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    Retail sources detail how pre-owned sales will work with Xbox One

    I have no problem with this.


    http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/publi...retail/0116137


    A gamer walks into a retailer and hands over the game they wish to sell. This will only be possible at retailers who have agreed to Microsoft’s T&Cs and more importantly integrated Microsoft’s cloud-based Azure pre-owned system into its own.

    The game is then registered as having been trade-in on Microsoft’s system. The consumer who handed it over will subsequently see the game wiped from their account – hence the until now ambiguous claim from Phil Harrison that the Xbox One would have to ‘check in’ to Microsoft’s servers every 24 hours.

    The retailer can then sell the pre-owned game at whatever price they like, although as part of the system the publisher of the title in question will automatically receive a percentage cut of the sale. As will Microsoft. The retailer will pocket the rest.
    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?"
    --Kaz Hirai, CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment

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    Quote Originally Posted by X2 View Post
    I have no problem with this.
    That's seems....almost sensible....

    Question is still about lending it to a friend, if a similar "lend" function can be approved by the owner, then sounds fine by me.
    Last edited by mynd; 05-24-2013 at 10:45.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    That's seem....almost sensible....

    Question is still about lending it to a friend, if a similar "lend" function can be approved by the owner, then sounds fine by me.
    On Used Games


    GamesBeat: There’s been a lot of chatter on particular controversial subjects leading up to this. People want to know about used games, about backward compatibility, and about the constant connection. What are some of the facts on those? Can you play used games on the Xbox One? Do you have to pay a fee?

    Harrison: Just like today, if you have a game disc that you buy from the store, you can play that game. The game is now installed to the hard drive. Any user who is associated with that Xbox One can play that game. I can give that game disc to my son and he can go and take it to another machine inside the house and play it on that machine. Just like today, only one of us can play it at any one time.

    The difference, though — the benefit of Xbox One is that that data can roam with me. I can go to my friend’s house. I can log in as myself into his machine. I can then play that game on his machine, and while I’m logged in, he can play it as well.

    GamesBeat: Do you bring your disc with you, or could you use his disc?

    Harrison: Doesn’t matter, yeah. If I bring my disc with me and I leave the bits on his hard drive, but he wants to play the game, he can buy the game — just like today. But in this instance, the bits were already on his hard drive, so it’s an instant switch-out. We will have a solution — and we’re not talking about the details today but just to take the angst out of this — that allows a user to trade that game back in and to give up the right to play that game.there's more questions in the article so give it a read.
    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?"
    --Kaz Hirai, CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment

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    So what happens if these activations servers are shut down or go offline??

    Will it be even possible to play Xbox One games in 5 years?

    Sounds like a load of bull$#@! to me. I'll be voting with my wallet

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    I wouldn't be surprised if Sony does the same or something similar.


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    Does this mean each disc is unique?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkVincent07 View Post
    So what happens if these activations servers are shut down or go offline??

    Will it be even possible to play Xbox One games in 5 years?

    Sounds like a load of bull$#@! to me. I'll be voting with my wallet


    "What happens if Live get shut down"
    No more mulitplayer, I'm voting with my wallet....

    <sighs> I'm not a fan of these things but really that's pretty lame.
    Its tied to you XBL account.

  8. #8
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    Could be worse, but it does raise some questions, and if Sony follows they will apply to them as well.


    1) Second hand sellers will increase the price to consumers or cut the amount given in exchange for games to compensate for the extra portion that MS and the Publisher get. I would expect Gamestop second hand discs to be far less of a deal in future, on one side or the other. To the point where buying second hand might not be worth it.

    2) If any reseller gets into a dispute with MS over the amounts involved in each transaction expect this feature to get a bit weird. You could find yourself still licensed to games that you have traded in, or Gamestop may be forced to stop selling second hand games out right until resolved. Expect this to happen eventually.

    3) Still more flexible than a full digital distribution set up which will end second hand sales period.

    4) Not sure why MS deserves anything from the transaction, they've already been paid their licensing fee by the publisher and their maintenance costs are paid by Live subscriptions, which I would not be surprised to either gain more tiers or go up in price. Not at surprised they've come up with a mechanism to double dip.

    5) Curious if MS is doing this alone, would seem to me that it would work far better for them if Sony and perhaps Nintendo where in on the same basic concept, that way gamers couldn't escape it.

    6) If Sony isn't in on it, I would not be to surprised to see some publisher lead approach that does the same thing essentially.

    7) I'm not a fan of any additional points of failure, every extra step added is one more that can go wrong in some fashion. Tying all your games to a remote server might be convenient, on the other hand it could be a complete nightmare. It could be the result of hardware failure, software failure, hackers, etc. But worst of all, this would give MS a lot of potential control over gamers, MS already bans people permanently from Live for violations, imagine them turning off all your games for an infraction.

    They better have some good mechanism for wiping an Xbone or resetting the hardware account or you'll have real issues if you want to sell the hardware.

    9) Personally I'd prefer to be in a position where they could go to a full digital distribution system now, but only if it came with a commensurate decrease in new game prices. I generally don't buy second hand games, and I don't sell games.

    10) How is this going to affect services like Gamefly? At the very least it will add additional complications to the process. Losing a game in the mail will look worse than it does now for a start because that game would still be registered on your system.

  9. #9
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    Won't this stop people being able to sell their games through websites like eBay. Meaning therefore that if you want to sell it you will only be able to get the little amount that a store where you can trade it in will offer.
    I can read your thoughts.


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    wonder what the doom mongers will now say. Fully expect that Sony will also go this route
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Updator View Post
    Won't this stop people being able to sell their games through websites like eBay. Meaning therefore that if you want to sell it you will only be able to get the little amount that a store where you can trade it in will offer.
    A gamer walks into a retailer and hands over the game they wish to sell. This will only be possible at retailers who have agreed to Microsoft’s T&Cs and more importantly integrated Microsoft’s cloud-based Azure pre-owned system into its own.
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    This wouldn't effect me too much since I haven't traded/sold a game or bought a used game in a very long time. However, I can see why so many has problems with it.

    • Unable to play Xbox One games without a internet connection.

    • Can not sell games through craigslist, ebay, Amazon Marketplace or other private means.

    • Can not trade games among friends, family or on forums.

    • Can not pass old games that you no longer play to a friend or family member.

    • Limited to where you can sell/trade your games.

    • Kills renting games.


    Unconfirmed reports on ConsoleDeals.co.uk suggest that retail’s slice will be as little as ten per cent. That’s a significant cut from what it has become accustomed to from pre-owned sales and more in line with what they would receive from the sale of a new game – hence, the value of the pre-owned market to the retailer is effectively destroyed.

    These same unconfirmed reports also suggest that the activation cost for consumers buying or borrowing pre-owned software will be £35.
    UPDATE: Many readers are asking whether the £35 will be additional cost on top of the price of buying the game. No, we believe that the £35 figure – which is not our number, incidentally – would cover the entire transaction. If correct this would leave retail with a cut per sale of around £3.50.
    If the above is true, consumers will get next to nothing on their trade-ins; which would essentially kill the used game market for Xbox One games.
    Last edited by Ryunosuke; 05-24-2013 at 11:46.

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    This is crazy... absolutely crazy. Way way worse than I thought.

    So before purchasing the game (disc) has normal value. You install the game... transferring the value to the account and the disc is worth nothing. You have to go to a special store to valuise the disc, which removes the game on your account.

    1. I still don't fully understand it... You can give the disc to your son to play on his xBox but you can't give it to your friend? huh?! Does it track your IP or physical address now?

    2. Can you sell your user account? It's all going digital and therefore the value is not in the actual discs but in form of user accounts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_jim View Post
    This is crazy... absolutely crazy. Way way worse than I thought.

    So before purchasing the game (disc) has normal value. You install the game... transferring the value to the account and the disc is worth nothing. You have to go to a special store to valuise the disc, which removes the game on your account.

    1. I still don't fully understand it... You can give the disc to your son to play on his xBox but you can't give it to your friend? huh?! Does it track your IP or physical address now?

    2. Can you sell your user account? It's all going digital and therefore the value is not in the actual discs but in form of user accounts.
    what generally happens when you sell a game? Do you keep it? People seem to complain for the sake of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by acryllicaltair View Post
    what generally happens when you sell a game? Do you keep it? People seem to complain for the sake of it.
    People complain because this system has absolutely no benefits to the consumer and it only makes it worse for us...

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_jim View Post
    People complain because this system has absolutely no benefits to the consumer and it only makes it worse for us...
    you are complaining for the sake of it.

    Sony will likely go the same route seeing that they did admit that they will give Publishers the abuility to determine online DRM use, and they did as a publisher dodge a similar question. When it comes to selling a title, you currently lose it when you have sold it.

    Why would you for a moment imagine that you would retain the ability to play it even after you have sold it? The game is tied to an account until you sell it, cancelling it from your account simply stops one game being bought and being installed on a good number of consoles and maintains parity with what we have at current moment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by acryllicaltair View Post
    you are complaining for the sake of it.

    Sony will likely go the same route seeing that they did admit that they will give Publishers the abuility to determine online DRM use, and they did as a publisher dodge a similar question. When it comes to selling a title, you currently lose it when you have sold it.

    Why would you for a moment imagine that you would retain the ability to play it even after you have sold it? The game is tied to an account until you sell it, cancelling it from your account simply stops one game being bought and being installed on a good number of consoles and maintains parity with what we have at current moment.
    Why are you defending it? They are taking away your rights!

    I don't think anybody is arguing that once they have sold thier product they should be able to carry on using it. lol.

    It doesn't maintain parity with the current situation at all - When I buy a game, I buy the right to play it... Nothing has changed there. But now I don't have the ability to transfer this right to my friend (by selling him the game or giving it to him).

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_jim View Post
    Why are you defending it? They are taking away your rights!

    I don't think anybody is arguing that once they have sold thier product they should be able to carry on using it. lol.

    It doesn't maintain parity with the current situation at all - When I buy a game, I buy the right to play it... Nothing has changed there. But now I don't have the ability to transfer this right to my friend (by selling him the game or giving it to him).
    I am more concerned about having to connect my console online on a daily basis rather than me selling a game and continuing to enjoy its benefits which is something that has never happened in console history........that is unless you have a J tagged 360.

    If your selling a game, you ought to lose the playability factor, that isnt taking away my right, its common sense.

    I am more concerned about not being able to share the game with a friend, and i suspect that there will be people who play games on their friends accounts
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  20. #19
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    So I just read in a Eurogamer article that alongside the price you pay for the second hand game at retail (from which the retailer is going to get around 10% it's suggested!) there's a rumoured activation fee of £35 (uk)!

    Seriously. Sony only need to not do this and they've won! That's certainly where my money will be going rather than on a glorified TiVO that's been compromised for gaming performance so that it can bundle a crappy Kinect and for which gaming consumers are clearly a secondary consideration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparc View Post
    So I just read in a Eurogamer article that alongside the price you pay for the second hand game at retail (from which the retailer is going to get around 10% it's suggested!) there's a rumoured activation fee of £35 (uk)!

    Seriously. Sony only need to not do this and they've won! That's certainly where my money will be going rather than on a glorified TiVO that's been compromised for gaming performance so that it can bundle a crappy Kinect and for which gaming consumers are clearly a secondary consideration.
    really?

    MS has had a Video marketplace ever since the 360's second year, this isnt something that they have just started offering, even back then you could get TV episodes, and movies, then they added Netflix later on. Sony is also going target that market. So much gets said, so much off which is soo off.
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    I'm going to copy and paste for emphasis:
    I don't think anybody is arguing that once they have sold thier product they should be able to carry on using it. lol.
    acryllicaltair ,

    You mentioned twice in your post that you're concerned... You know that this is a lot worse for the consumer.

    In 20 years time the servers will be shut down and your xBox One and all its games will be useless and worthless. Can't say that about any other console, yet.

    In essence, everybody might as well sell their Xbox One games back to the special stores when they have finished with them because they will only ever lose value (in financial and playable terms).

    The economics of this is really interesting though. I don't know of any other examples where you can sell your digital media back to the distributor. I bet the devs and MS have properly screwed over the stores... it costs the former nothing and the stores take all the risk.

    @ Sparc. Are you sure? Why would you pay for a second hand game that doesn't work... and then an activation fee? it will probably be £35 total.

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    So.... question..

    How the $#@! does MS tell the difference between a pre-owned game and one that is borrowed from a friend?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefein View Post
    So.... question..

    How the $#@! does MS tell the difference between a pre-owned game and one that is borrowed from a friend?
    The first has been through one of their stores, the second hasn't... Is that what you mean?

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_jim View Post
    The first has been through one of their stores, the second hasn't... Is that what you mean?
    Seems like the likely scenario. Thing is, what's the difference in Azure between that and a black market sale?

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_jim View Post
    I'm going to copy and paste for emphasis:

    acryllicaltair ,

    You mentioned twice in your post that you're concerned... You know that this is a lot worse for the consumer.

    In 20 years time the servers will be shut down and your xBox One and all its games will be useless and worthless. Can't say that about any other console, yet.

    In essence, everybody might as well sell their Xbox One games back to the special stores when they have finished with them because they will only ever lose value (in financial and playable terms).

    The economics of this is really interesting though. I don't know of any other examples where you can sell your digital media back to the distributor. I bet the devs and MS have properly screwed over the stores... it costs the former nothing and the stores take all the risk.

    @ Sparc. Are you sure? Why would you pay for a second hand game that doesn't work... and then an activation fee? it will probably be £35 total.
    I am currently not playing games that were around 20 years ago, they wont play on this current gen consoles neither will they on the next gen consoles.......in fact, even current gen games wont play on next gen consoles. A rather mute point.

    Do i have the opinion that MS and Sony or the publishers need a cut in used game sales? Absolutely not, if they want a cut they can have their own stores, take a risk with their money, that is something i have said for years and my post history backs me.
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