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  1. #26
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    Tinfoil hats on? Ok.

    http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread...62867&page=125

    Current rumor, according to a Blizzard animator(?) is that the 720 "has always had" 8GB of GDDR5 and that "Sony were the ones who matched Microsoft". He has apparently been doing "drive by" posts on neogaf saying this for a long time now, and the community seems 50/50 on believing him there based on his posting habits.


  2. #27
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    Its good for gamers because the closer the two systems are the 'least common denominator' effect will be reduced even more when it comes to third party titles.

    BUT

    the inclusion of GDDR5 means all that ESRAM + move engines (bandwidth optimizaton) was false?

  3. #28
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    A few posters after him still seem to believe its DDR3. The microsoft announcement cant come soon enough.

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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    Its good for gamers because the closer the two systems are the 'least common denominator' effect will be reduced even more when it comes to third party titles.

    BUT

    the inclusion of GDDR5 means all that ESRAM + move engines (bandwidth optimizaton) was false?

    Well.. I certainly see less of a reason to have all that if this is true. For that reason alone I think he's full of it.

    Why would MS go to all that trouble of designing all of that and then go "LOL NEVERMIND!" and basically zip to an architecture very similar to the PS4?

    That would only make sense if their goals were 1:1 with Sony's more or less and I don't really see that as the case given their respective design philosophies up until this point both through official and unofficial channels.

    So no, I don't believe him. To me it doesn't make sense.. They had so much special silicon in the rumored Durango specs that to simply drop it is.. Stupid.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Tinfoil hats on? Ok.

    http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread...62867&page=125

    Current rumor, according to a Blizzard animator(?) is that the 720 "has always had" 8GB of GDDR5 and that "Sony were the ones who matched Microsoft". He has apparently been doing "drive by" posts on neogaf saying this for a long time now, and the community seems 50/50 on believing him there based on his posting habits.
    Microsoft couldn't have always had 8GB of GDDR5. Maybe GDDR5, but not 8GB worth. Mass production of the 4-Gbit GDDR5 chips didn't start until January and it would had taken thirty-two 2-Gbit chips to reach 8GB(far too many for a console).

    It is no coincidence that Sony supposedly decided on 8GB GDDR5 the month 4-Gbit chips went into mass production. It would had been far too risky to go with 8GB GDDR5 until they knew that the 4-Gbit chips would be ready. Otherwise, a delay for the 4-Gbit chips would had screwed them.

  6. #31
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    Blizzard developer stated that Sony copied ZmS not the other way around which is true. The durango kits were out well over a yesr ahesd of Orbis.

    uuummmmm...Fried Beer iis a reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sith View Post
    Blizzard developer stated that Sony copied ZmS not the other way around which is true. The durango kits were out well over a yesr ahesd of Orbis.
    Sony couldn't had coped MS on 8GB GDDR5 because 8GB GDDR5 would had been far too impractical before January of this year, which happens to be when Sony decided to switch to 8GB GDDR5.

    I don't have any doubts MS went with 8GB of DDR3 RAM first before Sony decided to switch to 8GB of GDDR5 RAM; which is probably what he is thinking of(assuming he has inside knowledge).

    It is not even so much that Sony copied MS as it is that developers had been asking for 8GB of RAM and it became financially and physically (for a console) possible for 8GB GDDR5 in January.
    Last edited by Ryunosuke; 05-08-2013 at 05:17.

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  9. #33
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    You know what I think.....



    Now wouldn't be awesome if they lead with that and their reveal!

    In short, 2 weeks of crazy talk to go.....

  10. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryunosuke View Post
    Microsoft couldn't have always had 8GB of GDDR5. Maybe GDDR5, but not 8GB worth. Mass production of the 4-Gbit GDDR5 chips didn't start until January and it would had taken thirty-two 2-Gbit chips to reach 8GB(far too many for a console).

    It is no coincidence that Sony supposedly decided on 8GB GDDR5 the month 4-Gbit chips went into mass production. It would had been far too risky to go with 8GB GDDR5 until they knew that the 4-Gbit chips would be ready. Otherwise, a delay for the 4-Gbit chips would had screwed them.
    You dont know what they were able or unable to do, with the money they have anything is possible, if they are willing to pay for it. It is as simple as that.
    Last edited by X2; 05-08-2013 at 08:11.
    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?"
    --Kaz Hirai, CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment

  11. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by X2 View Post
    You dont know what there were able or unable to do, with the money they have anything i possible if they are willing to pay for it. It at simple as that.

    ....

    There's limits. Anybody with alot of money "could do anything if they are willing to pay for it" but the question is how stupid a decision would it be? How mind numbingly impractical?


  12. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    ....

    There's limits. Anybody with alot of money "could do anything if they are willing to pay for it" but the question is how stupid a decision would it be? How mind numbingly impractical?
    If you had enough money you could..I don't know...have a chimpanzee riding on a segway.

    Personally I've given up, now that I have a date, I will find up watch she's wearing when da $#@! turns up...

    And she betta have my money.....

  13. #37
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    I swear some people think GDDR5 8GB is only exclusively to Sony. No other company have access to it for their console Design.
    Last edited by The Sith; 05-08-2013 at 07:01.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sith View Post
    I swear some people think GDDR5 8GB is only exclusively to Sony. No other company have access to it for their console Design.
    No a single person is saying that.

    If Microsoft uses 8GB of GDDR5 the decision to switch to it would have been made around January 2013 or later when 4-Gbit chips went into mass production. This would also mean that Microsoft would had to have used 4GB or less of GDDR5 RAM prior to ~January 2013.

    If Microsoft had went with 8GB GDDR5 all along they would had been stuck with 8GB GDDR5 since software would had been developed with 8GB GDDR5 in mind. If that had happen and 4-Gbit chips were for whatever reason delayed Microsoft would had to pay an outrageous price for 4-Gbit chips to achieve 8GB and face massive shortages.

    The only other option to achieve 8GB GDDR5 would had been to use thirty-two 2-Gbit GDDR5 chips, which is not practical for something like a console.

    This is very likely why the decision to switch to 8GB GDDR5 by Sony wasn't made until ~January 2013.

  15. #39
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    Im pretty sure either company would have known if these chips were close to manufacture, just saying, I dont think Sony woke up one day and went oh look we could do 8gb now!

    P.S. Its been in Samsung catalog since November 2012. And estimated shipping in Sept 12.

    Just sayin....


    http://www.samsung.com/global/busine...e_nov_12-0.pdf
    Last edited by mynd; 05-08-2013 at 09:22.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Im pretty sure either company would have known if these chips were close to manufacture, just saying, I dont think Sony woke up one day and went oh look we could do 8gb now!
    To a certain point. Up to nearly Q4 of last year it was believed (even by memory manufactures) that DDR4 would go into mass production in late 2012, now we are at the point where mass production isn't expected until ~2015.

    Sony may have kept a close eye on when 8GB GDDR5 became possible (both physically and financially), but there is no way they would have locked themselves into 8GB GDDR5 by telling developers until it became physically and financially possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryunosuke View Post
    To a certain point. Up to nearly Q4 of last year it was believed (even by memory manufactures) that DDR4 would go into mass production in late 2012, now we are at the point where mass production isn't expected until ~2015.

    Sony may have kept a close eye on when 8GB GDDR5 became possible (both physically and financially), but there is no way they would have locked themselves into 8GB GDDR5 by telling developers until it became physically and financially possible.
    Well it became a reality in september 2012, and anyone who was interested in was likely told it was coming well before then.

    Given "who" manufactures it, they have a very very tight working relationship with MS.

    Now i aint saying one way or another but certainly anything is possible.
    Last edited by mynd; 05-08-2013 at 09:35.

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    Mass production didn't start in September 2012. The fact that in a November 2012 catalog it is still listed as "ES Sept. '12" and everything else is listed as "Mass Production" should show this.

    This should also prove my point that you can not trust estimated dates, especially when there is so much as risk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryunosuke View Post
    Mass production didn't start in September 2012. The fact that in a November 2012 catalog it is still listed as "ES Sept. '12" and everything else is listed as "Mass Production" should show this.

    This should also prove my point that you can not trust estimated dates, especially when there is so much as risk.
    No one said mass production started in september. Nor do you need mass production. You just need to know its being manufactured.
    Reality is you can buy it, if you want to put a huge order in, your likely going to have to do it ahead of time. But you can bet dollars for donuts that Sony have been looking at it as serious option for nearly a year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    No one said mass production started in september. Nor do you need mass production. You just need to know its being manufactured.
    Reality is you can buy it, if you want to put a huge order in, your likely going to have to do it ahead of time. But you can bet dollars for donuts that Sony have been looking at it as serious option for nearly a year.
    It may had been as serious option, but until mass production start that is all it was. I am sure at some point there was a lot of stuff that was serious options for both MS and Sony; some of it possible, some of it not due to various reasons.

    I will go back to DDR4 prices. In June of last DDR4 was priced at $30 per 4-Gbit chip(meaning you had to pay a very high premium due to lack of mass production); mass production was expected to bring down the price to around $5 per 4-Gbit chip. This would apply to 4-Gbit GDDR5 as well; probably not $30 per chip, but beyond what is practical for a $500 or less console.

    If Sony or MS had went with DDR4 due to the expectations that mass production was going to start in late 2012 or at least by time the consoles launched they would be screwed at the moment. They would have to either delay the console or pay the very high premium. The same thing could had happen with 8GB GDDR5, if they had locked themselves into it before mass production started.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryunosuke View Post
    It may had been as serious option, but until mass production start that is all it was. I am sure at some point there was a lot of stuff that was serious options for both MS and Sony; some of it possible, some of it not due to various reasons.

    I will go back to DDR4 prices. In June of last DDR4 was priced at $30 per 4-Gbit chip(meaning you had to pay a very high premium due to lack of mass production); mass production was expected to bring down the price to around $5 per 4-Gbit chip. This would apply to 4-Gbit GDDR5 as well; probably not $30 per chip, but beyond what is practical for a $500 or less console.

    If Sony or MS had went with DDR4 due to the expectations that mass production was going to start in late 2012 or at least by time the consoles launched they would be screwed at the moment. They would have to either delay the console or pay the very high premium. The same thing could had happen with 8GB GDDR5, if they had locked themselves into it before mass production started.
    Well that's the trick, having options.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Well that's the trick, having options.
    The problem is, it is only an option if they (MS) were going with GDDR5 in the first place and willing to settle for 4GB or less when they decided to go with GDDR5. If 8GB RAM was a must around 8 or so months ago, GDDR5 wouldn't had been on the table.

    Sony was fully prepared to go with 4GB GDDR5 if 8GB GDDR5 didn't pan out. They wouldn't/didn't commit until they knew it would pan out (~January 2013) and neither would MS.

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    Something worth noting Mynd is that from the get go a myriad of sources have said that MS was using DDR3, not GDDR5. And that they were using 8GB of it to boot.

    so ripping up their whole memory system and architecture to slot in GDDR5 makes no sense. They have the ESRAM and DME's in place to mitigate the effects of the low bandwidth.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryunosuke View Post
    The problem is, it is only an option if they (MS) were going with GDDR5 in the first place and willing to settle for 4GB or less when they decided to go with GDDR5. If 8GB RAM was a must around 8 or so months ago, GDDR5 wouldn't had been on the table.

    Sony was fully prepared to go with 4GB GDDR5 if 8GB GDDR5 didn't pan out. They wouldn't/didn't commit until they knew it would pan out (~January 2013) and neither would MS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Something worth noting Mynd is that from the get go a myriad of sources have said that MS was using DDR3, not GDDR5. And that they were using 8GB of it to boot.

    so ripping up their whole memory system and architecture to slot in GDDR5 makes no sense. They have the ESRAM and DME's in place to mitigate the effects of the low bandwidth.
    I wasn't actually passing judgement on if MS has or not, I was merely coming at this from the point of view that Sony some how made the decision last minute.
    As I have said, I have date with that girl in the green dress on the 22 of May, its a blind date, so I'm preparing myself for anything.
    Last edited by mynd; 05-08-2013 at 21:05.

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