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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    See, I'm not doubting them and that does provide confidence in the future of the game, but it's not for certain.

    That analogy would better suit an episodic game, where the experience is already at full quality, yet fractured. I can't really think of anything better though....except maybe life.
    Nothing is certain...Iceland has had a history littered with the most terrible misfortune and hardship, so who knows what could befall CCP...Fingrs crossed!

  2. #27
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    Really can't say I'm surprised about the score.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    It's a persistant world shooter, so it's not a game you just move on from. You're in a corporation that tries to take over planets in one shared universe. That's why it makes sense to have a sub-forum.



    First of all, you can have all the innovations you want, but the game has to play well. Other shooters on the market feel and play much better than DUST (at this point).

    Second, the innovations have hardly materialized yet. Yes, the groundwork has been set, but the EVE/DUST integration is still minor and the planetary conquest mode is pretty bare-bones at this point.
    Yes, of course that is natural that innovations need to play well but the overall industry still has this hypocritical approach to how it reviews games, claiming it wants innovation but rewarding re-hashes. An example is Halo 1, 2 and 3. What is fundamentally different about those games? Nothing. There are some new weapons and modes but it is essentially the same game with a new number and some cosmetic changes. 10s all around. Something, like DUST, that tries to show real innovation like PC-to-PS3 orbital strikes is a fundamental shift in how FPSs can be played but gets critically panned. Is it working 100% corrently right now? No, but I don`t think modern reviewers understand this is the year 2013 and not 1993, where if something is broken it can be fixed especially with CCP on the record saying how this is a long term project.

    My beef is not with the number. Numbers are always and will be subjective. The problem is with the rationalization behind the number. A lot of reviews don`t look at the overall picture from multiple sides which helps rationalize the critique.

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  5. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasombra View Post
    Something, like DUST, that tries to show real innovation like PC-to-PS3 orbital strikes is a fundamental shift in how FPSs can be played but gets critically panned.
    C'mon now. This game shouldn't be given high scores just for that feature. Again, the integration between two MMOs is indeed unique, but the actual benefits from the integration are too minor as of now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lasombra View Post
    I don`t think modern reviewers understand this is the year 2013 and not 1993, where if something is broken it can be fixed especially with CCP on the record saying how this is a long term project.
    So as long as a developer says they're going to fix and improve their game, it should get high scores?

  6. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    C'mon now. This game shouldn't be given high scores just for that feature. Again, the integration between two MMOs is indeed unique, but the actual benefits from the integration are too minor as of now.



    So as long as a developer says they're going to fix and improve their game, it should get high scores?
    As I said, the score itself is irrelevant. But to address that issue a score should not be arbitrarily lowered because of personal bias. To say 'controls are sluggish', and I'm paraphrasing, and to use that as a focal point is indicative of the problem with scores not reflecting reasoning. By his logic I can justify giving Halo 3 a 2/10 simply because I suck at aiming. To me, as the reviewer, I can't hit the broadside of the barn and thus it must be the games fault and thus I'll give the game a low score solely because I don't have the skill to complete. Is that fair and unbiased? Not in the slightest. Is it fair to the company? Hardly as what constructive feedback have they gained other than some guy just sucks at shooting.

    But with all due respect why shouldn't DUST get a 10/10 because of that one PC-PS3 bombing feature? Games have been given that, or close to it, for less so why not this? When has COD added anything new to the franchise in the past decade? Still, it is the gold standard. The current generation and the tech available should be taken into account. Games are so complex now compared to SNES era games that there are going to be bugs and hitches. It should be obvious that a company is going to fix it's online-only game's online problems like poor shooting mechanics. If this was 1993 then there would not be a fix and I can only score what it is now and that is all it will ever be. But in 2013 one patch can potentially fix every problem so that should be taken into account.

    This is, of course, all just philosophical because at the end of the day it is up to the reader to decide if the the review matches their beliefs or is total BS. It is up to the reader to actually read the review and not solely look at a subjective score. I'm sure there are lots of people somewhere on the internet who are criticizing me for my reviews and all the power to them. But the difference is in the philosophy and the trying to see a game from different gamer's points of views instead of treating every gamer as a casual gamer.

    Before it is taken out of context when I said 'Why can't DUST be a 10/10?' I was using it as an example. I wouldn't give the game a 10, nor would I give it a 5 though.

  7. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasombra View Post
    As I said, the score itself is irrelevant. But to address that issue a score should not be arbitrarily lowered because of personal bias. To say 'controls are sluggish', and I'm paraphrasing, and to use that as a focal point is indicative of the problem with scores not reflecting reasoning. By his logic I can justify giving Halo 3 a 2/10 simply because I suck at aiming. To me, as the reviewer, I can't hit the broadside of the barn and thus it must be the games fault and thus I'll give the game a low score solely because I don't have the skill to complete. Is that fair and unbiased? Not in the slightest. Is it fair to the company? Hardly as what constructive feedback have they gained other than some guy just sucks at shooting.
    Dude, are you saying reviewers can't take into account how well the game plays? That's the most important part of the game.

    And this isn't just a case of one guy being poor at shooting. He was talking about how the relative sensitivity between the turning and aiming is off, how the hit detection is poor, and how the framerate is slow, which results in sloppy dancing fights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lasombra View Post
    But with all due respect why shouldn't DUST get a 10/10 because of that one PC-PS3 bombing feature? Games have been given that, or close to it, for less so why not this? When has COD added anything new to the franchise in the past decade? Still, it is the gold standard.
    Adding something new is pointless if the game doesn't play well. That's what it comes down to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lasombra View Post
    The current generation and the tech available should be taken into account. Games are so complex now compared to SNES era games that there are going to be bugs and hitches. It should be obvious that a company is going to fix it's online-only game's online problems like poor shooting mechanics. If this was 1993 then there would not be a fix and I can only score what it is now and that is all it will ever be. But in 2013 one patch can potentially fix every problem so that should be taken into account.
    A patch/update can fix or improve anything. Therefore you can't knock the game for any negatives if that's what you're saying.



    To summarize, you just said that anything subjective can't be taken into account and anything objective will be patched.

  8. #32
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    Ixion, give up and stop posting negative reviews of the game. You're pretty much trying to tell parents that you think their newborn baby is ugly, when they think it's the most beautiful thing in the world. If you don't like the game, don't play it. I don't like COD therefore I don't play it, nor do I go on forums and bash it. There are going to be die hards for every game and genre, including DUST514, if you can't live with that, then you need to see a psychiatrist.

    PSN: Unaidedhippo5 - Dust514:Ye Be Gods - FFXIV:ARR: Yeshua Insignia

  9. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unaidedhipo5 View Post
    Ixion, give up and stop posting negative reviews of the game. You're pretty much trying to tell parents that you think their newborn baby is ugly, when they think it's the most beautiful thing in the world. If you don't like the game, don't play it. I don't like COD therefore I don't play it, nor do I go on forums and bash it. There are going to be die hards for every game and genre, including DUST514, if you can't live with that, then you need to see a psychiatrist.
    Is this a DUST forum or a DUST clubhouse?

  10. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unaidedhipo5 View Post
    Ixion, give up and stop posting negative reviews of the game. You're pretty much trying to tell parents that you think their newborn baby is ugly, when they think it's the most beautiful thing in the world. If you don't like the game, don't play it. I don't like COD therefore I don't play it, nor do I go on forums and bash it. There are going to be die hards for every game and genre, including DUST514, if you can't live with that, then you need to see a psychiatrist.
    Please play nice. Ixion and I are having a well-tempered debate. This isn't in the ghost syndicate section so he should be allowed to speak his mind. Without dissent then legitimacy is lost here.


    @Ixion: I did not say that at all. This entire time I've been saying that reviews need to be written to explain all sides. This is a game that will receive constant patches and updates and there is no mention of that unless it completely slipped my attention. Its a computer-esque MMO on a console. When a score of 5 or 10 or 7 is given it is final. There is no re-reviewing a year later when everything will be different for better or worse so even if the game does it better it'll always be that first score given. There is no long-term thought in the review despite this. A few sentences addressing these are problems circa now and in the future they can be fixed can legitimize the score immensely. If someone who knows zero about DUST reads the review they will easily think this is the game and that is all there is to it, that nothing will ever change or be added to it in the future.

    So again, the actual score is uncontroversial as long as there is something in the review that looks at the entire picture as a whole for a game rather than through an antiquated lens that is unsuited for something of this scope and ambition.

  11. #35
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    I like Dust, and I plan to play it for a long time, but I completely agree with Ixion. In my opinion you can't review a game for what it can potentially be, you have to review it for what it currently is. This is because the purpose of a review (in my opinion) is to answer the question "Should I play and invest time/money into this game right now?" And honestly, if a friend asked me that about Dust I would say no. I believe it will one day (and that's why I still play), but not right now.

    As far as the game improving over time, that is partly CCPs responsibility to communicate that in the future, and also part of gamers responsibility to realize it on their own. I think the majority of hardcore gamers (who Dust is aimed at) are smart enough realize that Dust has an MMO like development model and a couple years from now it could be vastly improved/changed.

    Also, as an FPS veteran, the controls are definitely a problem. Improving, but still a major issue that I would alone take 2-3 full points off of a review for.
    Last edited by Felix336; 06-01-2013 at 07:38.

  12. #36
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    double post.

  13. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    Link Anything you guys disagree with? It's hard to argue that the core gameplay isn't mediocre at this point.
    Ouch!!! This game sounds like a train wreck. lol
    Last edited by mistercrow; 06-01-2013 at 08:40.

  14. #38
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    I've given this game two tries and I can't play it for more than a few minutes.

  15. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasombra View Post
    Please play nice. Ixion and I are having a well-tempered debate. This isn't in the ghost syndicate section so he should be allowed to speak his mind. Without dissent then legitimacy is lost here.


    @Ixion: I did not say that at all. This entire time I've been saying that reviews need to be written to explain all sides. This is a game that will receive constant patches and updates and there is no mention of that unless it completely slipped my attention. Its a computer-esque MMO on a console. When a score of 5 or 10 or 7 is given it is final. There is no re-reviewing a year later when everything will be different for better or worse so even if the game does it better it'll always be that first score given. There is no long-term thought in the review despite this. A few sentences addressing these are problems circa now and in the future they can be fixed can legitimize the score immensely. If someone who knows zero about DUST reads the review they will easily think this is the game and that is all there is to it, that nothing will ever change or be added to it in the future.

    So again, the actual score is uncontroversial as long as there is something in the review that looks at the entire picture as a whole for a game rather than through an antiquated lens that is unsuited for something of this scope and ambition.
    I think we can agree that the typical review process should not apply to DUST. I understand that fans don't like how this game will all always have low scores even though the game will most likely improve. But I think as long as people are aware of the game's persistent, improving nature, then the score won't matter as much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Felix336 View Post
    And honestly, if a friend asked me that about Dust I would say no. I believe it will one day (and that's why I still play), but not right now.
    Agreed. I'm also interested in the development of this game and I play occasionally, but I wouldn't recommend it yet. At the very least I would recommend creating a character and start accumulating passive SP. Can't hurt.

  16. #40
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    I honestly couldn't even give Dust that high of a score.. Maybe a 3.. Some parts of the game are completely unplayable, like the PC battles. The lag is impossible to deal with. The hit detection is flawed, especially with grenades. What ever they did with the beta game, they should put it back, and just let the people play that. At least the beta does randomly shut off my PS3 every couple of hours.
    Professional assassination. It's the highest form of public service. - Chiun

  17. #41
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    Twice i have downloaded dust 514 now. However, i just cannot get past how bad it looks when its loaded up. Seriously, i'm no graphics $#@!, but man...it's fugly.

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2

  18. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by jj03 View Post
    Twice i have downloaded dust 514 now. However, i just cannot get past how bad it looks when its loaded up. Seriously, i'm no graphics $#@!, but man...it's fugly.
    When was the last time you tried it? There was a graphics update a few weeks ago.

    I'd say the graphics are adequate at this point. I'm more concerned about the framerate and just the feel and polish of the game.

  19. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    When was the last time you tried it? There was a graphics update a few weeks ago.

    I'd say the graphics are adequate at this point. I'm more concerned about the framerate and just the feel and polish of the game.
    About a month ago...don't get me wrong, graphics are a distant second to playability, but really, i found them totally shocking. Agree with framerate etc...all good having the game looking great but there's no $#@!in point if it plays like a turd and feels 'wrong'. I assume they are shooting for a 25 -30 fps ? Excuse me if i miss the mark, it will be only my third time trying this sorta game...all this dust. Lol.

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  20. #44
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    The reviewer says DUST has collision issues and cannot walk over objects that look like you should be able and keeps mentioning BF3 which in my mind has the worst collision of any game I have played recently. Carnot walk up a kerb or over rail track or some times up stairs.

  21. #45
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    I agree with most of the low score reviews it has got.

    For me, a game, especially an FPS, is only ever as strong as the core gameplay. If you have bad gunplay and everything else is great, you still have a bad game.

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    I also agree with this review, Beta did not make me want to try the retail version at all.


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    I'm enjoying the game but I can't really argue against the complaints about the shooting mechanics. It can be very frustrating at times.

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