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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    This thread makes my head hurt. So much misinformation.


    First, we can, or at least should all agree that overall the Japanese make the best cars. Always reliable, well put together. Performance is lacking across the spectrum but they are rock solid in reliability.

    American cars are the most inconsistent. There are some gems and there are some turds. Overall Ford makes really good cars, but their fit and finish is a bit lacking. They are extremely reliable mechanically, but you can count on it rattling and creaking after 100,000 miles. GM makes a few good cars, but most of them are garbage. GM interiors can only be describes as bad, and only liked by someone who hasn't sat in anything better. I wouldn't drive a Chrysler product if it was given to me for free.


    European cars are, on the whole, unsafe crap. The vast majority of them aren't even legal to import into the US because they cannot pass minimum safety standards. The Fiat 500 is a great example of this. It had a 5 star safety rating in the EU, and when Fiat tried to pass US NHTSA crash tests it failed. Not 5 stars, not 3 stars, not even 1 star, it failed. Fiat then had to modify and strengthen the chassis, adding 250lbs of weight to the car. After all of this added work and added weight it finally managed a measly 2 stars in the side impact test and 3 stars overall.

    European cars also have some of the worst reliability and some of the highest repair costs. Audi, VW, Mini, Range Rover, Jaguar, and even Mercedes routinely fall in the lowest 20% of car manufacturers when it comes to reliability. However, if you can afford one, Porsche is outstanding.



    And for the record, the last 3 cars I either sold or traded in were still running fine with over 250,000 miles on them. Two were American, one was Japanese. The car I currently drive is American because neither Japan nor Europe offers anything like it.

    Not sure if it's deliberate, or contrived, but you know that USNCAP and EU NCAP test in completely different ways. Do you think that US cars that get 5 stars in the US NCAP get 5 stars in the EU NCAP test? The US testing focuses on full frontal impact testing, two types of side impact, rollover resistance, and even crash avoidance technologies (e.g. stability control, traction control). The EU tests focus on human protection during a crash - adult protection (driver and passenger), child protection, pedestrian protection and, like the US, crash avoidance technologies. It's broken down into full frontal, side impact (but not the pole impact test that the US has), sled tests (whiplash injuries), plus others.

    At the end of the day, both tests are useful, the numbers are meaningful ONLY when comparing to another vehicle's rating from the same test. They are meaningless when comparing to each other.

    In terms of reliability of vehicles. Please point to the data you from where you get that information. There are good brands in the EU and of course, less good brands. So I think that's a subjective statement on your behalf.

    Nice car you've got there. You're right though, European and Japanese cars don't do anything like it. Cars in Japan and Europe need to be able to corner. Just ask Jeremy Clarkson.

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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    I didn't know Jaguar is European. O.O
    Shocked and appalled.
    Its British but Indian owned so to speak

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    Shocked and appalled.
    Its British but Indian owned so to speak
    Like Vindaloo?

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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparc View Post
    Like Vindaloo?
    Now all I can think of is Lister from Red Dwarf. lol
    ~Corporate Media Propaganda - Welcome to your Daily Matrix~

    .

  5. #30
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    I prefer Japanese cars as they're easier to work on. On American cars I have to basically remove the tranny to change the windshield wiper fluid... at least that's what it feels like sometimes.

    German cars have the best crash tests on the planet, however. They use real people.
    "The biggest adversary in our life is ourselves. We are what we are, in a sense, because of the dominating thoughts we allow to gather in our head. All concepts of self-improvement, all actions and paths we take, relate solely to our abstract image of ourselves. Life is limited only by how we really see ourselves and feel about our being. A great deal of pure self-knowledge and inner understanding allows us to lay an all-important foundation for the structure of our life from which we can perceive and take the right avenues.”

  6. #31
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    did you know we Canadians have a car company that's own by Canadians and built in Canada but its not allowed to be sold in Canada lolz

    http://outofgreen.ca/news/comments/a..._in_canada_eh/



  7. #32
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    Japanese cars are the foundation. Tell your father that American cars are trash and let them die a horrible death. Honda Accords are the best thing smoking. Especially the 90s editions! My first car, sadly, was a '97 Ford Contour. Blew up on me a year after I got it. Wasn't meant to last. You're on the right side of the wheel. Grab your Japanese model.


    $Greatness$ Awaits™


  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by $Greatness$ View Post
    Japanese cars are the foundation. Tell your father that American cars are trash and let them die a horrible death. Honda Accords are the best thing smoking. Especially the 90s editions! My first car, sadly, was a '97 Ford Contour. Blew up on me a year after I got it. Wasn't meant to last. You're on the right side of the wheel. Grab your Japanese model.
    Ewww! 90's Honda Accords are ugly, early 2000s Ford Tarus ugly. Ewww, $Greatness$ likes driving hideous cars.

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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    Ewww! 90's Honda Accords are ugly, early 2000s Ford Tarus ugly. Ewww, $Greatness$ likes driving hideous cars.
    I don't see the appeal either.
    "The biggest adversary in our life is ourselves. We are what we are, in a sense, because of the dominating thoughts we allow to gather in our head. All concepts of self-improvement, all actions and paths we take, relate solely to our abstract image of ourselves. Life is limited only by how we really see ourselves and feel about our being. A great deal of pure self-knowledge and inner understanding allows us to lay an all-important foundation for the structure of our life from which we can perceive and take the right avenues.”

  10. #35
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    First off ill say that im going with American cars simply for the fact that i cant tell a honda from a nissan. That being said, i cant tell any car apart if it was made after 1995.

    I dont like new cars period. they are impossible to work on, theres so much $#@! packed into them, and everyone always puts on tacky pep-boys chrome crap on cars nowadays.

    I have about 8 cars. most of them are projects.

    1968 chevelle
    1966 caprice 2 door hard top
    1955 chevy 210 post coupe
    1957 chevy bel air
    1958 chevy biscayne
    1941 Willys pick up truck
    1987 caprice broughms 4 door
    1987 caprice Landau 2 door sports coupe.

    The only one thats fully restored is the 55 chevy, but its been about 15 years since it was painted and it could stand to be re-painted.

    Now heres my point. Theres dozens of parts on all of those chevy's from all of those different years that are interchangeable. Im sure its the same with many cars all over the world of course. All of the motors are V8's except for the 58, which is a straight 6, and the 55 which has a 454 big block. the rest of them are small block v8's. the two 87 caprices are vortec V8's so those are interchangeable. every part on the other cars, can be swapped with each other. thats a period of almost 30 years where you can re-use engine parts.

    Now let me talk about my little project for one second. My main car is the 87 2Door Coupe. It's my first custom build. I took a center console from an 87 camaro and put it in the car. dropped the column shifter and installed a B&M Shifter designed for the camaro console. About an hour ago i finally mounted the E-brake. All thats left is to connect it beneath the car and remove the original e-brake pedal. In order to do the exhaust the way i wanted i had to remove the cars computer system and all of the pollution controls. The car now has no computer. Everything works. The car runs better than ever, and is a lot more powerful than it was previously because its not being bogged down with all sorts of extra pollution crap. And if something goes wrong with it, i can see every part under the hood and get to everything without having to take anything off except for the air filter housing.

    Now, granted i may seem biased, which in large part i probably am. My sister in law has had the same honda accord for the last 7 years, i think its a 2001 or 2002 or soemthing. Shes a good driver, and my brother does regular preventative maintainance on the car. Its an automatic transmission and she drives like an old lady. shes had the transmission replaced 5 times in 7 years. the motor only has about 123,000 miles on it. My 66 Caprice has 250K miles on it and both the motor and transmission are original from the factory. Granted, ive not been able to determine if the trans was rebuilt at any point, but it is the original motor which makes me wonder what the hell is wrong with japanese transmissions for it to have crapped out so many times.


    http://www.cardomain.com/id/donttreadonme/

    2 of my cars. havent updated it in a looong time.
    Last edited by Ariakace; 06-27-2013 at 04:00. Reason: added link to 2 of my cars.


    Tacos Rule!

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeanutButterMunky View Post
    I don't see the appeal either.
    Yup. The good thing is the 2000s Honda Accords and Civics look so much better.

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    As someone who knows quite a bit about cars and works on them often I'd choose American, at least for practicality. All the American, German and Japanese cars are generally reliable; some specific models might not be though. European cars are usually the most difficult and most expensive to repair though. Japanese in the past had better gas mileage, but with the cost of weaker engines. American cars have the best balance of everything.

    It all depends on the model though, I drive an Audi S4 but I do all my own work the extra cost is minimal besides parts.

  13. #38
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    I like different cars from different manufacturers for different reasons.

    To give a blanketed statement like "American cars are better then *" or "Japanese cars are better then *" or even "European cars are better then *" is pure ignorance.

    Truth is Japanese, Korean, American European etc manufacturers all make cars that are better and worse then competing manufacturers.
    AKA...
    They all make amazing cars, $#@! cars and everything in between.

    Now if you have 2 or more specific cars then you can fairly compare them, but to just make a general statement saying one countries cars are better then anothers is just personal preference.
    Last edited by faaeng; 07-19-2013 at 09:42.
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  14. #39
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    European & Japanese cars can go round corners pretty well, American Cars look great! Or should that be used to look great? Seems you guys are just compying the European cars these days which is a shame.

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    Quote Originally Posted by faaeng View Post
    I like different cars from different manufacturers for different reasons.

    To give a blanketed statement like "American cars are better then *" or "Japanese cars are better then *" or even "European cars are better then *" is pure ignorance.

    Truth is Japanese, Korean, American European etc manufacturers all make cars that are better and worse then competing manufacturers.
    AKA...
    They all make amazing cars, $#@! cars and everything in between.

    Now if you have 2 or more specific cars then you can fairly compare them, but to just make a general statement saying one countries cars are better then anothers is just personal preference.
    I disagree with the bold part. Yes some manufacturers tend to make better types of cars than others, but when you look at the overall quality of all models, then you do get separation.

    An example would be Ford makes better pick up trucks and Toyota makes better sedans. Both of them are good at certain things, but you add in Toyota pick ups and Ford sedans and average them, then you get separation.

    That example may not be true, it's just an example.

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  16. #41
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    midsize luxury line automakers better watch out for the 2014 cts! the car is a stunner and the performance line (cts-v) will be a beast!

    Cadillac the only unique automaker left, everybody else is copying each other down to the taillights being indistinguishable



    Damn auto correct
    Last edited by YoungMullah88; 07-22-2013 at 04:02.

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  18. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    I disagree with the bold part. Yes some manufacturers tend to make better types of cars than others, but when you look at the overall quality of all models, then you do get separation.

    An example would be Ford makes better pick up trucks and Toyota makes better sedans. Both of them are good at certain things, but you add in Toyota pick ups and Ford sedans and average them, then you get separation.

    That example may not be true, it's just an example.
    Agreed. Some manufacturers are better at making certain types of vehicles then others but doesn't mean all of them are better. That's also alot more specific then 'this country makes better cars then this country" =P

    Using your example also not stating if try or false. Just an example.

    Just because Ford makes better trucks then Toyota and Toyota makes better sedans does not mean all Fords trucks are better then all Toyotas or all Toyota sedans are better then all Fords.

    IMHO its just not a fair comparison. You need 2 or more specific trucks/sedans to be comparing between Like a Ford something vs a Toyota something. Hell, Hyundai used to be the laughing stock of auto industry for many car enthusiasts, but I'll be a damned liar if said I don't absolutely love the new Genesis Coupe.
    Last edited by faaeng; 07-19-2013 at 19:41.
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  19. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by faaeng View Post
    Agreed. Some manufacturers are better at making certain types of vehicles then others but doesn't mean all of them are better. That's also alot more specific then 'this country makes better cars then this country" =P

    Using your example also not stating if try or false. Just an example.

    Just because Ford makes better trucks then Toyota and Toyota makes better sedans does not mean all Fords trucks are better then all Toyotas or all Toyota sedans are better then all Fords.

    IMHO its just not a fair comparison. You need 2 or more specific trucks/sedans to be comparing between Like a Ford something vs a Toyota something. Hell, Hyundai used to be the laughing stock of auto industry for many car enthusiasts, but I'll be a damned liar if said I don't absolutely love the new Genesis Coupe.
    We're talking general here, not specific.

    When we say Japanese cars are better than American cars, it's not saying every single Japanese car beats all the American cars or vice versa. It's just being general.

    Edit: I don't see anything wrong with being general, especially if you are shopping for cars and shopping for a good or reliable brand. Honda is considered a reliable and durable brand, but that doesn't mean all Honda vehicles are reliable and can take a hit and keep on ticking. It simply means most Honda cars are like that.

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  20. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    We're talking general here, not specific.

    When we say Japanese cars are better than American cars, it's not saying every single Japanese car beats all the American cars or vice versa. It's just being general.

    Edit: I don't see anything wrong with being general, especially if you are shopping for cars and shopping for a good or reliable brand. Honda is considered a reliable and durable brand, but that doesn't mean all Honda vehicles are reliable and can take a hit and keep on ticking. It simply means most Honda cars are like that.

    I understand that, but when your lookin/saving for a car like in the case of the OP, comparing specific cars or even specific car manufacturers is far more worthwhile then the general statement that this countries cars are better then that countries cars which is more a personal preference comparison. Ya know?

    But speaking in general, I don't prefer one over another. Thats why car shopping without any semblance of what your looking for can be so time consuming. Especially when looking at used cars. Just too many variables. Now for Classics? American omho lol
    Last edited by faaeng; 07-21-2013 at 19:54.
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  21. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparc View Post
    Not sure if it's deliberate, or contrived, but you know that USNCAP and EU NCAP test in completely different ways. Do you think that US cars that get 5 stars in the US NCAP get 5 stars in the EU NCAP test? The US testing focuses on full frontal impact testing, two types of side impact, rollover resistance, and even crash avoidance technologies (e.g. stability control, traction control). The EU tests focus on human protection during a crash - adult protection (driver and passenger), child protection, pedestrian protection and, like the US, crash avoidance technologies. It's broken down into full frontal, side impact (but not the pole impact test that the US has), sled tests (whiplash injuries), plus others.
    You say that like US tests are not focusing on human protection. That's ALL they care about. The car can be totalled, but if the occupants are unaffected then it's a 5 star safety rating in the US.

    The problem specifically is that the EU does not test for the most common type of injury accident of all, which is the offset frontal collision, and that's where most European cars fail US safety tests. And it's not just getting a lower score, they fail so badly that they cannot be driven on US roads.


    In terms of reliability of vehicles. Please point to the data you from where you get that information. There are good brands in the EU and of course, less good brands. So I think that's a subjective statement on your behalf.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...ty-survey.html
    http://autos.in.msn.com/gallery/the-...ble-car-brands
    http://autos.jdpower.com/ratings/dependability.htm

    European cars are consistently at the bottom.

    Nice car you've got there. You're right though, European and Japanese cars don't do anything like it. Cars in Japan and Europe need to be able to corner. Just ask Jeremy Clarkson.
    Yeah, well, don't believe everything you see on the BBC. They have a tendency to broadcast propaganda.....



    $32,000 Mustang GT vs. $57,000 BMW M3 (Top Gear's favorite sports coupe)

    The driver says the BMW has less roll in the corners and better side to side transitions, but the Mustang has better balance, is less likely to understeer, and has a lot more torque on corner exit. His main complaint with the Mustang handling is the shocks which can easily be upgraded for cheap.

    Actual difference on a road course in the hands of a professional driver....... 0.1 seconds per lap.


    However, that's just against an entry level Mustang GT. Put the BMW against the 302 Boss and the BMW will lose outright. The Boss has a MUCH better suspension, much better Brembo brakes, about 200lbs less weight, and 35 more horsepower. How many European cars can outrun and outhandle a BMW M3? How many of them are affordable enough for a normal person to buy?
    Last edited by Completely Average; 07-21-2013 at 20:59.

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    BBC doesn't broadcast propaganda.
    The old Top gear 20 years ago was more a review type show offering real consumer advices. Top Gear now is more an entertainment show than anything. How useful is a car that turns into a hover craft or a car that turns into a shuttle.
    Last edited by keefy; 07-21-2013 at 23:38.

  23. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    BBC doesn't broadcast propaganda.
    The old Top gear 20 years ago was more a review type show offering real consumer advices. Top Gear now is more an entertainment show than anything. How useful is a car that turns into a hover craft or a car that turns into a shuttle.
    What do you mean? Knowing how many caravans a car can jump cleanly is must know information.
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  24. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    BBC doesn't broadcast propaganda.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_BBC

    Yeah, totally unbiased and totally fair in all of their reporting, right?


    It's government funded broadcasting, they are going to broadcast what the government wants them to. The political slant on their reporting and documentaries is unmistakable. David Attenborough's Frozen Planet was such obvious propaganda that in the US as well as several other countries the final episode was never shown. It was full of unfounded claims and fearmongering presented under the guise of a BBC documentary.

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    I never buy import cars Japanese cars are built like crap

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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_BBC

    Yeah, totally unbiased and totally fair in all of their reporting, right?


    It's government funded broadcasting, they are going to broadcast what the government wants them to. The political slant on their reporting and documentaries is unmistakable. David Attenborough's Frozen Planet was such obvious propaganda that in the US as well as several other countries the final episode was never shown. It was full of unfounded claims and fearmongering presented under the guise of a BBC documentary.
    BBC is not funded by the government its funded by the people that pay their TV licenses.

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