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  1. #1
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    Will low-end PC's hold back nextgen games?

    Every article held for PC vs console always brings forth discussions of consoles vs high-end PC's.
    Will PS4 be as powerful, will they be equal or will it even surpass.

    Let's not kick that dead horse, I would rather raise the topic of: consoles vs low-end PC's.

    Could these lesser spec'd PC's potentially hold back multiplatform games? Or will they fall in line with consoles to meet the new minimum requirements forcing PC gamers to upgrade their old rigs?

    What do we know about the PS4?
    Memory is easily translatable (8GB GDDR5), the CPU currently remains shrouded in mystery however thanks to NVIDIA the power of the GPU is shown for all to see.

    console_vs_pc.jpg

    PC has had a number of big games come out recently so looking at the low-end specs of each we should be able to somewhat compare with what the PS4 is offering.

    First up Bioshock Infinite - http://irrationalgames.com/...

    Memory: 2 GB
    GPU: NVIDIA 8800 GT

    Memory is obviously far better in the PS4 and if you take another look at NVIDIA's graph posted above you can see the 8800 GPU sits just above the PS3.

    Next up Tomb Raider - http://au.gamespot.com/news...

    Memory: 1GB
    GPU: nVidia 8600

    The specs of Tomb Raider are lower than that of Bioshock, so let's not take too much time glazing over this one.

    Lastly the behemoth that is Crysis 3 - http://www.game-debate.com/...

    Memory: 2GB
    GPU: GeForce GT 520

    Crysis 3 has higher requirements than that of the previous two games however the GPU is not listed on NVIDIA's graph but if we go to Wiki we can see the GPU flops only rate at 155.5 far under the 1200-1300 of the PS4.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

    So what does this mean for multiplatform games? Will they still continue to target 2GB ram machines with lousy GPU's or will PC owners be forced to upgrade their machines and keep up with the rest of us?

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    No that's not how it works. Prepare to be ripped to shreds by the PC goon squad by the way

    The console versions of games will be made in parallel to each other and so only the weaker of the two will set the base line for next gen games (probably Xbox), lowest common denominator in other words. PC versions obviously scale and obviously are less optimised because of that. Using Bioshock Infinite as an example, but any multi platform game will do, the lowest settings actually look worse than 6 year old console versions.

    So no, low-end PC's don't hold games back because it's easy to strip away features, textures, AA, everything to make almost any game run on them. Mid-range is and will always be the target

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    the weaker of the two will set the base line for next gen games (probably Xbox)


    So you're thinking PC will be forced to keep up with the next xbox as the lowest common denominator?
    I just ask because no other gen has shown console power this close to PC before so it is interesting who will be on the lower end for a change.
    Last edited by Bitbydeath; 04-15-2013 at 09:27.

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    By this time next year, or maybe in 18 months, mid-range PC's will be at that level already (they are right now - the new consoles use mid range GPU's, but you have to factor in optimisation for closed box system too)

    Developers for PC don't target low-end or high-end, they target mid-range and then scale backwards and forwards as much as they need to

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    The memory requirement for the games above are minimum specs.

    Recommended specs for example crysis 3 is 4gb PLUS vram.

    So if you have. 2gb video card recommended specs for crysis 3 would be 6gb.

    Also feature sets are based on dx features. Dx 11 will now be used in parallel with dx 9 to develop pc games. Previously it has not been worth most devs time to run a dx 11 wrapper. Now it is.
    Last edited by mynd; 04-15-2013 at 09:52.
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    I play mostly exclusives or games that aren't ported to PC anyway so this doesn't apply to me.
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    Pretty much agree with Cyn, other than the unnecessary 'goon squad' comment; that is.

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    DICE programmed BF3 with only DX11 capability so windows XP users couldnt play it also if yu had a DX 9 card but have Visto or seven couldnt play it.
    Developers are not supporting low end stuff thesedays, even Valve only support DX9 in their new games but when HL2 came out DX 7 was supported.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyn View Post
    No that's not how it works. Prepare to be ripped to shreds by the PC goon squad by the way

    The console versions of games will be made in parallel to each other and so only the weaker of the two will set the base line for next gen games (probably Xbox), lowest common denominator in other words. PC versions obviously scale and obviously are less optimised because of that. Using Bioshock Infinite as an example, but any multi platform game will do, the lowest settings actually look worse than 6 year old console versions.

    So no, low-end PC's don't hold games back because it's easy to strip away features, textures, AA, everything to make almost any game run on them. Mid-range is and will always be the target
    LOL! PC Goon Squad!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bitbydeath View Post


    So you're thinking PC will be forced to keep up with the next xbox as the lowest common denominator?
    I just ask because no other gen has shown console power this close to PC before so it is interesting who will be on the lower end for a change.
    PS3 generation was a lot closer to high end PC's than PS4 is now.
    And no, low end PC's will not hold anything back for the simple fact that companies target consoles as the main platform for their games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by baho View Post
    PS3 generation was a lot closer to high end PC's than PS4 is now.
    And no, low end PC's will not hold anything back for the simple fact that companies target consoles as the main platform for their games.
    I disagree with that.
    When PS3 arrived in 2007 so did Crysis.
    PS3 is not near the graphical quality of what Crysis had shown back then and still isn't.

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    Console tech/price is one of the factors that helps drive down pc component costs. It will only be a matter of time till all mid range rigs are on equal footing with competitive pricing. Just how it works. 2 maybe 3 years after ps4 launch forums will be back to normal with PC enthusiasts bragging that their rig is more powerful than the ps4 and they only paid X amount for it.

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    I don't think it will low end PC's will hold anything back because so far from what we all heard the PS4 is easy to develope for which means less risk and more reward. I think the PS4 will get a lot of games the PC has because of the easy to develop for route that Sony took. I like gaming on the PC and consoles so I have nothing negative to say from one platform to the other between the PS3 and PC or PS4 and PC. We could see more games use the PC has a main platform and then tweaking it a little more for the PS4 since it's easy.
    Last edited by Coconut_Crunch; 04-15-2013 at 21:51.
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    Whatever Nextgen produces PC's will be able to play in some form and upgrades will be available as time goes on
    Although PC are technically more powerful games on console do tend to push hardware above what can be done on similar Hardware even more powerful hardware and those nextgen consoles will be producing things PC gamers will want to upgrade for even though their current hardware is technically more powerful
    PC gamers have nothing to worry about, just as long as they don't think they are gonna be able play every game in the future at max setting without upgrading even if their current hardware suggests they don't need to when comparing it to nextgen consoles because it don't work that way.

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    To make it simple, yes they do hold it back but we can't avoid that. I don't think consoles ever held back PC development, other than limiting it by the fact that console development is priority, then the PCs get a slightly better port.

    As consoles approach the top end PCs and outpacing the mainstream PCs, it's only good for the PC gamers as their games will have less porting issues and there will be less of a soft limit.

    Though at the same time, I think it's bad for PC gaming as a whole since this move will also get more PC gamers on board for console purchases.

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    Not any more than current consoles have held back PC gaming (very little) DICE, Crytek and CDPR have all shown that it is possible to release a game on 2 seperate platforms whilst also pushing one to the limit. Though, not every company works the way that they do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Though at the same time, I think it's bad for PC gaming as a whole since this move will also get more PC gamers on board for console purchases.
    I don't think it will. There are things as PC gamers we like from our system (keyboard and mouse, Building it, Overclocking, frame rates, resolutions, multi-display, private servers - the list goes on.) that will never be able to be replicated in a console environment to sway a PC enthusiast from the PC side back to consoles. When they first release some may be tempted, i don't think many will make the switch though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBettaKnow View Post
    Not any more than current consoles have held back PC gaming (very little) DICE, Crytek and CDPR have all shown that it is possible to release a game on 2 seperate platforms whilst also pushing one to the limit. Though, not every company works the way that they do.
    I don't think consoles have ever substantially held back PCs, you have to look at it from a perspective. A lot of these games were originally made for the consoles or even if they were made for the PC as lead platform, they know their sales are on the consoles so they do limit PC in that respect but you're getting a game you possibly may not have gotten otherwise.

    Now if they really want to take advantage of the PC, they can make a game like Planet Side 2. You can't even port that onto the consoles.

    Low-end PCs are the biggest issue PC development has. Otherwise, like I've always argued, PCs are theoretically already in the next-next-gen but due to the majority PCs being low powered, the power will never be utilized.

    I don't think it will. There are things as PC gamers we like from our system (keyboard and mouse, Building it, Overclocking, frame rates, resolutions, multi-display, private servers - the list goes on.) that will never be able to be replicated in a console environment to sway a PC enthusiast from the PC side back to consoles. When they first release some may be tempted, i don't think many will make the switch though.
    You're speaking about the enthusiasts, I'm speaking about people who play for fun and not upgrade every time there's an upgrade available. There are certain things that consoles can never replicate and vice versa, but the thing is that a lot of enthusiasts even, paid attention to consoles (not necessarily left PC gaming) but I'm positive some mainstream will pick up on it just like some console gamers move to PC games...just that consoles are likely getting more defectors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bitbydeath View Post
    I disagree with that.
    When PS3 arrived in 2007 so did Crysis.
    PS3 is not near the graphical quality of what Crysis had shown back then and still isn't.
    PS3 released in 2006 at the same time with the geforce 8 series. If we compare PS4 release date with PS3 release date (considering no new PC hardware is released until then) it will be Titan vs PS4 and 8800gtx vs PS3. The numbers are:
    500gflops 8800gtx vs RSX ~200gflops
    4500gflops titan vs 7850 ~1800gflops

    Don't forget the xbox came 1 year earlier and had an even more powerful GPU than PS3 (geforce8 series wasn't released yet) so yeah, it was MUCH closer than to high end pc's than it is now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by baho View Post
    PS3 released in 2006 at the same time with the geforce 8 series. If we compare PS4 release date with PS3 release date (considering no new PC hardware is released until then) it will be Titan vs PS4 and 8800gtx vs PS3. The numbers are:
    500gflops 8800gtx vs RSX ~200gflops
    4500gflops titan vs 7850 ~1800gflops

    Don't forget the xbox came 1 year earlier and had an even more powerful GPU than PS3 (geforce8 series wasn't released yet) so yeah, it was MUCH closer than to high end pc's than it is now.
    Still you can't compare the $1000 titan (and its only a GPU) with a $400 console!!!
    Only really hard core enthusiasts own a titan and the PS4 will be available for millions of people.
    The PS4s power will be between a mid-high end PC obviously far from what the titan can offer but for an affordably price. I think thats the most consoleros can expect form the PS4!

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    Who cares about PC specs versus console specs? I don't really care since I like games on both the PC and console and I don't always get the game on the PC even though it's better. I tend to flip flop between PC and consoles to whatever I feel like getting for whatever platform at the time. If I know some friends are going to get the game on the console, then I will to. I get a lot of games on the PC also. I always thought even PS3 games were made through a PC anyway and the same goes with the Xbox, PS2, Nintendo and all that stuff. I really don't see what there is to troll about. hahaha
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bitbydeath View Post


    So you're thinking PC will be forced to keep up with the next xbox as the lowest common denominator?
    I just ask because no other gen has shown console power this close to PC before so it is interesting who will be on the lower end for a change.
    PC's aren't "forced" to do anything. They have been held back by console ports for a very long time in terms of graphics.
    In terms of memory, between virtual memory, main memory and GPU memory? It wont be very long before consoles are at the bottom of the list again.
    Even the current specs only put it on par.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by baho View Post
    PS3 released in 2006 at the same time with the geforce 8 series. If we compare PS4 release date with PS3 release date (considering no new PC hardware is released until then) it will be Titan vs PS4 and 8800gtx vs PS3. The numbers are:
    500gflops 8800gtx vs RSX ~200gflops
    4500gflops titan vs 7850 ~1800gflops

    Don't forget the xbox came 1 year earlier and had an even more powerful GPU than PS3 (geforce8 series wasn't released yet) so yeah, it was MUCH closer than to high end pc's than it is now.
    Yes but as Pulci said we must look at other factors and not just the GPU.
    Memory for example, the only game currently using 8GB on PC is Crysis 3 and when it is set to Ultra.
    It would be quite a large jump to expect PC to jump from 2GB as the low-end to 8GB.
    At least i would think?

    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    PC's aren't "forced" to do anything. They have been held back by console ports for a very long time in terms of graphics.
    In terms of memory, between virtual memory, main memory and GPU memory? It wont be very long before consoles are at the bottom of the list again.
    Even the current specs only put it on par.
    PC's are also held back by PC's. If the majority of the gaming userbase on PC has Geforce 8800's, then devs have no choice but to support that otherwise they will not get as many sales.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bitbydeath View Post
    Yes but as Pulci said we must look at other factors and not just the GPU.
    Memory for example, the only game currently using 8GB on PC is Crysis 3 and when it is set to Ultra.
    It would be quite a large jump to expect PC to jump from 2GB as the low-end to 8GB.
    At least i would think?
    Firstly, most games run better with 4gb because they don't virtual page, which means they are already using more than 2gtb.
    Secondly, all it takes is a system with 4gb and a GPU with 4gb and your already at where your talking about.
    PC's are also held back by PC's. If the majority of the gaming userbase on PC has Geforce 8800's, then devs have no choice but to support that otherwise they will not get as many sales.
    Actually it has nothing to do with graphics cards.
    What devs have to do is pick an O/S.

    DX 11 can run DX 9 features no problems by simply targeting that feature level (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-nz/libr...=vs.85%29.aspx) , however, DX 11 only works on Vista, 7 and 8.

    If a dev want to target XP based machines, then they must use DX9. Other than that there is absolutely nothing stopping devs programming whatever GPU they want to on PC.

    It has to do with the O/S NOT the GPU that you target.

    XP has been holding back gaming, NOT GPU's.
    Last edited by mynd; 04-17-2013 at 00:28.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

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    Check steam stats for a rough idea of gamers systems, shows the most popular configs.
    LOL 2% use 56k modems
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    Last edited by keefy; 04-17-2013 at 00:31.

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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    Check steam stats for a rough idea of gamers systems, shows the most popular configs.
    LOL 2% use 56k modems
    http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey
    I am glad you posted this, looking at that, 50% of users could handle DX11 features, and 80% can handle DX 11 as an API.

    Makes my choice a little bit easier. I have been on the fence about upgrading my engine to DX11.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

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