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  1. #1
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    from GAF..... Durango ships with an Xbox 360 SOC.

    got to luv a rumor...

    Cheesemeister wrote:
    An allegedly anonymous insider source has posted a manifesto of sorts describing some of the details on Durango.

    As I cannot confirm the veracity of these claims, take it with a pinch of salt.

    In short: no always-online connection required to play, no HMD glasses yet, VGLeaks specs true, Xbox 360 system on a chip for BC and parallel processing.
    As for myself, I'll believe it when I see it.

    http://pastebin.com/avbwJc17



    Quote:
    So yes, I originally made a post on pastebin that I then posted on IGN that has now mysteriously vanished from the internet. I'm guessing good 'ol Don wasn't too happy.

    In that pastebin post I said I wouldn't be saying anything else, but that was before a few things changed. So yeah.... #dealwithit.

    That IGN post (that referenced the pastebin post) was also posted on NeoGAF. Though it didn't get much attention.

    In that pastebin post I specifically mentioned that I was a GAF member, but that I would not be outing myself on GAF for fear of losing my job. And I still will not be doing that. I'm not an idiot.
    However since the reveal is pretty close now, I thought I'd just come out and tell you everything I know. No more cryptic bull$#@!, just facts.

    First of all, for any of the GAF members reading this (or anyone else for that matter) that actually believed the online-required rumor, well.... you're either stupid, very gullible, or a fanboy. Reading the posts some of you made over the past few weeks leads me to believe that mostly fanboyism was involved. So, I'll make this very clear:

    You are not required to be connected to the internet in order to play Durango games and MS were NEVER considering doing such a thing. Now please, just read that last sentence over and over again until it sinks in. Done? Good.


    Now that I've got that out of the way I can talk about the real details.
    First, I'll admit some things that I originally hinted at in the first pastebin are now not going to happen. Mainly the April 18th date (obviously) and the HMD glasses. The date, as you may know by now was pushed back to May, and the glasses, well, although they’re kind of working are going to spend a bit longer in the oven.

    Ok, moving on. Have you read the VGLeaks article about the Durango specs? Yes? Good because everything you read in that article was 100% correct. Except, for one tiny little detail that MS kept guarded from most devs until very recently. That detail being that every Durango ships with a Xbox 360 SOC.

    There was a reason why MS hired so many former IBM and AMD employees. I'll admit I'm not an electrical engineer (I'm in software) so I won't pretend to know the ins and outs of how the 360 SOC integrates into the Durango motherboard. All I know, and all I need to know about this new change is that I (or a game dev) can use the 360 SOC in parallel with the original Durango hardware.

    What does this mean in basic terms? Well, apart from Durango having 100% BC with the 360, it also increases Durango's processing power a fair amount.

    Ok, so what else?

    Kinect 2.0: - Again the specs from VGLeaks are correct, there's been no change and there won't be. However, the fact is, is that software can do ANYTHING, and with the quite substantial increase in the hardware over Kinect 1.0, any humanly noticeable lag should be gone

    Controller: - The controller is pretty much the same. The D-Pad has been improved, but the change will only be noticeable when actually using it, i.e. it looks exactly the same, I haven't actually touched it, this is just what I’ve been told. AA batteries will make a return, but the new wireless tech MS has created for the controller, improves battery life by 16%. Again, this is just what the doc says.

    Xbox Mini/Xbox TV: Yes, this is happening, although as far as I know, it’s a whole different team over at MS that are handling this. As has been reported its main purpose is to compete with Apple TV, so expect this thing to be small and around $100.
    It contains the 360 SOC (similar to the one in the Durango), however no disc drive is included (to decrease size). But of course you can still play any XBLA/Games on Demand game. That’s all I really know about the xTV so I’ll leave it at that. Thurrott seems to know more than anyone else about this, so go ask him.

    OS/Services: I wish I knew more about this, but I honestly don’t. I have no clue what sort of new ideas MS are going to bring to the table this gen, but I’m certainly expecting them to amaze.
    The only thing that I do know for definite is that Durango will be running Windows 8. It will essentially be the full version of the OS, minus the desktop side of things. This means it’ll be running the new WinRT framework, which as a side effect also means that contrary to popular belief MS will be the most indie friendly of all the big 3 next gen.
    This is because any app/game that is created for the Windows app store will (after adding controller support of course) be playable on Durango.
    In other words, any random person worldwide can pay Microsoft a $60 license fee (for the Windows Store) and submit their app/game to the store where millions of people can then download/buy it. No expensive development kits needed.
    Expect to hear much more on WinRT - Durango at Build2013.

    Ok, so that’s pretty much it. I wish I had more info on specific games and services that MS have lined up, but it seems that even I’ll have to wait until May to find out.
    I’ll look forward to this post appearing on GAF, where rest assured I’ll be lurking. Hell, who knows I may even make a few posts.

    I wonder how many people will refuse to believe this? Hmmmm….
    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=541176

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    RUMOR: Durango details discussed by anonymous source

    Got this from Gaf!

    An allegedly anonymous insider source has posted a manifesto of sorts describing some of the details on Durango.

    As I cannot confirm the veracity of these claims, take it with a pinch of salt.

    In short: no always-online connection required to play, no HMD glasses yet, VGLeaks specs true, Xbox 360 system on a chip for BC and parallel processing.

    As for myself, I'll believe it when I see it.




    So yes, I originally made a post on pastebin that I then posted on IGN that has now mysteriously vanished from the internet. I'm guessing good 'ol Don wasn't too happy.

    In that pastebin post I said I wouldn't be saying anything else, but that was before a few things changed. So yeah.... #dealwithit.

    That IGN post (that referenced the pastebin post) was also posted on NeoGAF. Though it didn't get much attention.

    In that pastebin post I specifically mentioned that I was a GAF member, but that I would not be outing myself on GAF for fear of losing my job. And I still will not be doing that. I'm not an idiot.
    However since the reveal is pretty close now, I thought I'd just come out and tell you everything I know. No more cryptic bull$#@!, just facts.

    First of all, for any of the GAF members reading this (or anyone else for that matter) that actually believed the online-required rumor, well.... you're either stupid, very gullible, or a fanboy. Reading the posts some of you made over the past few weeks leads me to believe that mostly fanboyism was involved. So, I'll make this very clear:

    You are not required to be connected to the internet in order to play Durango games and MS were NEVER considering doing such a thing. Now please, just read that last sentence over and over again until it sinks in. Done? Good.


    Now that I've got that out of the way I can talk about the real details.
    First, I'll admit some things that I originally hinted at in the first pastebin are now not going to happen. Mainly the April 18th date (obviously) and the HMD glasses. The date, as you may know by now was pushed back to May, and the glasses, well, although theyíre kind of working are going to spend a bit longer in the oven.

    Ok, moving on. Have you read the VGLeaks article about the Durango specs? Yes? Good because everything you read in that article was 100% correct. Except, for one tiny little detail that MS kept guarded from most devs until very recently. That detail being that every Durango ships with a Xbox 360 SOC.

    There was a reason why MS hired so many former IBM and AMD employees. I'll admit I'm not an electrical engineer (I'm in software) so I won't pretend to know the ins and outs of how the 360 SOC integrates into the Durango motherboard. All I know, and all I need to know about this new change is that I (or a game dev) can use the 360 SOC in parallel with the original Durango hardware.

    What does this mean in basic terms? Well, apart from Durango having 100% BC with the 360, it also increases Durango's processing power a fair amount.

    Ok, so what else?

    Kinect 2.0: - Again the specs from VGLeaks are correct, there's been no change and there won't be. However, the fact is, is that software can do ANYTHING, and with the quite substantial increase in the hardware over Kinect 1.0, any humanly noticeable lag should be gone

    Controller: - The controller is pretty much the same. The D-Pad has been improved, but the change will only be noticeable when actually using it, i.e. it looks exactly the same, I haven't actually touched it, this is just what Iíve been told. AA batteries will make a return, but the new wireless tech MS has created for the controller, improves battery life by 16%. Again, this is just what the doc says.

    Xbox Mini/Xbox TV: Yes, this is happening, although as far as I know, itís a whole different team over at MS that are handling this. As has been reported its main purpose is to compete with Apple TV, so expect this thing to be small and around $100.
    It contains the 360 SOC (similar to the one in the Durango), however no disc drive is included (to decrease size). But of course you can still play any XBLA/Games on Demand game. Thatís all I really know about the xTV so Iíll leave it at that. Thurrott seems to know more than anyone else about this, so go ask him.

    OS/Services: I wish I knew more about this, but I honestly donít. I have no clue what sort of new ideas MS are going to bring to the table this gen, but Iím certainly expecting them to amaze.
    The only thing that I do know for definite is that Durango will be running Windows 8. It will essentially be the full version of the OS, minus the desktop side of things. This means itíll be running the new WinRT framework, which as a side effect also means that contrary to popular belief MS will be the most indie friendly of all the big 3 next gen.
    This is because any app/game that is created for the Windows app store will (after adding controller support of course) be playable on Durango.
    In other words, any random person worldwide can pay Microsoft a $60 license fee (for the Windows Store) and submit their app/game to the store where millions of people can then download/buy it. No expensive development kits needed.
    Expect to hear much more on WinRT - Durango at Build2013.

    Ok, so thatís pretty much it. I wish I had more info on specific games and services that MS have lined up, but it seems that even Iíll have to wait until May to find out.
    Iíll look forward to this post appearing on GAF, where rest assured Iíll be lurking. Hell, who knows I may even make a few posts.

    I wonder how many people will refuse to believe this? HmmmmÖ.

    http://pastebin.com/avbwJc17
    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?"
    --Kaz Hirai, CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment

  3. #3
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    I'd be happy if rumours were banned

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaw3d Genius View Post
    I'd be happy if rumours were banned
    lol...yea but if those rumors are true next xbox is gonna be really good.

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    This goes in line with what I posted the other day that everybody laughed and shrugs off. A lot of people are going to be eating crow pretty soon!
    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?"
    --Kaz Hirai, CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment

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    this is funny.


  7. #7
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    looks like this latest Nextbox rumour has brought GAF to a grinding halt....

  8. #8
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    Price tag will be raised with BC I'm sure. I would rather a cheaper console than have BC.




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    This is great to hear. All they need to do now is just make sure there are plenty of games that I can't get elsewhere and I'm in.
    I don't need no stinkin' signature!

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    Kind of hard for me to believe that MS would make a SOC out of the 360, would be awesome if true, but seeing as how the standalone Mini would cost $100, I don't think MS would want to add too much more price to the Durango than necessary, unless the computational power gain is really that significant of course. I wonder how the Power PC and x86 architectures will mesh in real terms, quite intriguing indeed. I, too, will believe it when I see it, but hopefully this adds up to an all-around better next gen.
    I wonder what sort of overhead Win8 would need on Durango, I'm guessing they'll use Kinect for the touch gestures, would be cool if done right (which I hope it is).

  11. #11
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    Would be cool if they could pull this off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flaw3d Genius View Post
    I'd be happy if rumours were banned
    True.

    Let's hope negative PS4/Sony rumours are banned too.
    I am the oncoming storm.



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    It all sounds much better than all that doom and gloom stuff for sure. I like the sounds of the licensing thing. Will be great for amateur devs to get their products out there if there isn't a bunch of red tape to publishing. Hopefully this guy turns out to be right. This all sounds pretty good. I'm just skeptical about the price with the addition of BC. If they offer it at around the same price as PS4 that would be huge. All just remains to be seen. I'm so ready for both camps to have all the info out there, full tech revealed, and price and release dates confirmed. Then we can seriously start looking forward to next gen.




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    Quote Originally Posted by ps3freak18 View Post
    Price tag will be raised with BC I'm sure. I would rather a cheaper console than have BC.
    I agree. If this is true get ready for an expensive console.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Man Gamer View Post
    This is great to hear. All they need to do now is just make sure there are plenty of games that I can't get elsewhere and I'm in.
    Well with rumors of yet another Forza as a launch game I'm not too confident that new fresh IPs are what MS have in mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by radgamer420 View Post
    Well with rumors of yet another Forza as a launch game I'm not too confident that new fresh IPs are what MS have in mind.
    If all this turns up true great. Just ready to see if they are planning to go the route of providing with a wide range of first party genres.




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    Rumors from an anonymous source. Must be true. lol As for requiring internet to play SP games I dont believe that at all. No way MS would commit console suicide like that especially since Sony isnt doing it.
    Last edited by mistercrow; 04-17-2013 at 00:25.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ps3freak18 View Post
    If all this turns up true great. Just ready to see if they are planning to go the route of providing with a wide range of first party genres.
    I love Forza believe me. Just ask mynd how much I played Forza 4. lol But I just hope MS rolls out something fresh and dont pull the plug on it just because it doesn't sell 4 or 5 million copies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by radgamer420 View Post
    I love Forza believe me. Just ask mynd how much I played Forza 4. lol But I just hope MS rolls out something fresh and dont pull the plug on it just because it doesn't sell 4 or 5 million copies.
    If they do make a new Forza, I want a sequel closer to Horizon. Or at the very least make two games like they did this gen.
    I am the oncoming storm.



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    rOt : "Breakthrough??? The chipset is 8 years old and started out as a 90nm part. It's on a SoC I have this confirmed as a fact."

    DeadMeat: "It's hard to reduce power consumption in a deeply pipelined processor. Xbox 360 CPU had the longest pipeline in history, approaching 40 stages. Microsoft had to cut this down to 13~15 pipes to reduce power consumption in order for the SOC to fit into a Roku like box, meaning it is basically a new CPU sharing instruction set, not a die shrunk version of old CPU"

    DeadMeat: "Doing a quick search, the PowerPC A2 has a 15-stage pipeline, so this is a perfect candidate for the new Xbox 360's CPU. "


    Maybe a PowerPC A2 is still possible in the next XBox Mini(TV)
    Also read this and you would understand the Dual APU situation a lot better!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Rigby

    The post is reasonable and in line with what is being speculated for the PS4 also, there are two SoCs (depending on how you define SoC) in EVERYTHING PS4, Xbox 720, 32nm Xbox360/ARM and likely a 22nm PS3/ARM. The second ARM SoC takes care of low power STB features and provides Trustzone kernel booting and DRM tools for encrypting/decrypting. The compute ability in the ARM SoC is on the order of .5 CUs so adding that to the Speculated Durango 12 or PS4 18 CUs will have a marginal impact on playing games. It's more useful in providing UI and background tasks while the main GPU is running the game.

    ARM Trustzone can provide a standard for DRM that looks like is required by Cable companies before they will "trust" Game Consoles to be secure to offer Pay-per-view and VOD services. After June 2014 (FCC rule) all TVs in the US will need to either be Smart TVs or be connected to a set top box to receive, via the home network and RVU (DLNA + encryption), Cable TV from a cable gateway device. PS4, Xbox720 Xbox360/ARM and likely PS3/ARM can provide this feature. RVU will allow 1080P & S3D to be displayed on 1080P TVs, provided they support S3D. Currently the TV tuner in 1080P TVs can't handle h.264 and the max resolution is 1080i unless you have a blu-ray player. XTV is coming also.

    The diskless Xbox 360/ARM STB (Set Top Box) competes with Apple TV as a STB and can download Xbox 360 and Win8 RT games to a small internal flash or run games from the Durango Drive, likely both Blu-ray/DVD and Hard disk, over the network from a different room. Durango can also play Gakai like, Xbox 360 games served from the Xbox360/ARM. In this case the ARM SoC is converting frame buffer video to h.264 and streaming to the Durango.

    Both Sony and Microsoft will be supporting RVU. A diskless PS3/ARM and Xbox 360/ARM will likely be able to control and display Video from a Blu-ray player in another room; this should also be true for a Sony Smart TV with ARM Trustzone or some ROT (Root Of Trust) that is considered secure (Video coming from the blu-ray player would have to be encrypted and unencrypted in the platform playing the video.

    microsoft-sony.com might mean that Microsoft and Sony have agreed on a standard for secure sharing resources on the home network and have agreed to lowering the walls in their respective ecosystem walled gardens.

    Quote:
    The “Xbox Mini” is not a 360 add-on, it is a stand alone product that contains Xbox 360 functions for gaming, and alone it is meant to compete with Apple TV. Since it is likely it will not have a disc drive, it is being designed with “always online” in mind, and with internet being required for Live functions. Xbox 360 Games can be played on it by purchasing Games on Demand on Xbox Live (for new purchases) or if already purchased, simply download it. This also applies to music and movies. To further clarify, the Durango will also have these (TV) functions, just with next-genration gaming hardware instead of Xbox 360 at a higher price.
    Both have low power STB TV functions (ARM SoC) married to Xbox 360 SoC or AMD APU (SoC).
    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?"
    --Kaz Hirai, CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment

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    Quote Originally Posted by admartian View Post
    If they do make a new Forza, I want a sequel closer to Horizon. Or at the very least make two games like they did this gen.
    Yeah Horizon is an awesome game. Surprisingly it didnt even chart in the NPD. Propably due to COD and Halo 4. I would like to see that series continue despite not doing that well. Its a brilliant game.

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    smells of ass pulls and trolling those desperate for information. It's been like that since the 720 lost the upperhand.

    Anyways, only a month or so left.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Two4DaMoney View Post
    smells of ass pulls and trolling those desperate for information. It's been like that since the 720 lost the upperhand. Anyways, only a month or so left.
    Yeah it seems like that to me too tbh. Sony already sold me with their PS4 presentation but I'm still curious to see whats true and what isnt with the Durango.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Two4DaMoney View Post
    smells of ass pulls and trolling those desperate for information. It's been like that since the 720 lost the upperhand.

    Anyways, only a month or so left.
    Why is that?

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    BC is overrated and always has been. When I go next gen, its hard to go back. I did it with my launch PS3, but it quickly got consigned to the wont use it feature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PottSie2 View Post
    BC is overrated and always has been. When I go next gen, its hard to go back. I did it with my launch PS3, but it quickly got consigned to the wont use it feature.
    Yeah when I move onto the next gen I never look back. If I wanted to play last gen games I would just keep my last gen console.

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