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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by *goo View Post
    Can you elaborate on what you disagree with about men and woman being treated equally? I'm not talking about mixing a male female boxing match, but I am saying equal pay for the same work, equal rights under the law etc.
    I don't think I was saying that either. But equal pay is probably mostly a natural problem rather than actual prejudism against women.

    Women aren't generally as skilled since they don't have the support and the expectations are low of them in families/society and it's probably also to do with their difference in physiology/psychology.

    As for the rest of your post. Being male doesn't mean you're genetically engineered to rape or be violent. Even if that were the case, there's no excuse not to afford the very same legal protections to men that women have if they're victims.
    Oh yes they are. Look up the differences between testosterone and estrogen. Men are born more aggressive in general than women. This is written in psychology books as observed facts. Our sex drives are very different. I'm not saying that all men are rapists but I think, depending on how normal they are (meaning, they don't have a low sex drive or lack of it), depending on circumstances and theoretical scenarios, I'd say they definitely have the ability to rape.

    In the world we live in with laws, enforcement, norm, mental grooming, influence, it wouldn't be easy but you take a man and a woman in the wilderness...where there's none of that...and the man hasn't done something about his urges, there's going to be some kind of rape happening there, granted if the woman doesn't want to. I firmly believe in that animalistic part of us. Look at animals for instance.

    Domestic violence, for example; is not a gendered crime. There are several studies that say its reciprocal and in many cases where violence is one partner hitting the other, it's women who are intimating it. Yet if a man were to call the police as a victim, policy would remove HIM from the home as the 'dominant aggressor'.
    There has to be a context to that. Statistically it may seem like women are about as bad but I'd like to see a big sample of these cases and look at what exactly happened...it just doesn't seem logical to me.

    Saying men don't get to enjoy these rights as it happens more to women is something I can't wrap my head around.

    Women make much more false rape accusations than men (anecdotal based on what I read in the media). How would you feel if I suggested they don't get to make rape claims? You'd tell me I was wrong, and you'd be correct. Just because it happens, doesn't mean women shouldn't be protected when they're a victim. The same goes for men.
    I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it happens because of that. It's a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    You may be surprised.
    As far as things such as domestic violence is concerned, it's generally about 50/50, sometimes with men actually being abused more. Last statistic I saw for the US was 56/44 split. People (and especially the court) don't pay attention at all to the suffering of men compared to women. Though, I guess that plays to your topic entirely.
    Well I'm thinking in more terms of normal lives. I can see abuse being close domestically but definitely not rape.

    Not really, I was just going by definition. 'Fairness' and 'equality' are exact synonyms for one another. You seem to be personally extending some traits about their definitions though, and I didn't really find your example to be very thorough. Equality means the criminals' actions are judged by a case-by-case basis under equal scrutiny respectively, which is the same as treating them both under fair law.
    Quote Originally Posted by podsaurus View Post
    Hmm I can see that impartial is a synonym of both but I don't see fair or equal as being direct synonyms to each other.

    Well let's say two people have been working in a farm field all day. They are paid the same, equally but one does most of the work while the other spends most of the time sitting around. You're treating them equally in terms of the money you're paying them and for the amount of work they supposedly did but in reality one did more work than the other. You're treating them the equally but that isn't fair based on what actually happened.

    It makes perfect sense to me. Now if the payment was split 60/40 and the person who did more work got 60 and the person who did less work got 40 that is fair. But its not an equal 50/50. Why would you treat them equally by paying each the same amount when one did more work than the other? That isn't fair or right.
    Fair can be interpreted both ways whereas equal is more specific. Like there are race-specific channels (radio/TV), is that equality? No. Is that fair? Probably.

  2. #52
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    Statistically, men are more raped than women are on average in the US. For whatever reason statistics never include prison rape.

    And yea, women get away with lots of emotional and even physical abuse towards males but its largely ignored. But the second you raise a hand to hit her all bets are off.


  3. #53
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    I can certainly agree with that but those situations aren't normal. I'm saying, outside prison, outside war, in general, women are more targetted for rape than men. And likely children that are both sexes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    I can certainly agree with that but those situations aren't normal. I'm saying, outside prison, outside war, in general, women are more targetted for rape than men. And likely children that are both sexes.
    At that point, though, you're putting lots of qualifiers on the data. "Well excluding this, this, this and this WOMEN ARE THE VICTIMS!" Ok, but what is that really saying?

    Why are men jailed more than women in the first place? How is it that, at least in the US, sentences for almost all offenses are much harder on men than women (INCLUDING sex crimes like pedophilia)? So we're putting men into these prisons, which are designed to be a revolving door for cons, to be abused and raped but somehow it doesn't count because "lul woman victimhood".

    Is it at all strange and worrying that due to high divorce rates\ single parent homes young males tend to turn out more predisposed towards pursuing a criminal path?

    Further, why is it that our justice system rewards women for breaking up with a man by allowing her access to belongings, almost invariably custody of the child, and alimony?

    I look at the numbers and I don't see women as being actual victims. Just the lie they've told themselves. Men, meanwhile, are being systematically abused and left behind.

    The videos I posted above are a little radical, even to me some of what they say seems kind of hard line- but it doesn't make it less true. Men are now skeptical and cautious, we want nothing to do with women. So naturally if we want little to do with them, we stick around only for sex and bail because we know what's coming.

    This whole thing is a ticking time bomb.

    Edit: I've been here for years so I trust alot of you ,though I recognize this is a public venue given its place on the internet. Some of you know my troubled past with a particular ex-fiancee but none of you know how bad it got.

    Let me say this, I know from experience how women are shaping out to be and this is coming from a former "White Knight" who always strove to treat women with respect and give them the benefit of the doubt. I'm a whole other man now, 3 years later.

    For good reason.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 05-01-2013 at 18:34.


  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    At that point, though, you're putting lots of qualifiers on the data. "Well excluding this, this, this and this WOMEN ARE THE VICTIMS!" Ok, but what is that really saying?

    Why are men jailed more than women in the first place? How is it that, at least in the US, sentences for almost all offenses are much harder on men than women (INCLUDING sex crimes like pedophilia)? So we're putting men into these prisons, which are designed to be a revolving door for cons, to be abused and raped but somehow it doesn't count because "lul woman victimhood".

    Is it at all strange and worrying that due to high divorce rates\ single parent homes young males tend to turn out more predisposed towards pursuing a criminal path?

    Further, why is it that our justice system rewards women for breaking up with a man by allowing her access to belongings, almost invariably custody of the child, and alimony?

    I look at the numbers and I don't see women as being actual victims. Just the lie they've told themselves. Men, meanwhile, are being systematically abused and left behind.

    The videos I posted above are a little radical, even to me some of what they say seems kind of hard line- but it doesn't make it less true. Men are now skeptical and cautious, we want nothing to do with women. So naturally if we want little to do with them, we stick around only for sex and bail because we know what's coming.

    This whole thing is a ticking time bomb.

    Edit: I've been here for years so I trust alot of you ,though I recognize this is a public venue given its place on the internet. Some of you know my troubled past with a particular ex-fiancee but none of you know how bad it got.

    Let me say this, I know from experience how women are shaping out to be and this is coming from a former "White Knight" who always strove to treat women with respect and give them the benefit of the doubt. I'm a whole other man now, 3 years later.

    For good reason.
    I don't disagree with anything you've just said. Yes that happens but you must realize that there are numerous things I can point out that are against women as well. Just the way things are. There are double standards on both sides, of course.

    I'd really like to see the world data on abuse/rape because I think it likely varies from country to country.

    It seems to me that naturally women would be the ones abused as a lot of women around the world don't have the power they have here...I know a woman for a fact, that became the aggressor and abuser once she came to the US. Before that, it was the opposite. Basically it was revenge time. This is beside the point but still interesting to note.

    EDIT: Another thing to note...while men are being raped...they are being raped mostly by other men. So the problem of rape is generally men. Is it not? I agree that men probably get raped more but really, it's not being done by women most of the time, is it?
    Last edited by Omar; 05-01-2013 at 18:41.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    I don't disagree with anything you've just said. Yes that happens but you must realize that there are numerous things I can point out that are against women as well. Just the way things are. There are double standards on both sides, of course.

    I'd really like to see the world data on abuse/rape because I think it likely varies from country to country.

    It seems to me that naturally women would be the ones abused as a lot of women around the world don't have the power they have here...I know a woman for a fact, that became the aggressor and abuser once she came to the US. Before that, it was the opposite. Basically it was revenge time. This is beside the point but still interesting to note.

    EDIT: Another thing to note...while men are being raped...they are being raped mostly by other men. So the problem of rape is generally men. Is it not? I agree that men probably get raped more but really, it's not being done by women most of the time, is it?
    Not all countries are so entrenched in feminism. I despise Saudi Arabia, for example, due to how they treat women among other things, because I knew a few Saudi girls who are close friends.

    I don't hate women as a gender, I'm just disdainful and cynical towards the ones I find here in the US and our feminists tendencies as a nation. We're replacing rationalism with emotionalism and extolling feminine virtues at the expense of masculine ones and its having obvious effects. But more importantly, we're lying and deceiving ourselves all the more as this is going on. Women are still viewed as 'victims' when in reality they are undeserving of the status.

    With victimhood in the US comes power and they want to remain in control of that power.


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    What I think is that they looked at the problems and decided to cover the most ground of how far the abuse went for the women and decided that that's where we'll draw the line.

    Now there are women that abuse that right. Simple. But there are genuine women out there that probably need those laws in place.

    Yea, we need more refined laws, definitely every case should be looked at case by case. But then that is already the case (or should be) and we all know it's not, it's human nature to be biased and have pre-determined judgement.

    EDIT: As for Saudi Arabia. I assure you, all cultures/countries out there have respect for women and men alike. Just that most of the world is just catching up with giving women rights. I know in Pakistan, from what I observed, women were respected far more than men. However, looking at atrocities against women (mostly in rural areas) is hard to believe and gulp but it happens and I would not have known that. There are always going to be horrifying cases in any country or region.

    I'm positive that while we hear that China prefers boy babies and still bury girl babies, I'm confident that if we went there and saw how women are generally treated, it would probably be more than men.

    The problem is global imo and has a lot to do with our physiology. If a woman could defend herself, this wouldn't be a problem to begin with.
    Last edited by Omar; 05-01-2013 at 18:58.

  8. #58
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    I'm a woman and there aren't many women on here so I wanted to add my opinion to this.

    As a lot of you guys mentioned, it really depends on the situation in terms of equality for men and women. There are three situations that are important to me that I can think of where I want to be treated equally:

    I am hoping to have a career in finance which can be a male dominated area so I would like to be paid the same amount as men who do the same job as me because I know I will be doing a job just as good as they are.

    In terms of gaming I want to be treated equally. As soon as someone knows I'm a girl when I play online I get treated very differently. I don't go putting it out there that I'm a woman but I do want to play games just like all the men do too and when they found out I'm a woman I get harassed so much and it's wrong.

    In relationships, I think the man and the woman should be on equal grounds. I would never want my boyfriend to pay for things for me or do extra things for me. We stay even on the money side and say he cooks me dinner one night I'll cook him dinner another night so it's fair. It would make me feel uncomfortable if our relationship wasn't equal for both of us.


    I recognise that men are physically stronger than women and so can do some things better than women in terms of some jobs and sports but that doesn't bother me because that's the way it naturally is.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    I don't think I was saying that either. But equal pay is probably mostly a natural problem rather than actual prejudism against women.

    Women aren't generally as skilled since they don't have the support and the expectations are low of them in families/society and it's probably also to do with their difference in physiology/psychology.
    Please could you explain more what you mean that women aren't generally as skilled?


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    Quote Originally Posted by holly View Post
    I'm a woman and there aren't many women on here so I wanted to add my opinion to this.

    As a lot of you guys mentioned, it really depends on the situation in terms of equality for men and women. There are three situations that are important to me that I can think of where I want to be treated equally:

    I am hoping to have a career in finance which can be a male dominated area so I would like to be paid the same amount as men who do the same job as me because I know I will be doing a job just as good as they are.
    I think there's definitely some prejudism out there against women but most of that is based on stereotypes and stereotypes aren't always inaccurate, they're just a form of generalization and that's why it's looked down upon. In reality, because women are new in the workforce, people don't expect them to be as good and the problem is that a good chunk of them probably aren't (I explain some of that at the bottom of this post).

    I'm positive that if you are as good as the guys out there, you will likely get paid the same. I don't think it's a big problem out there, just that I feel some women are expecting equal pay when they clearly aren't doing equal work (but they may be doing their best or not, who knows).

    In terms of gaming I want to be treated equally. As soon as someone knows I'm a girl when I play online I get treated very differently. I don't go putting it out there that I'm a woman but I do want to play games just like all the men do too and when they found out I'm a woman I get harassed so much and it's wrong.

    In relationships, I think the man and the woman should be on equal grounds. I would never want my boyfriend to pay for things for me or do extra things for me. We stay even on the money side and say he cooks me dinner one night I'll cook him dinner another night so it's fair. It would make me feel uncomfortable if our relationship wasn't equal for both of us.


    I recognise that men are physically stronger than women and so can do some things better than women in terms of some jobs and sports but that doesn't bother me because that's the way it naturally is.
    Yea that problem will never go away, sorry, just the way guys are programmed. They're horny.
    Please could you explain more what you mean that women aren't generally as skilled?
    Consider this, how long have women been in the workforce? Let's take out the outliers, I know arguments can be made that they've been there as long as men but I mean mainstream, they haven't.

    Then, you have the society (down to your family) that don't expect you to have a career. Maybe your parents do and half of America do but really there are a lot of people out there that don't expect women to be CEOs. That's another issue.

    Last but not least, due to our bodily differences (and psychological differences due to upbringing), women don't want to take as many risks and stresses that men do and more importantly are expected to do.

    That's why women aren't generally skilled out there.

    e.g. Look up general dentists. You'll find about the same amount of women and men. Then look into peridontists or other specialists like that and you'll find barely any women. There's a certain point where women just give up or just don't want to go further. These are part of the problem.

    Upbringing has a lot to do with this. As I personally believe that a man who is as short, less competitive and less powerful, would still in general do more things because it's expected out of him. Whereas women are treated like princesses until they're in their 20s or something. By then it's kind of late.
    Last edited by Omar; 05-04-2013 at 01:42.

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    As far as I'm aware, apart from Black Wolf you're the only woman on here Holly.


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    Woman only want equality when its convenient to them imo.

    Really they just want equality in opportunities in the work place which I can agree with but when it comes to sharing a home with a man and chores then that's an whole other thing.

    Its a dicey situation and topic however I feel that woman NOW a days get what they want and in some cases more than they should just because they are women. I've personally seen it in my career especially law if your an attractive female lawyer you start with almost 6 figures while me I had to work my way up from a crappy PD position.

    However their are fields where woman are never given a chance so its really hard for them to move up I know in the medical field its harder for them to move up.

    Will we ever have FULL equality between men and women I don't think so Men have then strength and women have theirs as well.

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  12. #62
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    Right, there are almost certainly some women out there who could do well in the NFL. That said, women also need to get equal access to training that would allow them to be in the NFL, if they so desire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    I don't think I was saying that either. But equal pay is probably mostly a natural problem rather than actual prejudism against women.

    Women aren't generally as skilled since they don't have the support and the expectations are low of them in families/society and it's probably also to do with their difference in physiology/psychology.

    Oh yes they are. Look up the differences between testosterone and estrogen. Men are born more aggressive in general than women. This is written in psychology books as observed facts. Our sex drives are very different. I'm not saying that all men are rapists but I think, depending on how normal they are (meaning, they don't have a low sex drive or lack of it), depending on circumstances and theoretical scenarios, I'd say they definitely have the ability to rape.

    In the world we live in with laws, enforcement, norm, mental grooming, influence, it wouldn't be easy but you take a man and a woman in the wilderness...where there's none of that...and the man hasn't done something about his urges, there's going to be some kind of rape happening there, granted if the woman doesn't want to. I firmly believe in that animalistic part of us. Look at animals for instance.

    There has to be a context to that. Statistically it may seem like women are about as bad but I'd like to see a big sample of these cases and look at what exactly happened...it just doesn't seem logical to me.

    I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it happens because of that. It's a problem.

    Well I'm thinking in more terms of normal lives. I can see abuse being close domestically but definitely not rape.

    Fair can be interpreted both ways whereas equal is more specific. Like there are race-specific channels (radio/TV), is that equality? No. Is that fair? Probably.
    A couple of things.

    Pay looks uneven with improper controls on the data it's being mined from but when apples are compared to apples, women are said to compare very well to men and in some cases; even better. The perceived gender gap can be summed up by things like time served, work/life balance and so on.

    From my own life experience, I don't think I've ever seen/heard of any women having a lower expectation on them. Whether they're generally seen as physiologically the same as men is another story, as they're not (each gender has their own strengths/weaknesses) but that's not to say they're 'weaker'. What's also interesting here is that women are outranking boys in education so I don't know how you can make that judgement of less expectations.

    Your comment on believing men are engineered to rape would be laughable if you weren't being so serious. I find it very worrying that you say taking a man into the wilderness with a woman would result in rape. That really sums up your view on the whole 'men are rapists' thing. The vast majority of men see rape as an abhorrent crime, for you to essentially label an entire gender as rapists is just wrong.

    Aside from that, what's interesting is that rape of men by women isn't recognised under the law of many countries (UK and US, I believe are just 2). Laws should be applied fairly to both genders, no exceptions - Something I'd hope you could agree with.

    An interesting video re: gender pay gap. This, I believe; actually dates back to the 70's.

    Last edited by *goo; 05-09-2013 at 18:17.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    I think there's definitely some prejudism out there against women but most of that is based on stereotypes and stereotypes aren't always inaccurate, they're just a form of generalization and that's why it's looked down upon. In reality, because women are new in the workforce, people don't expect them to be as good and the problem is that a good chunk of them probably aren't (I explain some of that at the bottom of this post).

    I'm positive that if you are as good as the guys out there, you will likely get paid the same. I don't think it's a big problem out there, just that I feel some women are expecting equal pay when they clearly aren't doing equal work (but they may be doing their best or not, who knows).


    Yea that problem will never go away, sorry, just the way guys are programmed. They're horny.

    Consider this, how long have women been in the workforce? Let's take out the outliers, I know arguments can be made that they've been there as long as men but I mean mainstream, they haven't.

    Then, you have the society (down to your family) that don't expect you to have a career. Maybe your parents do and half of America do but really there are a lot of people out there that don't expect women to be CEOs. That's another issue.

    Last but not least, due to our bodily differences (and psychological differences due to upbringing), women don't want to take as many risks and stresses that men do and more importantly are expected to do.

    That's why women aren't generally skilled out there.

    e.g. Look up general dentists. You'll find about the same amount of women and men. Then look into peridontists or other specialists like that and you'll find barely any women. There's a certain point where women just give up or just don't want to go further. These are part of the problem.

    Upbringing has a lot to do with this. As I personally believe that a man who is as short, less competitive and less powerful, would still in general do more things because it's expected out of him. Whereas women are treated like princesses until they're in their 20s or something. By then it's kind of late.
    I don't agree with your assumption women are less skilled because they are expected to do less and don't take as many risks.

    That generalisation is absurdly general.

    Your argument that men have been in the workforce longer than women and this means that women aren't as skilled as men doesn't have much credibility to me. Men as a group have been in the workforce for longer than women, yes, but this does not mean that inherently men are more skilled. The same men are not still in the workforce. Young men and women go into the workforce both inexperienced, the men do not have more advantage than the women because men as a whole have been in the workforce for longer. The reasons there have been men in the workforce longer are social reasons and expectations of men and women but these reasons do not equate to women being less skilled. Even if you just look at it from a logical viewpoint.

    I think it's also important to note here what *goo said about education. Women are performing better academically than men so I don't see how they wouldn't then be expected to succeed in a career or at least have the same expectation put on them as men for working life.

    You said that some women expect equal pay when they're not even doing equal work to men but perhaps may be doing their best. EXACTLY the same can be said about men. I'm sorry but men are not the benchmark here. You can just as much have a man not pulling his weight as much as you could have a woman not pulling her weight at work.

    With regards to your comment that women do not want to take as many risks and stresses that men do and aren't expected to, I don't see how you can make this a generalisation. I live a constant stressful life and I know lots of other women out there who do too and I actually prefer it that way. I choose things to make my life stressful and take risks. Just doing a quick google search on whether women take as many risks as men shows that they do.

    And you mention that women give up in specialisms, I don't think that is necessarily true. That's a sweeping generalisation and there are a whole host of reasons why there may be less women than men in some specialisms.

    And you can't just say that women are treated as princesses until they're in their 20s. That's highly specific.

    Specific to me, everyone around me expects me to succeed and do well in life. My upbringing has been so I have the ability to do well if I wish to.

    Also, a lot of people are actually encouraging women to be CEOs because they believe they bring a different set of skills to the table. They acknowledge that it's a problem there are few women in high level positions in business.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    As far as I'm aware, apart from Black Wolf you're the only woman on here Holly.
    Yeah I think you're right. There used to be a few others like carocat and sharkoutofwater but there never seems to be more than a few lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by *goo View Post
    A couple of things.

    Pay looks uneven with improper controls on the data it's being mined from but when apples are compared to apples, women are said to compare very well to men and in some cases; even better. The perceived gender gap can be summed up by things like time served, work/life balance and so on.

    From my own life experience, I don't think I've ever seen/heard of any women having a lower expectation on them. Whether they're generally seen as physiologically the same as men is another story, as they're not (each gender has their own strengths/weaknesses) but that's not to say they're 'weaker'. What's also interesting here is that women are outranking boys in education so I don't know how you can make that judgement of less expectations.
    Good points well made, I agree with you.



    On a side note, when it comes to guys and girls who game why can't guys put aside their horniness if that is the reason they treat girl gamers like they do? Can they not see it's inappropriate to harass a girl?


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    Quote Originally Posted by holly View Post
    I don't agree with your assumption women are less skilled because they are expected to do less and don't take as many risks.

    That generalisation is absurdly general.

    Your argument that men have been in the workforce longer than women and this means that women aren't as skilled as men doesn't have much credibility to me. Men as a group have been in the workforce for longer than women, yes, but this does not mean that inherently men are more skilled. The same men are not still in the workforce.
    Show me one place where I said it's inherent. You've missed my entire point.

    Young men and women go into the workforce both inexperienced, the men do not have more advantage than the women because men as a whole have been in the workforce for longer. The reasons there have been men in the workforce longer are social reasons and expectations of men and women but these reasons do not equate to women being less skilled. Even if you just look at it from a logical viewpoint.
    Now you're agreeing with me. That's exactly what I said, they have been longer in the workforce because of the expectations.

    I'm saying that women are less skilled because they don't have the support system that men do. Expectations are the root cause. Since women weren't expected to do physical work up until the 20th century, how can you expect everything to be perfectly set up so they can succeed?

    e.g. There are plenty of women out there that would not want a man to train them for personal/cultural/religious reasons so they are naturally at a high disadvantage due to that. In most cases, there aren't enough women trainers out there. Not just speaking about workforce before you misunderstand me.

    In all cases, it's more difficult for women to go out there and go through training that is designed for men when it needs to be changed to maximize their strengths.

    Read this for example: http://nation.time.com/2013/02/11/lady-navy-seals/

    That's evidence of disadvantages for women in a world that was built for men...unless there is fairness and changes, it will not be set up correctly so women can also succeed.

    I think it's also important to note here what *goo said about education. Women are performing better academically than men so I don't see how they wouldn't then be expected to succeed in a career or at least have the same expectation put on them as men for working life.
    That's true, it's been a trend for a long while now. The problem is that people still expect them to get married, have kids, stay home. Even if there is a large population out there that doesn't think this way (especially in developing countries), there is that do and men almost never get that issue. Usually men are never expected to stay home unless for reasons such as not being able to make as much money as their wives. One of the reasons.

    You said that some women expect equal pay when they're not even doing equal work to men but perhaps may be doing their best. EXACTLY the same can be said about men. I'm sorry but men are not the benchmark here. You can just as much have a man not pulling his weight as much as you could have a woman not pulling her weight at work.
    Never said it can't be the other way around. I said that going by the notion that they are disadvantaged from a structural point of view, and thus less skilled in general, you will find them to be lesser in higher posts or nonexistent in certain type of jobs.

    e.g. when was the last time you saw a woman salesman going from door to door making over a 100k? Most women wouldn't even want to go through with that.

    With regards to your comment that women do not want to take as many risks and stresses that men do and aren't expected to, I don't see how you can make this a generalisation. I live a constant stressful life and I know lots of other women out there who do too and I actually prefer it that way. I choose things to make my life stressful and take risks. Just doing a quick google search on whether women take as many risks as men shows that they do.
    We're both going off anecdotal evidence but generalization means that it's not correct in all cases, such as yourself. This is what I'm saying that I generally see in women. Again it all goes back to expectations.

    And you mention that women give up in specialisms, I don't think that is necessarily true. That's a sweeping generalisation and there are a whole host of reasons why there may be less women than men in some specialisms.
    And what are those reasons? I'm not saying there aren't other reasons but I'd like to know what they are. More than likely it's relative to something I've already mentioned.

    And you can't just say that women are treated as princesses until they're in their 20s. That's highly specific.

    Specific to me, everyone around me expects me to succeed and do well in life. My upbringing has been so I have the ability to do well if I wish to.

    Also, a lot of people are actually encouraging women to be CEOs because they believe they bring a different set of skills to the table. They acknowledge that it's a problem there are few women in high level positions in business.
    Yes, the push is that women should be doing all these things and can do them...thank you for agreeing with me again.

    I'm not talking about you specifically, all of these things I'm saying are in general (majority) that women are treated differently than men, especially in the early years. That's the opposite of specific.

    On a side note, when it comes to guys and girls who game why can't guys put aside their horniness if that is the reason they treat girl gamers like they do? Can they not see it's inappropriate to harass a girl?
    No. That's the problem, they don't because they're blinded by the chemical reactions in their body.

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    In all honesty, I think there can be complete equality between the sexes. The problem is society and the weak constitution (stomach) and general aversion it has to treating people as people instead of dividing itself into groups. A woman is just as capable in most aspect of society as a man and the same is true with men. We can dance around the specifics all we want and talk about physical and mental limitations given various tasks but we're not doing anyone any justice or favors.

    The problem is the feminizing of society. People have it so ingrained into their heads that women aren't capable of taking care of themselves physically, mentally, financially or emotionally, that they actively cow-tow to the special interest groups and feminists themselves, who actively promote, endorse and lobby for the status quo.

    Women are more than capable of standing on equal footing as their male counterparts. People just need to stop giving them handouts at the smallest sign of trouble.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morganator View Post
    In all honesty, I think there can be complete equality between the sexes. The problem is society and the weak constitution (stomach) and general aversion it has to treating people as people instead of dividing itself into groups. A woman is just as capable in most aspect of society as a man and the same is true with men. We can dance around the specifics all we want and talk about physical and mental limitations given various tasks but we're not doing anyone any justice or favors.

    The problem is the feminizing of society. People have it so ingrained into their heads that women aren't capable of taking care of themselves physically, mentally, financially or emotionally, that they actively cow-tow to the special interest groups and feminists themselves, who actively promote, endorse and lobby for the status quo.

    Women are more than capable of standing on equal footing as their male counterparts
    . People just need to stop giving them handouts at the smallest sign of trouble.
    Agree 100%.
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