COD didn't.

    Not to mention, we've known for quite some time that UE4 was not optimized on the PS4 and was done with older specs in mind.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Ok I see what you're saying now. I misunderstood your post.

    My answer is, did Activision/Capcom use UE3 to its full potential? I know COD didn't.

    Not to mention, we've known for quite some time that UE4 was not optimized on the PS4 and was done with older specs in mind.
    Both posts had separate points. He said 3rd party developers are using their own engines now, but the devs he listed never used UE to begin with. Only DICE used UE3 for Mirror's Edge, but they had Frostbite before and now the sequel is supposed to use FB.

    CoD uses a modified ID tech engine though, not UE3.

    My name isn't a misspelled Nazi,god****.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naxi View Post
    Both posts had separate points. He said 3rd party developers are using their own engines now, but the devs he listed never used UE to begin with. Only DICE used UE3 for Mirror's Edge, but they had Frostbite before and now the sequel is supposed to use FB.

    CoD uses a modified ID tech engine though, not UE3.
    Oh...I always thought it was a modified UE3 engine...

    Either way, the engine can be improved with the final specs and it's really not big of a deal when most PCs won't be utilizing the power of UE4 either...if there is a slight difference in the final engine, it would still be a huge win as the PC version is based off a very powerful video card.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Why would anyone use UE4 at this time anyway?
    UE4 has very good tool chain, here's a list of some changes.


    - Make updates directly in game without ever pausing gameplay with Hot Reload. This tool allows you to quickly find and edit C++ code and see those changes reflected immediately in game.

    - After an update is made, Instant Game Preview gives you the power to spawn a player and play anywhere in game without needing to wait for files to save.

    - The all-new Code View saves you time by allowing you to browse C++ functions directly on game characters then jump straight to source code lines in Visual Studio to make changes.

    - Live Kismet Debugging enables you to interactively visualize the flow of gameplay code while testing your game.

    - Now you can quickly debug and update gameplay behaviors when they happen through the new Simulate Mode. This tool lets you run game logic in the editor viewport and inspect AI as the game characters perform actions.

    - View your game in full-screen within the editing environment with the Immersive View tool. This allows programmers to complete iterations on gameplay changes without added UI clutter or distractions.

    - Possess/Eject Features allow at any time while playing in editor to easily “eject” from the player and take control of the camera to inspect specific in-game objects that may not be behavin
    Last edited by jlippone; 04-04-2013 at 18:17.
    -------
    Couple of nice blog posts about OpenGL.
    The Truth on OpenGL Driver Quality
    Things that drive me nuts about OpenGL

  11. #36
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    If there's one thing that UE3 has over many middleware is the fact that it is unbelievably easy to use, in fact it's the easiest engine I've ever used (personally) and you can do so much in such little time. The community and support in general is also top notch and frankly you wouldn't find better or would be hard pressed to. But like someone has already mentioned UE3 has an absolutely massive Indie following and the UDK environment is probably the most widely used on the net.

    Whether the demo for the PS4 will be better at E3 or not doesn't really matter, the fact is that Epic will be updating the engine regularly and will only get better. They've only just started working with the PS4 (like many others) so you'll just have to give them time to work on the engine for it. Having said that it shouldn't be too much of a problem hardware wise as it's similar to a PC now itself.

    Also I hate the fact that people are always going "oh look, it runs amazing on a GTX680 compared to the PS4 which is going to be a little bit cheaper than that one card", please think about this logically people, in 2 years time the GTX680 will cost you less than 150.

    On the listing of the companies that use game engines - Bethesda have never used Unreal Engine as they have only used GameBryo, their published games from other developers though is a different story. SquareEnix is another example, they themselves have never used the engine too except their own however other studios under their umbrella have. I could go on and on but that list given means nothing to the discussion as those developers weren't even using Unreal Engine in the first place.

  12. #37
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    Guys:

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/di...ne-4-ps4-vs-pc


    Brian Karis, senior graphics programmer at Epic Games adds some more insight in the comments below, explaining some of the more obvious differences - particularly in terms of the very different lighting schemes. At the technical level, the two demos are closer than it seems:"The biggest changes actually came from the merging of two separate cinematics, the original Elemental and the extended Elemental we showed at PS4's launch event. Each had different sun directions and required some compromises to join them. This resulted in some major lighting differences that aren't platform related but were due to it being a joined cinematic. Another effect, in the original you could see the mountains through the door where in the merged one we made the view through the door white since the mountains outside were no longer the same. Same deal with the mountain fly by. The old mountain range doesn't exist in the new one. These changes from the merge make direct comparisons somewhat inaccurate.
    "Feature wise most everything is the same, AA resolution, meshes, textures (PS4 has tons of memory), DOF (I assure you both use the same Bokeh DOF, not sure why that one shot has different focal range), motion blur.
    "Biggest differences are SVOGI has been replaced with a more efficient GI solution, a slight scale down in the number of particles for some FX, and tessellation is broken on ps4 in the current build which the lava used for displacement. We will fix the tessellation in the future."
    Bottom line, the only real differences performance wise were SVOGI being nixed in favor of Global Illumination, 'slight scale down' for particles and they hadn't properly implemented tesselation yet.

    According to Epic, PS4 matches the GTX 680 blow for blow pretty damn well. That's a positive sign imho.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 04-05-2013 at 01:45.


  13. #38
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    Well there you go. Everyone calm down lol

  14. #39
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    PS4 has tons of memory, lol. 8GB GDDR5 might be bigger than even Sony anticipated.

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    The Unreal Engine has always improved... just like games in general as a console generation ages. I don't expect anything different with the PS4.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickice View Post
    PS4 has tons of memory, lol. 8GB GDDR5 might be bigger than even Sony anticipated.
    So more RAM means better graphics? Dammit I should have bought 32gig of RAM instead of a gtx 670.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlippone View Post
    Knack seems to use UE4 as well.
    *looks it up* You are correct.
    I got my list from Wikipedia. Looks like someone needs to edit the page.





  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by reasonable_doubt View Post
    So more RAM means better graphics? Dammit I should have bought 32gig of RAM instead of a gtx 670.
    In this instance it can do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reasonable_doubt View Post
    So more RAM means better graphics? Dammit I should have bought 32gig of RAM instead of a gtx 670.
    Your DDR3 is not GDDR5. I'm glad you have a complete lack of understanding of the PS4 architecture though and its memory bandwidth allocation.
    "The biggest adversary in our life is ourselves. We are what we are, in a sense, because of the dominating thoughts we allow to gather in our head. All concepts of self-improvement, all actions and paths we take, relate solely to our abstract image of ourselves. Life is limited only by how we really see ourselves and feel about our being. A great deal of pure self-knowledge and inner understanding allows us to lay an all-important foundation for the structure of our life from which we can perceive and take the right avenues.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by reasonable_doubt View Post
    So more RAM means better graphics?
    If it's been used for graphics on a closed machine, yes it can mean just that.
    It allows developers use different methods when compared to memory constrained system.

    IE.
    For things like texture or voxel based lighting methods one could create acceleration structures or lighting information early and higher resolution (spatial and directional) for larger area and thus reduce computation load.
    -------
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  22. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeanutButterMunky View Post
    Your DDR3 is not GDDR5. I'm glad you have a complete lack of understanding of the PS4 architecture though and its memory bandwidth allocation.
    his gtx 670 is GDDR5 though

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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    his gtx 670 is GDDR5 though
    You missed my point entirely.
    "The biggest adversary in our life is ourselves. We are what we are, in a sense, because of the dominating thoughts we allow to gather in our head. All concepts of self-improvement, all actions and paths we take, relate solely to our abstract image of ourselves. Life is limited only by how we really see ourselves and feel about our being. A great deal of pure self-knowledge and inner understanding allows us to lay an all-important foundation for the structure of our life from which we can perceive and take the right avenues.

  24. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeanutButterMunky View Post
    You missed my point entirely.
    He mentioned GPU so why did you even bring up DDR3?
    Secondly you assumed for no reason that he doesn't understand ps4's UMA to his PC's dedicated memory setup and its bandwith implications

  25. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    He mentioned GPU so why did you even bring up DDR3?
    And you still don't get the point.
    "The biggest adversary in our life is ourselves. We are what we are, in a sense, because of the dominating thoughts we allow to gather in our head. All concepts of self-improvement, all actions and paths we take, relate solely to our abstract image of ourselves. Life is limited only by how we really see ourselves and feel about our being. A great deal of pure self-knowledge and inner understanding allows us to lay an all-important foundation for the structure of our life from which we can perceive and take the right avenues.

  26. #50
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    He's trying to say that it doesn't work like that on the PC, you have to have a graphics card (which uses GDDR) and you can't just solely have your main motherboard RAM (which is DDR only), so having 32GB of DDR instead of a GFX card is pointless and is much slower anyway even if you had an IGP crappy solution - which uses DDR only.

    However if you he does get 32GB DDR pass it my way, I want to use that for modelling and rendering large outdoor areas!

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