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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sith View Post
    Well Ms didnt make trillions of dollars by doing stupid stuff they are very very smart people.
    A little nugget here ...word from the underground gaming world. MS will shock the world with there BF4 demo looks idenical to the version shown at GDC <wink wink >'.
    microsofts gaming division barely makes even...i think it was a Reuters report or in times magazine (i forget)

    considering the Battlefield demo was run on a 7990 (a dual GPU card) i find that statement totally baseless.
    im not saying its going to look bad, but comparing the consoles to $1000 cards is a bit out there.

    no doubt it will stack up well, but as seen with the PS4's Unreal demo, there will be concessions made.

    all in all, i will wait for the console to actually be announced, many thought the PS4 would use 4GB RAM be a 32bit system and only run 4 bulldozer cores in the apu.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Man Gamer View Post
    The 360 is a great console with great games and a great on-line service. I have no idea why you wouldn't like it. I've been enjoying mine immensely since launch and I expect to be enjoying it for several years to come since there is a catalog of great games that I have yet to play.
    I agree. In fact to tbh I've gotten more enjoyment from my 360 since launch than I have my PS3. (Not saying I dont enjoy my PS3). Its all just a matter of taste and preference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post
    microsofts gaming division barely makes even...i think it was a Reuters report or in times magazine (i forget)
    Incorrect.

    2008 - $445m
    2009 - $108m
    2010 - $649m
    2011 - $1257m
    2012 - $364m

    Total for the past 5 years =$2.823 billion dollars profit.

    Not sure how anyone can say they barley make even.

    That's about $7.8 billion more than Sony has made in the past 5 years.

    Thats right Sony lost 5 billion dollars in the PS3 departments in the past 5 years.

    The Ps3 has cost Sony around 4 billion in loss's before they started hiding its numbers.



    considering the Battlefield demo was run on a 7990 (a dual GPU card) i find that statement totally baseless.
    im not saying its going to look bad, but comparing the consoles to $1000 cards is a bit out there.

    no doubt it will stack up well, but as seen with the PS4's Unreal demo, there will be concessions made.

    all in all, i will wait for the console to actually be announced, many thought the PS4 would use 4GB RAM be a 32bit system and only run 4 bulldozer cores in the apu.
    Last edited by mynd; 04-08-2013 at 06:40.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Incorrect.

    2008 - $445m
    2009 - $108m
    2010 - $649m
    2011 - $1257m
    2012 - $364m

    Total for the past 5 years =$2.823 billion dollars profit.

    Not sure how anyone can say they barley make even.

    That's about $3.2 billion more than Sony has made in the past 5 years.

    Thats right Sony lost 1/2 billion dollars on the PS3 department in the past 5 years.
    can i get a link? naturally, i didn't pay much attention, i read the reports for things not gaming related so paid little attention, other than the fact it was from one of their senior execs.

    but i know sony's woes, its clear for anybody to see really
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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post
    can i get a link? naturally, i didn't pay much attention, i read the reports for things not gaming related so paid little attention, other than the fact it was from one of their senior execs.

    but i know sony's woes, its clear for anybody to see really

    Well Ive just updated, its far worse than I suggested.

    Sony links...

    http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/fina.../07q4_sony.pdf
    http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/fina.../08q4_sony.pdf
    http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/fina.../09q4_sony.pdf
    http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/fina.../10q4_sony.pdf
    http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/fina.../11q4_sony.pdf

    MS links...

    http://www.microsoft.com/investor/re...0k_fr_dis.html
    http://www.microsoft.com/investor/re...0k_fr_dis.html
    http://www.microsoft.com/investor/re...0k_fr_dis.html
    http://www.microsoft.com/investor/re..._analysis.html


    MS has barley made any money on the 360 "in general", they have made a loss of 3.2 billion (including that billion dollar RROD) in the first 2 years of operations. So its likely this year they will "break even" in terms of the 360 investment.

    Conversely, Sony has now made no money ever on the PS3, since launch its cost is somewhere between 4-7 billion dollars loss, Sony hid the figures when it got really bad. They will never make that money back.

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  7. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Well Ive just updated, its far worse than I suggested.

    Sony links...

    http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/fina.../07q4_sony.pdf
    http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/fina.../08q4_sony.pdf
    http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/fina.../09q4_sony.pdf
    http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/fina.../10q4_sony.pdf
    http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/fina.../11q4_sony.pdf

    MS links...

    http://www.microsoft.com/investor/re...0k_fr_dis.html
    http://www.microsoft.com/investor/re...0k_fr_dis.html
    http://www.microsoft.com/investor/re...0k_fr_dis.html
    http://www.microsoft.com/investor/re..._analysis.html


    MS has barley made any money on the 360 "in general", they have made a loss of 3.2 billion (including that billion dollar RROD) in the first 2 years of operations. So its likely this year they will "break even" in terms of the 360 investment.

    Conversely, Sony has now made no money ever on the PS3, since launch its cost is somewhere between 4-7 billion dollars loss, Sony hid the figures when it got really bad. They will never make that money back.
    thanks for those mynd

    but yeah, it puts things in perspective now (from what the exec was saying) comparative to their other products it's considered minimal with the inclusion of the systems reliability. still in the green but not as much as other sectors within the company. but as i say, i wasn't reading the reports for Microsoft data.

    i've got other reports to read but i'll peruse those at some point to square my facts for next time
    Last edited by Fijiandoce; 04-08-2013 at 07:04.
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    Sony made big mistakes with ps3. They've said as much and pretty much admitted that's why they're going highly customized PC parts for ps4.

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    I'm not underestimating them. I just won't give a $#@! about the 720 if the always connected rumor is true for single player games.


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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    But as long as the online is considered better than the PS3's, people will still pay for online and won't mind it.
    You mean PS4?

    As far as services that gamers want...which is what? A faster more streamlined OS, in-game goodies...what else is there left? While MS might give more interesting services, Sony has pretty much covered the services that gamers want for free.

    Share stuff is just extra that I don't care to pay for. MS needs to find a better reason to make people pay because while some of the people here might pay for that, I don't know how that will go with the general public.

    Quote Originally Posted by Typical guy View Post
    Sony made big mistakes with ps3. They've said as much and pretty much admitted that's why they're going highly customized PC parts for ps4.
    True however I feel like they didn't just pick x86 for that reason. There's something bigger at work here, hence why MS also went with it.

    I have two guesses, 1) They are trying to get PC market as well (and it's easier) 2) One of them went for x86 for the first reason and the other one followed suit.
    Last edited by Omar; 04-09-2013 at 04:09.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    You mean PS4?

    As far as services that gamers want...which is what? A faster more streamlined OS, in-game goodies...what else is there left? While MS might give more interesting services, Sony has pretty much covered the services that gamers want for free.

    Share stuff is just extra that I don't care to pay for. MS needs to find a better reason to make people pay because while some of the people here might pay for that, I don't know how that will go with the general public.



    True however I feel like they didn't just pick x86 for that reason. There's something bigger at work here, hence why MS also went with it.

    I have two guesses, 1) They are trying to get PC market as well (and it's easier) 2) One of them went for x86 for the first reason and the other one followed suit.
    Its to keep development costs down.
    Sony would have been pretty much told, if you make it hard to develop for again, we cant afford to follow you.
    Overall its designed to make ease of development and cost of development minimal.
    The idea these days is to get the ideas up and the cost of making games down.
    You can thank Apple for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Its to keep development costs down.
    Sony would have been pretty much told, if you make it hard to develop for again, we cant afford to follow you.
    Overall its designed to make ease of development and cost of development minimal.
    The idea these days is to get the ideas up and the cost of making games down.
    You can thank Apple for that.
    Yea I was going to say, you mentioned Apple and costs being down in one sentence but then I looked at it correctly lol.

    That's true but I think it's more than just cost...this gives cost, ease of use as you said (not to mention, 30+ years of development tools out there) but also ports much better. They need to blur the line between PCs and consoles...as there's more market there for hardcores still.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Yea I was going to say, you mentioned Apple and costs being down in one sentence but then I looked at it correctly lol.
    ha ha, I meant the relative innovation from cheap apps based games.
    YOu can also blame the indie PC scene as well.
    That's true but I think it's more than just cost...this gives cost, ease of use as you said (not to mention, 30+ years of development tools out there) but also ports much better. They need to blur the line between PCs and consoles...as there's more market there for hardcores still.
    PC's will always lead, they are a fluid product, riding on the tails of that is absolutely the right thing to do.

  14. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickice View Post
    Sorry mate but the general consensus is that the PS4 has already won.
    the past few days Nextbox rumors would suggest that's not quite so.

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    haha i think he was kidding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mickice View Post
    Sorry mate but the general consensus is that the PS4 has already won.

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  18. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post

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    I doubt Microsoft can stack up well against 8 core CPU and 8gb GDDR5 RAM. If Microsoft don't invest to heavily in games compared to Sony but we will see this year on release how it pans out.

    TBH I don't feel like playing Gears of War 10 or Halo 2025 I want to see fresh IP's from Microsoft.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacP View Post
    I doubt Microsoft can stack up well against 8 core CPU and 8gb GDDR5 RAM. If Microsoft don't invest to heavily in games compared to Sony but we will see this year on release how it pans out.

    TBH I don't feel like playing Gears of War 10 or Halo 2025 I want to see fresh IP's from Microsoft.
    They can and most likely will. AS for IPs we will have to wait and see. I think we will get a few surprises. I'm more excited about xbox this time than last.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MacP View Post
    I doubt Microsoft can stack up well against 8 core CPU and 8gb GDDR5 RAM. If Microsoft don't invest to heavily in games compared to Sony but we will see this year on release how it pans out. TBH I don't feel like playing Gears of War 10 or Halo 2025 I want to see fresh IP's from Microsoft.
    I'm sure MS will have a powerful system but I'm in doubt about the fresh IP department.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MacP View Post
    I doubt Microsoft can stack up well against 8 core CPU and 8gb GDDR5 RAM. If Microsoft don't invest to heavily in games compared to Sony but we will see this year on release how it pans out.

    TBH I don't feel like playing Gears of War 10 or Halo 2025 I want to see fresh IP's from Microsoft.
    Even if MS doesn't meet Sony's specs, and even if it follows the same approach to exclusive content it won't make a difference. We are niche, a small demographical drop in a sea of casual/mainstream/general consumers...and this sea doesn't really give as much of a $#@! about whether MS is on par with Sony games wise. Whatever MS come up with will be marketed like $#@! and even if a portion of core gamers migrate over to PS4 as a result, MS will still do well because Sony isn't the main competitor anymore, Google and Apple are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost-Rhayne View Post
    Even if MS doesn't meet Sony's specs, and even if it follows the same approach to exclusive content it won't make a difference. We are niche, a small demographical drop in a sea of casual/mainstream/general consumers...and this sea doesn't really give as much of a $#@! about whether MS is on par with Sony games wise. Whatever MS come up with will be marketed like $#@! and even if a portion of core gamers migrate over to PS4 as a result, MS will still do well because Sony isn't the main competitor anymore, Google and Apple are.
    They never were MS main competitor. They were talking about the IT market.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost-Rhayne View Post
    Even if MS doesn't meet Sony's specs, and even if it follows the same approach to exclusive content it won't make a difference. We are niche, a small demographical drop in a sea of casual/mainstream/general consumers...and this sea doesn't really give as much of a $#@! about whether MS is on par with Sony games wise. Whatever MS come up with will be marketed like $#@! and even if a portion of core gamers migrate over to PS4 as a result, MS will still do well because Sony isn't the main competitor anymore, Google and Apple are.
    That's true that marketing does matter a lot however it's not the best idea in the long run. That's exactly what happened to Nintendo. I'm not saying MS is going the same route but I'm saying that they may not completely focus on the minority but that minority is important to gaming.

    Nintendo is selling their Wii-U to that minority (that still like Nintendo after they bent over backwards for them), not the mainstream that already have a Wii-U-like console from 6 years ago.

    IMO that minority is the reason this industry is still going strong. It's the 80/20 in this case.

    If MS is going after the untapped market, they will certainly get it and make billions if done right but what do you do afterwards? Are you going to come out with a wild card every generation? Well if you can then good luck to you but time after time we've realized that the hardcore gaming is where it's at. I feel like these companies are trying to get the mobile gamers onto the consoles and trying their best to get these people.

    There's definitely a huge market there but these people won't keep up the support, they don't have a passion for gaming. That's why we only ever hear about Angry Birds from phones and Farmville from facebook.

    There's no support for other titles. Mobile gaming doesn't have an anchor, it can't get on its feet, it's not a viable solution for every company if they want to actually make a career out of it.

    Don't forget the minority that brought gaming to where it is now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost-Rhayne View Post
    MS will still do well because Sony isn't the main competitor anymore, Google and Apple are.
    I think we under-estimate how many core gamers there are out there in this big wide world. I'd like to see statistics of how many hard core gamers there are out there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacP View Post
    I doubt Microsoft can stack up well against 8 core CPU and 8gb GDDR5 RAM.
    Wouldn't matter if they could or couldn't. They trailed in power (supposedly) with the Xbox 360, but they had the games. They just need the games again. It's all about the GAMEZ.

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    That's their strategy, say stupid things to lower expectations, then people will be happy even if it's crap...
    remember when MS said they had low expectations in Japan so they didn't fail because their expectations were low; according to them they were successful in Japan, LOL
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