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  1. #51
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    But isn't that all the 360 really is to? But the fact is that consoles are optimized to take full advantage of the hardware specs. Something you just can't really do with an at home PC.
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    As usual, the claim that PC's need to be upgraded every few months comes about. I've not upgraded anything in my 2009 build since, well, 2009 and i'm still playing most games on high-ish settings whilst keeping 1080p@60fps. Regardless, the PS4 isn't trying to compete with the PC. It's trying to compete with the other consoles.

    You do get some PC gamers that like to give console gamers a hard time, they are the worst offenders. Play whatever your budget and needs allow you to play, i say.

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    They really didn't need to defend anything. There will always be of elitist trolls who don't seem to understand the concept and joys of console
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by admartian View Post
    You didn't just try an XBOX 360 PC controller?
    No i did not... Why? Because i am not a heathen.
    Maths is biased! It keeps telling me the PS4 is 50% more powerful than XboxOne!
    Great song, should have more views :'(

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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by admartian View Post

    In the end, it's about how you the reader spin it - not necessarily GG's fault.
    If their comments can be "spun" then they weren't clear enough on their meaning when they made the comments, and that is absolutely their fault.

    A clear, accurate statement cannot be "spun" into a new meaning. It's meaning is clear and accurate. Only vague, inaccurate statements can be manipulated by the reader/listener.


    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyClaw View Post
    I can see how people can look into the statement wrong, but what they were meaning that is that no one part of the system is going to severely drag down the rest of the system like it did with the PS3. I have a feeling every component in the system is going to nicely complement each other.
    But that's still not true. The memory bandwidth is an obvious bottleneck that will prevent the GPU from being able to perform at 100%. Especially once you deduct the CPU usage from it.

    And that's something you can easily demonstrate on virtually any PC GPU. Take your video card, overclock the RAM, and check the performance. I cannot name a single GPU that doesn't show increased performance with faster RAM speeds, which means the memory bandwidth is a bottleneck.

    Based off the raw numbers that Sony gave, the PS4 GPU will be roughly equal to an AMD HD 7850, but once the CPU bandwidth is deducted it will have less bandwidth than the HD 7850. The HD 7850 itself is limited by it's memory bandwidth. Overclocking the memory alone can bring it very close to HD 7870 performance.


    Claiming that there are no bottlenecks means that you should be able to push the GPU to 100% of it's abilities and there is nothing else that will limit performance. In the PS4 the memory bandwidth will absolutely limit that performance, it is a bottleneck. As I said before, if there wasn't a bottleneck then every single game they make should be able to run in 1080p with 4X MSAA and 64-bit HDR @ 60 FPS in 3D, because the GPU alone is at least theoretically capable of it.
    Last edited by Completely Average; 04-12-2013 at 17:59.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBettaKnow View Post
    As usual, the claim that PC's need to be upgraded every few months comes about. I've not upgraded anything in my 2009 build since, well, 2009 and i'm still playing most games on high-ish settings whilst keeping 1080p@60fps. Regardless, the PS4 isn't trying to compete with the PC. It's trying to compete with the other consoles.

    You do get some PC gamers that like to give console gamers a hard time, they are the worst offenders. Play whatever your budget and needs allow you to play, i say.

    It's pretty easy to troll PC gamers that are trolling console gamers. Any PC gamer that is acting all high and mighty is nothing more then a dumbass in my opinion. I'm a PC gamer and most of the good games today are still games from 10+ years ago. So the fact that a PC gamer is acting all high and mighty is nothing more but a derp infront of his monitor. I still like gaming on the PC but I also like gaming on the console.
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  7. #57
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    I don't understand your point? There are still plenty good games and genres that are only on PC. Anyone trolling anyone is a bit of a bellend, both sides are guilty of that. As it stands I'm now primarily a PC gamer, it offers me everything I want whilst also offering me the performance I expect. I'm not ashamed to say it but I'm a graphics $#@! (and I feel everyone is, they just don't want to admit it otherwise we wouldn't be getting threads of how amazing PS4 games are looking) graphics mean a lot to me and a frame rate means even more.


    But that's not to say the PS4 won't be a very capable little box,in the console world it will be a beast. Just at the moment there isn't a single launch game I want for it or the games that I would get for it will be available on the PC where they'll undoubtedly be better ( in performance).

    I don't think GG need to defend the PS4 though. Anyone with an ounce of rational thinking would know that if you're after the best experience you can get for a budget price the PS4 is a no brainier


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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBettaKnow View Post
    I don't understand your point? There are still plenty good games and genres that are only on PC. Anyone trolling anyone is a bit of a bellend, both sides are guilty of that. As it stands I'm now primarily a PC gamer, it offers me everything I want whilst also offering me the performance I expect. I'm not ashamed to say it but I'm a graphics $#@! (and I feel everyone is, they just don't want to admit it otherwise we wouldn't be getting threads of how amazing PS4 games are looking) graphics mean a lot to me and a frame rate means even more.


    But that's not to say the PS4 won't be a very capable little box,in the console world it will be a beast. Just at the moment there isn't a single launch game I want for it or the games that I would get for it will be available on the PC where they'll undoubtedly be better ( in performance).

    I don't think GG need to defend the PS4 though. Anyone with an ounce of rational thinking would know that if you're after the best experience you can get for a budget price the PS4 is a no brainier


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    the main idea of what I wrote was that most PC trolls/elitist that I know will still latch onto older games but shy away from the newer PC games, yet they will still talk up on the PC even though they don't really play any of the newer games. I'm well aware of new games on the PC, no one has to tell me otherwise. However, it's the latching on of games made 10+ years ago that elitist will still cling to.

    There is a difference in being a graphics $#@! and wanting good looking graphics. Graphic $#@!s wont play a game that doesn't look as good as the highest end of graphics and in that case, I don't miss those guys and I don't consider them actually gamers but more on the casual end. To some this wouldn't make sense but to me I doubt a graphics $#@! actually plays enough games anyway since a graphics $#@! is to difficult to please. not worth the trouble.
    Last edited by Bigdoggy; 04-12-2013 at 18:33.
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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    If their comments can be "spun" then they weren't clear enough on their meaning when they made the comments, and that is absolutely their fault.

    A clear, accurate statement cannot be "spun" into a new meaning. It's meaning is clear and accurate. Only vague, inaccurate statements can be manipulated by the reader/listener.




    But that's still not true. The memory bandwidth is an obvious bottleneck that will prevent the GPU from being able to perform at 100%. Especially once you deduct the CPU usage from it.

    And that's something you can easily demonstrate on virtually any PC GPU. Take your video card, overclock the RAM, and check the performance. I cannot name a single GPU that doesn't show increased performance with faster RAM speeds, which means the memory bandwidth is a bottleneck.

    Based off the raw numbers that Sony gave, the PS4 GPU will be roughly equal to an AMD HD 7850, but once the CPU bandwidth is deducted it will have less bandwidth than the HD 7850. The HD 7850 itself is limited by it's memory bandwidth. Overclocking the memory alone can bring it very close to HD 7870 performance.


    Claiming that there are no bottlenecks means that you should be able to push the GPU to 100% of it's abilities and there is nothing else that will limit performance. In the PS4 the memory bandwidth will absolutely limit that performance, it is a bottleneck. As I said before, if there wasn't a bottleneck then every single game they make should be able to run in 1080p with 4X MSAA and 64-bit HDR @ 60 FPS in 3D, because the GPU alone is at least theoretically capable of it.
    As much as I wish and hope that games will be 1080p/60 I don't think we will see that this gen again...I just wish they would officially release all the hard specs on the systems so we can analyze it more!

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  10. #60
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  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdoggy View Post
    the main idea of what I wrote was that most PC trolls/elitist that I know will still latch onto older games but shy away from the newer PC games, yet they will still talk up on the PC even though they don't really play any of the newer games. I'm well aware of new games on the PC, no one has to tell me otherwise. However, it's the latching on of games made 10+ years ago that elitist will still cling to.

    There is a difference in being a graphics $#@! and wanting good looking graphics. Graphic $#@!s wont play a game that doesn't look as good as the highest end of graphics and in that case, I don't miss those guys and I don't consider them actually gamers but more on the casual end. To some this wouldn't make sense but to me I doubt a graphics $#@! actually plays enough games anyway since a graphics $#@! is to difficult to please. not worth the trouble.
    Oh right, like ones that champion games such as the first Warcraft, yeah I completely get what you mean in that regard lol. I suppose I see what you mean, I will play any game (an example I love Minecraft) but I do like it when a game has good looking visuals. I'm trying so hard to convince my friend to play Minecraft but he won't touch it at all because it looks too blocky

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave-The-Rave View Post
    I'd rather be a console gamer than a PC elitist anyday.
    You say it like by being a PC gamer you are automatically a elitist? Y'know there are console games there are just as bad.


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  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    Claiming that there are no bottlenecks means that you should be able to push the GPU to 100% of it's abilities and there is nothing else that will limit performance. In the PS4 the memory bandwidth will absolutely limit that performance, it is a bottleneck. As I said before, if there wasn't a bottleneck then every single game they make should be able to run in 1080p with 4X MSAA and 64-bit HDR @ 60 FPS in 3D, because the GPU alone is at least theoretically capable of it.
    Unbelievably bad logic as usual

  13. #63
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    Not sure why people say that PC gamers clinging onto 10 year old games are Elitest or the worst offenders because let's be fair, who's still buying Playstation games on their PS3/Vita's? Yeah exactly and they're older! The fact remains is that PC gamers don't have a problem with backwards compatibility so we tend to play games from even over 25 years old. I'm in the same category as I've bought even games form the 80's on GOG.

    I wonder if I come across as a PC Elitest sometimes, I don't think they'd say that if they saw my PS1, 2, 3, Vita, SNES, NES, N64, NGC, DC, NGPC, 128K+, BBC Master, Electron, Saturn, etc (I could go on forever) collection.

  14. #64
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    I was a pc gamer until ps released.

    As for graphics, I like (love) a game that looks great but it has to be a huge jump to make me invest money in the hardware.

    I dont think we will see as big of a jump this next gen as we did the previous two.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisw26308 View Post
    I was a pc gamer until ps released.

    As for graphics, I like (love) a game that looks great but it has to be a huge jump to make me invest money in the hardware.

    I dont think we will see as big of a jump this next gen as we did the previous two.

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    Nope ya right, but from what i can gather, plenty of ram, and good processing power will mean, enhanced more detail graphics, theoretically, some old/new pc games could make their way to the ps4, faster loading etc. It will still be worth investing in, in my humble opinion. I love the new control pad. I wanna make love to it.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varsh View Post
    Not sure why people say that PC gamers clinging onto 10 year old games are Elitest or the worst offenders because let's be fair, who's still buying Playstation games on their PS3/Vita's? Yeah exactly and they're older!
    The point was those who troll from their high horses on forums when the reality is that they play $#@! MMO's on low power laptops, those are the worst offenders

    The fact remains is that PC gamers don't have a problem with backwards compatibility so we tend to play games from even over 25 years old. I'm in the same category as I've bought even games form the 80's on GOG.
    Well you do really. Plenty of games from 10 years ago or longer no longer work on current windows OS. You can get some to run if you spend hours trawling the internet looking for workarounds. Lots of fun. When you buy off GOG you're buying it with a wrapper for new Windows OS. Not a whole lot different from buying HD collections

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varsh View Post
    Not sure why people say that PC gamers clinging onto 10 year old games are Elitest or the worst offenders because let's be fair, who's still buying Playstation games on their PS3/Vita's? Yeah exactly and they're older! The fact remains is that PC gamers don't have a problem with backwards compatibility so we tend to play games from even over 25 years old. I'm in the same category as I've bought even games form the 80's on GOG.

    I wonder if I come across as a PC Elitest sometimes, I don't think they'd say that if they saw my PS1, 2, 3, Vita, SNES, NES, N64, NGC, DC, NGPC, 128K+, BBC Master, Electron, Saturn, etc (I could go on forever) collection.
    I am really starting to get sick and tired of people not getting the main idea of my post when it's perfectly clear and I'm done stooping the post down more and more so people understand. If you don't get it, then that is that.

    it's always some person that has to make it out more then it actually is. ugh
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  18. #68
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    THAN not then.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    THAN not then.
    honestly, who gives a $#@!. o.O nothing is that important for a correction. lmfao
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  20. #70
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    Just annoys me when people always use then instead of than, then non English speakers start using it thinking it is correct.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdoggy View Post
    I am really starting to get sick and tired of people not getting the main idea of my post when it's perfectly clear and I'm done stooping the post down more and more so people understand.
    Well if everyone's misunderstanding you then perhaps it is you that isn't projecting your point across at all so let me break down that entire paragraph for you in response to my previous post ok?

    ...still latch onto older games but shy away from the newer PC games, yet they will still talk up on the PC even though they don't really play any of the newer games...
    There's a lot of PC elitists (I prefer the term enthusiasts thank you) here and I'm pretty sure us here most certainly do play newer games/

    ...I'm well aware of new games on the PC, no one has to tell me otherwise. However, it's the latching on of games made 10+ years ago that elitist will still cling to...
    We're very well aware of the games too, oh and we still play our games from 10+ years ago. I'm also pretty sure that there's hundreds of members here that play PS1 games on their Vitas and PS3s.

    There is a difference in being a graphics $#@! and wanting good looking graphics. Graphic $#@!s wont play a game that doesn't look as good as the highest end of graphics and in that case, I don't miss those guys and I don't consider them actually gamers but more on the casual end. To some this wouldn't make sense but to me I doubt a graphics $#@! actually plays enough games anyway since a graphics $#@! is to difficult to please. not worth the trouble.
    Just so you know I consider myself a PC enthusiast/elitist however I do also love using consoles but only for exclusives. When it comes between platforms it's always framerate and graphics (and in some cases modability) above anything else so in some cases you could call me a graphics $#@! (to be fair I am), despite this though I can play older games without a problem.

    I have pretty much contradicted your entire post of what you believe us PC trolls/elitists are.

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  23. #72
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    Anyone trolling anyone is a bit of a bellend


    Just end the thread on this. Its says it all.

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    Pc trolls should not compare pcs to the ps4

  25. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolguy View Post
    Pc trolls should not compare pcs to the ps4
    Any system comparison as a complete piece is worthless, if one wants to compare thing it should be done on specific pieces of hardware.
    Also it is good to remember that comparison should be done in level low enough that the information actually matters.

    IE.
    On subject of loading speeds and 1541 in general, one would throw this on the table.
    http://www.linusakesson.net/programm...ding/index.php
    Suddenly it is clear why things were slow, how it can remedied.. (even if it took a while to solve it..)

    This way there can be actual information in conversation from which we can learn and it is unlikely become a pissing competition against the wind.
    Last edited by jlippone; 04-13-2013 at 09:22.
    -------
    Couple of nice blog posts about OpenGL.
    The Truth on OpenGL Driver Quality
    Things that drive me nuts about OpenGL

  26. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolguy View Post
    Pc trolls should not compare pcs to the ps4
    Uh, No. It is Sony, GG/other devs and console gamer that compare the PS4 to PC. PC gamer just dissect it and destroy the PR marketing BS, and when it too much to handle the name calling start to come out. and this time it from Sony in house devs.

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