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  1. #176
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    Lets keep the dicussions on topic no need for any cheap shots we're all adults here

    ~~~OLD SKOOL~~~

  2. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronSOLDIER View Post
    Awesome thread at this point.
    Yep, this thread is full of win. lol

  3. #178
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    Well I guess we can all only hope the MS does not cut their prices next gen, then no one will get upset.

    I guess?
    Last edited by mynd; 05-19-2013 at 03:35.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

  4. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeviousOne View Post
    Lets keep the dicussions on topic no need for any cheap shots we're all adults here
    Ok ok Mynd Im sorry I just havent had a laugh on this forum in so long going by my post count i rarely do post things but when I do I usually have good intentions.

    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Well I guess we can all only hope the MS does not cut their prices next gen, then no one will get upset.

    I guess?
    Ehhh MS in my opinion created a situation where if anything needs to sell there must be a price cut while people still go out and but $600 sell phones and tablets. Even nintendo couldnt sell the new DS till it got a price cut.
    Last edited by hood; 05-19-2013 at 03:39.
    "I think all those developers who are saying, "We donít want to do a PS3 game," or "Itís really difficult to do it," should shut up and make their games. If you have time to complain about it, then you should be spending your time working on getting the most from the hardware."

  5. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by hood View Post
    Ok ok Mynd Im sorry I just havent had a laugh on this forum in so long going by my post count i rarely do post things but when I do I usually have good intentions.
    I just don't see how competition is a BAD thing.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

  6. #181
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    Oh yea topic, we were talking about why Mynd thinks Gears of War: Judgement was worth the green light. I guess he's too busy atm to answer this question

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    I just don't see how competition is a BAD thing.
    Ok final words here lowering your prices just to sell isnt competitive. What would be competitive is selling at your projected price and having the competition up the ante. For example providing more value through services or larger quantities. MS came out with a 20gb junk box didnt even have wifi or hdmi and it sold very well Sony came out with a highend product which they eventually had to downgrade and reconfigure in order to maintain competitive. So with you logic you believe that having one competitor consistanly lower its standards just to sell a product is good. Did microsoft turn into Walmart over the past 8 yrs? Competition between to rivals should make each of the stronger not bring them to the lowest common factor.
    "I think all those developers who are saying, "We donít want to do a PS3 game," or "Itís really difficult to do it," should shut up and make their games. If you have time to complain about it, then you should be spending your time working on getting the most from the hardware."

  8. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Oh yea topic, we were talking about why Mynd thinks Gears of War: Judgement was worth the green light. I guess he's too busy atm to answer this question
    Umm, it sold over a million units?
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

  9. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Umm, it sold over a million units?
    LBP2 almost sold 3 mil. Resistance 3 is over a mil too. MS: Apocalypse is the only one that did less than 1 mil. You specifically said Sony shouldn't have green lit all of them lol based on reviews and sales.

    Why the change of heart when it's MS camp? Oh that's right, I caught you with your pants down

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  11. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    LBP2 almost sold 3 mil. Resistance 3 is over a mil too. MS: Apocalypse is the only one that did less than 1 mil. You specifically said Sony shouldn't have green lit all of them lol based on reviews and sales.

    Why the change of heart when it's MS camp? Oh that's right, I caught you with your pants down
    Yup I did, and it was based on the previous games sales.
    Not tie in's freebies and giveaways, just plain old sales after 10 weeks on the market sales.

    I don't question Judgement, I would question another 360 Gears however.
    Last edited by mynd; 05-19-2013 at 06:49.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

  12. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Yup I did, and it was based on the previous games sales.
    Not tie in's freebies and giveaways, just plain old sales after 10 weeks on the market sales.

    I don't question Judgement, I would question another 360 Gears however.
    Come on bro lol, not all those sales are likely freebies or giveaways.

    Either way, a couple of those games have way better scores than Judgement and one of them won a bunch of awards too.

    Let's stop drinking that kool aid homie

  13. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Come on bro lol, not all those sales are likely freebies or giveaways.

    Either way, a couple of those games have way better scores than Judgement and one of them won a bunch of awards too.

    Let's stop drinking that kool aid homie
    You cant green light a project based on expected score? And generally it comes down to how well its previous game sold.




    Gears 3 first months sales -over 2M units sold-through NPD.
    Last edited by mynd; 05-19-2013 at 07:27.
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  14. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    You cant green light a project based on expected score? And generally it comes down to how well its previous game sold.




    Gears 3 first months sales -over 2M units sold-through NPD.
    lol dude you make up your own rules as you go along. Uncharted 1 didn't have as good sales as Uncharted 2, it's not always the case. You don't always look at the previous sales and decide from there, what limited thinking!

    You must be one of the same people that argued with me that this generation wasn't going to last longer than 5-6 years.

    You're hilarious sir. Keep it up.

    Let me laugh out loud once more:

    LBP2 - PS3 exclusive, wins awards, has 91% metacritic. User score 8.3. Did not play it.

    "Sony should not have green lit the game." "But...but...but it's teh freebies!"

    Gears of War: Judgement - 360 exclusive, doesn't win any awards, 79% metacritic. User score 5.4. Did play it.

    "MP is fun as hell"
    "Umm, it sold over a million units?"
    "I don't question Judgement"

    Logic fail

    This forum wouldn't be fun without you
    Last edited by Omar; 05-19-2013 at 08:14. Reason: user score

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  16. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    lol dude you make up your own rules as you go along. Uncharted 1 didn't have as good sales as Uncharted 2, it's not always the case. You don't always look at the previous sales and decide from there, what limited thinking!

    You must be one of the same people that argued with me that this generation wasn't going to last longer than 5-6 years.

    You're hilarious sir. Keep it up.

    Let me laugh out loud once more:

    LBP2 - PS3 exclusive, wins awards, has 91% metacritic. User score 8.3. Did not play it.

    "Sony should not have green lit the game." "But...but...but it's teh freebies!"
    Critical darling and it sold...crap.


    Gears of War: Judgement - 360 exclusive, doesn't win any awards, 79% metacritic. User score 5.4. Did play it.

    "MP is fun as hell"
    "Umm, it sold over a million units?"
    "I don't question Judgement"

    Logic fail

    This forum wouldn't be fun without you
    I'm not sure what your getting at? I assumed we are talking about the decision to make these sequels?
    In which case what they score is irrelevant isnt?
    I thought we were discussing the decision to make these sequels?

    So my question is to you, HOw did you know judgement would score 79% and less than Gears 3

    Based on previous games, again Gears 3 averaged 90%+ and sold millions.

    Why the hell wouldn't you do another.

    Good sales+Good critical score=Green light the sequal.

    Bad sales+Good critical score=may (or may not) warrant a sequel (I still think LBP2 was always going to sell poorly).

    Bad sales & medicore score,= Why would you make another?


    So I ask you seeing as Gears:Judgement firmly ended up in the last lot as did Resistance 2
    Why would you make yet another Gears game for the 360?

    Or are you asking why I bought it?
    I didn't buy gears 3, i borrowed from my brother in law, and i made a deal with him that it was my turn to buy the next one.
    I own gears 2, and judgement.
    Last edited by mynd; 05-19-2013 at 10:29.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

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  18. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Critical darling and it sold...crap.
    not sure what you mean here. what sold crap? LBP2? On what basis?

    I'm not sure what your getting at? I assumed we are talking about the decision to make these sequels?
    In which case what they score is irrelevant isnt?
    I thought we were discussing the decision to make these sequels?

    So my question is to you, HOw did you know judgement would score 79% and less than Gears 3

    Based on previous games, again Gears 3 averaged 90%+ and sold millions.

    Why the hell wouldn't you do another.
    The reason why anyone ever does anything? You go by your confidence and what you think you want to achieve. I definitely think they did a much better job than Resistance 2 in the 3rd one. I played the beta and also have seen some SP videos, they look great to me...better than some of SP games out there.

    Again, you're not a businessman, that's not how business works. You CAN make a better product even if your previous one was $#@!. This happens ALL THE TIME in the business world, I'm not even sure why I'm arguing with you when you don't know crap about it lol.

    LBP2 was way better than LBP, they added so many more things and just made everything better. Other than your "teh freebies" argument, which is absurd like it wasn't going ot sell without it lol (when I clearly showed you how well it was received, not to mention tons of awards/nominates including best PS3 game of 2011!!!).

    $#@! the first LBP sold like 5 million! 95% frigging metacritic! And it won a ton of awards for being so damn unique. One of the most unique games this entire generation!

    Seriously bro? Like I said, I caught you with your pants down and there's nothing else to it. You keep digging yourself in a bigger hole

    Good sales+Good critical score=Green light the sequal.

    Bad sales+Good critical score=may (or may not) warrant a sequel (I still think LBP2 was always going to sell poorly).

    Bad sales & medicore score,= Why would you make another?

    So I ask you seeing as Gears:Judgement firmly ended up in the last lot as did Resistance 2
    Why would you make yet another Gears game for the 360?
    Umm, that makes no sense because even if we go by your somewhat broken logic (as your logic implies that ND should have never green-lit UC2), Resistance 2 had more than decent reviews and it sold almost 2 1/2 million. That's decent enough to warrant another sequel, not?

    Are we from the same planet? They made tons of improvement in Resistance 3.

    Or are you asking why I bought it?
    I didn't buy gears 3, i borrowed from my brother in law, and i made a deal with him that it was my turn to buy the next one.
    I own gears 2, and judgement.
    Yeah I don't care why you bought it, I'm asking you why you have double-standards when it comes to the PS3 as it is clear here. You had to buy it, sure, but you still support it, even though it's $#@!ty (according to you sir)

    EDIT: Obviously substance would agree with you. you guys are all from the same delusional camp lol.
    Last edited by Omar; 05-19-2013 at 20:24.

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  20. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    not sure what you mean here. what sold crap? LBP2? On what basis?
    353,000
    I don't blame the game, its a combination , Sony could always do more to help its titles and pushing it, releasing in January post Xmas is a typical Sony thing to do.
    But lets make no bones about it, a sequal to a game that sold 5 million should do better than that eh?
    The reason why anyone ever does anything? You go by your confidence and what you think you want to achieve. I definitely think they did a much better job than Resistance 2 in the 3rd one. I played the beta and also have seen some SP videos, they look great to me...better than some of SP games out there.
    Sure, in an ideal world, we all would like to see games being sold on their own merits, and not on profitailty, but at the end of the day a couple of things dont add up with Resistance 3.

    1/ It scored above average results with 87%, solid, not spectacular, but good enough
    2/ The story ended in 2.
    3/ It sold bollocks bad. (I will get to claims of sales in a minute).
    Again, you're not a businessman, that's not how business works. You CAN make a better product even if your previous one was $#@!. This happens ALL THE TIME in the business world, I'm not even sure why I'm arguing with you when you don't know crap about it lol.
    Publishing is awfully cruel in the gaming world, I've had first hand experience of it, so not sure why you would think I don't know anything about it. I'm pretty sure only one of us has signed NDA's with a video game publisher.
    LBP2 was way better than LBP, they added so many more things and just made everything better. Other than your "teh freebies" argument, which is absurd like it wasn't going ot sell without it lol (when I clearly showed you how well it was received, not to mention tons of awards/nominates including best PS3 game of 2011!!!).
    I don't have an issue with the green lighting of LBP2, never have.
    What I do have an issue with is the argument that it is anything but a niche product in the market.
    Again, we will get to that in a moment.
    $#@! the first LBP sold like 5 million! 95% frigging metacritic! And it won a ton of awards for being so damn unique. One of the most unique games this entire generation!
    Now that's more like it 5 million sold! What a claim.
    Where's your proof. Because we have been through this before.
    Because what I see is a game that sold 600k.
    Furthermore it went on and garnered "Gold" from ELSPA in the uK (thats 200k).
    That's about 800k in sales.
    We can safely double that for EU+JP, which would give us a figure of maybe 1.6 million units for the game.

    Where did you get 5 million from, the only mention I cant find is a gamespot article that says 3 million in May 2010, and even that has no source.

    Again, Resistance 2, figures in Wikipedia, are made up. There seems to be a concerted effort to fudge sales figures for these games. But I'm all for official statements and proof.

    I just cant find any to back these statements up, nor can I show these games proved popular at launch.

    Seriously bro? Like I said, I caught you with your pants down and there's nothing else to it. You keep digging yourself in a bigger hole
    How have you caught me with my pants down?
    I'm still not even sure what you think is wrong with green lighting Gears:Judgement?
    Umm, that makes no sense because even if we go by your somewhat broken logic (as your logic implies that ND should have never green-lit UC2), Resistance 2 had more than decent reviews and it sold almost 2 1/2 million. That's decent enough to warrant another sequel, not?
    There is nothing wrong with green lighting a 2nd project based on potential (which is you argument).
    And I have never said Uncharted 2 or LBP 2 shouldn't have been made.
    What I did say about LBP2 was, it was never ever going to be a mainstream game, and garner fantastic sales.
    If that was Sony's intention, I doubt it looking at the January launch.
    It certainly was the fans intention however.
    Are we from the same planet? They made tons of improvement in Resistance 3.
    It doesn't matter, the game could have been the best game ever, but it was too late for the franchise, it was never going to be huge, if you cant break into that sphere by the time you make the third game, then you aren't simply going to. 180k in NPD alone tells us that.
    Yeah I don't care why you bought it, I'm asking you why you have double-standards when it comes to the PS3 as it is clear here. You had to buy it, sure, but you still support it, even though it's $#@!ty (according to you sir)
    I never said Judgement is $#@!ty? I said I've only played MP so far. And that's actually better than Gears 3, it has better button mapping that speeds up the game.
    But again, Im unsure why you've caught me in a double standard.
    Because I bought Judgement?

    EDIT: Obviously substance would agree with you. you guys are all from the same delusional camp lol.
    Last edited by mynd; 05-19-2013 at 22:16.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

  21. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    353,000
    I don't blame the game, its a combination , Sony could always do more to help its titles and pushing it, releasing in January post Xmas is a typical Sony thing to do.
    But lets make no bones about it, a sequal to a game that sold 5 million should do better than that eh?
    Where are you getting that number from? Give me the context.

    Secondly, for the sake of the argument, according to you, everyone should go by how their previous installment was received...since they wouldn't know how it would sell, so what is your excuse now?

    Really, you're damned you do, you're damned you don't in either cases for Sony when it comes to you lol. It's really funny!
    Sure, in an ideal world, we all would like to see games being sold on their own merits, and not on profitailty, but at the end of the day a couple of things dont add up with Resistance 3.

    1/ It scored above average results with 87%, solid, not spectacular, but good enough
    2/ The story ended in 2.
    3/ It sold bollocks bad. (I will get to claims of sales in a minute).
    I'm sorry 87% is solid AND great, not "good enough" lol way to downplay every chance you get!

    It sold bad but it was a good game. I still need to play the whole thing but I enjoyed the beta.

    Publishing is awfully cruel in the gaming world, I've had first hand experience of it, so not sure why you would think I don't know anything about it. I'm pretty sure only one of us has signed NDA's with a video game publisher.
    Why? Did you look at your comments? If people were limited like you, we wouldn't have successes out there. Everyone would be too cautious to put anything out.

    I mean, how the heck would you define someone even trying to make a new IP!? There's no Goddamn previous installment! How does that work! LOL

    No, I don't care what observational publishing experience you have, although I'd love to see what you've published out there lol that has sold more than a buck. But please, don't give us the appearance that you know anything about business. Not with that negative and limited mindset.

    I don't have an issue with the green lighting of LBP2, never have.
    What I do have an issue with is the argument that it is anything but a niche product in the market.
    Again, we will get to that in a moment.
    So now you don't have a problem with LBP2 being released...ok so end of argument? As I've never argued that it's a product for everyone, that has never entered into the argument. Of course it's niche because it's unique.

    Now that's more like it 5 million sold! What a claim.
    Where's your proof. Because we have been through this before.
    Because what I see is a game that sold 600k.
    Furthermore it went on and garnered "Gold" from ELSPA in the uK (thats 200k).
    That's about 800k in sales.
    We can safely double that for EU+JP, which would give us a figure of maybe 1.6 million units for the game.

    Where did you get 5 million from, the only mention I cant find is a gamespot article that says 3 million in May 2010, and even that has no source.

    Again, Resistance 2, figures in Wikipedia, are made up. There seems to be a concerted effort to fudge sales figures for these games. But I'm all for official statements and proof.

    I just cant find any to back these statements up, nor can I show these games proved popular at launch.
    "SCEE President Andrew House announced at Gamescom 2010 that the game has now sold over 4.5 million worldwide." -Wiki

    Really dude? You're going to argue about this now? Now I have to deal with a conspiracy theorist? Wow the fun never ends huh.

    How have you caught me with my pants down?
    So I wasted all that time with my previous posts? I'm aligning you now with Sub...almost officially, don't force me to do that. You are clearly showing double standards as Judgement doesn't pass in sales, nor reviews. However, like you said, Gears 3 does but then again so does LBP and Resistance 2 so why support it on the MS side and not the Sony side? I support on both sides. More games have never been an issue with anyone, regardless of their quality.

    I'm still not even sure what you think is wrong with green lighting Gears:Judgement?
    I don't think anything is wrong with green-lighting Judgement, it's your own perception that a game should only be green-lit if the previous one did well, thus why you argued about 4 of Sony's exclusive should not have been green-lit.

    I say the more the merrier, if everyone relied on AAA games, this market would crash, but of course you wouldn't know that and I wouldn't expect you to know.

    There is nothing wrong with green lighting a 2nd project based on potential (which is you argument).
    And I have never said Uncharted 2 or LBP 2 shouldn't have been made.
    What I did say about LBP2 was, it was never ever going to be a mainstream game, and garner fantastic sales.
    If that was Sony's intention, I doubt it looking at the January launch.
    It certainly was the fans intention however.
    No, I said that you can release it based on expectations and you can also look at how well it was received, there are tons of factors that would go into it and I would spent pages of it trying to define the general ones. The point is, it's not so simple as to say that a game should not have released based on previous reception. That's too simple.

    Everyone wants to sell their games to a bunch of people out there but Sony knows they're not competing with COD here. I don't know where you get the notion that they were expecting more than 3-5m sales. And how are those sales not fantastic?

    Again, with the double-standards. Don't you think that's what MS wanted with Judgement? They probably were expecting it to sell boatloads. It's a Gears game right! The flagship title! Yet you have no criticism there. Interesting.

    It doesn't matter, the game could have been the best game ever, but it was too late for the franchise, it was never going to be huge, if you cant break into that sphere by the time you make the third game, then you aren't simply going to. 180k in NPD alone tells us that.
    Again, Too late for Gears too, isn't it? I mean, FFS Epic didn't even exclusively made it. They had help from another developer that usually worked on the PC version. That alone there should be an indicator. And yet, it's all peachy for you. No criticism in the MS camp.

    P.S. If it was the greatest game ever...umm, yes it would matter. why even exaggerate there lol. Really if a game is awesome, it doesn't matter if it's like the 10th installment. GT says hi.

    I never said Judgement is $#@!ty? I said I've only played MP so far. And that's actually better than Gears 3, it has better button mapping that speeds up the game.
    But again, Im unsure why you've caught me in a double standard.
    Because I bought Judgement?
    Not because you bought Judgement, because you think it's fine for MS to do something (especially when it's a worse scenario) and then turn around and bash Sony for it (when theirs is a much better scenario!).

    I meant $#@!ty as in, according to you, a game with crap reviews and sales should not have gotten green lit. Yes, my argument has always been, "But how would you know that it was going to sell crap and get crap reviews?" Especially when the previous one had good reviews and good sales and they are trying to improve in every way possible.

    Exactly my thoughts too. I just realized you argued about that earlier so you were basically proving yourself wrong lol.

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    Haha @ this discussion. Sufi, I'm sure there are MUCH more productive ways to spend your time! You have played these games...you didn't just look at metacritic scores and youtube videos, you PLAYED them. It gives you a unique perspective that unfortunately isn't held by everyone here, so the discussion won't really go anywhere.

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    Ahhh, you know what, even someone so awesome like myself needs an advice sometimes, true story

    My apologies to anyone who had to look at that wall of text

    Good discussion regardless. But it should've been over a long time ago, I agree.

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  26. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost-Rhayne View Post
    Haha @ this discussion. Sufi, I'm sure there are MUCH more productive ways to spend your time! You have played these games...you didn't just look at metacritic scores and youtube videos, you PLAYED them. It gives you a unique perspective that unfortunately isn't held by everyone here, so the discussion won't really go anywhere.
    Well tbh both parties in this debate were bashing games that they haven't played. For example I doubt Sufi has actually played Gears Judgement yet he called it crappy in one of his posts. Neither him or mynd are innocent in that regard. Just sayin.' Truth of the matter is lots of good games did poorly in sales but they were still good games imo. Motorstorm Apocolypse and Forza Horizon come to mind. GoW Ascension and Gears Judgement were also good games imo but both sold less than the last ones. This crap is all so subjective anyway. I do admire Sony's willingness to greenlight new ips though instead of playing it safe like MS. I really like that about them. EDIT- Sufi explained what he meant so I stand corrected on that part.
    Last edited by mistercrow; 05-20-2013 at 05:51.

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    Quote Originally Posted by radgamer420 View Post
    Well tbh both parties in this debate were bashing games that they haven't played. For example I doubt Sufi has actually played Gears Judgement yet he called it crappy in one of his posts. Neither him or mynd are innocent in that regard. Just sayin.' Truth of the matter is lots of good games did poorly in sales but they were still good games imo. Motorstorm Apocolypse and Forza Horizon come to mind. GoW Ascension and Gears Judgement were also good games imo but both sold less than the last ones. This crap is all so subjective anyway.
    No no I wouldn't call any game crappy unless I played it. To give a little history of it, I was saying that because Mynd had implied that a game with ok reviews and ok sales were crappy. He never said it but I didn't wanna say "not worth green-lighting" every time I brought it up.

    I welcome games of all ratings and sales.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    No no I wouldn't call any game crappy unless I played it. To give a little history of it, I was saying that because Mynd had implied that a game with ok reviews and ok sales were crappy. He never said it but I didn't wanna say "not worth green-lighting" every time I brought it up. I welcome games of all ratings and sales.
    Oh ok I gotcha. Sorry I misunderstood you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    No no I wouldn't call any game crappy unless I played it. To give a little history of it, I was saying that because Mynd had implied that a game with ok reviews and ok sales were crappy. He never said it but I didn't wanna say "not worth green-lighting" every time I brought it up.

    I welcome games of all ratings and sales.
    Sorry, Ive been flat tack all day, but I'll try and make my point as simple as possible.

    Your only as good as you last game.
    Now does that mean Gears Judgement deserved a chance...yes it did, you've just sold about 8 million copies of Gears 3, I think its worth cashing in on .

    I cant apply that same logic regardless of the quality of the game, to Resistance 3.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

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    I think PS4 is the only console that can beat PS3. Only Sony can beat sony and nothing else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moultonaandy View Post
    I think PS4 is the only console that can beat PS3. Only Sony can beat sony and nothing else.
    That's not even accurate.

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