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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuuichi View Post
    You can not compare those countries to the USA. USA is a diverse country and is young compared to the others.We already have millions of guns in circulation, and millions more unknown. The countries you listed nipped the gun thing early before their places become over ran with it. In those countries citizens actually supported it to. USA was founded on the right to bear arms and it is unrealistic to suddenly ban/regulate guns with the millions out there.

    No other country has a diverse population of people as America does. Banning guns may solve the big shooting, and of course would only work if every single person who has a gun turns it in which is unrealistic, but crime would still be around it'll just be knives that are used so I guess we should ban those, but wait then it'll be stuff like hammer and crowbars so lets ban those...you see where I am going.

    Find me another country out there that is like America and has ban guns and is doing great and I will change my opinion. But there is none.
    Canada is just as diverse as America. We`re basically the same country, culturally. Our guns laws work fine for us, and is the closest in comparison to America.

    http://www.firearmstraining.ca/classes.htm

    http://www.canadianlawsite.ca/gunlaws.htm

    There is some info on Canadian gun laws.

    I never got the whole`If we don`t have guns then we won`t be able to prevent crime` argument. I never had to worry about my life being snuffed out or getting robbed because I don`t have a gun in Canada. Vigilantism is a crime, technically, so how does me having a gun keep crime down? If a criminal is going to shoot someone anyways, as has been inferenced by some of the pro-gun arguments, me having a gun isn`t going to stop anything. All it means is him, me, both of us, or more people are going to go down shooting in a blaze of glory.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morganator View Post
    At this point, if you're still advocating anti-gun measures, you're a traitor who deserves exile at the minimum and possibly death. I've exactly no more patience for anti-gun people. You're either a freedom-loving American or a hypocrite traitor. There is no in-between.


    I'm sorry but if you have a culture that thinks guns = freedom, then things are never going to change. I'm proud to be English and there is absolutely no reason for citizens to carry guns over here. I don't feel the "need" to protect myself.

    I live on a farm and own a shotgun and a rifle. I was brought up around guns and was taught from a very young age how dangerous they can be, and that guns need to be respected. They are great for pest control and good fun for shooting clay pigeons etc. That is MY culture that works fine for me.

    When I was about 10 my friend got shot in the eye with a BB gun. He was hospitalised and almost lost his eyesight. That was about the closest thing to a shooting that i've ever witnessed. lol

    All being said though, as someone else pointed out... If I moved to the states I would buy a gun just because I could. And after paying good money for it even being a law-abiding citizen, would find it hard handing it over should a ban become enforced.

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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    What better way to prove that than to pass the restriction law. If what you say is true then there will be no harm done. If it stops just one person or save a single life then it's worth it IMO. No harm done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lasombra View Post
    Canada is just as diverse as America. We`re basically the same country, culturally. Our guns laws work fine for us, and is the closest in comparison to America.

    http://www.firearmstraining.ca/classes.htm

    http://www.canadianlawsite.ca/gunlaws.htm

    There is some info on Canadian gun laws.

    I never got the whole`If we don`t have guns then we won`t be able to prevent crime` argument. I never had to worry about my life being snuffed out or getting robbed because I don`t have a gun in Canada. Vigilantism is a crime, technically, so how does me having a gun keep crime down? If a criminal is going to shoot someone anyways, as has been inferenced by some of the pro-gun arguments, me having a gun isn`t going to stop anything. All it means is him, me, both of us, or more people are going to go down shooting in a blaze of glory.
    I'd rather it be him, me, or both of us, rather than just me.




  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasombra View Post
    Canada is just as diverse as America. We`re basically the same country, culturally. Our guns laws work fine for us, and is the closest in comparison to America.

    http://www.firearmstraining.ca/classes.htm

    http://www.canadianlawsite.ca/gunlaws.htm

    There is some info on Canadian gun laws.

    I never got the whole`If we don`t have guns then we won`t be able to prevent crime` argument. I never had to worry about my life being snuffed out or getting robbed because I don`t have a gun in Canada. Vigilantism is a crime, technically, so how does me having a gun keep crime down? If a criminal is going to shoot someone anyways, as has been inferenced by some of the pro-gun arguments, me having a gun isn`t going to stop anything. All it means is him, me, both of us, or more people are going to go down shooting in a blaze of glory.
    I am not to familer with how the gun laws came to pass and what happen to the ones in circulation if any. Know where I can read about?
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuuichi View Post
    I am not to familer with how the gun laws came to pass and what happen to the ones in circulation if any. Know where I can read about?
    Sorry, I don't really know. I just quickly looked that up while at work so I had some info to add to this discussion. I think I read on one of those links that there was a grandfather clause for some of them to allow current owners to keep them but can't pass them on to other in a will.

    @FEAR: I'd rather leave the shooting to trained professionals. There is a reason why train police handle armed suspects in a certain way. Having untrained, trigger happy, hero making civilians try to take out a gunman will just add to the casualty list and chaos.

    This is an aside to this whole debate but if the 2nd amendment is so important for Americans, and it is preached as a way to keep the country safer, why not just actually make the country really safe and go full fascism? Put a cop on each street corner and you won't have to worry about criminals with guns. Or make it so the cops can bust gangs and criminal organizations easier. Change the laws so a SWAT team can just hit all the gang/mafia/crime syndicate places.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasombra View Post
    This is an aside to this whole debate but if the 2nd amendment is so important for Americans, and it is preached as a way to keep the country safer, why not just actually make the country really safe and go full fascism? Put a cop on each street corner and you won't have to worry about criminals with guns. Or make it so the cops can bust gangs and criminal organizations easier. Change the laws so a SWAT team can just hit all the gang/mafia/crime syndicate places.
    That misses the point, since you're taking away freedom for security. Gun owners want the freedom to protect themselves, especially against the government.

    It also helps, that yes, there is no correlation between increased gun ownership and increased crime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasombra View Post
    Canada is just as diverse as America. We`re basically the same country, culturally. Our guns laws work fine for us, and is the closest in comparison to America.

    http://www.firearmstraining.ca/classes.htm

    http://www.canadianlawsite.ca/gunlaws.htm

    There is some info on Canadian gun laws.

    I never got the whole`If we don`t have guns then we won`t be able to prevent crime` argument. I never had to worry about my life being snuffed out or getting robbed because I don`t have a gun in Canada. Vigilantism is a crime, technically, so how does me having a gun keep crime down? If a criminal is going to shoot someone anyways, as has been inferenced by some of the pro-gun arguments, me having a gun isn`t going to stop anything. All it means is him, me, both of us, or more people are going to go down shooting in a blaze of glory.
    Quote Originally Posted by the_jim View Post


    I'm sorry but if you have a culture that thinks guns = freedom, then things are never going to change. I'm proud to be English and there is absolutely no reason for citizens to carry guns over here. I don't feel the "need" to protect myself.

    I live on a farm and own a shotgun and a rifle. I was brought up around guns and was taught from a very young age how dangerous they can be, and that guns need to be respected. They are great for pest control and good fun for shooting clay pigeons etc. That is MY culture that works fine for me.

    When I was about 10 my friend got shot in the eye with a BB gun. He was hospitalised and almost lost his eyesight. That was about the closest thing to a shooting that i've ever witnessed. lol

    All being said though, as someone else pointed out... If I moved to the states I would buy a gun just because I could. And after paying good money for it even being a law-abiding citizen, would find it hard handing it over should a ban become enforced.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lasombra View Post
    Sorry, I don't really know. I just quickly looked that up while at work so I had some info to add to this discussion. I think I read on one of those links that there was a grandfather clause for some of them to allow current owners to keep them but can't pass them on to other in a will.

    @FEAR: I'd rather leave the shooting to trained professionals. There is a reason why train police handle armed suspects in a certain way. Having untrained, trigger happy, hero making civilians try to take out a gunman will just add to the casualty list and chaos.

    This is an aside to this whole debate but if the 2nd amendment is so important for Americans, and it is preached as a way to keep the country safer, why not just actually make the country really safe and go full fascism? Put a cop on each street corner and you won't have to worry about criminals with guns. Or make it so the cops can bust gangs and criminal organizations easier. Change the laws so a SWAT team can just hit all the gang/mafia/crime syndicate places.


    Do you guys really think about the implications of what you post? It doesn't seem like it.

    For the first 2 quoted posts, I'd like to know what you will do if you are confronted by a criminal?

    For the last quoted post: Um, because we don't live under an Authoritarian form of government?

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasombra View Post

    This is an aside to this whole debate but if the 2nd amendment is so important for Americans, and it is preached as a way to keep the country safer, why not just actually make the country really safe and go full fascism? Put a cop on each street corner and you won't have to worry about criminals with guns. Or make it so the cops can bust gangs and criminal organizations easier. Change the laws so a SWAT team can just hit all the gang/mafia/crime syndicate places.
    Well the cop thing on every corner is not realstic as it would cost way to much money. The second part I fully agree with and have been saying it for years. The gangs really became more of a problem when police starting losing more power by people putting up more and more red tape to do thier job because there was a few bad apples. How you think cops back in the days shut down the mob? They did stuff that was extreme but it needed to be done to stop them. Until people stop being so paranoid that every cop is out to get them, or the gov gives the ATF more power, or forms a new unit in cities where they have more power specifically for taking out gangs/drugs etc. and not anything else the gangs will continue thier steady growth as they have been in the last decade.
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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasombra View Post
    Sorry, I don't really know. I just quickly looked that up while at work so I had some info to add to this discussion. I think I read on one of those links that there was a grandfather clause for some of them to allow current owners to keep them but can't pass them on to other in a will.

    @FEAR: I'd rather leave the shooting to trained professionals. There is a reason why train police handle armed suspects in a certain way. Having untrained, trigger happy, hero making civilians try to take out a gunman will just add to the casualty list and chaos.

    This is an aside to this whole debate but if the 2nd amendment is so important for Americans, and it is preached as a way to keep the country safer, why not just actually make the country really safe and go full fascism? Put a cop on each street corner and you won't have to worry about criminals with guns. Or make it so the cops can bust gangs and criminal organizations easier. Change the laws so a SWAT team can just hit all the gang/mafia/crime syndicate places.
    Police officers don't just know when things are going to happen. Police don't protect citizens, that's not their job. How do you think it works? If someone comes to your home, breaks in, is armed with a gun... what do you do? Call the police obviously. I guess just hope for the best and wait for them to even get there?




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    This is a typical response from those who have never experienced a life threatening event like a break in..


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    Yeah, about four years ago, I was actually getting read for work; just out of the shower. I heard my back door being used. I thought it was my brother screwing with me at first. When I went to the door after putting some clothes on, it was a black male, with a very large knife. He was trying to pry the door open with it. As he started coming in, and I retreated to my room, he came in and was met with my .40. He took one step before he realized what he walked in to. He took one round in the abdomen, and tried getting away.

    He didn't make it too far. After he fell to the ground, I had already grabbed my radio when he turned away, and I called for an ambulance and let them know what happened. I hand-cuffed this guy and waited for the other officers and medical responders to get there. It took about ten mins to get to me.

    Just imagine had that been my wife only, or if I didn't even own a gun. Imagine if that had been your teenager at home, without a gun in the house, etc. C'mon. Reality check.




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    He took one step before he realized what he walked in to. He took one round in the abdomen, and tried getting away.
    Why didn't u shoot his knife off so no one would get hurt, and don't say it not possible cause I have seen it in the movies.

    He didn't make it too far. After he fell to the ground, I had already grabbed my radio when he turned away, and I called for an ambulance and let them know what happened. I hand-cuffed this guy and waited for the other officers and medical responders to get there. It took about ten mins to get to me.

    Just imagine had that been my wife only, or if I didn't even own a gun. Imagine if that had been your teenager at home, without a gun in the house, etc. C'mon. Reality check.
    dam, good thing u got that .40 S&W( Short and Weak) or that ten minutes would have felt like hours.

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    Noob had to use a knife to gain entry? All it needs is a merican express and doors open wide.

    p.s

    I have American express and knife proof doors and windows.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reasonable_doubt View Post
    Why didn't u shoot his knife off so no one would get hurt, and don't say it not possible cause I have seen it in the movies.



    dam, good thing u got that .40 S&W( Short and Weak) or that ten minutes would have felt like hours.
    I aimed for the knife.




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    Quote Originally Posted by the_jim View Post


    I'm sorry but if you have a culture that thinks guns = freedom, then things are never going to change. I'm proud to be English and there is absolutely no reason for citizens to carry guns over here. I don't feel the "need" to protect myself.

    I live on a farm and own a shotgun and a rifle. I was brought up around guns and was taught from a very young age how dangerous they can be, and that guns need to be respected. They are great for pest control and good fun for shooting clay pigeons etc. That is MY culture that works fine for me.

    When I was about 10 my friend got shot in the eye with a BB gun. He was hospitalised and almost lost his eyesight. That was about the closest thing to a shooting that i've ever witnessed. lol

    All being said though, as someone else pointed out... If I moved to the states I would buy a gun just because I could. And after paying good money for it even being a law-abiding citizen, would find it hard handing it over should a ban become enforced.
    Guns ensure you have freedom so I understand the assertion. You won't stand a chance if your government decides to come after you. I can't speak for anyone else but I'd rather have the chance to stand my ground no matter how futile or fleeting.

    New bit of information for everyone else.

    The files necessary for making a copy of the world's first fully 3-D printed gun have been taken down from the creator's website at the request of the U.S. State Department but are already available by other means.
    The Liberator, as the gun is called, is assembled from 16 pieces of plastic, all of which can be made using a 3-D printer and files downloaded from the Internet. Only the firing pin and a piece of metal to make the gun easily detectable must be found elsewhere and the bullets, of course.
    Since being released earlier this week, the 3-D models of the gun pieces have been downloaded over 100,000 times but a visit to Defcad.org, the site run by 3-D gun creator Cody Wilson, now shows this message:

    DEFCAD files are being removed from public access at the request of the US Department of Defense Trade Controls. Until further notice, the United States government claims control of the information.
    formation.
    The reason for the takedown is that the State Department's Office of Defense Trade Controls Compliance wants to check the files "for compliance with arms export control laws," according to a letter Defense Distributed provided to Forbes.
    Wilson, a law student, is federally licensed to manufacture and sell guns and gun parts, as long as they're not fully automatic. Not only is it legal for Wilson (or any licensed maker of firearms) to make the Liberator, but distributing its plans for others to make it is also legal, according to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. But because the files are being distributed outside United States borders, other, stricter regulations may come into play.
    Defense Distributed
    Two views of the 3-D model file comprising the Liberator's frame.

    If the goal was to stop the proliferation of the printed gun's component files, however, the takedown is already a failure. Supporters of the project are already setting up backups and distributing the files via other means, including BitTorrent, which requires no central server and cannot be shut down with a government request.
    Wilson, who has led the Defense Distributed project and been its public face over the last year, did not respond to inquiries from NBC News, but indicated to Forbes that he and the company intend to comply with all government requests. But he also said he hoped it would spark a conversation: "Is this a workable regulatory regime? Can there be defense trade control in the era of Internet and 3-D printing?"
    http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/go...ding-1C9869123

    What say you all?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morganator View Post
    At this point, if you're still advocating anti-gun measures, you're a traitor who deserves exile at the minimum and possibly death. I've exactly no more patience for anti-gun people. You're either a freedom-loving American or a hypocrite traitor. There is no in-between.
    This post demonstrates some very dangerous thinking. Being anti-gun does not make you a traitor. It simply makes you a person with an opinion -- though likely an ignorance or fear-based opinion. There's no need to label the opposing side like that, and demand they be reprimanded for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Just imagine had that been my wife only, or if I didn't even own a gun. Imagine if that had been your teenager at home, without a gun in the house, etc. C'mon. Reality check.
    About half a year ago, my aunt was home with her two kids (8 and 13), when a man came in through their back door with a knife. She ran to her bedroom and got the shotgun from under the bed, and blew out one of his knees with it in the hallway. Amazingly he didn't die, but it did render him essentially harmless in that moment. When I heard what had happened, all I could do was think about if she hadn't had that gun to protect herself and her kids.

    Now to be fair, he could have instead possessed a firearm rather than a knife (as a result of guns being more easily accessible here). But still: in that scenario my aunt owning that weapon helped give her a higher chance to remove the threat than if she hadn't had the gun at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    This post demonstrates some very dangerous thinking. Being anti-gun does not make you a traitor. It simply makes you a person with an opinion -- though likely an ignorance or fear-based opinion. There's no need to label the opposing side like that, and demand they be reprimanded for it.
    Why not? The anti-gun crowd wants to label the pro-gun crowd as terrorists, soulless, and $#@! knows all sorts of other things. People actively pushing for any ban on any firearms are traitors and deserve to be treated as such. My post only demonstrates dangerous thinking because it correctly labels these people for what they really are. Hypocrite traitors. This isn't a rant at you so try not to take it as such.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morganator View Post
    Why not? The anti-gun crowd wants to label the pro-gun crowd as terrorists, soulless, and $#@! knows all sorts of other things. People actively pushing for any ban on any firearms are traitors and deserve to be treated as such. My post only demonstrates dangerous thinking because it correctly labels these people for what they really are. Hypocrite traitors. This isn't a rant at you so try not to take it as such.
    All anti-gun people label their opponents as terrorists or soulless individuals? You can't say that's remotely accurate. In fact, I see that as being a very rare thing (as well as calling anti-gun people traitors or anything similar).

    I really have to question and be concerned of your mindset, where anyone expressing their opposing opinions is somehow a traitor. Yet this all remains in the face of you supporting firearms to protect freedoms, does it not? So really, who is the hypocrite and traitor here? The group of people merely being fearful or ignorant and expressing their opinions on a subject, or the man espousing the removal of rights to citizens for their opinions, searching for an authoritarian solution? I'm not trying to make this personal, but the answer appears clear to me. Indeed, what sort of free society is that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    All anti-gun people label their opponents as terrorists or soulless individuals? You can't say that's remotely accurate. In fact, I see that as being a very rare thing (as well as calling anti-gun people traitors or anything similar).

    I really have to question and be concerned of your mindset, where anyone expressing their opposing opinions is somehow a traitor. Yet this all remains in the face of you supporting firearms to protect freedoms, does it not? So really, who is the hypocrite and traitor here? The group of people merely being fearful or ignorant and expressing their opinions on a subject, or the man espousing the removal of rights to citizens for their opinions, searching for an authoritarian solution? I'm not trying to make this personal, but the answer appears clear to me. Indeed, what sort of free society is that?
    He is echoing the words of the one and only Alex Jones. If you don't know who he is, Google him and you will understand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    All anti-gun people label their opponents as terrorists or soulless individuals? You can't say that's remotely accurate. In fact, I see that as being a very rare thing (as well as calling anti-gun people traitors or anything similar).

    I really have to question and be concerned of your mindset, where anyone expressing their opposing opinions is somehow a traitor. Yet this all remains in the face of you supporting firearms to protect freedoms, does it not? So really, who is the hypocrite and traitor here? The group of people merely being fearful or ignorant and expressing their opinions on a subject, or the man espousing the removal of rights to citizens for their opinions, searching for an authoritarian solution? I'm not trying to make this personal, but the answer appears clear to me. Indeed, what sort of free society is that?
    It's not the opinion that bothers me but acting on them to push for gun bans. They're seeking to take away the means by which an individual can protect himself/herself from criminals and government. They're entitled to their opinion until they infringe on my rights. Someone who pushes to remove that right from others is the worst kind of person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morganator View Post
    Guns ensure you have freedom so I understand the assertion. You won't stand a chance if your government decides to come after you. I can't speak for anyone else but I'd rather have the chance to stand my ground no matter how futile or fleeting.

    New bit of information for everyone else.



    http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/go...ding-1C9869123

    What say you all?
    Irritates the piss out of me that the federal government can just simply say "lol takedown" and try to remove it. Jesus.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuuichi View Post
    Well the cop thing on every corner is not realstic as it would cost way to much money. The second part I fully agree with and have been saying it for years. The gangs really became more of a problem when police starting losing more power by people putting up more and more red tape to do thier job because there was a few bad apples. How you think cops back in the days shut down the mob? They did stuff that was extreme but it needed to be done to stop them. Until people stop being so paranoid that every cop is out to get them, or the gov gives the ATF more power, or forms a new unit in cities where they have more power specifically for taking out gangs/drugs etc. and not anything else the gangs will continue thier steady growth as they have been in the last decade.
    @Yuuichi: The US has one of the biggest military's in the world so you could easily have a solider on every block in some of the most dangerous neighbourhoods in the country. They are already being paid so I am sure they would rather be on patrol in Los Angeles or New York than Iraq.

    @Matrix 2: Why does my post not seem like I thought about it? Of course you don`t live in an authoritarian country, but the point I was trying to make is what is more important, guns or safety? Reducing crime to insignificant levels is easy, so, so easy. But that requires living under a government with rules in place that cares more about safety than doing anything you please.

    As to what I would do if confronted by a criminal, I am assuming you mean if someone tried to break into my house? Under that situation I would call the cops and then do nothing. Why would I provoke him or her? If I let them just take what they want to steal they are less likely to hurt me. It is why cashiers are trained to just give the money in a cash register and not be a hero.

    @Vulgotha: No, I have been lucky and have not been in a life threatening event like a break-in or anything of the sort.

    @FEAR: Why didn`t you just kill him? Why not take it to the next logical step and get rid of a criminal off the streets permanently without clogging up the health care and legal system?


    A lot of what is said with the anti-gun control side is `what if`, `what if`, `what if`. The sad fact is if a person has the intentions to kill you then you having a gun is not going to save you. That person is going to kill you, or seriously mess you up if they fail. `What if someone breaks into your house?` Well, I guessed I`ll take that risk. `What if someone is going to rape you/your whoever` I guess I`ll have to take the chance. `What if someone is going to kidnap your child or whoever` I guess I`m an easy target.

    But why not take it to the next logical step. Why is the `home` the danger zone. Why is it the home anyone only talks about. How many people with a gun carry it in full view EVERYWHERE? (Since I heard that it is legal to do so in the US). I mean, if I am going to get raped, robbed, kidnapped, or murdered in my home, why is it less likely to do so anywhere else? If everyone is carrying an AK in full view everywhere then everyone knows not to mess with anyone.

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    It shows. You have a very rosey outlook of the world and government in particular.

    Would it shock you to know that police cause more collateral deaths than private citizens exercising their right to bear arms to defend themselves?


    Don't think that just because the police are trained in the use of firearms that they are less likely to kill an innocent person. A University of Chicago Study revealed that in 1993 approximately 700,000 police killed 330 innocent individuals, while approximately 250,000,000 private citizens only killed 30 innocent people. Do the math. That's a per capita rate for the police, of almost 4000 times higher than the population in general. OK, that is a little misleading. Let's just include the 80,000,000 gun owning citizens. Now the police are down to only a 1200 times higher accidental shooting rate than the gun-owning population in general.


    That still sounds high. So let's look at it in a different light. According to a study byNewsweek magazine, only 2% of civilian shootings involve an innocent person being shot (not killed). The error rate for police is 11%. What this means is that you are more than 5 times more likely to be accidentally shot by a policeman than by an armed citizen. But, when you consider that citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals as do police every year, it means that, per capita, you are more than 11 times more likely to be accidentally shot by a policeman than by an armed citizen. That is as low as I can get that number.


    This is not meant to be an indictment of the police. In fact, because police often live on the edge, they naturally tend to shoot first and ask questions later. Although they are trained to repress this instinct, it does not always work, as evidenced by the number of innocent people killed by police. Also, since they are generally better marksmen, they tend to kill, rather than wound or totally miss their target.


    The Kleck study shows that police shoot and kill around 600 criminals each year. Yet the University of Chicago study shows that police killed 330 innocent individualsin 1993. That means that for every two criminals killed by police, one innocent citizen is killed by police. Although I have the greatest respect for the police and how they must respond under pressure, I think that I would much rather trust an armed populace.
    Edit: rereading this I want to clarify, I'm not trying to belittle you. Just that you place the utmost faith in the government and your police. What I am saying is, in the United States, police kill more innocent people by accident than civilians do when they are involved in shootings of self defense.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 05-10-2013 at 06:28.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasombra View Post
    As to what I would do if confronted by a criminal, I am assuming you mean if someone tried to break into my house? Under that situation I would call the cops and then do nothing. Why would I provoke him or her? If I let them just take what they want to steal they are less likely to hurt me. It is why cashiers are trained to just give the money in a cash register and not be a hero.
    LOL u think a criminal who just broke into ur house need to be provoked before they stomp a mudd hole in ur face?

    What if u were with ur wife and she has panties on and the criminal want more than just money, are u going to stand there and watch and wait for the police? But than again the criminal might be $#@!sexual and not want ur female companion...he might want u How about if u had two daughter both 16 years old and two guys break into ur house are u telling me u gonna dial 911 and do nothing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by reasonable_doubt View Post
    LOL u think a criminal who just broke into ur house need to be provoked before they stomp a mudd hole in ur face?

    What if u were with ur wife and she has panties on and the criminal want more than just money, are u going to stand there and watch and wait for the police? But than again the criminal might be $#@!sexual and not want ur female companion...he might want u How about if u had two daughter both 16 years old and two guys break into ur house are u telling me u gonna dial 911 and do nothing?
    @Reasonable Doubt: Why are not all the cashiers who are robbed and don`t have a gun not dead? Why? Why don`t they have a mudd hole stomped in their face?

    Why have I not been raped or murdered yet? This is a serious question. I have no gun, not even a BB Gun, and where are the UZI/Shotgun/Knife/Butcher Blade/Sword/Anything carrying criminals to knock down my door. This entire debate is based solely on `what if` and will always be based on `what if` You choose to believe that eventually someone is going to try and mess you up in some way. I choose to believe that no one is going to mess me up in some way. Owning a gun for the purpose of self-defence is solely about those two choices. I have chosen to live my life without a gun, have lived in 3 different countries, and have survived so far.

    @Vulgotha: I place no faith in anything, simply trying to point out alternate ways of safety without needing a gun, or logical leaps where pro-guns for everyone fail to take into account or want to go in that direction.

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