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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    @TRF

    What countries and what regulations.
    Look at Japan, for one. Their gun control measures have led to the yearly gun homicides being in the low double digits. New Zealand, United Kingdom, Germany, etc.

    Also, I wouldn't use Breitbart.com as a source. Their "journalism" can be a bit iffy.


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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Look at Japan, for one. Their gun control measures have led to the yearly gun homicides being in the low double digits. New Zealand, United Kingdom, Germany, etc.

    .
    You can not compare those countries to the USA. USA is a diverse country and is young compared to the others.We already have millions of guns in circulation, and millions more unknown. The countries you listed nipped the gun thing early before their places become over ran with it. In those countries citizens actually supported it to. USA was founded on the right to bear arms and it is unrealistic to suddenly ban/regulate guns with the millions out there.

    No other country has a diverse population of people as America does. Banning guns may solve the big shooting, and of course would only work if every single person who has a gun turns it in which is unrealistic, but crime would still be around it'll just be knives that are used so I guess we should ban those, but wait then it'll be stuff like hammer and crowbars so lets ban those...you see where I am going.

    Find me another country out there that is like America and has ban guns and is doing great and I will change my opinion. But there is none.
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  3. #28
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    That's a cheap way to ignore every set of statistics ever.


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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    That's a cheap way to ignore every set of statistics ever.


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    No it is REALISTIC. I am sure if you ban guns every citizen would gladly hand it over and there would be no more right? lol

    Also in order for statistics, or theory in this case, to be proven it must meet same condition twice. No other country is like America so until you find me one that is and this has been proven to work there you're just being unrealstic.

    Oh and I am sure you know that Japan didn't get gun weapon ban until we dropped two bombs on them, took over their country for a while, and they signed a non aggressive treaty which ended feudalism and introduced new sets of laws one of which was to ban citizens from having guns and that's why the do not have many weapons and police do not carry but one gun.....I am sure you knew that tho.

    Germany...do you really want me to go into the history of that?

    These gun ban laws in other country didn't happen when there was already millions of guns already in the country, and the ones that did look at their history and what happened that lead to the laws. But I am sure you knew that. And that is what you want??? Really???
    Last edited by Yuuichi; 05-08-2013 at 16:24.
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  5. #30
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  6. #31
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  7. Likes MjW wishes they had posted this first.
  8. #32
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    Firearms: Why gun owners don't trust gun control advocates

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuuichi View Post
    No it is REALISTIC. I am sure if you ban guns every citizen would gladly hand it over and there would be no more right? lol

    Also in order for statistics, or theory in this case, to be proven it must meet same condition twice. No other country is like America so until you find me one that is and this has been proven to work there you're just being unrealstic.

    Oh and I am sure you know that Japan didn't get gun weapon ban until we dropped two bombs on them, took over their country for a while, and they signed a non aggressive treaty which ended feudalism and introduced new sets of laws one of which was to ban citizens from having guns and that's why the do not have many weapons and police do not carry but one gun.....I am sure you knew that tho.

    Germany...do you really want me to go into the history of that?

    These gun ban laws in other country didn't happen when there was already millions of guns already in the country, and the ones that did look at their history and what happened that lead to the laws. But I am sure you knew that. And that is what you want??? Really???
    So what you're saying is that because it's too late and because everyone already has guns, we shouldn't bother anymore? That makes absolutely no sense.

    Those nations show that a populace with gun limits is a safe populace. Whether they had guns already or not, it's proof that less guns equals less violence. How we go about promoting that may be different but the end result should be the same.


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  9. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    So what you're saying is that because it's too late and because everyone already has guns, we shouldn't bother anymore? That makes absolutely no sense.

    .
    If it make no sense then you obviously are either not thinking about what it would take to make it a reality, or you do know and are just ignorant of it. Because I have told you about the gun thins came in Japan, and I assuming you are familer with Germany Hitler history I am going with the ignorant part.
    Last edited by Yuuichi; 05-08-2013 at 17:06.
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  10. #34
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    At this point, if you're still advocating anti-gun measures, you're a traitor who deserves exile at the minimum and possibly death. I've exactly no more patience for anti-gun people. You're either a freedom-loving American or a hypocrite traitor. There is no in-between.

  11. #35
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    Firearms: Why gun owners don't trust gun control advocates

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuuichi View Post
    If it make no sense then you obviously are either not thinking about what it would take to make it a reality, or you do know and are just ignorant of it. Because I have told you about the gun thins came in Japan, and I assuming you are familer with Germany Hitler history I am going with the ignorant part.
    Yes but your argument seems to be only showing to me that our method of regulating guns should be different. Every other country shows that gun regulation leads to less violence. We obviously can't approach it the same way because you're right, we aren't in the same circumstances as those other countries were. But we should try to get to the same end result as them and try to achieve the same end. They've proven that regulation works. We just need to retrofit it to work with our situation. And I think stronger background checks and a ban on assault weapons is a good place to start.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morganator View Post
    At this point, if you're still advocating anti-gun measures, you're a traitor who deserves exile at the minimum and possibly death. I've exactly no more patience for anti-gun people. You're either a freedom-loving American or a hypocrite traitor. There is no in-between.
    There's this great new shade that's just come out, it's called grey. You should look into it.




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  12. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Look at Japan, for one. Their gun control measures have led to the yearly gun homicides being in the low double digits. New Zealand, United Kingdom, Germany, etc.

    Also, I wouldn't use Breitbart.com as a source. Their "journalism" can be a bit iffy.


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    Japan is in no way comparable to pretty much any other nation.

    http://www.guncite.com/journals/dkjgc.html

  13. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Yes but your argument seems to be only showing to me that our method of regulating guns should be different. Every other country shows that gun regulation leads to less violence. We obviously can't approach it the same way because you're right, we aren't in the same circumstances as those other countries were. But we should try to get to the same end result as them and try to achieve the same end. They've proven that regulation works. We just need to retrofit it to work with our situation. And I think stronger background checks and a ban on assault weapons is a good place to start.
    Ok I think I am getting your side more. As appose to a flat out ban, like something over night and suddenly passed which is what ban people have been saying, you just want the stronger checks. It is a good idea but the people who do these crimes very rarely use their own guns so a background check would not impact as much as you think. It all starts with gun education and people having the common sense to lock their guns up. Then from there looking at other parts like our justice system and health system because many people who do these big shootings are not in proper mental health. Then again that is my unrealistic dream that everyone would just use a little extra "give a crap" and look at warning signs instead of ignoring them.
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  14. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Look at Japan, for one. Their gun control measures have led to the yearly gun homicides being in the low double digits. New Zealand, United Kingdom, Germany, etc.

    Also, I wouldn't use Breitbart.com as a source. Their "journalism" can be a bit iffy.


    Tapatalking from my bed. Ya mutha says hi.
    This means nothing. The only worth while thing to look at is how such gun laws and regulations impacted -net- crime, not gun crime.

    You mention the UK, but they are the most violent nation in the EU right now. Stabbings are the principle method of homicide and their gun laws have had zero positive impact on the nation as a whole. Sure, they can say "well we have fewer gun related injuries, crimes and murders now!" but look at the total level before and after and take into account any pre existing trends.

    Zero positive change.

    You're misinterpreting the data my friend, you are making a mistake many do.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 05-08-2013 at 18:43.
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  15. Likes Ixion wishes they had posted this first.
  16. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuuichi View Post
    Ok I think I am getting your side more. As appose to a flat out ban, like something over night and suddenly passed which is what ban people have been saying, you just want the stronger checks. It is a good idea but the people who do these crimes very rarely use their own guns so a background check would not impact as much as you think. It all starts with gun education and people having the common sense to lock their guns up. Then from there looking at other parts like our justice system and health system because many people who do these big shootings are not in proper mental health. Then again that is my unrealistic dream that everyone would just use a little extra "give a crap" and look at warning signs instead of ignoring them.
    Ideally, people would be accountable enough to use their firearms responsibly. I'll probably own a firearm at one point. But sadly, people AREN'T accountable. There are too many idiots out there who CAN'T use a gun properly, and we need protection from them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    This means nothing. The only worth while thing to look at is how such gun laws and regulations impacted -net- crime, not gun crime.

    You mention the UK, but they are the most violent nation in the EU right now. Stabbings are the principle method of homicide and their gun laws have had zero positive impact on the nation as a whole. Sure, they can say "well we have fewer gun related injuries, crimes and murders now!" but look at the total level before and after and take into account any pre existing trends.

    Zero positive change.

    You're misinterpreting the data my friend, you are making a mistake many do.
    Maybe the UK is a bad example, but I find that it's harder to kill someone with a knife than with a gun. Most other similar nations do have a higher rate of murder than we do. What we're doing is making sure not to empower the murderers, and since we can't ban all knives (which are used for other things; guns aren't), we have to regulate the things that are used to empower them. But I'm half-asleep now so what I'm saying probably isn't even making sense, lol.


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  17. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    it's harder to kill someone with a knife than with a gun.
    It's also harder to defend yourself with a knife than with a gun. Especially when there are already over 100 million guns in circulation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    There's this great new shade that's just come out, it's called grey. You should look into it.
    It doesn't apply to liberties though. You can't be for one aspect of liberty and not another without also being a hypocrite. You think I'm wrong? Try this thought exercise.

    What if I told you that applying your 2nd Amendment right to your 1st Amendment right is the LAST & FINAL act of your 1st Amendment right? What would you say to this?

    2nd Amendment:
    A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed
    1st Amendment:
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    If you don't see it this way, allow me to introduce you to Adam Kokesh

    http://www.infowars.com/armed-march-...or-courageous/

    Read the article and you will see just how many other like-minded people are out there. Keep in mind, no one is suggesting violence so you may want to rid yourself of this thought process altogether.

  19. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    It's also harder to defend yourself with a knife than with a gun. Especially when there are already over 100 million guns in circulation.
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  20. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    It's also harder to defend yourself with a knife than with a gun. Especially when there are already over 100 million guns in circulation.
    No one is saying you can't own a gun. But the regulations will disarm the bad guys.


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  21. #44
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    Mostly law abiding citizens, though. And any criminal worth his salt who is hell bent on doing something will be able to regardless.

    Last edited by Vulgotha; 05-08-2013 at 23:33.
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  22. #45
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    I say just require gun owners to carry insurance for it to cover the damage it may cause if in the wrong hands or in your own hands. That's probably the only regulation that's needed beyond what we already have as no matter what regulations you put in place the criminals will still be criminals.
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  23. #46
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    To be fair if I ever moved to America I would probably buy a gun just because I could.
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  24. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by weskurtz81 View Post
    I say just require gun owners to carry insurance for it to cover the damage it may cause if in the wrong hands or in your own hands. That's probably the only regulation that's needed beyond what we already have as no matter what regulations you put in place the criminals will still be criminals.
    No

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  25. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gantz View Post
    No

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  26. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by weskurtz81 View Post
    I say just require gun owners to carry insurance for it to cover the damage it may cause if in the wrong hands or in your own hands. That's probably the only regulation that's needed beyond what we already have as no matter what regulations you put in place the criminals will still be criminals.
    Edit:

    I balked at the suggestion of mandatory insurance for firearms. To be frank, I'm not sold on insurance as such a beneficial thing in general.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gwarble View Post
    It's not at all surprising that the vast majority of gun nuts' arguments are colored by fear and paranoid delusion. Background checks are exaggerated to claims of, 'DUH GUBMENT COMIN FER MUH GUNS!1!'. Laughable threats of impending 'civil war' from what amounts to a shrinking minority that, if not for the political clout their favorite lobby carries, would be entirely irrelevant. Delusions of grandeur, visions of fighting off their government (who spends more on its weapons and military than the next 15 countries in line, combined) using their tiny little peashooters.

    It's the fantasy of nuts. But it does a great job of telling you about the entrenched mentality you're dealing with. And it isn't healthy. Thankfully, it's one that's shrinking rather than growing. On a long enough timeline, guns are an issue we'll make progress on. No matter how much some would desperately love to pretend that there isn't a problem.

    Apply belt sander to testicles.

    Also, just so you know, the gun market is expanding rapidly =D

    So enjoy that.


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