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  1. #1
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    don't spec into the hmg its broken bad.

    if you are thinking about being a heavy don't spec into hmg yet. it is nerfed beyond use. level up your side arm first or the forge gun but don't give them your sp for the hmg till it gets fixed.
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    Then again its still in beta. The hmg was too powerful too begin with.

    Sent from my HTC-PG762 using Tapatalk 2

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    yeah, all i've seen is heavies rocking regular assault rifles.

    the balancing that they worked so hard for in chromosome was apparently thrown out the window
    its not the first time the heavy has been gimped though. i think in codex there was one week where they played around with the heavies and an assault class could take them down head on.

    so no doubt there will be a fix soon.
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    CCP are actively looking at the HMG issue and are monitoring stats.They know people aren't happy so watch this space.

  5. #5
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    CCP Remnant

    I don't hate the Heavies. Or the HMG.

    Well, actually, I hate everyone on the planet equally so technically I guess that means I hate no-one (we're all snowflakes!)

    Good to see some intelligent debate and solid points in this thread, so thanks for that! Just wanted to jump in an explain the thinking behind some of the recent changes.

    - The SS skill had to go. It should never have been there in the first place as it pushed all weapons well beyond their intended ranges and with more racial variants coming into the game (rail rifle, combat rifle etc.) it was more important than ever to have cleaner range profiles for all weaponry.
    - The Sentinel was designed primarily as a point defense role. His speed and slow turn rate make him unsuitable for frontline combat. His presence should make anyone think twice before approaching a position. I'm not sure but it seems to me that a lot of the complaints about the ineffectiveness of the HMG stem from the fact that people want to use it to lead the charge into enemy territory. The HMG is not well suited for use in open areas but it comes into its own when used in outposts where targets are confined to narrow spaces. And at close range, the HMG is still very effective, I believe.

    The HMG's optimal range is up to 30m and max. effective range caps out at 50m. (This is currently a hard cap - all weapons stop doing any damage beyond their max range - but we're going to be fixing this soon. Like soon soon, not SOON(tm).) What it needs is not a damage buff (it kills just fine) but a gentler damage falloff curve so that it can be used as an effective suppression weapon in the 50-70m range. As an attacker, right now it's too easy to shrug off the hits and close the gap between yourself and the person wielding the HMG so that's something I'd like to address as soon as possible.

    Other smaller tweaks like lessening kick (which gets pretty excessive as the weapon nears its heat threshold) and a modest improvement in how quickly the weapon reaches optimal dispersion should make it feel much better.

    Anyway, thanks for the ten-page thread, guys. I look forward to the next ten pages!


    https://forums.dust514.com/default.a...498#post768498
    Last edited by Ghost; 05-08-2013 at 12:13.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robardian View Post
    Then again its still in beta. The hmg was too powerful too begin with.

    Sent from my HTC-PG762 using Tapatalk 2
    The hmg was not too powerful. People just couldnt get their heads around playing to the range of their weapons. Heavies cant chase you because they are slow, they can be worn down easily because they have the longest delay on their sheild recharge and the maps are built in such a way that where ever a heavy is there is a spot to shoot him from that is at least 50 m away. They also turn slow making them vulnerable to straffing shotgunners and a cooked gernade still took them out just lik everyone else. Ccp correctly decided to get rid of sharp shooter because a guns range should be a set thing. But they then should have made the range equal to what it would have been at level 5 sharp shooter.
    What i hate is that they say they did these changes based on stats from the game. I seriously doubt that they have any stats on how people were playing, just what they were using and how far they were apart they were. Its also highly unlikely that they have a way of keeping stats on teamwork or how things like suitswapping effected the effectiveness of heavy weapons.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill the noon View Post
    The hmg was not too powerful. People just couldnt get their heads around playing to the range of their weapons. Heavies cant chase you because they are slow, they can be worn down easily because they have the longest delay on their sheild recharge and the maps are built in such a way that where ever a heavy is there is a spot to shoot him from that is at least 50 m away. They also turn slow making them vulnerable to straffing shotgunners and a cooked gernade still took them out just lik everyone else. Ccp correctly decided to get rid of sharp shooter because a guns range should be a set thing. But they then should have made the range equal to what it would have been at level 5 sharp shooter.
    What i hate is that they say they did these changes based on stats from the game. I seriously doubt that they have any stats on how people were playing, just what they were using and how far they were apart they were. Its also highly unlikely that they have a way of keeping stats on teamwork or how things like suitswapping effected the effectiveness of heavy weapons.
    You wouldn't believe the stats that CCP can track.

    I wish you'd jump on bill, they're looking into it.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost-Rhayne View Post
    CCP Remnant

    I don't hate the Heavies. Or the HMG.

    Well, actually, I hate everyone on the planet equally so technically I guess that means I hate no-one (we're all snowflakes!)

    Good to see some intelligent debate and solid points in this thread, so thanks for that! Just wanted to jump in an explain the thinking behind some of the recent changes.

    - The SS skill had to go. It should never have been there in the first place as it pushed all weapons well beyond their intended ranges and with more racial variants coming into the game (rail rifle, combat rifle etc.) it was more important than ever to have cleaner range profiles for all weaponry.
    - The Sentinel was designed primarily as a point defense role. His speed and slow turn rate make him unsuitable for frontline combat. His presence should make anyone think twice before approaching a position. I'm not sure but it seems to me that a lot of the complaints about the ineffectiveness of the HMG stem from the fact that people want to use it to lead the charge into enemy territory. The HMG is not well suited for use in open areas but it comes into its own when used in outposts where targets are confined to narrow spaces. And at close range, the HMG is still very effective, I believe.

    The HMG's optimal range is up to 30m and max. effective range caps out at 50m. (This is currently a hard cap - all weapons stop doing any damage beyond their max range - but we're going to be fixing this soon. Like soon soon, not SOON(tm).) What it needs is not a damage buff (it kills just fine) but a gentler damage falloff curve so that it can be used as an effective suppression weapon in the 50-70m range. As an attacker, right now it's too easy to shrug off the hits and close the gap between yourself and the person wielding the HMG so that's something I'd like to address as soon as possible.

    Other smaller tweaks like lessening kick (which gets pretty excessive as the weapon nears its heat threshold) and a modest improvement in how quickly the weapon reaches optimal dispersion should make it feel much better.

    Anyway, thanks for the ten-page thread, guys. I look forward to the next ten pages!


    https://forums.dust514.com/default.a...498#post768498
    See this is what i mean he says that the suit that can only get warpoints by killing people wasnt meant to be used offensively. So we are supposed to just sit in the back and wait for people to come to us. He seems to think that there is a gameplay difference between attacking and defending other than where you are located. As though crappy turning only effects you when your in the enemy . Go thru the maps in your head how many spots can you really say that a heavy could stand and not be open to fire from more then 25 M. We basically have to hope the enemy is too impatient to try to flank us.
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  9. #9
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    #1 Posted: 2013.05.10 09:43






    Posting the following info on upcoming changes to weapon damage and HMG balance on behalf of CCP Rement since he's knee deep in making these changes. He will also be answer questions and discussing this topic in this thread as well.

    Tl;dr version:
    • In the next hot-fix weapons will all get a 10% damage increase to compensate for the removal of the Weaponry skill bonus.
    • HMG damage buffed to 18 HP (including aforementioned 10% increase) and given a 5% dispersion buff.
    • In the near future, we will address range issues by removing the hard stop that currently takes place at maximum weapon range.

    In Chromosome, the Weaponry skill gave an across the board 2% damage bonus to handheld weapons per level. Given the low SP cost of the skill (and the fact that it’s a pre-req for every weapon in the game) the majority of players would just skill straight to level 5 making the skill pretty pointless. So, in Uprising we removed the skill bonus. The side effect of this, of course, is that time-to-kill has increased.

    This, combined with some of the control issues we’ve been seeing, has led to combat feeling worse than it did in Chromosome. We will address this with a hot-fix that gives an across the board 10% increase to all handheld weapon damage to put DPS back to where it was. Additionally, we’ve increased HMG damage and reduced the dispersion penalty when moving by 5% to address issues with the weapon.

    The removal of the Sharpshooter skill (which gave bonuses to range) has also highlighted some issues with range in general. Weapon classes need unique range profiles. I doubt anyone would dispute that. And the sharpshooter skill was pushing far too many weapons beyond their intended engagement ranges. While it’s removal has caused some issues, the SS skill was a crutch and it hid more deep-seated problems with range in the game. It will not be coming back.

    Right now, all weapons have an optimal and maximum range. Unfortunately, at its max range the weapon simply stops doing damage. This is bad for a whole host of reasons and we’ll be addressing this with a point release in the near future by giving all weapons an optimal, effective and absolute range. Up to the optimal range weapons will do 100% damage (shield/armor profiles notwithstanding) and then drop off slowly towards their effective range. From effective range out to the absolute range damage will drop noticeably but weapons will still do incidental damage even at extreme ranges.
    https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=75425

  10. #10
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    They are buffing the hmg damage to 18. This shows how off they were. Thats like a 50% increase. I no longer think chromosome build was about balancing, just about buying time to build a better game engine. Now that we have the new engine we have to do all the balancing that they said that the last build was for. We werent helping them test anything just ensuring a income stream. Notice how he points out that the ss skill should never have been there. But that skill was in all the previous builds and survived many resets. If it was breaking the range of the game why were they not adjusting range variables in the beta.
    The real beta seems to have started now. I bet we will see more balancing to the game play now then we ever saw in the beta. And that is backwards.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill the noon View Post
    They are buffing the hmg damage to 18. This shows how off they were. Thats like a 50% increase. I no longer think chromosome build was about balancing, just about buying time to build a better game engine. Now that we have the new engine we have to do all the balancing that they said that the last build was for. We werent helping them test anything just ensuring a income stream. Notice how he points out that the ss skill should never have been there. But that skill was in all the previous builds and survived many resets. If it was breaking the range of the game why were they not adjusting range variables in the beta.
    The real beta seems to have started now. I bet we will see more balancing to the game play now then we ever saw in the beta. And that is backwards.
    They didn't have all of the race variants ready in the beta though. There will be different range profiles among the ARs for example; Chromosome was too imcomplete for any real balancing to go on that could be used in a meaningful way today and in the future.

    To be honest, the game balancing will never end, and thats just part and parcel of playing a game that will keep growing and expanding. That's where we come in, the gamers, to be part of the dialog loop between CCP and the gamers. History shows that they wont always hit the mark, but they will always work to fix their mistakes, and they are doing that now. Gonna jump back in bill? C'mon!

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