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  1. #51
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    I still love Splinter Cell but it's pretty much like Resident Evil now. Good games but went in a different direction to appeal to a bigger market. True stealth games are dying off about as fast as true survival horror games it seems.


  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hayzoo5 View Post
    1. you don't know what settings that clip is on, there could be way harder settings.
    2. jade may be trying to expand an audience that has traditionally privileged borderline autistic players who need extremely "realistic" gaming, which is understandable although maybe not desirable given the franchise history.

    i've seen over the years ubi abandon stealth and i do disagree with them doing this, but i think that as we continue pressuring them they'll find a way to slip it back into their games. the name of the game for devs really is money, so as long as we show them that we demand more difficulty they'll eventually give it to us.
    I don't care if the game is on easy you should never get away with sticking your head out, in broad day light, with two guys looking directly at you and they don't immediately react to take you down.

    The reason I feel the way I do about this game now is because nobody likes to has a series they have loved and have toe focus completely changed. Yes you can still play stealthy but the focus is action action action! Face paced, chain kills together, blow stuff up! And for me I'm getting a bit fatigued by all these high action, movie like games. I like having the option to retreat to a slower paced game if I want to and maybe I still can with this game but again, the focus is action.

    To me it's disappointing because I feel like the game company is 'giving in' to implementing all this high action stuff, because this has been the trend in many games recently, and can't stick with what a game or series was traditionally about. A game that is historically about stealth is now focused on action and as a fan I feel alienated by that. That's how I feel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Don't think it was ever alive. It was crap from the first one. They never did anything right except shadows.
    This I don't like. Why do you think that?

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Don't think it was ever alive. It was crap from the first one. They never did anything right except shadows.
    Your comment made me do this:


    They were generally well received. I don't know about others, but the first one won E3 and GOTY awards. And despite many fans not being a fan of Double Agent, the Xbox version won many awards (which is humorous to me as the Xbox is who people blame the most for the rise in shooters... but that's neither here nor there).

  4. #54
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    ^like for the pic lol. It's been so long since I have played this game but everything about it was out of whack. I can't speak for the later games but I'm sure they still didn't quite get how to do stealth and it seems they were giving up as they went along anyway.

    Basically, to them, stealth meant not being able to get spotted by an enemy from 5 feet away. You could jump around, have a little picnic as long as you were in the dark. There was no concept of sound. You could whatever the **** you wanted.

    Have you guys played Thief 1 and 2? Ever played Rainbow Six (original ones), ever played MGS? How stupid and useless was that splitting-of-the-legs maneuver? (or whatever it was called) What about the fact that you could sit still, aim all you wanted and still missed from 10 feet away lol. I get it, they wanted you to sit still and try hard because they knew the game had no other challenge.

    If you could shoot more realistically (because in real life, you can blow someone’s brain’s out from 10 ft away, sitting still while they’re standing still), then you’d have to add more elements to the game and there weren’t any. What else was there? Did an enemy form a squad? Did they check door to door? Did they flashbang you? Did they flank you? Did they alert others through the radio if they found you? There’s none of that $#@! in there and they wouldn’t know how to implement it either.

    Only place stealth lives on now are online games and it’s glorious.

  5. #55
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    So stealth is not a nice thing? Then i have must done something wrong when i played Dishonored in complete stealth mode. Tried to avoid as many enemies as possible. Even restarted whole levels multiple times when i got caught. I guess i´m not the typical mainstream player who he is speaking off. Doh!

    What a complete joke. Splinter Cell´s strongest values WAS the stealth part. Man i remember days on PS2 playing Chaos Theory with my friend and we tried so many ways to get pass some very hard points and how we chuckle and high-five when we´v done it well. But hey the new formula seems always the same these days: Bigger, better, bloodier. If u don´t know how to catch new players just put in more guns and a sloppy coop. (Dead Space 3 greetings)

  6. #56
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    Did they take out the part where you had to hide the bodies in the dark and if you didn’t, it’d fail the mission because apparently some imaginary guard walked past these dead bodies within minutes, freak accident right? What are the chances it’s always going to be within minutes? Lol. Heck even Hitman had better stealth and a better concept of hiding bodies.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    ^like for the pic lol. It's been so long since I have played this game but everything about it was out of whack. I can't speak for the later games but I'm sure they still didn't quite get how to do stealth and it seems they were giving up as they went along anyway.

    Basically, to them, stealth meant not being able to get spotted by an enemy from 5 feet away. You could jump around, have a little picnic as long as you were in the dark. There was no concept of sound. You could whatever the **** you wanted.

    Have you guys played Thief 1 and 2? Ever played Rainbow Six (original ones), ever played MGS? How stupid and useless was that splitting-of-the-legs maneuver? (or whatever it was called) What about the fact that you could sit still, aim all you wanted and still missed from 10 feet away lol. I get it, they wanted you to sit still and try hard because they knew the game had no other challenge.

    If you could shoot more realistically (because in real life, you can blow someone’s brain’s out from 10 ft away, sitting still while they’re standing still), then you’d have to add more elements to the game and there weren’t any. What else was there? Did an enemy form a squad? Did they check door to door? Did they flashbang you? Did they flank you? Did they alert others through the radio if they found you? There’s none of that $#@! in there and they wouldn’t know how to implement it either.

    Only place stealth lives on now are online games and it’s glorious.
    The pinnacle of the series - Chaos Theory, did have sound as an integral part of the gameplay, even so that in co-op, you had to be quiet in voice chat near enemies. I don't remember if the 1 and 2 had that, but after replaying 3 so much, I can't go back to the other ones.

    Realistically, you can't aim steady no matter what. You can headshot enemies, but it's just harder. In Conviction, you can easily headshot while blindfiring.

    Did they take out the part where you had to hide the bodies in the dark and if you didn’t, it’d fail the mission because apparently some imaginary guard walked past these dead bodies within minutes, freak accident right? What are the chances it’s always going to be within minutes? Lol. Heck even Hitman had better stealth and a better concept of hiding bodies.
    They did take it out of Chaos Theory, only wandering guards or security cameras could discover them. It didn't fail the mission either, guards just got upgraded gear and were more alert.

    Hitman had great stealth, a very unique approach to it.
    Last edited by Naxi; 04-25-2013 at 16:22.

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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by podsaurus View Post
    I don't care if the game is on easy you should never get away with sticking your head out, in broad day light, with two guys looking directly at you and they don't immediately react to take you down.

    The reason I feel the way I do about this game now is because nobody likes to has a series they have loved and have toe focus completely changed. Yes you can still play stealthy but the focus is action action action! Face paced, chain kills together, blow stuff up! And for me I'm getting a bit fatigued by all these high action, movie like games. I like having the option to retreat to a slower paced game if I want to and maybe I still can with this game but again, the focus is action.

    To me it's disappointing because I feel like the game company is 'giving in' to implementing all this high action stuff, because this has been the trend in many games recently, and can't stick with what a game or series was traditionally about. A game that is historically about stealth is now focused on action and as a fan I feel alienated by that. That's how I feel.



    This I don't like. Why do you think that?
    If I want high action I play Quake or Battlefield or something similar.
    This latest and even Conviction seems a jack of all trades master of none.




    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    ^like for the pic lol. It's been so long since I have played this game but everything about it was out of whack. I can't speak for the later games but I'm sure they still didn't quite get how to do stealth and it seems they were giving up as they went along anyway.

    Basically, to them, stealth meant not being able to get spotted by an enemy from 5 feet away. You could jump around, have a little picnic as long as you were in the dark. There was no concept of sound. You could whatever the **** you wanted.

    Have you guys played Thief 1 and 2? Ever played Rainbow Six (original ones), ever played MGS? How stupid and useless was that splitting-of-the-legs maneuver? (or whatever it was called) What about the fact that you could sit still, aim all you wanted and still missed from 10 feet away lol. I get it, they wanted you to sit still and try hard because they knew the game had no other challenge.

    If you could shoot more realistically (because in real life, you can blow someone’s brain’s out from 10 ft away, sitting still while they’re standing still), then you’d have to add more elements to the game and there weren’t any. What else was there? Did an enemy form a squad? Did they check door to door? Did they flashbang you? Did they flank you? Did they alert others through the radio if they found you? There’s none of that $#@! in there and they wouldn’t know how to implement it either.

    Only place stealth lives on now are online games and it’s glorious.
    The original game did gimp the controls forcing us to be slow and take time and I guess to make us not want to use lethal force because aiming was a pain in the arse. Although trying to run and gun it was fun, me and my friend tried over and over to do it.

    I liked the games mostly because they were political and replicated similar circumstances in the real world.
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    Last edited by keefy; 04-25-2013 at 16:28.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    ^like for the pic lol. It's been so long since I have played this game but everything about it was out of whack. I can't speak for the later games but I'm sure they still didn't quite get how to do stealth and it seems they were giving up as they went along anyway.

    Basically, to them, stealth meant not being able to get spotted by an enemy from 5 feet away. You could jump around, have a little picnic as long as you were in the dark. There was no concept of sound. You could whatever the **** you wanted.

    Have you guys played Thief 1 and 2? Ever played Rainbow Six (original ones), ever played MGS? How stupid and useless was that splitting-of-the-legs maneuver? (or whatever it was called) What about the fact that you could sit still, aim all you wanted and still missed from 10 feet away lol. I get it, they wanted you to sit still and try hard because they knew the game had no other challenge.

    If you could shoot more realistically (because in real life, you can blow someone’s brain’s out from 10 ft away, sitting still while they’re standing still), then you’d have to add more elements to the game and there weren’t any. What else was there? Did an enemy form a squad? Did they check door to door? Did they flashbang you? Did they flank you? Did they alert others through the radio if they found you? There’s none of that $#@! in there and they wouldn’t know how to implement it either.

    Only place stealth lives on now are online games and it’s glorious.
    You have some good points there.

    There were a few times where you were in the "dark" but no matter what an enemy couldn't see you, even if you could see everything around you in the "dark". I don't think this was a matter of having brightness turned up, as others have noticed it too. The "dark" and dark worked the same.

    At least from what I remember, sound was definitely a part of the game. I can't remember if the first has it, I'm not remembering it from my current playthrough, but others have the sound meter. On one of the levels I rushed through some glass on the floor I didn't see, and a guard from another room came to investigate the noise. I've also had them hear me if I moved too quickly.

    I definitely get annoyed at the accuracy. The pistol is pointless for accuracy as you can't hit the broad side of a barn with it. It took me five shots, crouched and not moving for a few seconds, to hit a light that was maybe 8 feet away. Then, with the SC-20K, you have uber accuracy when you zoom in.

    This I would definitely enjoy. Having them call others to your presence and pull maneuvers to find/catch you. I'm trying to think if any of the games equipped enemies with flashlights. You would think every guard on every level would have them.

    I can also think of maybe one scenario in the first game where I used the leg split thing. When you are entering the jail, in the hall with all the cells. I use it any time I play that area, simply because I don't know of any other places it's really useful.

    Hiding the bodies was also a pain. Hitman was definitely better at this. I would actually love a game that took the best of both series'. I don't think you have to hide the bodies in the first Splinter Cell, but because I'm used to getting punished for it in others, I'm always doing it.

    I kind of rushed this as I'm having to get out for a bit and wanted to get this out real quick, hopefully it was readable and got my points out. I'll probably think of something else later.

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  11. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Basically, to them, stealth meant not being able to get spotted by an enemy from 5 feet away. You could jump around, have a little picnic as long as you were in the dark. There was no concept of sound. You could whatever the **** you wanted.
    This really isn't accurate at all, not in Chaos Theory anyways (didn't play the first two). Sound was literally half the game. Enemies would hear you and you had to match what you did with the environment. So many times I'd move too quickly, or I'd step onto a different material and suddenly my feet are clapping loudly, then the nearby enemies would look around. Had I been too loud, they'll become alarmed, turn on a flashlight, and search the area, even calling for nearby allies to come help them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    If you could shoot more realistically (because in real life, you can blow someone’s brain’s out from 10 ft away, sitting still while they’re standing still), then you’d have to add more elements to the game and there weren’t any. What else was there? Did an enemy form a squad? Did they check door to door? Did they flashbang you? Did they flank you? Did they alert others through the radio if they found you? There’s none of that $#@! in there and they wouldn’t know how to implement it either.
    + Enemies would move together or split up
    + They check through rooms, even kicking in and unlocking doors if needed
    + No flashbangs, but they would light the area up to find you
    + I've been flanked before, though it's not too often
    + They'd rush and hit the alarm, which actually causes other soldiers in areas of the level to be alert or even fortify their position. If they're nearby they'll move to the scene

    You seem to be unnecessarily harsh on the stealth and AI in the SC games. Also, realistic shooting? Huh? Worked fine for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    This really isn't accurate at all, not in Chaos Theory anyways (didn't play the first two). Sound was literally half the game. Enemies would hear you and you had to match what you did with the environment. So many times I'd move too quickly, or I'd step onto a different material and suddenly my feet are clapping loudly, then the nearby enemies would look around. Had I been too loud, they'll become alarmed, turn on a flashlight, and search the area, even calling for nearby allies to come help them.
    You're lucky I don't have the game anymore and I don't have time to go back into it and it's been so long since I played it.

    But here are some examples of what I'm saying from the first damn video I looked on youtube lol:

    8:45, the enemy on the bottom hears nothing.
    Look at 11:36 and how smoothly he walks by the enemy even though he's literally right in front of him...you can see the damn shadow lol.
    Then move on to 13:00...this is the easiest stealth game I've ever seen in my entire life. You can literally go anywhere and you're safe...no one ever sees the three little night-vision lights on top of his head in all that darkness.

    + Enemies would move together or split up
    + They check through rooms, even kicking in and unlocking doors if needed
    + No flashbangs, but they would light the area up to find you
    + I've been flanked before, though it's not too often
    + They'd rush and hit the alarm, which actually causes other soldiers in areas of the level to be alert or even fortify their position. If they're nearby they'll move to the scene

    You seem to be unnecessarily harsh on the stealth and AI in the SC games. Also, realistic shooting? Huh? Worked fine for me.






    Meh. Just looking at these videos make me wanna puke. I have no idea how this series has gotten this far but these people really don't know how to make a game.

    As for the shooting, look above you, I'm not the only one with that issue. If you want to understand it better, look at the crosshairs and how wide they get for every little movement you make, that is unrealistic and stupid. No one is that inaccurate by moving an inch in real life. It just forces you to stay still and not move at all...like you should be as a person who is supposed to be awesome at room-clearing in case it's needed.

    I'll give benefit of the doubt and let you show me that the A.I. is much better than that...like group attacks you're speaking of...'cause I don't remember that one bit.

  13. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttech10 View Post
    The problem, though, is stealth and original Splinter Cell gameplay seems to be an add-on to the game. Not the base.

    Quotes like this aren't promising:


    Jade seems to think that past Splinter Cell games were too complex and difficult. She shouldn't have to say they "brought back the purest hardcore version" when talking about how the game is like the ones that made the franchise (which I still haven't seen this).

    As they go on talking about and showing off the game, the more obvious it is they are taking a more casual and action based approach.

    There is absolutely no way that this type of AI should be in a game. And it could be argued this isn't even the worst they've shown.
    That's just stupid.
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    ^I can't tell what's going on there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    ^I can't tell what's going on there.
    He's in broad daylight with guys looking right at him - doing nothing.
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    Oh yea, I removed that part from my post lol. I know, compare that to MGS4. Pshhh.

    But really, you guys need to play the original Thief and the sequel. Some of the most amazingly stealthy games I've ever played.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Oh yea, I removed that part from my post lol. I know, compare that to MGS4. Pshhh.

    But really, you guys need to play the original Thief and the sequel. Some of the most amazingly stealthy games I've ever played.
    I'd put Deus Ex HR up there too.

    Haven't played Thief myself. Pretty much most games I try to add in some sort of stealth aspect. Unless that game just really wants you to barge in (Gears, Uncharted etc) and take names.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    You're lucky I don't have the game anymore and I don't have time to go back into it and it's been so long since I played it.

    But here are some examples of what I'm saying from the first damn video I looked on youtube lol:

    8:45, the enemy on the bottom hears nothing.
    Look at 11:36 and how smoothly he walks by the enemy even though he's literally right in front of him...you can see the damn shadow lol.
    Then move on to 13:00...this is the easiest stealth game I've ever seen in my entire life. You can literally go anywhere and you're safe...no one ever sees the three little night-vision lights on top of his head in all that darkness.








    Meh. Just looking at these videos make me wanna puke. I have no idea how this series has gotten this far but these people really don't know how to make a game.

    As for the shooting, look above you, I'm not the only one with that issue. If you want to understand it better, look at the crosshairs and how wide they get for every little movement you make, that is unrealistic and stupid. No one is that inaccurate by moving an inch in real life. It just forces you to stay still and not move at all...like you should be as a person who is supposed to be awesome at room-clearing in case it's needed.

    I'll give benefit of the doubt and let you show me that the A.I. is much better than that...like group attacks you're speaking of...'cause I don't remember that one bit.
    You need to go play deniable ops in conviction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    You need to go play deniable ops in conviction.



    and this is on realistic settings, how will it be on casual or easy? They're deaf and blind?

    Sir this is not stealth, they had better stealth than this in an action game called UC2.

    EDIT: Play a real game ya boobs :P

    I'd still play this $#@!...just $#@!ing amazing amazing amazing...loved this to death. I'd play it for hours at night. And this is back in 2007, not even 1999 or something.







    These videos don't do justice, maybe they're playing at easy difficulty because this game is tough as $#@! and there are huge palaces to explore and steal from.
    Last edited by Omar; 04-26-2013 at 05:29.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post



    and this is on realistic settings, how will it be on casual or easy? They're deaf and blind?

    Sir this is not stealth, they had better stealth than this in an action game called UC2.
    Meh I liek that game. Give me any espionage game and I'll buy it. Heck I loved Alpha Protocol...
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    Quote Originally Posted by admartian View Post
    I'd put Deus Ex HR up there too.

    Haven't played Thief myself. Pretty much most games I try to add in some sort of stealth aspect. Unless that game just really wants you to barge in (Gears, Uncharted etc) and take names.
    Loved Dues Ex (original one), you should NOT miss Thief 1 and 2...some of the best commentary ever...they go a little into religion and stuff, just amazing setup and gameplay. You get immersed into it to the point where you feel like you're there. Amazing music.
    Quote Originally Posted by admartian View Post
    Meh I liek that game. Give me any espionage game and I'll buy it. Heck I loved Alpha Protocol...
    Deniable Ops? Sure yea I mean, it looks like a fun game but if you're going with the thrill you get in a good stealth game, it's just not there. Deniable Ops looks like a good action game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Deniable Ops? Sure yea I mean, it looks like a fun game but if you're going with the thrill you get in a good stealth game, it's just not there. Deniable Ops looks like a good action game.
    Switch off weapons and turn on no detection mode

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Switch off weapons and turn on no detection mode
    This.

    That and I'm probably one of the few to love the old school Hitman mode in Absolution. That game is getting unnecessary hate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Switch off weapons and turn on no detection mode
    1) That would ruin the purpose of a stealth game.

    2) That would ruin the purpose of a stealth game.

    A stealth game is about how the enemy would react to different situations (including weapons and non-lethal) and how realistically they'd react. Yes, we know that the AI knows exactly where you are at all times. That's not the point.

    Detection mode sounds like something where they'd be able to spot you from a mile away. You know the games with the worst AI have that problem right? BF3 e.g.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    8:45, the enemy on the bottom hears nothing.
    Look at 11:36 and how smoothly he walks by the enemy even though he's literally right in front of him...you can see the damn shadow lol.
    Then move on to 13:00...this is the easiest stealth game I've ever seen in my entire life. You can literally go anywhere and you're safe...no one ever sees the three little night-vision lights on top of his head in all that darkness.
    These are all extremely specific scenarios that remain contrary to the general gameplay the game has. And of course enemies won't see your glowing goggles because this is a video game. I agree there are sometimes iffy moments in the game, but that doesn't change the core experience. You can ignore the fact that under most circumstances enemies do see and hear and react to you quite well, but it doesn't prove convincing, especially to me who just did a full playthrough of the game on expert a couple of days ago. I got destroyed numerous times for very small mistakes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    -snip-
    I can't bother to watch all of these videos because I live in America, and my connection is godawful. It took forever just to load the examples you listed in the first video.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    As for the shooting, look above you, I'm not the only one with that issue. If you want to understand it better, look at the crosshairs and how wide they get for every little movement you make, that is unrealistic and stupid. No one is that inaccurate by moving an inch in real life. It just forces you to stay still and not move at all...like you should be as a person who is supposed to be awesome at room-clearing in case it's needed.
    Well yes, this is because it's a stealth-based game after all. I found the shooting to be quite balanced, only relying on it in desperate times. Besides, you can move slowly without having your reticule expand. I had no issue taking out guards and lights, even from fair distances (which was often to avoid them hearing me). Really, my only complaint with the stealth aspect is how I can interrogate a guy within clear hearing distance of another enemy, and he won't hear us. That's the only real issue I've noticed.

    I guess it's fine if you randomly despise the gameplay, but I'm not seeing what's wrong. You do have to sneak. You can't run around accomplishing your goals. You have to plan and strategize in certain areas, taking your time to see patrol patterns. If you play on expert and $#@! up, you're likely going to die horribly, because the enemies will chase, search, and gun you down. Really, it feels more like you don't like the games because they're not Thief (which, by the way, isn't that the game where hiding under a table will keep you safe?).
    Last edited by Nerevar; 04-26-2013 at 12:11.

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    Sufi not evey game is perfect and there will be some minor issues. Mostly I thought SC was great fun to play. There are always those WTF moments in games even now after all these big advances in technology there are still problems. Look at glitchy Assassins Creed games.

    I think for whatever reason you just don't like SC games and that's ok. But you seem to be looking for any excuse so say 'See! The games are terrible don't ever play them again!' And you're trying to slam this idea into our heads and make us believe you're right. I'm sorry but I don't agree with you.

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