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  1. #26
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    Alright, let's stop fighting. The Braid developer merely made a vague statement. Of course it's not going to be that big of a difference.

    Especially not in multiplats. Might have more objects and AA/draw distance or details but developers generally like to keep a locked frame rate and they'd rather go for the details than the frame rate anyway.

    I think the real difference will shine in exclusives...because that's where everything is fair and square.

  2. #27
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    Well we know Drive Club is 30fps it will be interesting to see if Forza 5 can hit the magic 60fps! It would kind of make a mockery of the Braid guy.

    Also with Battlefield 4 coming out it will be interesting to see if one runs at 60 and another at 30.

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    The difference is not large enough for that. You need nearly twice the grunt to run double the framerate and the PS4 GPU is only 50% faster. It would be nice to see some games run with unlocked framerates on PS4 though ala GOW

    I'm not really sure why Blow is talking about the theoretical max performance anyway, he makes small indie games which aren't going tax either console.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flaw3d Genius View Post
    Well we know Drive Club is 30fps it will be interesting to see if Forza 5 can hit the magic 60fps! It would kind of make a mockery of the Braid guy.

    Also with Battlefield 4 coming out it will be interesting to see if one runs at 60 and another at 30.
    Well the Forza 5 footage they showed was 30fps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaw3d Genius View Post
    Well we know Drive Club is 30fps it will be interesting to see if Forza 5 can hit the magic 60fps! It would kind of make a mockery of the Braid guy.

    Also with Battlefield 4 coming out it will be interesting to see if one runs at 60 and another at 30.
    Considering the launch titles only had access to half the ram due to they didn't know about the 8GB gddr5 till we did could easily up the fps if they wanted to but some companies want 30



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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyn View Post


    Well the Forza 5 footage they showed was 30fps.
    That's a disaster if they cannot get that locked 60fps that Forza is famous for!

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaw3d Genius View Post
    Also with Battlefield 4 coming out it will be interesting to see if one runs at 60 and another at 30.
    chances are Dice will use the extra compute units on the PS4 to do physics simulations. ergo negating PS4's chances of 60 in favour of more realistic destruction simulations....after all, thats what the extra compute units are there for.

    unless you use keyboard and mouse 60fps in kind of a waste imo. likewise for racing sims; unless you use a dedicated racing wheel. those extra frames don't really amount to much when you're using a clunky controller.
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post
    chances are Dice will use the extra compute units on the PS4 to do physics simulations. ergo negating PS4's chances of 60 in favour of more realistic destruction simulations....after all, thats what the extra compute units are there for.

    unless you use keyboard and mouse 60fps in kind of a waste imo. likewise for racing sims; unless you use a dedicated racing wheel. those extra frames don't really amount to much when you're using a clunky controller.
    Haha you guys are hilarious when defending 30fps...Racers and Shooters 60fps makes a huge difference with the pad.

    Go play Horizon then jump on to F4 and notice how much more responsive the car control's and how much nicer everything runs.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaw3d Genius View Post
    Haha you guys are hilarious when defending 30fps...Racers and Shooters 60fps makes a huge difference with the pad.

    Go play Horizon then jump on to F4 and notice how much more responsive the car control's and how much nicer everything runs.
    what's there to defend? o_O

    games will be made at 30fps whether you like it or not. its not your choice to make.

    devs of racers and shooters will still target 60fps next gen. no one here is saying that 30fps will become an enforced standard. but like this gen, the premium paid to render at that speed is something many devs will take into consideration when they decide the overall pace of their game.

    30fps allows the developer to appease the widest range of audience. those that favour 60fps either game on the PC or fall into an extremely small minority on consoles.

    the OP was clear that the PS4 has the better chance of running multiplatform titles at 60fps if the developers so chose.
    to that end, what is the point of your argument? are you simply dragging this out for reasons unapparent?
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaw3d Genius View Post
    Ok sure, Who would want to create a shooter at 60fps or a racing game at 60fps
    you must not be a pc gamer if you were you'd know games run perfectly fine in the 80-120fps rate. Id love console games especially shooters to run above 60fps.
    "I think all those developers who are saying, "We donít want to do a PS3 game," or "Itís really difficult to do it," should shut up and make their games. If you have time to complain about it, then you should be spending your time working on getting the most from the hardware."

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaw3d Genius View Post
    Haha you guys are hilarious when defending 30fps...
    The point everyone is trying to make is that it doesn't matter how powerful the hardware is. The PS4 could be 10X more powerful. Developers still decide on how to allocate the power of the hardware.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by hood View Post
    you must not be a pc gamer if you were you'd know games run perfectly fine in the 80-120fps rate. Id love console games especially shooters to run above 60fps.
    Im not a PC gamer, But yeah the more FPS the better!

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaw3d Genius View Post
    Well we know Drive Club is 30fps it will be interesting to see if Forza 5 can hit the magic 60fps! It would kind of make a mockery of the Braid guy.

    Also with Battlefield 4 coming out it will be interesting to see if one runs at 60 and another at 30.
    You clearly do not understand this concept.

    While I don't think the difference is going to be in frame rates as that's likely the last thing a developer goes for, it's stupid to compare two different games because they both had different design, skill involved and the target.

    One better way would be to look at multiplats, which again, a very low chance as like i said, developers don't like to raise fps before putting in more details. It might boast a better frame rate, more stable in firefights or action but they won't specifically go for the 60fps without a design change. Much more difficult to go up than to add details.

    So even if it's possible to go from 30fps to 60fps, it's not going to happen.

    The best way would be to look at the games that are exclusive to both consoles, except it also has to depend what the developer is going for and what they're known for. Evolution generally does a great job but they're not masters in skill.

    So you're not going to get a clear picture. Now, PD showing GT7 would be a much better comparison between Forza 5.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    You clearly do not understand this concept.

    While I don't think the difference is going to be in frame rates as that's likely the last thing a developer goes for, it's stupid to compare two different games because they both had different design, skill involved and the target.

    One better way would be to look at multiplats, which again, a very low chance as like i said, developers don't like to raise fps before putting in more details. It might boast a better frame rate, more stable in firefights or action but they won't specifically go for the 60fps without a design change. Much more difficult to go up than to add details.

    So even if it's possible to go from 30fps to 60fps, it's not going to happen.

    The best way would be to look at the games that are exclusive to both consoles, except it also has to depend what the developer is going for and what they're known for. Evolution generally does a great job but they're not masters in skill.

    So you're not going to get a clear picture. Now, PD showing GT7 would be a much better comparison between Forza 5.
    While I get what you're saying here, I do believe that you're likely to see a difference in framerates between multiplatform titles than you are to see more effects, etc. We've seen this in the current generation, at least early on. Remember how some titles like Madden ran at 60fps on the Xbox but only 30 fps on the PS3? No other art assets, etc. were changed. This is because additional effects, lighting or objects are additional assets and take more resources to implement. Of course this depends as well on the game engine itself as to the difficulty, but as we've seen, it's more likely that you would see a framerate change than you would see one title with additional art and/or effect assets baked in. You might see that in a a game that's been developed for one platform that can handle more because in some cases it might be easier to just reduce the number of assets in a title in order to make it run well on a certain platform. Framerate is often tied to memory however. At least that was a good part of the issue with Madden which resulted in one of those 30fps vs. 60fps situations. Just my two cents. There's definitely a lot more involved than flipping a switch when you talk about changing framerates or adding/subtracting effects and art assets, that's for sure! Good discussion!

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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by jphuff View Post
    While I get what you're saying here, I do believe that you're likely to see a difference in framerates between multiplatform titles than you are to see more effects, etc. We've seen this in the current generation, at least early on. Remember how some titles like Madden ran at 60fps on the Xbox but only 30 fps on the PS3? No other art assets, etc. were changed. This is because additional effects, lighting or objects are additional assets and take more resources to implement. Of course this depends as well on the game engine itself as to the difficulty, but as we've seen, it's more likely that you would see a framerate change than you would see one title with additional art and/or effect assets baked in. You might see that in a a game that's been developed for one platform that can handle more because in some cases it might be easier to just reduce the number of assets in a title in order to make it run well on a certain platform. Framerate is often tied to memory however. At least that was a good part of the issue with Madden which resulted in one of those 30fps vs. 60fps situations. Just my two cents. There's definitely a lot more involved than flipping a switch when you talk about changing framerates or adding/subtracting effects and art assets, that's for sure! Good discussion!
    I agree with you and I think it's dependent on how the development was done. So if you already made it for the PS4, yes, you'll get a lower frame rate and likely less objects too.

    But if you're making it for both, you'll likely just add more objects to the one with more power or add a higher resolution first, before going the fps way. just my opinion of course, of what I've noticed but i definitely get what you're talking about and have seen that happen too.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    The point everyone is trying to make is that it doesn't matter how powerful the hardware is. The PS4 could be 10X more powerful. Developers still decide on how to allocate the power of the hardware.
    Yep, 60FPS games were done on PS3 so obviously PS4 can handle it.
    It'll be up to devs if they want to use resources on that or incorporate something better.
    I don't notice the difference so it doesn't bother me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaw3d Genius View Post
    "might"

    Killzone runs at 30fps at thats an exclusive and the same again with Drive Club 30fps, If inhouse devs are really struggling for 60fps i cannot see how multiplat devs will get games running 60fps on PS4 only
    You don't understand how these things work. Exclusive is very different to multiplatform. In the case of multiplatform games, when making a game, devs have to target the lowest common denominator. In this case, it's the XBone. At that point, they can either target 30 or 60 fps (cod for example). Now, because these new consoles are almost identical architecturally, it's very easy to port from one another. And because PS4 is roughly 50% more powerful they can either run the same game at more framerate (60vs30) or add in more effects/increase native res/better AA etc. and keep it at 30vs30.

  17. #42
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    Multiplats most likely won't be running at a higher fps. They "could" be running but I think they would opt out for more details and such first.

    In cases where they don't wanna change game assets or it's a port from the 360, then I could see it running at a higher fps.

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    As much as I want this, I doubt it will happen. Developers always like to use extra power to make better looking games for the better platform. I mean we seriously can't even get 60fps PS2 HD ports for crying out loud. It's saddening these console devs don't see the pure benefit of having 60fps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    As much as I want this, I doubt it will happen. Developers always like to use extra power to make better looking games for the better platform. I mean we seriously can't even get 60fps PS2 HD ports for crying out loud. It's saddening these console devs don't see the pure benefit of having 60fps.
    That's because they'd have to code the game again. It really depends on how much time you spend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jphuff View Post
    Remember how some titles like Madden ran at 60fps on the Xbox but only 30 fps on the PS3?
    That's a good point. I forgot about that.

    Since the PS3 and 360 were extremely close in power, and EA had to halve the frame-rate of one version, that makes Jonathan Blow's prediction seem more likely.

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