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  1. #126
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    I am thinking that MS is riding a rumor train since they are not talking about it. Even bad publicity is still publicity, and they can always crush the rumor at E3.
    FLASHIN ON YOU

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    what does mr. lake mean by this?
    The the other rumors might be close?


    Now regardless of this being true or not...because there is 40% people out there without internet, does that also mean that they're in the market for buying a console?

    Are we selling these consoles to the other 60%? Nope and nope.
    I didnt say 40% have no Internet. Stop making shit up then arguing against your own words you put in my mouth. Go read the actual words I wrote.

  3. Likes Yungstar 2006 wishes they had posted this first.
  4. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by kflashin View Post
    I am thinking that MS is riding a rumor train since they are not talking about it. Even bad publicity is still publicity, and they can always crush the rumor at E3.
    Really bad gamble. The dialogue has been switching gears somewhat from not just how terrible this would be for the next Xbox to how people have been losing their faith in the Xbox brand for the past two years.

    When you think about it, the internet isn't really full of people begging MS not to do this so much as saying it is the last straw. Watching someone take an axe to their 360 before any of this is officially confirmed one way or the other is pretty damning evidence at how much MS has challenged people's loyalty long before this debacle broke loose.

    Just an observation.


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    This is the biggest load of bollocks I have read in a long time!
    Sent from my computer using keyboard.

  6. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typical guy View Post
    I didnt say 40% have no Internet. Stop making shit up then arguing against your own words you put in my mouth. Go read the actual words I wrote.
    40% of Americans don't have high speed Internet or live in areas with stable Internet. Is MS really going to "give away" 40% of its install base to Sony?
    So you're saying they have 56k? What else do you mean by that? I also don't get what you mean by stable internet.

    P.S. Do you wake up on the wrong side of the bed every day?

  7. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefein View Post
    Watching someone take an axe to their 360 before any of this is officially confirmed one way or the other is pretty damning evidence at how much MS has challenged people's loyalty long before this debacle broke loose. Just an observation.
    lol A pretty ridiculous observation if youre actually taking that video seriously and calling that evidence at all much less damning evidence. People have been making smashing console videos for both systems for years now stating various reasons that usually have something to do with whatever negative press said console is getting at that time. Thats really reaching long even for you Lefein. lol I agree with the other part of your post which is why I left it out of my quote.
    Last edited by mistercrow; 04-06-2013 at 21:14.

  8. #132
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    Doesnt disprove what I said regarding that video. And read the last part of my previous post. I never said people werent getting discouraged with the Xbox brand only that the video is just another You Tube parody. So to call it damning evidence of anything is ridiculous. Its the kind of You Tube entertainment we always see whenever a console is getting bad press over something be it RROD, YLOD, PSN outages or this.
    Last edited by mistercrow; 04-06-2013 at 21:22.

  9. #133
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    Fair enough. You got to me before I deleted that. Figured likning to another forum was poor form on my behalf. Yeah, the guy freaking out on his Xbox may have been isolated, but a LOT of people are talking about how they are about one if:then statement from ditching Xbox.

    It's not just one stupid video. The dialogue about gaming is changing. The timing is just bad for all of this with Sim City having such a borked launch not too long ago. It's a sore spot and consoles should be simplified forms of gaming. This always connected stuff seems to bridge the gap between a friendly device you hook up to your TV and play and some kind of fun-leeching vampire device.


  10. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefein View Post
    Fair enough. You got to me before I deleted that. Figured likning to another forum was poor form on my behalf. Yeah, the guy freaking out on his Xbox may have been isolated, but a LOT of people are talking about how they are about one if:then statement from ditching Xbox. It's not just one stupid video. The dialogue about gaming is changing. The timing is just bad for all of this with Sim City having such a borked launch not too long ago. It's a sore spot and consoles should be simplified forms of gaming. This always connected stuff seems to bridge the gap between a friendly device you hook up to your TV and play and some kind of fun-leeching vampire device.
    Yeah I definitely agree with you there. I've already been leaning towards PS4 anyway but this stuff would definitely seal the deal for me going PS4 only.
    Last edited by mistercrow; 04-06-2013 at 21:31.

  11. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    what does mr. lake mean by this?
    The the other rumors might be close?


    Now regardless of this being true or not...because there is 40% people out there without internet, does that also mean that they're in the market for buying a console?

    Are we selling these consoles to the other 60%? Nope and nope.
    Maybe he heard this..which seems to get overlooked in the original Kotaku article...


    That said, a caution and a caveat: other sources familiar with the codenamed Durango console have told us that they are still unaware of any Microsoft plans regarding an online requirement. No one has been able to say it's not true and some have speculated that this is required at the operating system level and therefore isn't something Microsoft has to tell all developers or retail partners.
    Who know what he has heard..
    Why have some devs apparently never heard of it, and the ones that have seem vague...

    Again, its rumor until such time as it isn't.

    If I had money to put down, I'd say there may be a digital distribution model that requires this, while disc based solution doesn't.

    Now if that "model" is a differing console" or simply a business practice I have no idea.
    Last edited by mynd; 04-06-2013 at 21:37.
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  12. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    M<aybe he heard this..which seems to get overlooked in the original Kotaku article...




    Who know what he has heard..
    Why have some devs apparently never heard of it, and the ones that have seem vague...

    Again, its rumor until such time as it isn't.

    If I had money to put down, I'd say there may be a digital distribution model that requires this, while disc based solution doesn't.

    Now if that "model" is a differing console" or simply a business practice I have no idea.
    What does it mean when they say that it may be required at the OS level?

  13. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    So you're saying they have 56k? What else do you mean by that? I also don't get what you mean by stable internet.

    P.S. Do you wake up on the wrong side of the bed every day?
    Yes, they have no Internet, dial up, or really spotty "high speed" (less than 1 megabit dsl). I have family in a county in the Appalachian mountains that that is very rural. Has no cell phone towers other than at a ski resort. No cable tv - people use satellite dishes. As for high speed, they don't even have DSL and to make matters worse they have to call a long distance number for dial up.

  14. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typical guy View Post
    Yes, they have no Internet, dial up, or really spotty "high speed" (less than 1 megabit dsl). I have family in a county in the Appalachian mountains that that is very rural. Has no cell phone towers other than at a ski resort. No cable tv - people use satellite dishes. As for high speed, they don't even have DSL and to make matters worse they have to call a long distance number for dial up.
    Ok so what do you think I'm talking about? That's what I said. Just because these people have no internet (or as you say dial up or whatever, not much difference right? It's still not practical to have the requirements that are set by today's consoles), doesn't necessarily mean that all of them are willing to buy a console. So it depends how many of these 40% people are in the market to buy the next-gen consoles to begin with.

    So even if MS does do this (which I highly doubt they will as I don't see a huge advantage other than DRM) then they may not be giving up much anyway.

    It's the people who have an internet and are in the market to buy the next-gen that would be the problem. I wouldn't mind if Sony or MS did that but there was some benefit to us...which I can't think of much at the moment but it's possible that they could streamline a lot of things and this could be a good tool for them to know what we want so they can better present their products. Some people don't like that, I don't care if it's there or not.

    Now just for the sake of DRM, that'd be stupid and unnecessary but I highly doubt that'd be the only reason if it were to happen.

  15. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    What does it mean when they say that it may be required at the OS level?
    The firmware, as opposed to the game programmer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Ok so what do you think I'm talking about? That's what I said. Just because these people have no internet (or as you say dial up or whatever, not much difference right? It's still not practical to have the requirements that are set by today's consoles), doesn't necessarily mean that all of them are willing to buy a console. So it depends how many of these 40% people are in the market to buy the next-gen consoles to begin with.

    So even if MS does do this (which I highly doubt they will as I don't see a huge advantage other than DRM) then they may not be giving up much anyway.

    It's the people who have an internet and are in the market to buy the next-gen that would be the problem. I wouldn't mind if Sony or MS did that but there was some benefit to us...which I can't think of much at the moment but it's possible that they could streamline a lot of things and this could be a good tool for them to know what we want so they can better present their products. Some people don't like that, I don't care if it's there or not.

    Now just for the sake of DRM, that'd be stupid and unnecessary but I highly doubt that'd be the only reason if it were to happen.
    What I'm getting at is that they'd be abandoning part of their install base and handing them over to Sony. Not everyone connects their Xbox 360 to the Internet (even among those that can). Not everyone wants to. I connect my console but primarily play single player games. My daughter plays kids games (once upon a monster, etc) under her profile and it is not profiled to go to XBL as a gold or silver member. I will not, I repeat, WILL NOT buy a console that requires you to go online to play single player experiences. There's not a reason in this world my kids needs to be online with a video game console.

  17. #141
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    How about this....

    Last gen MS released two model, to cover 2 demographics, the cheaper "core" and the top end "pro".

    What if...


    1/ The new "Core" is a set-top disc-less, internet device capable of playing the same games, but its internet only "$199" -small hdd.

    2/ The new "pro" is a traditional console running a disc based system, same features as above, but disc based games do not require a net connection? Large HDD.


    Ties in with discs as a medium for delivery and must be installed to HDD.
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  18. Likes YoungMullah88 wishes they had posted this first.
  19. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    How about this....

    Last gen MS released two model, to cover 2 demographics, the cheaper "core" and the top end "pro".

    What if...


    1/ The new "Core" is a set-top disc-less, internet device capable of playing the same games, but its internet only "$199" -small hdd.

    2/ The new "pro" is a traditional console running a disc based system, same features as above, but disc based games do not require a net connection? Large HDD.


    Ties in with discs as a medium for delivery and must be installed to HDD.
    I just can't see that happening. Why would they have a disc-less xbox with a small hard drive? That one would need a HUGE hard drive. If they're pumping out 50GB games on dual layered BR discs they're going to need hundreds and hundreds of gigs of space for downloads.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Typical guy View Post
    I just can't see that happening. Why would they have a disc-less xbox with a small hard drive? That one would need a HUGE hard drive.
    If you need a huge hard dirve, but the pro.
    If they're pumping out 50GB games on dual layered BR discs they're going to need hundreds and hundreds of gigs of space for downloads.
    And 250gb HDD would hold a 3-4 games plus movies easy enough.
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  21. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    If you need a huge hard dirve, but the pro.

    And 250gb HDD would hold a 3-4 games plus movies easy enough.
    The arcade machine played only discs and some very small downloads. It didn't need a hard drive because it was never intended to be used for lots of downloads or for regular online play. It was the console for the offline gamer. This is the exact opposite of what you're proposing.

    I don't understand your logic at all. Any gamer that would chose a disc-less console would presumably be connected to the net a lot and would likely download games a good bit. 3 or 4 games or even 5 or 6 just isn't enough. Imagine if someone has maybe, some Halo game, some COD game, maybe Forza or some other racing game, then you have 3 games right there that they may be using on a regular basis. Then that doesn't leave much space for new games or any single player only campaigns. I feel sorry for Alan Wake 2 in this scenario as it won't be purchased since the HDD space will need to be treated like a precious commodity and rationed out.

  22. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typical guy View Post
    What I'm getting at is that they'd be abandoning part of their install base and handing them over to Sony. Not everyone connects their Xbox 360 to the Internet (even among those that can). Not everyone wants to. I connect my console but primarily play single player games. My daughter plays kids games (once upon a monster, etc) under her profile and it is not profiled to go to XBL as a gold or silver member. I will not, I repeat, WILL NOT buy a console that requires you to go online to play single player experiences. There's not a reason in this world my kids needs to be online with a video game console.
    That's what I was saying lol. But I think the part of the segment that will have an issue is the one that you're describing and I was too...the one that has the internet. Now true some people don't want to connect but someone from their family must be connecting on these devices or it's pointless to get them for offline games only. So taking your example, even if your daughters aren't playing it online, you must be and you must've been the one who bought the console to begin with.

    I know some people buy the 360 even if they didn't utilize Live but I'd think these people were a fraction. Or why not just buy something cheaper (phone, handheld) or there's always PC.

    Especially for next-gen I think we'll see even lesser people who are solely buying it for single player games and not want to connect online.

    However, yes I don't see them doing it either way but I do see this happening more in the future. I could see some benefits but most of them will be directly affecting the console makers/publishers/devs and we can only hope that what they gain, the give us a share too by investing more into games.

    The future is definitely scary but I don't think they'll go hardcore into it...little by little though.

    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    How about this....

    Last gen MS released two model, to cover 2 demographics, the cheaper "core" and the top end "pro".

    What if...


    1/ The new "Core" is a set-top disc-less, internet device capable of playing the same games, but its internet only "$199" -small hdd.

    2/ The new "pro" is a traditional console running a disc based system, same features as above, but disc based games do not require a net connection? Large HDD.


    Ties in with discs as a medium for delivery and must be installed to HDD.
    Plausible but I'm trying to think if it will hurt the user base or developers with optimization. Nothing comes to mind at this point but I donno.

    They're sort of already doing that, day 1 digital releases...and yes you wouldn't need a disc drive for it and I could see that being attractive with the mainstream...i mean, the new $99 deal is very non-traditional. Almost like a cell phone deal but very clever indeed and I believe it works.

    MS has been very clever with pricing this generation. That's a large part of why they've been doing so well against Sony. It's amazing to see them holding off Sony up until now with all the tricks they have up their sleeves. I can't imagine how many PS3s would be sold with a deal like $99 as long as you have PS+ subscription for two years.

    Sony needs to just copy their pricing model...but I donno their plans or what's going inside and can't speak for them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Typical guy View Post
    I just can't see that happening. Why would they have a disc-less xbox with a small hard drive? That one would need a HUGE hard drive. If they're pumping out 50GB games on dual layered BR discs they're going to need hundreds and hundreds of gigs of space for downloads.
    I agree...UNLESS they do something like cloud-based games?
    Last edited by Sufi; 04-07-2013 at 00:26.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    I agree...UNLESS they do something like cloud-based games?
    Cloud gaming can work BUT they can't go full tilt with it. What Sony is doing by letting you play while your game downloads is one thing but imagine maybe 10 million people all streaming 1080p 5.1 surround sound content from MS servers. The games are going to look like shit because of performance and bandwidth issues. If you think Sim City was a disaster, imagine a new Halo game launching and millions of people trying to stream it with little to nothing installed on their own HDD.

    Another issue is the bandwith that most customers can use. I have 25 megabit download and I still get buffering problems with HD content on netflix at times and especially with VUDU when I stream their "HDX" content (1080p with 5.1 surround). I probably need 50 megabits to make all that work great. Even with a 50 megabit connection if I have one person streaming a game and another streaming video content then I'm still going to run into issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Typical guy View Post
    The arcade machine played only discs and some very small downloads. It didn't need a hard drive because it was never intended to be used for lots of downloads or for regular online play. It was the console for the offline gamer. This is the exact opposite of what you're proposing.

    I don't understand your logic at all. Any gamer that would chose a disc-less console would presumably be connected to the net a lot and would likely download games a good bit. 3 or 4 games or even 5 or 6 just isn't enough. Imagine if someone has maybe, some Halo game, some COD game, maybe Forza or some other racing game, then you have 3 games right there that they may be using on a regular basis. Then that doesn't leave much space for new games or any single player only campaigns. I feel sorry for Alan Wake 2 in this scenario as it won't be purchased since the HDD space will need to be treated like a precious commodity and rationed out.
    Buy the pro then.
    The net connected machine is aimed squarely at the cheaper/casual crowd demographic. Those that want play some games, but mostly want an entertainment device.
    I got to stress I think this model will only be sold inside US at launch, and the the pro will be the one that goes up against Sony's PS4.

    I would also think that you could have a Pro, and daisy chain a "net" machine elsewhere in the house off it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typical guy View Post
    Cloud gaming can work BUT they can't go full tilt with it. What Sony is doing by letting you play while your game downloads is one thing but imagine maybe 10 million people all streaming 1080p 5.1 surround sound content from MS servers. The games are going to look like shit because of performance and bandwidth issues. If you think Sim City was a disaster, imagine a new Halo game launching and millions of people trying to stream it with little to nothing installed on their own HDD.
    So you're saying Gakai or whatever, is special sauce? I highly doubt it.

    Maybe you're right but you don't think they could get a good server? How bad could it be?

    Another issue is the bandwith that most customers can use. I have 25 megabit download and I still get buffering problems with HD content on netflix at times and especially with VUDU when I stream their "HDX" content (1080p with 5.1 surround). I probably need 50 megabits to make all that work great. Even with a 50 megabit connection if I have one person streaming a game and another streaming video content then I'm still going to run into issues.
    I have 8mbits, never any issues...but then most of my stuff is not wireless although my roku barely ever gets issues and i think the issues have to do with placement. I could see problems wireless but if you have a wire, I see no issues.

    But yea, something that wouldn't work at this point I presume. Too early for that.

    I wouldn't mind a console like that though...if it's dirt cheap and can display really good graphics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Buy the pro then.
    The net connected machine is aimed squarely at the cheaper/casual crowd demographic. Those that want play some games, but mostly want an entertainment device.
    I got to stress I think this model will only be sold inside US at launch, and the the pro will be the one that goes up against Sony's PS4.

    I would also think that you could have a Pro, and daisy chain a "net" machine elsewhere in the house off it.
    I just don't think this is going to happen. I think the casual crowd wants a disk drive. Most gamers want to buy in stores.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    So you're saying Gakai or whatever, is special sauce? I highly doubt it.

    Maybe you're right but you don't think they could get a good server? How bad could it be?


    I have 8mbits, never any issues...but then most of my stuff is not wireless although my roku barely ever gets issues and i think the issues have to do with placement. I could see problems wireless but if you have a wire, I see no issues.

    But yea, something that wouldn't work at this point I presume. Too early for that.

    I wouldn't mind a console like that though...if it's dirt cheap and can display really good graphics.
    I'm using WiFi for this. Are you streaming 1080p and 5.1 surround sound? Most content streamed is compressed and looks worse than true 1080p. Also a lot of that content doesn't support surround sound.

    edit: For that matter, even when I use my PC which is plugged directly into the router, I get buffering issues if I watch 1080p content on youtube..
    Last edited by Typical guy; 04-07-2013 at 00:44.

  27. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zswordsman View Post
    If they do this, they basically killed their third world market. Internet is crap in many third world nations.
    Including USA.
    This is a local shop for local people you have no business here!

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