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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Buy the pro then.
    The net connected machine is aimed squarely at the cheaper/casual crowd demographic. Those that want play some games, but mostly want an entertainment device.
    I got to stress I think this model will only be sold inside US at launch, and the the pro will be the one that goes up against Sony's PS4.

    I would also think that you could have a Pro, and daisy chain a "net" machine elsewhere in the house off it.
    You know what, I definitely see a possibility of two different versions from MS. The arcade is pretty much that and it worked really well even though I didn't agree with it at first. I still don't but a large part of their user base does not care for that. I believe in standardization, however, both strategies worked well for both companies.

    I can definitely see MS going with a lower model right away as it's working for them as we speak with the 360 but whatever they come up with, shouldn't really limit developers, it will be targeted towards the mainstream. So not having a hard drive wouldn't be a huge deal as it has worked in the past...we have pretty cheap SD cards now with large quantities.

    MS wants a strong console for dirt cheap and Sony can't afford to go down that route, Nintendo doesn't know how to do that well.

  2. #152
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    Sufi, set this to 1080p and run it. My stream catches up with it and I'm plugged into my router with my PC.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01mzsec1wF8

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typical guy View Post
    I just don't think this is going to happen. I think the casual crowd wants a disk drive. Most gamers want to buy in stores.
    What like ipads, and android games eh?

    Market has moved on, MS understand this, so does Sony...just you watch....
    Sony want indie devs..why?
    They aren't going to ever package you game up on disc and sell it. EVER.

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  5. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typical guy View Post
    I just don't think this is going to happen. I think the casual crowd wants a disk drive. Most gamers want to buy in stores.
    Well, what about SD cards? And having a tiny HDD worked wonders for MS.

    I'm using WiFi for this. Are you streaming 1080p and 5.1 surround sound? Most content streamed is compressed and looks worse than true 1080p. Also a lot of that content doesn't support surround sound.

    edit: For that matter, even when I use my PC which is plugged directly into the router, I get buffering issues if I watch 1080p content on youtube..
    You're getting 1080p with Netflix? My TV is on 1080p but I certainly believe Netflix can't provide true 1080p. I'm not using 5.1...maybe it makes a difference, I have no clue.

    But then, do you think the average joe is also going to be streaming 5.1 sound? Maybe they can find a way to compress/decompress 1080p graphics on the fly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Typical guy View Post
    Sufi, set this to 1080p and run it. My stream catches up with it and I'm plugged into my router with my PC.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01mzsec1wF8
    I'm getting perfect streaming, but my netbook doesn't have 5.1. and the 1080p was chugging but not the streaming. 8mbits is pretty average nowadays.

    @Mynd, I do agree there, we might start seeing some changes by both Sony and MS this generation. Their approaches might be different but let's not forget that Sony jumped on the online pass pretty quick...I didn't buy a single game that required it...go me!
    Last edited by Omar; 04-07-2013 at 00:52.

  6. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    What like ipads, and android games eh?

    Market has moved on, MS understand this, so does Sony...just you watch....
    Sony want indie devs..why?
    They aren't going to ever package you game up on disc and sell it. EVER.
    If iPad/Android tablets could only hold 3-4 apps I think casual users would be pissed off and wouldn't buy it.

  7. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Well, what about SD cards? And having a tiny HDD worked wonders for MS.

    You're getting 1080p with Netflix? My TV is on 1080p but I certainly believe Netflix can't provide true 1080p. I'm not using 5.1...maybe it makes a difference, I have no clue.

    But then, do you think the average joe is also going to be streaming 5.1 sound? Maybe they can find a way to compress/decompress 1080p graphics on the fly?
    No, when I said 1080p and 5.1 I specified VUDU. The average Joe will be using VUDU in the US because it's owned by Walmart. You can take your discs to Walmart and for a couple of bucks they'll give you a digital copy of it that you can stream on your VUDU apps (on consoles or other devices). For the PS3 I can actually download the content so that's how I consume it there. Sure it takes forever to download but there's no buffering issues. But we're talking about situations where everything will be streamed. It just isn't going to work and a lot of people won't want tons of compression artifacts in their games.

    http://www.vudu.com/disc_to_digital.html
    I've never done the "disk to digital" thing but I use them when I get digital copies with my BR movies.
    Last edited by Typical guy; 04-07-2013 at 00:57.

  8. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typical guy View Post
    If iPad/Android tablets could only hold 3-4 apps I think casual users would be pissed off and wouldn't buy it.
    PMSL, yes, every game will be 50gb in size.

    <sighs>

  9. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typical guy View Post
    If iPad/Android tablets could only hold 3-4 apps I think casual users would be pissed off and wouldn't buy it.
    Well, the market and expectations are different. I'd think the $1 games are not expected to last long nor take up a lot of space. I don't think the same users will be buying these consoles.

    But didn't it work with the Arcade version of 360?
    Quote Originally Posted by Typical guy View Post
    No, when I said 1080p and 5.1 I specified VUDU. The average Joe will be using VUDU in the US because it's owned by Walmart. You can take your disks to Walmart and for a couple of bucks they'll give you a digital copy of it that you can stream on your VUDU apps (on consoles or other devices). For the PS3 I can actually download the content so that's how I consume it there. Sure it takes forever to download but there's no buffering issues. But we're talking about situations where everything will be streamed. It just isn't going to work and a lot of people won't want tons of compression artifacts in their games.
    Yea i knew you had said another thing but didn't want to go back and look lol.

    Ok, point taken that it may not work right now but that doesn't mean that these companies can't figure a way around it right?

    But in the end, I think it's too early at this point, doesn't mean it can't change during the generation. We saw a lot of push towards DD games by the end of this generation too.

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    BTW I'm watching Dr Who on BBC America right now and they're only pushing out stereo. Some very limited content supports surround on cable but almost nothing does. I played Ni No Kuni and its encoded with 5.1. It sounded awesome. You'd be surprised how good it sounds. The music is great and its pretty cool to rotate the camera and hear the water wheel in the first town move from speaker to speaker.

  11. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    What like ipads, and android games eh?

    Market has moved on, MS understand this, so does Sony...just you watch....
    Sony want indie devs..why?
    They aren't going to ever package you game up on disc and sell it. EVER.
    I expect there will be some indie bundles wrapped up in a blu-ray next gen. But that's a different conversation really

  12. #161
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    Microsoft is starting to polish up those pineapples

    She put the lime in the coconut, she drank them both up.

    http://youtu.be/5LxC3M-Yngs

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  14. #162
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    I got to hear this str8 from ms to believe this

    ~~~OLD SKOOL~~~

  15. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefein View Post
    Fair enough. You got to me before I deleted that. Figured likning to another forum was poor form on my behalf. Yeah, the guy freaking out on his Xbox may have been isolated, but a LOT of people are talking about how they are about one if:then statement from ditching Xbox.

    It's not just one stupid video. The dialogue about gaming is changing. The timing is just bad for all of this with Sim City having such a borked launch not too long ago. It's a sore spot and consoles should be simplified forms of gaming. This always connected stuff seems to bridge the gap between a friendly device you hook up to your TV and play and some kind of fun-leeching vampire device.
    Exactly. All the press surrounding the Sim City fiasco and the backlash is definitely something not to mess around with. This is a very sore subject right now. Many people may interpret this as an example of what could happen with the system if it features this. As it has been stated this would be shooting themselves in the foot. If they went through with it, this would be a big example of just how arrogant they have become over this generation. I honestly don't think it will happen.




    Currently Playing: ​ Watch Dogs
    Currently Waiting For: ​​ ​Destiny

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    Well you guys COULD BE RIGHT.

    But.... let me remind you of the prediction success rate of the Sony fan over the last 7+ years now. It has been AWFUL!!! Straight EMBARRASSING! You guys make Michael Pachter look like Nostradamus!!! Cuz as bad as his track record has been, at least HE can lay claim to a better prediction rate then you guys!

    How many times was such and such a move by Microsoft gonna have people leaping from the Xbox platform and it's sales grinding to a near halt? The 360 kept chugging along like nobody's business and the software attach rates remained high.

    Many predictions were made not necessarily because the people thought they would actually happen, but mainly because they were HOPING THEY WOULD HAPPEN. It is a PlayStation centric site after all. It's like throwing a ton of stuff at a wall and hoping something sticks to it. And so far over the years, there's not much on that wall and there is a big pile on the floor at it's base.

    I remember the predictions about Netflix. They used to have ONE price that included BOTH streaming and disc delivery. They decided to split the two and price them separately. If you wanted both, you would have to pay twice the price as before. People on the net claimed this was SUICIDE and that mass droves of people would end their relationship with Netflix. Some people DID leave. But within a few months, Netflix had gotten enough new subscribers to nullify the lost subscribers and then some! Ever since, Netflix has been chugging along just fine and is still adding subscribers.

    Remember.... far more people join a forum to complain about a product then praise it. Usually they have issues and seek either solutions from other users of the product..... OR....... to tell the whole world to avoid it. That's why I tell friends to take what people say on a forum with a big grain of salt. Cuz people that are happy with their product usually don't join forums to brag about it, but many join if they aren't happy because they want to vent.

    As for internet service being spotty or bad? I've only had 2 outages on cable and about the same on DSL in all my years on the net. I've also gone on many sites like DSLReports.com for years where all they talk about are ISP providers, their service/speeds and new transmission technologies. What I don't hear about is boatloads of complaints about outages. And when there are outages they are often resolved very quickly. People are REALLY $#@!ing over-blowing the issue to win the argument against Microsoft here. Just like they've overblown issues pertaining to the Xbox platform in the past.

    Not saying you need to be happy with this if Microsoft implements it. But considering more and more people are getting connected to the net, it will be the norm at some point. FAR MORE people stream their movies then rent or buy them now. At least that's the anecdotal evidence I've seen from friends, co-workers and family.

    Pertaining to the streaming issues mentioned. That's usually an issue of throttling on your ISPs end or on the service you are trying to address..... with a little net congestion in the mix as well. Over the last 2 years the complaints about YouTube buffering issues has increased dramatically on the forums. People with 50Mb connections were having buffering issues almost as bad as guys at only 10Mb. It was also observed at certain times of the day. Part of it is net congestion, but I'm fairly certain YouTube is doing some throttling too and I'm not alone in that opinion.

    There is ways to detect if your ISP is throttling like Glasnost...

    http://broadband.mpi-sws.org/transparency/bttest.php

    If it's not your ISP then it's usually a problem on the server end of the service you are streaming from.... with internet backbone channels being the problem a minority of the time.

  17. #165
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    You know, it's like Nintendo, everyone said it was a fad but it was chugging along. I always said that they weren't setting up the foundation and actually were ruining it. While it proved all of us wrong, it wasn't that far off from the truth (Wii U). Just because you're seeing sales doesn't mean that it will stay that way. You need a solid foundation to keep bringing people back.

    Now that was about Nintendo...with MS, I'm sure they will do a much better job at setting up a foundation (even if that doesn't necessarily mean in-house development) but they will likely want to do the next best thing with online services...which is cool. But if you think that the solid 360 sales have nothing to do with Kinect or the price point then you don't understand how business concepts work.

    MS has been burning out all of their resources to stay above Sony and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it but they're definitely shifting focus. Closing out studios means profits, betting on less more tried-and-true games means more profits...what it doesn't mean is brand image. Going into the next-generation, people will remember how MS did the past generation and even if they buy the next Xbox, they will keep their eyes open for those red flags.

    Just like I'll be keeping my eyes open with Sony and the franchises that I like or the direction they take as they screwed up majorly last time and while I stuck with them, my image of Sony went down. Now they've been making the right choices so I have more confidence going with them next generation but I will not forget the disasters they made and will keep a watchful eye on them.

    Back to the point, MS have been drastically reducing the price of 360 this entire generation and the new $99 (while not really $99 as you are paying for Live, it's still an insane price) is a pretty competitive point against the PS3. Now considering this the PS3 has been outselling the 360 up until last year I believe and now we don't know where they are.

    Sony did mess up with the Blu-ray, otherwise they also could've easily lowered its price to keep outselling faster and could've just sold off most of their studios (which they've always had way more than MS) and shown short-term profits. I probably would've left them though.

    Instead they've decided to do a marathon rather than a sprint. I'm much more confident with Sony taking advantage of the PS4 than MS doing the same with the Xbox...primarily because they have so much work to do before they can get a good cycle of development going again. God knows what they will show for their reveal...I'd be surprised if even a few are in-house, I'm betting it's mostly going to be multiplats and likely some 2nd party or timed. This has nothing to do with the tools they'll be providing.

    So if someone is showing profits or fairly chugging along (not outselling the competition necessarily), sit back and look at things objectively and realize which strategy is long-term and which is short-term. If you think the sales are due to Halo 4 and Horizon alone then there needs to be a perspective check.

    So while I commend MS for staying competitive this long, it doesn't mean that it's the best strategy...to be fair though it is a good way to stay competitive without much activity with in-house development going on. All I will say is that they will need to get their game on next generation and if they aren't going to be starting more development then for sure they have something else in mind because there's no way possible to sell a video game console without enticing gamers with video games. If you can get the same multiplats on another console then why not get the one that will also have additional games?

    So either MS is coming with a new direction where they will focus on hardcore and the core or they have completely gone a different route that is mostly associated with showing profits and making money in other ways, meaning it won't be just a console for gaming. So far I haven't heard them doing much with new studios but if they are then wow...what a way to keep it under the wraps. *clap* *clap* *clap*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coconut_Crunch View Post
    Microsoft is starting to polish up those pineapples

    Their fans love it. even defending it when there's nothing to gain from being a gamer.

    I just have a problem with having to be connected to play a single player game.
    Last edited by Two4DaMoney; 04-07-2013 at 08:56.


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    To Sufi...

    See... you start with the sugar and then add the salt. You complimented MS and then go on to tell me how what they are doing is wrong despite their success.

    In the first 3-4 years of the Xbox 360's life, the most uttered statement pertaining to the PS3 was "Just wait until...".

    You know things like "Just wait until.... the PS3 comes out.......until the PS3 gets this mega-hit beloved exclusive title released on it....until it's price drops.... until PSN is as good as Xbox Live....... until people realize PSN is free online gaming..... until Move comes out....until people go through their 3rd RROD Xbox 360 console.... until this brand new IP comes out... etc etc". Then in the last couple years, most of that talk has ended as the reality set in that these predictions were almost always wrong and the 360 still kept chugging along.

    Now contrast that with the Xbox 360. Unlike the PS3, it's gotten a statement uttered for the ENTIRE generation. Not just the first 3-4 years. That most uttered statement was "If it wasn't for...".

    You know things like "If it wasn't for.... Microsoft's big bank account..... for releasing a year earlier.... for the 360's lower launch price..... for Halo... for Gears of War... for it's online service.....for it's price drops..... it's timed 3rd party exclusives and DLC......for Kinect.....etc etc etc". No mater what Microsoft does right, it is always framed into how what they are doing is wrong. With Microsoft ......right is apparently wrong......ALWAYS.

    That's why I say Sony=Brilliant....Microsoft=Desperate. Because when Sony does things right like lowing the price of the PS3, it was PRAISED as a brilliant move to increase sales. But when Microsoft lowered the price of the 360, it was DERIDED as a desperate move.....that Microsoft was scared and that's why they lowered it's price. Both lowered the price of their console, only ONE get's complimented for it. At the END OF THE DAY.... Microsoft handled their business and the Xbox name is a household name. Especially in the market that spends more money on games then anybody...the USA. Nothing speaks volumes better like success.

    And now that the Xbox 720 is almost upon us...... the haters are throwing out the same doom and gloom predictions as they did with the Xbox 360. And all of this BEFORE they've debuted the console.

    As for Sony screwed up with the PS3? You can look at my past posts on that subject. People WAY overstate Sony's part in it's position. Sony did a TON of things right. Price and the one year later launch don't even come close to erasing the 5:1 ratio over Xbox last gen. Their mistakes MIGHT have brought it to 4:1 or 3:1 over the 360.... but a 1:1 ratio now in the last year of this generation requires far more explaining then that. That's a lot of mind share lost.

    Now you guys could be right. But if you are right, I'd say......it's about $#@!ing time! Cuz a coin flip results in better predictions then the ones that have been thrown out there over the course of this gen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    To Sufi...

    See... you start with the sugar and then add the salt. You complimented MS and then go on to tell me how what they are doing is wrong despite their success.

    In the first 3-4 years of the Xbox 360's life, the most uttered statement pertaining to the PS3 was "Just wait until...".

    You know things like "Just wait until.... the PS3 comes out.......until the PS3 gets this mega-hit beloved exclusive title released on it....until it's price drops.... until PSN is as good as Xbox Live....... until people realize PSN is free online gaming..... until Move comes out....until people go through their 3rd RROD Xbox 360 console.... until this brand new IP comes out... etc etc". Then in the last couple years, most of that talk has ended as the reality set in that these predictions were almost always wrong and the 360 still kept chugging along.

    Now contrast that with the Xbox 360. Unlike the PS3, it's gotten a statement uttered for the ENTIRE generation. Not just the first 3-4 years. That most uttered statement was "If it wasn't for...".

    You know things like "If it wasn't for.... Microsoft's big bank account..... for releasing a year earlier.... for the 360's lower launch price..... for Halo... for Gears of War... for it's online service.....for it's price drops..... it's timed 3rd party exclusives and DLC......for Kinect.....etc etc etc". No mater what Microsoft does right, it is always framed into how what they are doing is wrong. With Microsoft ......right is apparently wrong......ALWAYS.

    That's why I say Sony=Brilliant....Microsoft=Desperate. Because when Sony does things right like lowing the price of the PS3, it was PRAISED as a brilliant move to increase sales. But when Microsoft lowered the price of the 360, it was DERIDED as a desperate move.....that Microsoft was scared and that's why they lowered it's price. Both lowered the price of their console, only ONE get's complimented for it. At the END OF THE DAY.... Microsoft handled their business and the Xbox name is a household name. Especially in the market that spends more money on games then anybody...the USA. Nothing speaks volumes better like success.

    And now that the Xbox 720 is almost upon us...... the haters are throwing out the same doom and gloom predictions as they did with the Xbox 360. And all of this BEFORE they've debuted the console.

    As for Sony screwed up with the PS3? You can look at my past posts on that subject. People WAY overstate Sony's part in it's position. Sony did a TON of things right. Price and the one year later launch don't even come close to erasing the 5:1 ratio over Xbox last gen. Their mistakes MIGHT have brought it to 4:1 or 3:1 over the 360.... but a 1:1 ratio now in the last year of this generation requires far more explaining then that. That's a lot of mind share lost.

    Now you guys could be right. But if you are right, I'd say......it's about $#@!ing time! Cuz a coin flip results in better predictions then the ones that have been thrown out there over the course of this gen.
    Price is the single factor PS3 has not been doing a lot better, especially in the US. I'd say the secondary reason is the lack of features that Live has and third, the initial horrible support by Sony.

    Back to pricing, US is much more sensitive to prices and we've seen that over time and time that people will go for the cheaper product despite the quality. Whereas the rest of the world doesn't have the buying power US consumers do so they look at the long-term benefits.

    I have no idea where you've taken this conversation but you're conducting a straw man argument. You're taking a bunch of different opinions and lumping them together to form your argument. Why don't you reply to what I said?

    As for people saying, wait until this or that...those are the people that thought the PS3 would keep the lead like it did with the PS2 over Xbox. Otherwise, the PS3 has been outselling the 360 since the beginning.

    Now you can ignore what I said but those Nintendo fans on the board also ignored what I said back when the Wii had come out. That doesn't mean it will change the way rationality works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    What does it mean when they say that it may be required at the OS level?
    downloading/updating stuff in the background?

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    To Sufi...

    See... you start with the sugar and then add the salt. You complimented MS and then go on to tell me how what they are doing is wrong despite their success.

    In the first 3-4 years of the Xbox 360's life, the most uttered statement pertaining to the PS3 was "Just wait until...".

    You know things like "Just wait until.... the PS3 comes out.......until the PS3 gets this mega-hit beloved exclusive title released on it....until it's price drops.... until PSN is as good as Xbox Live....... until people realize PSN is free online gaming..... until Move comes out....until people go through their 3rd RROD Xbox 360 console.... until this brand new IP comes out... etc etc". Then in the last couple years, most of that talk has ended as the reality set in that these predictions were almost always wrong and the 360 still kept chugging along.

    Now contrast that with the Xbox 360. Unlike the PS3, it's gotten a statement uttered for the ENTIRE generation. Not just the first 3-4 years. That most uttered statement was "If it wasn't for...".

    You know things like "If it wasn't for.... Microsoft's big bank account..... for releasing a year earlier.... for the 360's lower launch price..... for Halo... for Gears of War... for it's online service.....for it's price drops..... it's timed 3rd party exclusives and DLC......for Kinect.....etc etc etc". No mater what Microsoft does right, it is always framed into how what they are doing is wrong. With Microsoft ......right is apparently wrong......ALWAYS.

    That's why I say Sony=Brilliant....Microsoft=Desperate. Because when Sony does things right like lowing the price of the PS3, it was PRAISED as a brilliant move to increase sales. But when Microsoft lowered the price of the 360, it was DERIDED as a desperate move.....that Microsoft was scared and that's why they lowered it's price. Both lowered the price of their console, only ONE get's complimented for it. At the END OF THE DAY.... Microsoft handled their business and the Xbox name is a household name. Especially in the market that spends more money on games then anybody...the USA. Nothing speaks volumes better like success.

    And now that the Xbox 720 is almost upon us...... the haters are throwing out the same doom and gloom predictions as they did with the Xbox 360. And all of this BEFORE they've debuted the console.

    As for Sony screwed up with the PS3? You can look at my past posts on that subject. People WAY overstate Sony's part in it's position. Sony did a TON of things right. Price and the one year later launch don't even come close to erasing the 5:1 ratio over Xbox last gen. Their mistakes MIGHT have brought it to 4:1 or 3:1 over the 360.... but a 1:1 ratio now in the last year of this generation requires far more explaining then that. That's a lot of mind share lost.

    Now you guys could be right. But if you are right, I'd say......it's about $#@!ing time! Cuz a coin flip results in better predictions then the ones that have been thrown out there over the course of this gen.
    hammer and nail on head there...

    +rep.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    Well you guys COULD BE RIGHT.

    But.... let me remind you of the prediction success rate of the Sony fan over the last 7+ years now. It has been AWFUL!!! Straight EMBARRASSING! You guys make Michael Pachter look like Nostradamus!!! Cuz as bad as his track record has been, at least HE can lay claim to a better prediction rate then you guys!

    How many times was such and such a move by Microsoft gonna have people leaping from the Xbox platform and it's sales grinding to a near halt? The 360 kept chugging along like nobody's business and the software attach rates remained high.

    Many predictions were made not necessarily because the people thought they would actually happen, but mainly because they were HOPING THEY WOULD HAPPEN. It is a PlayStation centric site after all. It's like throwing a ton of stuff at a wall and hoping something sticks to it. And so far over the years, there's not much on that wall and there is a big pile on the floor at it's base.

    I remember the predictions about Netflix. They used to have ONE price that included BOTH streaming and disc delivery. They decided to split the two and price them separately. If you wanted both, you would have to pay twice the price as before. People on the net claimed this was SUICIDE and that mass droves of people would end their relationship with Netflix. Some people DID leave. But within a few months, Netflix had gotten enough new subscribers to nullify the lost subscribers and then some! Ever since, Netflix has been chugging along just fine and is still adding subscribers.

    Remember.... far more people join a forum to complain about a product then praise it. Usually they have issues and seek either solutions from other users of the product..... OR....... to tell the whole world to avoid it. That's why I tell friends to take what people say on a forum with a big grain of salt. Cuz people that are happy with their product usually don't join forums to brag about it, but many join if they aren't happy because they want to vent.

    As for internet service being spotty or bad? I've only had 2 outages on cable and about the same on DSL in all my years on the net. I've also gone on many sites like DSLReports.com for years where all they talk about are ISP providers, their service/speeds and new transmission technologies. What I don't hear about is boatloads of complaints about outages. And when there are outages they are often resolved very quickly. People are REALLY $#@!ing over-blowing the issue to win the argument against Microsoft here. Just like they've overblown issues pertaining to the Xbox platform in the past.

    Not saying you need to be happy with this if Microsoft implements it. But considering more and more people are getting connected to the net, it will be the norm at some point. FAR MORE people stream their movies then rent or buy them now. At least that's the anecdotal evidence I've seen from friends, co-workers and family.

    Pertaining to the streaming issues mentioned. That's usually an issue of throttling on your ISPs end or on the service you are trying to address..... with a little net congestion in the mix as well. Over the last 2 years the complaints about YouTube buffering issues has increased dramatically on the forums. People with 50Mb connections were having buffering issues almost as bad as guys at only 10Mb. It was also observed at certain times of the day. Part of it is net congestion, but I'm fairly certain YouTube is doing some throttling too and I'm not alone in that opinion.

    There is ways to detect if your ISP is throttling like Glasnost...

    http://broadband.mpi-sws.org/transparency/bttest.php

    If it's not your ISP then it's usually a problem on the server end of the service you are streaming from.... with internet backbone channels being the problem a minority of the time.
    has to be post of the year.
    Last edited by Ixion; 04-07-2013 at 18:55.

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    You should learn to multi-quote.
    "The biggest adversary in our life is ourselves. We are what we are, in a sense, because of the dominating thoughts we allow to gather in our head. All concepts of self-improvement, all actions and paths we take, relate solely to our abstract image of ourselves. Life is limited only by how we really see ourselves and feel about our being. A great deal of pure self-knowledge and inner understanding allows us to lay an all-important foundation for the structure of our life from which we can perceive and take the right avenues.

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  28. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    To Sufi...

    See... you start with the sugar and then add the salt. You complimented MS and then go on to tell me how what they are doing is wrong despite their success.

    In the first 3-4 years of the Xbox 360's life, the most uttered statement pertaining to the PS3 was "Just wait until...".

    You know things like "Just wait until.... the PS3 comes out.......until the PS3 gets this mega-hit beloved exclusive title released on it....until it's price drops.... until PSN is as good as Xbox Live....... until people realize PSN is free online gaming..... until Move comes out....until people go through their 3rd RROD Xbox 360 console.... until this brand new IP comes out... etc etc". Then in the last couple years, most of that talk has ended as the reality set in that these predictions were almost always wrong and the 360 still kept chugging along.

    Now contrast that with the Xbox 360. Unlike the PS3, it's gotten a statement uttered for the ENTIRE generation. Not just the first 3-4 years. That most uttered statement was "If it wasn't for...".

    You know things like "If it wasn't for.... Microsoft's big bank account..... for releasing a year earlier.... for the 360's lower launch price..... for Halo... for Gears of War... for it's online service.....for it's price drops..... it's timed 3rd party exclusives and DLC......for Kinect.....etc etc etc". No mater what Microsoft does right, it is always framed into how what they are doing is wrong. With Microsoft ......right is apparently wrong......ALWAYS.

    That's why I say Sony=Brilliant....Microsoft=Desperate. Because when Sony does things right like lowing the price of the PS3, it was PRAISED as a brilliant move to increase sales. But when Microsoft lowered the price of the 360, it was DERIDED as a desperate move.....that Microsoft was scared and that's why they lowered it's price. Both lowered the price of their console, only ONE get's complimented for it. At the END OF THE DAY.... Microsoft handled their business and the Xbox name is a household name. Especially in the market that spends more money on games then anybody...the USA. Nothing speaks volumes better like success.

    And now that the Xbox 720 is almost upon us...... the haters are throwing out the same doom and gloom predictions as they did with the Xbox 360. And all of this BEFORE they've debuted the console.

    As for Sony screwed up with the PS3? You can look at my past posts on that subject. People WAY overstate Sony's part in it's position. Sony did a TON of things right. Price and the one year later launch don't even come close to erasing the 5:1 ratio over Xbox last gen. Their mistakes MIGHT have brought it to 4:1 or 3:1 over the 360.... but a 1:1 ratio now in the last year of this generation requires far more explaining then that. That's a lot of mind share lost.

    Now you guys could be right. But if you are right, I'd say......it's about $#@!ing time! Cuz a coin flip results in better predictions then the ones that have been thrown out there over the course of this gen.
    You take this console war thing way too analytically man. You should also add TLDRs at the bottom of your posts, but I did read this one<3

    I think there's millions of you out there, which is why I believe MS will be perfectly fine if they introduce an always online console

    For the rest of us though, I sure hope not!

    Quote Originally Posted by Two4DaMoney View Post
    Their fans love it. even defending it when there's nothing to gain from being a gamer.

    I just have a problem with having to be connected to play a single player game.
    Yeah yeah, pretty much this.

    It'll become an industry wide 'feature' if one of MS or Sony does it though IMO - despite what Sony may have us believe at this point. If that's the case, WiiU here I come - or probably just PC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Price is the single factor PS3 has not been doing a lot better, especially in the US. I'd say the secondary reason is the lack of features that Live has and third, the initial horrible support by Sony.

    Back to pricing, US is much more sensitive to prices and we've seen that over time and time that people will go for the cheaper product despite the quality. Whereas the rest of the world doesn't have the buying power US consumers do so they look at the long-term benefits.

    I have no idea where you've taken this conversation but you're conducting a straw man argument. You're taking a bunch of different opinions and lumping them together to form your argument. Why don't you reply to what I said?

    As for people saying, wait until this or that...those are the people that thought the PS3 would keep the lead like it did with the PS2 over Xbox. Otherwise, the PS3 has been outselling the 360 since the beginning.

    Now you can ignore what I said but those Nintendo fans on the board also ignored what I said back when the Wii had come out. That doesn't mean it will change the way rationality works.
    The PS3 has been at a decent price for awhile now. Would have expected a hell of a lot more of that 150 million PS2 owners here by now. If consumers are so price conscious, why aren't they all over the Wii-U? People went with the cheaper Wii last gen. Plus the PS3 has a blu-ray player. People can justify they are getting a gaming console that also plays Blu-Ray movies. Plus PS3 has more exclusives.

    And about the price...... People have no problem dropping money on the next smartphone or the latest tablet every year to every other year. Everywhere I turn....a friend, family member or co-worker has a new phone or tablet. Hell.... I see tons of strangers in malls and out in public with the latest phones all the time. With the likes of Apple and Samsung raking in the cash, that's LOTS of people dropping LOTS of MONEY every 1-2 years. Sometimes every 6 months! And you are telling me people are so price conscious? Maybe on food, but not on gadgets they really want. They can drop that kind of money on those devices that they only own for 6 months-2 years, yet they somehow are gonna get financially weak kneed and price conscious about a game console/Blu-Ray player with a game for as cheap as it's been? And it has the most exclusives? That will have legs beyond 2 years? Not buying your argument.

    As for your question answered?

    If you can get the same multiplats on another console then why not get the one that will also have additional games?
    You could have a console, service, controller, exclusives preference towards Xbox platform or not. Just cuz you have more IPs doesn't mean it's gonna be enough to draw people. The PS3 proved that. Other than the Wii's motion controller and some of 1st party exclusives, why did people buy it in droves? It was much lower system power then either the PS3 or 360.

    So the answer is.... they will go with the console they want, not what we think on paper should have them buying.

    As for.....

    MS has been burning out all of their resources to stay above Sony
    What are they burning out of that's hurting them when they have all this money coming in?

    That's like telling me I'm on the verge of going out of business for the last 7 years while there is a man in front of me who just keeps putting money in my hands like he has for the last 7 years. What am I missing here?

    Plus you say talk about their price drops? That's what your supposed to do over the course of a console generation. Get it to a cheaper price to get it in more hands? Who would have thought? Acting like a company that wants to keep bringing the money in. Yeah...Sony does that too. Ya know... cuz they are a business too. Or is this the part where you talk about how cuddly they are with the core gamer PR? You make lowering a price a bad thing. As long as the console isn't at a loss, who cares? Sounds like a good thing to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yungstar 2006 View Post
    has to be post of the year.
    Dude.... thanks for the complement.....but.... my screen name and that award together will NEVER happen!

    Quote Originally Posted by PeanutButterMunky View Post
    You should learn to multi-quote.
    How about learn to control your attention deficit disorder with your avatar and sig?

  30. #174
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    To EVERYONE...

    This topic is about the constant internet connection required for the next Xbox. This is NOT about the the PS3 pricing, or the PSN, or anything else Playstation. Keep the discussion on the actual topic please.

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    Crap I didn't see the post above me lol. I'll PM you the reply.
    Last edited by Omar; 04-07-2013 at 19:18.

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