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    PlayStation 4 vs Xbox One (Price)

    So now we have seen both consoles' specs with PS4 being the more powerful, what are your predictions for the pricing?

    I think XBO might actually be more expensive since Kinect 2 will be bundled with every single one, that's at least $100 right there. Dunno if Sony is bundling the new EyeToy/PS Eye but it won't be as expensive as the Kinect 2.

    Sony have said they plan to profit off the hardware from the get go (which is a first aside from the PSV), so it depends whether or not MS want to make profits out of the gate the same or take a loss like Nintendo with the Wii U.

    I think:

    PS4: $399
    XBO: $449

    MS will probably want it to be priced the same so may sell at a loss though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronSOLDIER View Post
    So now we have seen both consoles' specs with PS4 being the more powerful, what are your predictions for the pricing?

    I think XBO might actually be more expensive since Kinect 2 will be bundled with every single one, that's at least $100 right there. Dunno if Sony is bundling the new EyeToy/PS Eye but it won't be as expensive as the Kinect 2.

    Sony have said they plan to profit off the hardware from the get go (which is a first aside from the PSV), so it depends whether or not MS want to make profits out of the gate the same or take a loss like Nintendo with the Wii U.

    I think:

    PS4: $399
    XBO: $449

    MS will probably want it to be priced the same so may sell at a loss though.
    Wait..when did we see Xbox console specs?

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    PlayStation 4 vs Xbox One (Price)

    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Wait..when did we see Xbox console specs?
    It's similar, but not as powerful.


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    Didn't you watch the stream? lol

    See here for recaps on both:
    http://www.psu.com/a019489/PS4-specs...AM-graphics-an

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Wait..when did we see Xbox console specs?
    I don't think we have seen the full specs yet....lol Judging by Major nelsons little chat with the architecture team it seems xbox may be a bit more powerful than we first thought.



    Quote Originally Posted by AaronSOLDIER View Post
    Didn't you watch the stream? lol
    Quote Originally Posted by AaronSOLDIER View Post

    Those aren't the full specs...lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronSOLDIER View Post
    Didn't you watch the stream? lol

    See here for recaps on both:
    http://www.psu.com/a019489/PS4-specs...AM-graphics-an
    MS hasn't confirmed anything regarding the internal structures of the CPU/GPU other than they a modified and customized.

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    Considering that the ps3 was higher in price and sold more YOY than the 360, it'd be a huge mistake for MS to price the x1 higher than ps4.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Two4DaMoney View Post
    Considering that the ps3 was higher in price and sold more YOY than the 360, it'd be a huge mistake for MS to price the x1 higher than ps4.
    Dude, you are suggesting MS don't make huge mistakes, did you just watch that conference?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Two4DaMoney View Post
    Considering that the ps3 was higher in price and sold more YOY than the 360, it'd be a huge mistake for MS to price the x1 higher than ps4.
    That just means people will work more hours to buy one....lol

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    They are both going to be ~$500 (without subsidy). Guaranteed to be more than $400. Mark my words.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Dude, you are suggesting MS don't make huge mistakes, did you just watch that conference?
    I would edit this clip to fit the conference if I had enough skills



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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Wait..when did we see Xbox console specs?
    Dude it was at the conference. EVERYTHING VGLEAKS SAID WAS LEGIT.

    Check out my posting history for details.

    Most important thing you should take away from it: 1.2TF GPU (the engineers confirmed it at the architectural conference).

    Literally, the time for denying this crap is past.

    1. Jaguar CPU (8 cores)
    2. 8GB of RAM (won't state what type of memory, hinthinthint)
    3. Developers\Engineers at the conference with Nelson said the GPU does "does 768 processes per cycle" = 1.2TF.

    ^ MS didn't say number 3 or even TALK about the GPU at the "reveal event", the MS architects let it slip during conversation.


    Again:

    This was FROM the Engineers at MS own mouth during the follow up conference with Nelson and was further vetted by Bkillian on B3D (who was an ex MS dev):


    "768 operations per clock on the GPU (from twitch) so 1.2TF confirmed."

    Why are you still fighting this?

    The only good new from a hardware perspective is that the ESRAM saved the day bandwidth wise and provides "over 200gb\s" of bandwidth (same conference).




    Last edited by Vulgotha; 05-22-2013 at 04:31.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Dude it was at the conference. EVERYTHING VGLEAKS SAID WAS LEGIT.

    Check out my posting history for details.

    Most important thing you should take away from it: 1.2TF GPU (the engineers confirmed it at the architectural conference)
    Oh Ive read, it I have yet to see any specs regarding internal caches on the texture units(not the esram) or the actual speed of the chips (you are assuming 800mhz but that has not been at all confirmed)

    Didn't read anywhere on VGleaks about the 200gb/s bandwidth they are getting between the silicon either.
    Last edited by mynd; 05-22-2013 at 04:33.

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    How much does it really matter what the clock speed is? It's 1.2TF.

    The clock is irrelevant, that's the figure they quoted. And given (99.999999% sure of this) that the majority of that performance disparity is largely due to the absence of 6 CU's (12 total for XBO vs 18 for PS4) messing with clocks isn't going to do a whole lot.

    So VGleaks got the bandwidth figure wrong, big deal. They've gotten the overwhelming majority right so far, give them some credit where it's due.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 05-22-2013 at 04:34.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    How much does it really matter what the clock speed is? It's 1.2TF.

    The clock is irrelevant, that's the figure they quoted. And given (99.999999% sure of this) that the majority of that performance disparity is largely due to the absence of 6 CU's (12 total for XBO vs 18 for PS4) messing with clicks isn't going to do a whole lot.
    PMSL, how can the clock be irrelevant? Jebus!

    768 ops/clock * (1 mul + 1 add) * 800 MHz = 1.2 TFLOP

    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    So VGleaks got the bandwidth figure wrong, big deal. They've gotten the overwhelming majority right so far, give them some credit where it's due.
    They may not have got it wrong, it may have been the speed due to cycle timings at the time.
    Last edited by mynd; 05-22-2013 at 04:39.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    PMSL, how can the clock be irrelevant? Jebus!

    768 ops/clock * (1 mul + 1 add) * 800 MHz = 1.2 TFLOP
    Right, but what I'm saying is the raw output isn't going to go anywhere. They're not going to bridge that 600Gflop+ between it and PS4, not on clock adjustments alone.

    The missing CU's will ensure that.

    That's what I was trying to convey, like it or not this thing is as anemic as we were informed it would be months ago. I don't think MS is going to crank up the clocks on this thing massively for a variety of reasons we both know all too well.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Right, but what I'm saying is the raw output isn't going to go anywhere. They're not going to bridge that 600Gflop+ between it and PS4, not on clock adjustments alone.

    The missing CU's will ensure that.

    That's what I was trying to convey, like it or not this thing is as anemic as we were informed it would be months ago. I don't think MS is going to crank up the clocks on this thing massively for a variety of reasons we both know all too well.
    You do know in terms of "raw output" the PS4 cant process any more triangles per second right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    You do know in terms of "raw output" the PS4 cant process any more triangles per second right?
    You do know that the majority of games aren't vertex bound, but shader right? =p

    Or at least so I heard.

    You're splitting hairs here, you know what I mean.

    Edit: Sigh, I'm gonna back off. I was all excited for this reveal and holding out hope but man I was super let down. So I'm just gonna refrain from commenting for a few days to chill out. Super disappointed.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 05-22-2013 at 05:00.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    You do know that the majority of games aren't vertex bound, but shader right? =p

    Or at least so I heard.

    You're splitting hairs here, you know what I mean.

    Edit: Sigh, I'm gonna back off. I was all excited for this reveal and holding out hope but man I was super let down. So I'm just gonna refrain from commenting for a few days to chill out. Super disappointed.
    I know that your probably right, but there are a few things they mention on the tech panel that has not been fully revealed. Just know thats not a standard GCN chip. Its very difficult to understand it's full performance, as a lot of it is running non game related stuff, and there appears to be a lot of dedicated silicon doing stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    You do know that the majority of games aren't vertex bound, but shader right? =p

    Or at least so I heard.

    You're splitting hairs here, you know what I mean.

    Edit: Sigh, I'm gonna back off. I was all excited for this reveal and holding out hope but man I was super let down. So I'm just gonna refrain from commenting for a few days to chill out. Super disappointed.
    Not sure why you are so surprised. From the leaks we definitely knew that the next xbox would not be more "powerful" than the PS4. We knew Kinect would play a bigger role so it could eat into the bugdet which would limit how much MS could spend on the rest of the hardware.

    I think you are dwelling too much on paper stats. Microsoft would have talked to many developers, they all came to an agreement on what would work best for the xbox one. (remember how they dropped a billion ~ last minute to double the 360's ram due to Epic?) While there is a net deficit, I find it hard to believe the actual difference will be as large as the paper numbers would suggest. Microsoft isn't stupid. They learned with the original xbox that having the most powerful console didn't really matter and was more money than it was worth to hold that mantle. As long as their console was competitive (and I do believe the xbox one is) they would be fine. That strategy worked very well for sony with the ps2 (and to a lesser extent the ps1).

    And then there is this:

    http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/21/435...loud-computing

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    Cloud computing is dependent upon latency and a constant internet connection.. I'm not too sold on its utility.

    The thing is, I know MS isn't stupid. I just think they're misguided. They want to center themselves as an entertainment center\DVR which can also play games and they were willing to make the necessary concessions to get there.

    I put my faith in the leaks, but I was still hoping for some "Surprise" reveal that would put the Xbox on more equal footing with the PS4. Better for everybody.


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    Found this on a forum today. I don't know how accurate it is or the source.

    PS4

    8GB GDDR5 RAM @ 176GB/Sec
    1 Jaguar 8 Core CPU @ 1.6GBZ 20GB/Sec bus
    GPU
    Hard drive
    BD Rom x 6 speed
    USB 3
    1.8 Tflop 32 BIT GPU with 176gb/sec for graphics bandwidth
    3 billion transistors

    Xbox One

    8GB DDR3 Ram 68GB/Sec
    32MB SRam @102 GB/S
    4 GPU Accelerators @ 25.4GB/Sec
    1 Jaguar 8 Core CPU @ 1.6GBZ 2 x 20GB/Sec bus
    1 Custom Audio DSP
    1.2 Tflop 64 BIT GPU with 195.4 gb/sec for graphics bandwidth
    Hard drive
    "Custom" BD Rom
    5 billion transistors

    http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/69108...6248581?page=4

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    This is all old stuff and the list is incomplete. Doesn't include the PS4 dedicated silicon for specific tasks like audio, video compression\decompression, or etc.

    Otherwise it's all right.

    Edit: not sure how they're calculating the bandwidth figures for the Xbox GPU though. It's likely it's over 200GB\s due to the ESRAM but exact figures are a big "?".


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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Cloud computing is dependent upon latency and a constant internet connection.. I'm not too sold on its utility.

    The thing is, I know MS isn't stupid. I just think they're misguided. They want to center themselves as an entertainment center\DVR which can also play games and they were willing to make the necessary concessions to get there.

    I put my faith in the leaks, but I was still hoping for some "Surprise" reveal that would put the Xbox on more equal footing with the PS4. Better for everybody.
    Well they can only go by their history:

    Original xbox that catered to the hardcore gamers = failure for them.

    360 which catered to everybody = Success for them.

    So based upon that it is hard to blame them for not making a console as gaming centric as the original xbox.

    I wouldn't be surprised of kinect is a draw for the many wii customers that are disappointing with the wii U but still want a console. Up to 100 million more customers is a lucrative reason to bother with Kinect among the other non core gaming features.

    Plus I have a feeling that this time Kinect will actually be used to improve core games substantially rather than just being a novelty peripheral for shovelware.

    Anyways, it's all up to the developers. It they become lazy, the hardware power becomes irrelevant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    This is all old stuff and the list is incomplete. Doesn't include the PS4 dedicated silicon for specific tasks like audio, video compression\decompression, or etc.

    Otherwise it's all right.

    Edit: not sure how they're calculating the bandwidth figures for the Xbox GPU though. It's likely it's over 200GB\s due to the ESRAM but exact figures are a big "?".
    Like i said before there could be things that we don't know about xbox one yet.

    AMD spokesman Travis Williams told PCMag that while "there are similarities about the APUs you can find based on data that's public from Sony and Microsoft," AMD was "not in a position to disclose additional hardware specs."
    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817...069TX1K0001121

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